All Things SkunkBear

[ulukinatme]

If Harbaugh does go to Michigan, I doubt he's going to own Meyer like Meyer and Tressel have owned Michigan. I think Harbaugh could get a win or two, but I think Meyer would keep a winning record against the Wolverines. We'll see how this coaching search finishes.

 

[phork]

The depth of the crater is only going to be exacerbated by the fact that UM still needs a QB. Morris is not good and no one else on the roster seems capable. Not to mention this years class is bound to be a wash. Respectability won't be until year 4 at a minimum.

 

[EddytoNow]

No kidding! Easy for a rotten Skunkbear like Danford to make claims like that. Completely disregarding Urban Meyer's multiple national titles and .843 winning percentage. Compared to Harbaugh's zero titles and .580 winning percentage.

There's really no comparison, imo. Harbaugh is a "could be great", Urban Meyer is "great".

Not doubting your statistics one bit, but here's a good example of how statistics can be deceiving. Meyer has a history of taking over programs loaded with talent and taking them to the next step. Harbaugh, on the other hand, has taken bad programs and turned them into winners. In Meyers case the foundation was already set by the previous coach, and he took it to the next step. Harbaugh has taken a bare cupboard, restocked it with talented players, and produced winners.

Meyer inherited Bowling Green (a team built by the previous coach) and coached it for one year. No program building there. He moved to Utah (another team loaded with talent) and stayed two years. Once again, no program building there. He moved to Florida where he inherited another team loaded with talent and was successful immediately. The program deteriorated under his leadership and led the nation in arrests. He bailed on a sinking ship which he had created. He takes over an Ohio State program, which Jim Tressell had consistently coached to a top-ten finish. Once again he begins with a team loaded with talent and benefits from a powder-puff schedule. It remains to be seen whether or not Meyer can maintain a program once his own players form the bulk of the roster. Florida, the only team thus far where he's stayed long enough to judge, deteriorated badly under his tenure.

Don't get me wrong. Given the right circumstances (a roster built by someone else), Meyer is a very good coach. It remains to be seen whether or not he can be successful long-term at one school. His history would indicate he is a very good judge of talent and a great recruitor. However, he has not been a very good judge of character. It was his willingness to overlook character flaws when recruiting that led to his departure from Florida.

Harbaugh, on the other hand, took over losing programs and turned them into winners. His recruiting and coaching was the reason for his success. His overall record is less stellar than that of Meyer, because he began with a losing program and turned it into a winner. That takes time. Harbaugh also did it at one of the most demanding academic programs in the country. When he left for San Francisco, he left a core of players and a culture that has continued to win after his departure, not a cesspool like Meyer left for Muschamp.

The true test of Harbaugh's influence on Stanford should be evident to any Notre Dame fan. How much did we fear Stanford before Harbaugh arrived there? Now, they are routinely a possible loss on our schedule.

 

[MNIrishman]

Not doubting your statistics one bit, but here's a good example of how statistics can be deceiving. Meyer has a history of taking over programs loaded with talent and taking them to the next step. Harbaugh, on the other hand, has taken bad programs and turned them into winners. In Meyers case the foundation was already set by the previous coach, and he took it to the next step. Harbaugh has taken a bare cupboard, restocked it with talented players, and produced winners.

Meyer inherited Bowling Green (a team built by the previous coach) and coached it for one year. No program building there. He moved to Utah (another team loaded with talent) and stayed two years. Once again, no program building there. He moved to Florida where he inherited another team loaded with talent and was successful immediately. The program deteriorated under his leadership and led the nation in arrests. He bailed on a sinking ship which he had created. He takes over an Ohio State program, which Jim Tressell had consistently coached to a top-ten finish. Once again he begins with a team loaded with talent and benefits from a powder-puff schedule. It remains to be seen whether or not Meyer can maintain a program once his own players form the bulk of the roster. Florida, the only team thus far where he's stayed long enough to judge, deteriorated badly under his tenure.

Don't get me wrong. Given the right circumstances (a roster built by someone else), Meyer is a very good coach. It remains to be seen whether or not he can be successful long-term at one school. His history would indicate he is a very good judge of talent and a great recruitor. However, he has not been a very good judge of character. It was his willingness to overlook character flaws when recruiting that led to his departure from Florida.

