All Things Alabama

[Bishop2b5]

The championship that you claim is such an clear error that it changed the rules of voting for the group that voted for you forever. You lost to an undefeated team that was also crowned champion by every other notable poll. Your school attempting to claim it on a dumb technicality is embarrassing. Again, this board is soft and everyone that doesn't neg you for your Bama bullshit should turn in their gun and badge.

The AP had already changed a few years before. The UPI/Coaches was going to change in the next couple of years anyway. It had as much or more to do with TV making the bowls a much bigger deal. The Bama/ND game was only one factor and did nothing but speed the UPI along. Are you really this ticked that I posted facts that don't jibe with your narrative? Stop being such a sensitive puss about stuff. Now neg me for that if you need to, but stop boring me with thin skinned childish bs.

 

[MNIrishman]

"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters." - Paul "Lost to Notre Dame 4 out of 4 times" Bryant

 

[greyhammer90]

The AP had already changed a few years before. The UPI/Coaches was going to change in the next couple of years anyway. It had as much or more to do with TV making the bowls a much bigger deal. The Bama/ND game was only one factor and did nothing but speed the UPI along. Are you really this ticked that I posted facts that don't jibe with your narrative? Stop being such a sensitive puss about stuff. Now neg me for that if you need to, but stop boring me with thin skinned childish bs.

The fact that you call everyone who disagrees with you sensitive never stops being ironic.

If I'm not going to use the neg rep button on an ND board for a Bama fan who comes in throwing up the "bowl games were meaningless in 1973" argument, I never will. This ain't 24/7sports bud. This is IrishEnvy. Using the neg rep button in this situation should be in the User Agreement when you join the site.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Difference is, if ND went into a game that both teams, the media and everyone involved recognized as the National Title decider going in, and lost we wouldn't be having this conversation because they wouldn't be classless enough to attempt to throw out the result of the game with some bullshit pretzeling of logic after the fact.

You should take your complaint up with the UPI/Coaches poll. We didn't game the system. We didn't cheat. We didn't claim a title on some technicality. The polls didn't count bowl games for decades when choosing their NC. One started counting the bowl results in '65, the other in '74. Until then, they didn't. You aren't claiming ND should give up any titles won without playing in a bowl when they weren't relevant or any won before the BCS or the playoffs. The system changed over time and we go with the results of the system in place at that time. You're wanting to change results by applying later rules to a previous event. It doesn't work that way. Let it go.

 

[ACamp1900]

We didn't claim a title on some technicality.

lol, okay boss... you've claimed MANY on bs technicalities, just for clarity...

Grey is right I'm amazed you all aren't embarrassed by it. Again, I've sat at watched that entire broadcast a few different times. Before the game "This game to decide the National Title"... Pro-Bama Commentator, "I expect my boys to prove they are the greatest team in the land and win the National Title here tonight."... During the game "Welcome back to the Sugar Bowl, the game that will decide the National Champion"... after the game "Coach Parseghian, congratulations on winning the National Championship." Hell if memory serves they didn't even hand him the Sugar Bowl trophy it was a special National Champion trophy... but yeah it was all decided before the game. Give me a freakin break, this is the biggest example of group think bullshit outside of a political arena I've ever seen, "Hey gang look how I can twist this so we claim even more titles!!!" Is basically what this amounts to, and every brain stem outside of Bama's base knows it.

 

[Bishop2b5]

The fact that you call everyone who disagrees with you sensitive never stops being ironic.

If I'm not going to use the neg rep button on an ND board for a Bama fan who comes in throwing up the "bowl games were meaningless in 1973" argument, I never will. This ain't 24/7sports bud. This is IrishEnvy. Using the neg rep button in this situation should be in the User Agreement when you join the site.

