All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

[Domina Nostra]

So you're saying it's a Marvelesque rollercoaster that may have forever ruined Star Wars?!

Yuppp!

I completely agree.

Am I the only Star Wars fan that thinks that all of the movies are cheesy/cliche?

I don't see how this movie is any worse/better than previous movies. All the movies (except for maybe the prequels) are more or less the same thing... Balance of good/bad, gunslinger/leader, impulsive/wisdom...etc.

If anything, one of my biggest complaints about the whole series is the reincarnation of the same story over and over again... First, Luke, then Anikan, now Rey...

As much as I love these movies (and still do) to judge one better than the other is pretty silly when they're all silly movies.

I disagree. We see this all the time.

Think of it this way. The first Matrix movie was somewhay ridiculous and completely implausible, but it worked within the boundaries that they created for the story. They pulled it off somehow. The second and third were written in the same universe, but they didn't pull it off for all kinds of reasons. You might say that the criticisms don't make sense--if you like the first one despite its craziness, you have no right to criticize the others based on similar craziness--but the vast majority of people had the same reaction for the same reasons.

This one feels like it was written by a snob who concluded from all the problems with the old ones that the problems don't matter (we're making a sci fi serial after all!) and you can just ignore them and plow ahead. He was wrong.

 

[gkIrish]

Pretty clear from the comments that there is nothing this movie could have done that would have offended some of you.

It's hard to be original in cinema, I get it. But when you have a vast universe of original material and you come up with that movie, many people didn't do their job.

I really wish they had just put the Thrawn trilogy on the big screen. Would have been a huge hit.

 

[IrishLion]

Pretty clear from the comments that there is nothing this movie could have done that would have offended some of you.

It's hard to be original in cinema, I get it. But when you have a vast universe of original material and you come up with that movie, many people didn't do their job.

I really wish they had just put the Thrawn trilogy on the big screen. Would have been a huge hit.

I love Star Wars more than any movie franchise, but the only thing that has ever legitimately made me upset about any of the Star Wars films was Jar Jar Binks. Even as a young child, I knew enough to know how terrible Jar Jar was. Also, maybe the CGI band in Jabba's palace.

I just don't find the value in being upset about new Star Wars content. There were some things I wish would have gone differently, and some things definitely could have been condensed into a tighter (or different) plot, but I didn't think any of it was so bad that it's worth being mad online about.

The one thing that I disliked about TLJ the most, thinking back on it, was Lady Purple Hair not divulging her plan... everyone knew about it but Poe and his tiny crew of mutineers? Why not just tell him? Then he could have called Finn and Rose back to the ship without needing the codebreaker, and they still could have sent Finn and Rose to the stables to intro the wildlife and the downtrodden kids as a means of getting them back to their shuttle.

One thing I liked so much more after thinking on it was Finn's line:

PHASMA: You're scum.
FINN: Rebel scum.

So cheesy, but such a good callback IMO, and a good moment for Finn's character development.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I love Star Wars more than any movie franchise, but the only thing that has ever legitimately made me upset about any of the Star Wars films was Jar Jar Binks. Even as a young child, I knew enough to know how terrible Jar Jar was. Also, maybe the CGI band in Jabba's palace.

I just don't find the value in being upset about new Star Wars content. There were some things I wish would have gone differently, and some things definitely could have been condensed into a tighter (or different) plot, but I didn't think any of it was so bad that it's worth being mad online about.

The one thing that I disliked about TLJ the most, thinking back on it, was Lady Purple Hair not divulging her plan... everyone knew about it but Poe and his tiny crew of mutineers? Why not just tell him? Then he could have called Finn and Rose back to the ship without needing the codebreaker, and they still could have sent Finn and Rose to the stables to intro the wildlife and the downtrodden kids as a means of getting them back to their shuttle.

One thing I liked so much more after thinking on it was Finn's line:

PHASMA: You're scum.
FINN: Rebel scum.

So cheesy, but such a good callback IMO, and a good moment for Finn's character development.