Harbaugh, on the other hand, took over losing programs and turned them into winners. His recruiting and coaching was the reason for his success. His overall record is less stellar than that of Meyer, because he began with a losing program and turned it into a winner. That takes time. Harbaugh also did it at one of the most demanding academic programs in the country. When he left for San Francisco, he left a core of players and a culture that has continued to win after his departure, not a cesspool like Meyer left for Al Golden.

The true test of Harbaugh's influence on Stanford should be evident to any Notre Dame fan. How much did we fear Stanford before Harbaugh arrived there? Now, they are routinely a posible loss on our schedule.

1) All the Florida schools are cesspools
2) Al Golden didn't inherit anything from Meyer.

 

[EddytoNow]

1) All the Florida schools are cesspools
2) Al Golden didn't inherit anything from Meyer.

You are correct. It was Muschamp who was left the cesspool at Florida, not Al Golden. However, my main point remains the same. Urban Meyer recruits for football talent only. Character is way down the list of what he is looking for in recruits.

 

[BoredIrish]

I still remember those USC - Stanford games while Harbaugh was there. In spite of Pete the Poodle's success, Harbaugh not only had his number but went out of his way to get under Carroll's skin to the point where it was clear that he had succeeded in doing so.

I would loving nothing more than for Harbaugh to get under Urban's skin... UM looks like the type of guy that would absolutely melt down if poked once too many times.

 

[woolybug25]

You are correct. It was Muschamp who was left the cesspool at Florida, not Al Golden. However, my main point remains the same. Urban Meyer recruits for football talent only. Character is way down the list of what he is looking for in recruits.

I'm not sure what that has to do with winning, but ok. My point is that Urban has multiple titles while Harbaugh hangs his hat on the one 12-1 season he had. That's his entire resume. Take out that season, and Harbaugh is a sub .500 coach.

Now, I get the whole "program builder" thing, but neither is Saban. Does that make Harbaugh better than him too? One thing you are forgetting is that Urban did it in the SEC, while Harbaugh got to play the PAC12 teams. He played two hard games a year for crying out loud, and usually lost them.

I'm not saying that Harbaugh isn't a good coach, he is. I'm just saying that acting like he is better than an absolute proven commodity like Urban Meyer is crazy-talk.

 

[EddytoNow]

I'm not sure what that has to do with winning, but ok. My point is that Urban has multiple titles while Harbaugh hangs his hat on the one 12-1 season he had. That's his entire resume. Take out that season, and Harbaugh is a sub .500 coach.

Now, I get the whole "program builder" thing, but neither is Saban. Does that make Harbaugh better than him too? One thing you are forgetting is that Urban did it in the SEC, while Harbaugh got to play the PAC12 teams. He played two hard games a year for crying out loud, and usually lost them.

I'm not saying that Harbaugh isn't a good coach, he is. I'm just saying that acting like he is better than an absolute proven commodity like Urban Meyer is crazy-talk.

If we are discussing the possibility of Harbaugh being the next Michigan coach, the whole "program builder" thing becomes very relevant. The Michigan program needs to be rebuilt. They want a coach that will restore the glory of the Schembechler years. While their integrity has been compromised lately (Gibbons, Lewan, etc.), Michigan will not tolerate a campus full of criminal athletes. They have been embarrassed by Hoke's lack of discipline and are looking for someone with higher standards. Harbaugh fits the bill perfectly. He embodies the philosophy of doing things the right way. Urban Meyer, on the other hand, is a proven winner on the field. Whether or not his football teams embody the type of character you want associated with a world-class university is open for debate, and most of the evidence indicates that you don't want Urban Meyer's recruits out there as the face of the university.

 

[Wild Bill]

If we are discussing the possibility of Harbaugh being the next Michigan coach, the whole "program builder" thing becomes very relevant. The Michigan program needs to be rebuilt. They want a coach that will restore the glory of the Schembechler years. While their integrity has been compromised lately (Gibbons, Lewan, etc.), Michigan will not tolerate a campus full of criminal athletes. They have been embarrassed by Hoke's lack of discipline and are looking for someone with higher standards. Harbaugh fits the bill perfectly. He embodies the philosophy of doing things the right way. Urban Meyer, on the other hand, is a proven winner on the field. Whether or not his football teams embody the type of character you want associated with a world-class university is open for debate, and most of the evidence indicates that you don't want Urban Meyer's recruits out there as the face of the university.

Let's not act like Harbaugh was a saint at Stanford. I think Balco ran a lab out of their locker room.