First, don't misrepresent my argument. I never said bowl games were meaningless in '73. I said bowl games were generally viewed as rather meaningless since the mid '30's until the mid 60's (evidenced by the fact that both major polls awarded their NC before them), and with the advent of TV increased in importance until the AP and UPI later started waiting until after they were played to select an NC. That this is how it was and that the AP & UPI didn't use them before and why they didn't isn't even questionable. I'm not sure why this is even an argument.

Note that I've never made any claim that Bama was better than ND in '73. I've just explained why the UPI awarded the NC to Bama before the bowl. Not sure why that makes anyone mad.

 

[Bishop2b5]

lol, okay boss... you've claimed MANY on bs technicalities, just for clarity...

Grey is right I'm amazed you all aren't embarrassed by it. Again, I've sat at watched that entire broadcast a few different times. Before the game "This game to decide the National Title"... Pro-Bama Commentator, "I expect my boys to prove they are the greatest team in the land and win the National Title here tonight."... During the game "Welcome back to the Sugar Bowl, the game that will decide the National Champion"... after the game "Coach Parseghian, congratulations on winning the National Championship." Hell if memory serves they didn't even hand him the Sugar Bowl trophy it was a special National Champion trophy... but yeah it was all decided before the game. Give me a freakin break, this is the biggest example of group think bullshit outside of a political arena I've ever seen, "Hey gang look how I can twist this so we claim even more titles!!!" Is basically what this amounts to, and every brain stem outside of Bama's base knows it.

Again, ACamp, your issue is with the UPI/Coaches poll, not me. Yes, every Bama fan thought of it as the NC game. No, we had no control over when the AP or the UPI selected their champion. I've simply explained why the AP awarded their NC before the bowls until '65 and the UPI until '74 and asserted that whether you agree with how they did it at some point in the past or whether the system later changed, you go with the rules in place at that time.

 

[ACamp1900]

Then don't claim it... that simple. Notre Dame could easily claim numerous dubious titles and ESPN, the NCAA and everyone would just follow suit and give credit, except it'd be bullshit and classless. The buck stops with Bama claiming they won the title (when everyone on the planet knows they didn't) that year, not anyone else.

 

[Legacy]

The Alabama sports information director, Wayne Atcheson, added five "national championships" in 1982, which Alabama had not claimed up to that point - 1925, 1926, 1930, 1934 and 1941. All were good teams except 1941 when Alabama finished third in the SEC and a 9-2 record. (ND was 8-0-1. Minn was 8-0. The AP poll ranked Alabama #20.) Only one poll, based on a mathematical rating system had Ala as NC.

Atcheson said: “I want to say the right thing here. I made the change because Coach Bryant had these 25 years and six national championships and they were emphasized so much. It was on all the stationery. And when I got there, it was a matter of seeing there were five others (before Bryant) and we should put them all together. It was as simple as that. …

I tried to make Alabama football look the best it could look and just make it as great as it could possibly be. I was a competitor myself with the other schools, and what they bragged about and boasted about, I wanted people to know the best about my school.”

Some of these polls Alabama may have relied upon were retrospective rankings with those in current use differed from the ones current at the time.

I'd give the '25 and '26 NC to Alabama. '30 goes to ND. '34 and '41 to Minnesota.

One other point on bowl losses/wins:
Alabama claims the '64 and '73 titles though they lost those bowls, but were ranked #1 at the end of the regular season. They also claim '65 in which they were ranked #4 at the end of the regular season but others lost their bowls and post-bowl they were ranked #1.

 

[Bishop2b5]

The Alabama sports information director, Wayne Atcheson, added five "national championships" in 1982, which Alabama had not claimed up to that point - 1925, 1926, 1930, 1934 and 1941. All were good teams except 1941 when Alabama finished third in the SEC and a 9-2 record. (ND was 8-0-1. Minn was 8-0. The AP poll ranked Alabama #20.) Only one poll, based on a mathematical rating system had Ala as NC.