Heck even Benicio del Toro knew, and they just picked him up from a prison

 

[IrishLion]

Another thing I was thinking about that I'd like to hear your guys' opinions on:

Was Phasma intentionally a parallel to Boba Fett, or was that just a coincidence based on her over-hype and under-delivery?

Cool bad guy; cool armor; presented as an "enforcer"; doesn't actually do much of anything noteworthy; dies far too easily

Boba Fett's greatest accomplishment was delivering Han Solo's already-frozen body to Jabba. Vader and the Empire did all of the hard work.

Phasma's greatest accomplishment was capturing Finn and Rose, who were already in dire straits. Benicio did all of the hard work.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Another thing I was thinking about that I'd like to hear your guys' opinions on:

Was Phasma intentionally a parallel to Boba Fett, or was that just a coincidence based on her over-hype and under-delivery?

Cool bad guy; cool armor; presented as an "enforcer"; doesn't actually do much of anything noteworthy; dies far too easily

Boba Fett's greatest accomplishment was delivering Han Solo's already-frozen body to Jabba. Vader and the Empire did all of the hard work.

Phasma's greatest accomplishment was capturing Finn and Rose, who were already in dire straits. Benicio did all of the hard work.

This is how I took it

 

[connor_in]

Biggest surprise of the whole film to me...

Snoke is Einhorn / Einhorn is Snoke

 

[Domina Nostra]

Nothing about it upset me, I laughed about it with a friend for an hour. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. The amount of things that just completely sabatoge the plot of internal coherence was amazing.

All the self-reflective monologues about "hope" and "sparking a rebellion" and "we are our own heroes," was annoying, but expected in this climate.

They also definitly took the "women don't need men on any level at all" theme of most recent movies to the HNL, but again, that was expected.

What was unexpected was the incoherence (dumb) plot lines and the completely unsatisfying way they tied up some of the major mysteries, leaving you with a Ray vs Kyle conflict that I find completely un-compelling.

 

[gkIrish]

Btw, why all of a sudden are lightsabers capable of being turned on without being held? What ever stopped a Jedi from turning off his opponents saber in the past mid fight? I understand that it makes sense that a Jedi could use telekinesis to push a button but to introduce this concept now cheapens all the past duels to me.

 

[IrishLion]

Btw, why all of a sudden are lightsabers capable of being turned on without being held? What ever stopped a Jedi from turning off his opponents saber in the past mid fight? I understand that it makes sense that a Jedi could use telekinesis to push a button but to introduce this concept now cheapens all the past duels to me.

That's like the whole "why don't they just turn their lightsaber off when their opponent swings at them, and then turn it on again when their opponent is off balance?"

Just because.

 

[gkIrish]

That's like the whole "why don't they just turn their lightsaber off when their opponent swings at them, and then turn it on again when their opponent is off balance?"

Just because.

Yeah that's because they are supposed to just be a cooler version of a sword. Essentially all the same rules that apply to swords would apply to lightsabers. So when they kill off a major villain by breaking the rules we have come to understand about lightsabers I have a problem with it because it makes me question why that wouldn't happen in all previous fights. If they never killed Snoke that way I would just continue to assume that you had to be holding a saber to turn it on and we don't have a problem.

 

[connor_in]

Yeah that's because they are supposed to just be a cooler version of a sword. Essentially all the same rules that apply to swords would apply to lightsabers. So when they kill off a major villain by breaking the rules we have come to understand about lightsabers I have a problem with it because it makes me question why that wouldn't happen in all previous fights. If they never killed Snoke that way I would just continue to assume that you had to be holding a saber to turn it on and we don't have a problem.

Fer cryin' out loud people... Ya never heard of upgrades? Heck Apple and Android introduce new little twists all the time. Its been a generation. They can add twaeks like this and tint control to the light sabers... Geez!