 

[MNIrishman]

If we are discussing the possibility of Harbaugh being the next Michigan coach, the whole "program builder" thing becomes very relevant. The Michigan program needs to be rebuilt. They want a coach that will restore the glory of the Schembechler years. While their integrity has been compromised lately (Gibbons, Lewan, etc.), Michigan will not tolerate a campus full of criminal athletes. They have been embarrassed by Hoke's lack of discipline and are looking for someone with higher standards. Harbaugh fits the bill perfectly. He embodies the philosophy of doing things the right way. Urban Meyer, on the other hand, is a proven winner on the field. Whether or not his football teams embody the type of character you want associated with a world-class university is open for debate, and most of the evidence indicates that you don't want Urban Meyer's recruits out there as the face of the university.

Maybe not an ENTIRE campus full, but....

 

[IrishLax]

If we are discussing the possibility of Harbaugh being the next Michigan coach, the whole "program builder" thing becomes very relevant. The Michigan program needs to be rebuilt. They want a coach that will restore the glory of the Schembechler years. While their integrity has been compromised lately (Gibbons, Lewan, etc.), Michigan will not tolerate a campus full of criminal athletes. They have been embarrassed by Hoke's lack of discipline and are looking for someone with higher standards. Harbaugh fits the bill perfectly. He embodies the philosophy of doing things the right way. Urban Meyer, on the other hand, is a proven winner on the field. Whether or not his football teams embody the type of character you want associated with a world-class university is open for debate, and most of the evidence indicates that you don't want Urban Meyer's recruits out there as the face of the university.

Harbaugh has reportedly demanded total autonomy over player discipline. Does that mean he'll be harsh with it or lenient? I'm not sure.

 

[NDRock]

Harbaugh has reportedly demanded total autonomy over player discipline. Does that mean he'll be harsh with it or lenient? I'm not sure.

This is what worries me about ND's next coaching search. Having control over player discipline seems to be a high priority for these top coaches and as we've already seen, that will never happen at ND. Kelly seemed pissed how the frozen five deal was handled and I'm sure other coaches took note.

 

[MNIrishman]

This is what worries me about ND's next coaching search. Having control over player discipline seems to be a high priority for these top coaches and as we've already seen, that will never happen at ND. Kelly seemed pissed how the frozen five deal was handled and I'm sure other coaches took note.

Coaches having control over player discipline seems like your boss being given the authority of the police and the courts. I don't think I like it.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Coaches having control over player discipline seems like your boss being given the authority of the police and the courts. I don't think I like it.

That sounds like the current state of the NFL.

 

[NDRock]

Coaches having control over player discipline seems like your boss being given the authority of the police and the courts. I don't think I like it.

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, giving the coach total control but it seemingly has become the norm at big time programs.

 

[TomHaverford]

I'm not sure what that has to do with winning, but ok. My point is that Urban has multiple titles while Harbaugh hangs his hat on the one 12-1 season he had. That's his entire resume. Take out that season, and Harbaugh is a sub .500 coach.

Now, I get the whole "program builder" thing, but neither is Saban. Does that make Harbaugh better than him too? One thing you are forgetting is that Urban did it in the SEC, while Harbaugh got to play the PAC12 teams. He played two hard games a year for crying out loud, and usually lost them.

I'm not saying that Harbaugh isn't a good coach, he is. I'm just saying that acting like he is better than an absolute proven commodity like Urban Meyer is crazy-talk.

your entire post is crazy talk, specifically the bolded part. Harbaugh is a proven commodity.

He took a San Diego program in small ball that didn't give out scholarships and had zero history of winning anything to back to back 11-1 seasons.

He jumps to Stanford, takes over a program that went 1-11 the year before he got there and by year 4 he has them 12-1 with a BCS bowl victory.

He then jumps to the NFL- a league that is infinitely more difficult than the college ranks, and takes over a moribund franchise that hadn't been the the playoffs in almost 10 years and had won like 20 games in the previous 4 years combined and takes them to 3 straight NFC Championships and a Super Bowl with Alex Smith and Colin Kapernick as his QB's. It's not like the guy had Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, or Peyton Manning as his QB's. Alex Smith and Colin Kapernick.

To even suggest that Harbaugh isn't a proven commodity is sheer lunacy.

Urban Meyer is great college coach. Jim Harbaugh is a great NFL coach.

NFL > College.

It is way harder to win at the NFL level, which is why you see very few college coaches make that jump successfully and why you see very few college coaches ever get the opportunity to make the jump. Urban Meyer has never so much been contacted by NFL teams and he likely never will. Why? He's just not good enough to coach at that level.

 

[IrishLax]

your entire post is crazy talk, specifically the bolded part. Harbaugh is a proven commodity.

He took a San Diego program in small ball that didn't give out scholarships and had zero history of winning anything to back to back 11-1 seasons.

He jumps to Stanford, takes over a program that went 1-11 the year before he got there and by year 4 he has them 12-1 with a BCS bowl victory.

He then jumps to the NFL- a league that is infinitely more difficult than the college ranks, and takes over a moribund franchise that hadn't been the the playoffs in almost 10 years and had won like 20 games in the previous 4 years combined and takes them to 3 straight NFC Championships and a Super Bowl with Alex Smith and Colin Kapernick as his QB's. It's not like the guy had Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, or Peyton Manning as his QB's. Alex Smith and Colin Kapernick.

To even suggest that Harbaugh isn't a proven commodity is sheer lunacy.

Urban Meyer is great college coach. Jim Harbaugh is a great NFL coach.

NFL > College.

It is way harder to win at the NFL level, which is why you see very few college coaches make that jump successfully and why you see very few college coaches ever get the opportunity to make the jump. Urban Meyer has never so much been contacted by NFL teams and he likely never will. Why? He's just not good enough to coach at that level.

Agreed, there is no way Harbaugh doesn't win around 10 games a year in the steaming pile of talentless crap that is the Big Ten. Michigan will always have the most or second most talent in that pathetic conference... Harbaugh took Stanford, which was a complete doormat with no fans and no football investment with the hardest admissions standards in the NCAA, to the top of the second* best conference power conference.

Granted, he DID have a once-in-a-decade type at QB. You can't ignore that. But he has absolutely proven that he can turn around a program and that he can win big games.

Look at Michigan's schedule next year... untalented Utah, untalented + new coach Oregon State, mediocre BYU, MSU without Narduzzi, and PSU with 60ish scholarship players. Then you have Meyer's OSU who should be great. And then every other team is a total doormat that would be a 2+ TD underdog to a legit team. Who is Harbaugh losing to on that schedule besides OSU? The floor should be 8-10 wins with just with Michigan's defense and a plodding run-first offense. Then when he sells some star prep QB on "be the next Andrew Luck" by year 3 he should be winning at least 10 games a season. That's the FLOOR.

What will be interesting is that unless Michigan builds in an absurd poison pill buyout (which I doubt he'd agree to) I see him out of Ann Arbor for a choice NFL gig in 4-7 years. But he'll leave Michigan in GREAT shape relative to where they are now.

 

[MNIrishman]

your entire post is crazy talk, specifically the bolded part. Harbaugh is a proven commodity.

He took a San Diego program in small ball that didn't give out scholarships and had zero history of winning anything to back to back 11-1 seasons.

He jumps to Stanford, takes over a program that went 1-11 the year before he got there and by year 4 he has them 12-1 with a BCS bowl victory.

He then jumps to the NFL- a league that is infinitely more difficult than the college ranks, and takes over a moribund franchise that hadn't been the the playoffs in almost 10 years and had won like 20 games in the previous 4 years combined and takes them to 3 straight NFC Championships and a Super Bowl with Alex Smith and Colin Kapernick as his QB's. It's not like the guy had Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, or Peyton Manning as his QB's. Alex Smith and Colin Kapernick.

To even suggest that Harbaugh isn't a proven commodity is sheer lunacy.

Urban Meyer is great college coach. Jim Harbaugh is a great NFL coach.

NFL > College.

It is way harder to win at the NFL level, which is why you see very few college coaches make that jump successfully and why you see very few college coaches ever get the opportunity to make the jump. Urban Meyer has never so much been contacted by NFL teams and he likely never will. Why? He's just not good enough to coach at that level.

That's why everyone thinks that Jim Harbaugh is going to turn you down.

Of course, your point that UM isn't as good or "proven" as Harbaugh is "sheer lunacy." The NFL thing is meaningless. Heard of Charlie Weis, the NFL offensive genius? How'd that translate to college? They're different games. Some people are successful at both. Some are successful at one. But NFL success does NOT necessarily indicate college success.

Nevertheless, in the theater where it matters, college ball, Urban has led several programs to great success---greater success than Harbaugh. Of course, as we all know, a decent winning percentage during the regular season and failure to win a Rose Bowl counts as greatness at Michigan.