 

[EvilleIrish]

Yeah that's because they are supposed to just be a cooler version of a sword. Essentially all the same rules that apply to swords would apply to lightsabers. So when they kill off a major villain by breaking the rules we have come to understand about lightsabers I have a problem with it because it makes me question why that wouldn't happen in all previous fights. If they never killed Snoke that way I would just continue to assume that you had to be holding a saber to turn it on and we don't have a problem.

Any chance that Snoke was Darth Plagueis and isn't actually gone? Just an average fan who enjoys reading these discussions.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Yeah that's because they are supposed to just be a cooler version of a sword. Essentially all the same rules that apply to swords would apply to lightsabers. So when they kill off a major villain by breaking the rules we have come to understand about lightsabers I have a problem with it because it makes me question why that wouldn't happen in all previous fights. If they never killed Snoke that way I would just continue to assume that you had to be holding a saber to turn it on and we don't have a problem.

I found some intriguing answers here

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/69448/why-doesnt-someone-try-to-turn-on-off-enemys-lightsaber-using-the-force

 

[Cackalacky]

I love Star Wars more than any movie franchise, but the only thing that has ever legitimately made me upset about any of the Star Wars films was Jar Jar Binks. Even as a young child, I knew enough to know how terrible Jar Jar was. Also, maybe the CGI band in Jabba's palace.

I just don't find the value in being upset about new Star Wars content. There were some things I wish would have gone differently, and some things definitely could have been condensed into a tighter (or different) plot, but I didn't think any of it was so bad that it's worth being mad online about.

The one thing that I disliked about TLJ the most, thinking back on it, was Lady Purple Hair not divulging her plan... everyone knew about it but Poe and his tiny crew of mutineers? Why not just tell him? Then he could have called Finn and Rose back to the ship without needing the codebreaker, and they still could have sent Finn and Rose to the stables to intro the wildlife and the downtrodden kids as a means of getting them back to their shuttle.

One thing I liked so much more after thinking on it was Finn's line:

PHASMA: You're scum.
FINN: Rebel scum.

So cheesy, but such a good callback IMO, and a good moment for Finn's character development.

As to the bolded....yes! Its easy to sit back and pick holes and prod and dissect after the fact... not so easy to bring this all together in the first place as part of the creative process. Again, I think if people are trying to extract significant meaning or hold minimal suspension of disbelief in order to make sense of it then they are asking to be let down. These movies are not Citizen Kane or Dark Knight level mental movies. I think expectations for men ages 27-55 are far too high.

For example... the biggest plot hole in ANH under moderate inspection required an entire movie to correct (Rogue One). How many of you as children were pissed that ANH never explained how such a stupid weakness could be exploited or even located on a machine of that size.... and it went straight from the surface to the center of the station...straight down, didnt deviate or turn but maintained a pristine straight course to allow for proton torpedos to travel the entire radius of the station..... lol. That is the stupidest most unrealistic thing. My point is if you choose to engage in disbelief, none of the movies should bring any joy to you or make any sense... much like Han light speeding onto Star Killer. Many people are like " impossible! How fucking stupid.. Lazy...
bad writing". Instead of thinking.... man Han must be an amazing pilot to do that? Man that was awesome" or the like. My kid didnt ask how he did it, he only thought it was soooo cool that he DID do it. Just like Luke blowing up the Death Star. Just like any number of other amazing feats of heroism littered throughout the movies.

It seems to me that people our age are very savy (for the most part) and are so knowledgeable about movies and about stories, about directing, and we all harbor so many informed and uniformed opinions that we cant even sit and enjoy something like this.

I dont htink its lazy so much as it is simple and uncomplicated.

 

[NDohio]

As to the bolded....yes! Its easy to sit back and pick holes and prod and dissect after the fact... not so easy to bring this all together in the first place as part of the creative process. Again, I think if people are trying to extract significant meaning or hold minimal suspension of disbelief in order to make sense of it then they are asking to be let down. These movies are not Citizen Kane or Dark Knight level mental movies. I think expectations for men ages 27-55 are far too high.

For example... the biggest plot hole in ANH under moderate inspection required an entire movie to correct (Rogue One). How many of you as children were pissed that ANH never explained how such a stupid weakness could be exploited or even located on a machine of that size.... and it went straight from the surface to the center of the station...straight down, didnt deviate or turn but maintained a pristine straight course to allow for proton torpedos to travel the entire radius of the station..... lol. That is the stupidest most unrealistic thing. My point is if you choose to engage in disbelief, none of the movies should bring any joy to you or make any sense... much like Han light speeding onto Star Killer. Many people are like " impossible! How fucking stupid.. Lazy...
bad writing". Instead of thinking.... man Han must be an amazing pilot to do that? Man that was awesome" or the like. My kid didnt ask how he did it, he only thought it was soooo cool that he DID do it. Just like Luke blowing up the Death Star. Just like any number of other amazing feats of heroism littered throughout the movies.

It seems to me that people our age are very savy (for the most part) and are so knowledgeable about movies and about stories, about directing, and we all harbor so many informed and uniformed opinions that we cant even sit and enjoy something like this.

I dont htink its lazy so much as it is simple and uncomplicated.

This

 

[IrishLion]

I found some intriguing answers here

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/69448/why-doesnt-someone-try-to-turn-on-off-enemys-lightsaber-using-the-force

Interesting.

Basically, someone powerful with the force can activate/deactivate a lightsaber remotely. But it takes someone of great power to do so.

Also, it appears that Jedi are trained to protect themselves and their weapons during battles to avoid that very occurrence. That would explain why Snoke was taken by surprise and died like a bitch... he wasn't offering any defense of the lightsaber that sat next to him.

 

[gkIrish]

Any chance that Snoke was Darth Plagueis and isn't actually gone? Just an average fan who enjoys reading these discussions.

I saw that theory. It's possible he was Plagueis but it seems like he is actually dead.

 

[wizards8507]

I say again, watch it twice. It improves upon subsequent viewings more than any other movie I've ever seen.

And Luke milking that creature was brilliant. It was a character moment used to illustrate that he's not the mighty Luke of legend anymore.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

[Rack Em]

I say again, watch it twice. It improves upon subsequent viewings more than any other movie I've ever seen.

And Luke milking that creature was brilliant. It was a character moment used to illustrate that he's not the mighty Luke of legend anymore.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

No it was fucking weird.

 

[EvilleIrish]

I saw that theory. It's possible he was Plagueis but it seems like he is actually dead.

That was my biggest issue with the movie...I was really interested in Snoke and he's just gone with no story behind him?

 

[gkIrish]

I found some intriguing answers here

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/69448/why-doesnt-someone-try-to-turn-on-off-enemys-lightsaber-using-the-force

I assumed all that but it doesn't really explain why Snoke would be completely oblivious to someone trying to use the Force on him I guess after his huge display of power.

 

[gkIrish]

I say again, watch it twice. It improves upon subsequent viewings more than any other movie I've ever seen.

And Luke milking that creature was brilliant. It was a character moment used to illustrate that he's not the mighty Luke of legend anymore.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

Oh God stop

 

[IrishLion]

That was my biggest issue with the movie...I was really interested in Snoke and he's just gone with no story behind him?

Like Palpatine in the original trilogy, I bet he gets a book series or a future film will fill us in.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I assumed all that but it doesn't really explain why Snoke would be completely oblivious to someone trying to use the Force on him I guess after his huge display of power.

Pride is my guess. I mean, the dude is dressed like he's at a 70s coke party

I say again, watch it twice. It improves upon subsequent viewings more than any other movie I've ever seen.

And Luke milking that creature was brilliant. It was a character moment used to illustrate that he's not the mighty Luke of legend anymore.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

Troll

 

[irishnd31]

As to the bolded....yes! Its easy to sit back and pick holes and prod and dissect after the fact... not so easy to bring this all together in the first place as part of the creative process. Again, I think if people are trying to extract significant meaning or hold minimal suspension of disbelief in order to make sense of it then they are asking to be let down. These movies are not Citizen Kane or Dark Knight level mental movies. I think expectations for men ages 27-55 are far too high.