 

[IrishLax]

When you read between the lines, it's pretty clear that the 49ers don't want him in Oakland and their trade demands made him untouchable for most teams and that Michigan is a really soft landing spot where he won't have to deal with this BS and he'll be able to jump back to the NFL for the "perfect situation" on his terms a la Pete Carroll should that desire ever come.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Harbaugh is the perfect college coach. He's meticulous, demands perfection, and is a control freak. That style wears off in about 4 years, at which point his players would move to the NFL.

 

[IrishLax]

Harbaugh is the perfect college coach. He's meticulous, demands perfection, and is a control freak. That style wears off in about 4 years, at which point his players would move to the NFL.

Basically, Nick Saban minus the love of recruiting.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Basically, Nick Saban minus the love of recruiting.

Right. So Michigan wouldn't be Alabama. But the program would start to sell itself, to a certain extent.

 

[TomHaverford]

That's why everyone thinks that Jim Harbaugh is going to turn you down.

Of course, your point that UM isn't as good or "proven" as Harbaugh is "sheer lunacy." The NFL thing is meaningless. Heard of Charlie Weis, the NFL offensive genius? How'd that translate to college? They're different games. Some people are successful at both. Some are successful at one. But NFL success does NOT necessarily indicate college success.

Nevertheless, in the theater where it matters, college ball, Urban has led several programs to great success---greater success than Harbaugh. Of course, as we all know, a decent winning percentage during the regular season and failure to win a Rose Bowl counts as greatness at Michigan.

That's why I thought he was going to turn Michigan down, but it looks like it's pretty close to actually happening. A successful NFL head coach heading back to college is basically unprecedented. I can never remember it happening before. I think this is also why everyone thought it wasn't going to ever happen. But there is a ton of smoke right now. We'll see soon.

Charlie Weis? Seriously dude. I think you're confused. The guy had never been a head coach in the NFL ever, and the only reason anybody ever heard of him is because a guy named Tom Brady fell into his lap. Pats success is all Belichek and Brady. They've had position coaches come and go and get Head Coach jobs and fail like McDaniels, Weis, Crennel.

Lots of guys are good Co-ordinators, but just because they are good co-ordinators doesn't mean they can be head coaches. This is the category that Charlie Weis falls into.

I will give Weis credit, he's a shameless self promoter and parlayed his connection to Belichik and Brady into two high paying head coaching jobs in college and he's collecting like $5 mil this year from Kansas and ND to do nothing.

 

[Grahambo]

We also don't know which jobs are going to be open. There could be a surprise or two in there that could intrigue Jim.

I still view him as an NFL guy. I think he did his internship in college and bounced ASAP. I think the NFL is where he WANTS to be. Michigan is in such a hole roster wise though that I just don't think it's worth the time for him.

The SF beat reporter doesn't think he's going to college either and he would have more insight.

Doesn't mean he won't go, I just don't see him going and if he does, I don't see him being as successful.

He could alter his demeanor the way Tom Coughlin did.

 

[MNIrishman]

That's why I thought he was going to turn Michigan down, but it looks like it's pretty close to actually happening. A successful NFL head coach heading back to college is basically unprecedented. I can never remember it happening before. I think this is also why everyone thought it wasn't going to ever happen. But there is a ton of smoke right now. We'll see soon.

Charlie Weis? Seriously dude. I think you're confused. The guy had never been a head coach in the NFL ever, and the only reason anybody ever heard of him is because a guy named Tom Brady fell into his lap. Pats success is all Belichek and Brady. They've had position coaches come and go and get Head Coach jobs and fail like McDaniels, Weis, Crennel.

Lots of guys are good Co-ordinators, but just because they are good co-ordinators doesn't mean they can be head coaches. This is the category that Charlie Weis falls into.

I will give Weis credit, he's a shameless self promoter and parlayed his connection to Belichik and Brady into two high paying head coaching jobs in college and he's collecting like $5 mil this year from Kansas and ND to do nothing.

Your point was that NFL coaching ability translates to college, and my point is that there are lots of counter examples. Weis was considered an offensive genius before going to college and failed. Part of that is that he transitioned from the oc position, but a large part of it was a failed coaching style that didn't develop players and instead focused on scheme.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

All Things SkunkBear

That's why I thought he was going to turn Michigan down, but it looks like it's pretty close to actually happening. A successful NFL head coach heading back to college is basically unprecedented. I can never remember it happening before. I think this is also why everyone thought it wasn't going to ever happen. But there is a ton of smoke right now. We'll see soon.