For example... the biggest plot hole in ANH under moderate inspection required an entire movie to correct (Rogue One). How many of you as children were pissed that ANH never explained how such a stupid weakness could be exploited or even located on a machine of that size.... and it went straight from the surface to the center of the station...straight down, didnt deviate or turn but maintained a pristine straight course to allow for proton torpedos to travel the entire radius of the station..... lol. That is the stupidest most unrealistic thing. My point is if you choose to engage in disbelief, none of the movies should bring any joy to you or make any sense... much like Han light speeding onto Star Killer. Many people are like " impossible! How fucking stupid.. Lazy...
bad writing". Instead of thinking.... man Han must be an amazing pilot to do that? Man that was awesome" or the like. My kid didnt ask how he did it, he only thought it was soooo cool that he DID do it. Just like Luke blowing up the Death Star. Just like any number of other amazing feats of heroism littered throughout the movies.

It seems to me that people our age are very savy (for the most part) and are so knowledgeable about movies and about stories, about directing, and we all harbor so many informed and uniformed opinions that we cant even sit and enjoy something like this.

I dont htink its lazy so much as it is simple and uncomplicated.

Dilly dilly. Well thought out post good sir. Agree.

 

[wizards8507]

You all have clearly never had a wife who breastfeeds. That scene didn't strike me as odd at all. I still have a number of problems with the movie but that wasn't one of them.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

[EvilleIrish]

Like Palpatine in the original trilogy, I bet he gets a book series or a future film will fill us in.

Probably so. It's just my fear that the next film has essentially two characters who matter at all...Kylo Ren and Rey. Not sure where they go from here.

 

[gkIrish]

As to the bolded....yes! Its easy to sit back and pick holes and prod and dissect after the fact... not so easy to bring this all together in the first place as part of the creative process. Again, I think if people are trying to extract significant meaning or hold minimal suspension of disbelief in order to make sense of it then they are asking to be let down. These movies are not Citizen Kane or Dark Knight level mental movies. I think expectations for men ages 27-55 are far too high.

For example... the biggest plot hole in ANH under moderate inspection required an entire movie to correct (Rogue One). How many of you as children were pissed that ANH never explained how such a stupid weakness could be exploited or even located on a machine of that size.... and it went straight from the surface to the center of the station...straight down, didnt deviate or turn but maintained a pristine straight course to allow for proton torpedos to travel the entire radius of the station..... lol. That is the stupidest most unrealistic thing. My point is if you choose to engage in disbelief, none of the movies should bring any joy to you or make any sense... much like Han light speeding onto Star Killer. Many people are like " impossible! How fucking stupid.. Lazy...
bad writing". Instead of thinking.... man Han must be an amazing pilot to do that? Man that was awesome" or the like. My kid didnt ask how he did it, he only thought it was soooo cool that he DID do it. Just like Luke blowing up the Death Star. Just like any number of other amazing feats of heroism littered throughout the movies.

It seems to me that people our age are very savy (for the most part) and are so knowledgeable about movies and about stories, about directing, and we all harbor so many informed and uniformed opinions that we cant even sit and enjoy something like this.

I dont htink its lazy so much as it is simple and uncomplicated.

I REALLY enjoyed Rogue One so it's not like I have some inability to enjoy a Star Wars movie. And I'm sorry, but your kid loving the movie doesn't prove anything one way or the other. If the goal is to please children and sell action figures they did a great job.

 

[Cackalacky]

I REALLY enjoyed Rogue One so it's not like I have some inability to enjoy a Star Wars movie. And I'm sorry, but your kid loving the movie doesn't prove anything one way or the other. If the goal is to please children and sell action figures they did a great job.

haha. I liked Rogue One too and its entire plot was to correct a plot hole from ANH and it didnt even really do that. But ok...

My point wasnt that my kid liked it proved anything..... Its that you if you engage in analyzing feats that require a suspension of disbelief by not disbelieving, you will be let down. Our initial love of the movies as children is not based on hyper critical analysis.