Charlie Weis? Seriously dude. I think you're confused. The guy had never been a head coach in the NFL ever, and the only reason anybody ever heard of him is because a guy named Tom Brady fell into his lap. Pats success is all Belichek and Brady. They've had position coaches come and go and get Head Coach jobs and fail like McDaniels, Weis, Crennel.



Lots of guys are good Co-ordinators, but just because they are good co-ordinators doesn't mean they can be head coaches. This is the category that Charlie Weis falls into.



I will give Weis credit, he's a shameless self promoter and parlayed his connection to Belichik and Brady into two high paying head coaching jobs in college and he's collecting like $5 mil this year from Kansas and ND to do nothing.

Dammit, why did you make me defend Weis here?!?!?!?

Belichick/Brady Super Bowl wins with Weis as OC=3

Belichick/Brady Super Bowl wins without Weis as OC= 0

To summarize: Your argument that Belichick and Brady made Weis is flawed, find a new one, or at least modify it to reflect the reality that the Weis/Crennel years are on a different level, and you can't spout about "coordinators coming and going" and the success staying the same.

 

[Rizzophil]

49ers have outrageous trade demands but they can't keep after Monday. It's best for their franchise to move on quickly

 

[woolybug25]

your entire post is crazy talk, specifically the bolded part. Harbaugh is a proven commodity.

He took a San Diego program in small ball that didn't give out scholarships and had zero history of winning anything to back to back 11-1 seasons.

He jumps to Stanford, takes over a program that went 1-11 the year before he got there and by year 4 he has them 12-1 with a BCS bowl victory.

He then jumps to the NFL- a league that is infinitely more difficult than the college ranks, and takes over a moribund franchise that hadn't been the the playoffs in almost 10 years and had won like 20 games in the previous 4 years combined and takes them to 3 straight NFC Championships and a Super Bowl with Alex Smith and Colin Kapernick as his QB's. It's not like the guy had Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, or Peyton Manning as his QB's. Alex Smith and Colin Kapernick.

To even suggest that Harbaugh isn't a proven commodity is sheer lunacy.

Urban Meyer is great college coach. Jim Harbaugh is a great NFL coach.

NFL > College.

It is way harder to win at the NFL level, which is why you see very few college coaches make that jump successfully and why you see very few college coaches ever get the opportunity to make the jump. Urban Meyer has never so much been contacted by NFL teams and he likely never will. Why? He's just not good enough to coach at that level.

Haha... What a spin job. These are facts:

- 1 good season at Stanford
- 1 good season at SDSU, which is pretty much meaningless
- zero ncaa titles
- zero nfl titles

I never said that Harbaugh was a bad coach, neh... I even stated I really like him as a coach. But "great" is something that is reserved for those that have reached greatness. That is something Harbaugh simply hasn't done. A BCS game is good, it's not great. A bunch of bad, mediocre and "good" coaches have done that. What those coaches are missing, and very few have, are titles. So to use a good season at SDSU, one good season at Stanford and some NFC championship appearances as a basis for saying he's better than a guy with a significantly better winning percentage and multiple titles... Well, scumbear.... Bark that jive up somebody else's tree.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Clarification: Harbaugh had zero good seasons at SDSU, but two at SDU, which isn't even D-1. It was Hokemania that had one good season at SDSU.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Haha... What a spin job. These are facts:

- 1 good season at Stanford
- 1 good season at SDSU, which is pretty much meaningless
- zero ncaa titles
- zero nfl titles

I never said that Harbaugh was a bad coach, neh... I even stated I really like him as a coach. But "great" is something that is reserved for those that have reached greatness. That is something Harbaugh simply hasn't done. A BCS game is good, it's not great. A bunch of bad, mediocre and "good" coaches have done that. What those coaches are missing, and very few have, are titles. So to use a good season at SDSU, one good season at Stanford and some NFC championship appearances as a basis for saying he's better than a guy with a significantly better winning percentage and multiple titles... Well, scumbear.... Bark that jive up somebody else's tree.

FWIW, he had two 11-1 seasons at SDU. And his arc at Stanford was very good...4, 5, 8, and 12 wins. He built that team for sustained success and set up Shaw extremely well.

Is he elite? Potentially. I think you're saying that he doesn't have the resume to be considered elite. I think that's right. But my opinion is that he will be, especially if he takes a solid college position.