Atcheson said: “I want to say the right thing here. I made the change because Coach Bryant had these 25 years and six national championships and they were emphasized so much. It was on all the stationery. And when I got there, it was a matter of seeing there were five others (before Bryant) and we should put them all together. It was as simple as that. …

I tried to make Alabama football look the best it could look and just make it as great as it could possibly be. I was a competitor myself with the other schools, and what they bragged about and boasted about, I wanted people to know the best about my school.”

Some of these polls Alabama may have relied upon were retrospective rankings with those in current use differed from the ones current at the time.

I'd give the '25 and '26 NC to Alabama. '30 goes to ND. '34 and '41 to Minnesota.

One other point on bowl losses/wins:
Alabama claims the '64 and '73 titles though they lost those bowls, but were ranked #1 at the end of the regular season. They also claim '65 in which they were ranked #4 at the end of the regular season but others lost their bowls and post-bowl they were ranked #1.

Up until the late 70's/early 80's most teams only counted their AP & UPI titles. Around that time, SID's from several schools began to recognize and tout the ones they'd won before the AP (1936) and UPI (1950) came into existence and became, around 1950, THE polls and essentially the only recognized selectors of the NC. And they should've begun recognizing those pre-AP/UPI NC's. Teams were playing football before 1950 or 1936 and were being recognized by the major selectors of that era. Just because the AP or UPI didn't exist in 1901 or 1924 or 1935 doesn't mean there wasn't still a best team in the country that was widely recognized as such by the most respected selectors of those years.

My view has always been that if you were awarded a national championship by one of the major selectors of the time, count it... it's legit and earned. Anything since 1950 that wasn't awarded by the AP, UPI/Coaches, BCS or CFB Playoff shouldn't be recognized, but before 1950, there were other respected and generally accepted selectors and their choices should be recognized.

I agree with you about Bama for '25 & 26, think '30 & '34 saw the major selectors of that time differ on who they chose and both Bama and the other team had legit claims, and totally agree with you about '41... it was bogus and should've never been claimed.

 

[Legacy]

Up until the late 70's/early 80's most teams only counted their AP & UPI titles. Around that time, SID's from several schools began to recognize and tout the ones they'd won before the AP (1936) and UPI (1950) came into existence and became, around 1950, THE polls and essentially the only recognized selectors of the NC. And they should've begun recognizing those pre-AP/UPI NC's. Teams were playing football before 1950 or 1936 and were being recognized by the major selectors of that era. Just because the AP or UPI didn't exist in 1901 or 1924 or 1935 doesn't mean there wasn't still a best team in the country that was widely recognized as such by the most respected selectors of those years.

My view has always been that if you were awarded a national championship by one of the major selectors of the time, count it... it's legit and earned. Anything since 1950 that wasn't awarded by the AP, UPI/Coaches, BCS or CFB Playoff shouldn't be recognized, but before 1950, there were other respected and generally accepted selectors and their choices should be recognized.

I agree with you about Bama for '25 & 26, think '30 & '34 saw the major selectors of that time differ on who they chose and both Bama and the other team had legit claims, and totally agree with you about '41... it was bogus and should've never been claimed.

You're quite knowledgeable about this, as I would have expected, Bishop. Alabama and ND are tied at 22, based on criteria that any selector chose that team. That, however, does count '41, which means Alabama has 21 and ND has 22. How would you calculate it using "major selectors", Bishop? I think you have to eliminate the '30 championship for Alabama.

College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS

Fans of both schools think differently about NCs prior to '61, too. Irish fans think NCs generally have to be indisputable or consensus or best team in football that year. Alabama fans think of them as similar to awards.

In '73, few think of Alabama as the best team in college football. Alabama finished fourth in the AP (11-1, 0 first place votes). ND was 11-0, 33 first place votes. Ohio State (10-0-1, 11 first place votes), Oklahoma (10-0-1, 16 first place votes)

1973 NCAA Division I football rankings

Alabama's mythical championship in '73 was due to the Coaches poll (UPI) selecting the NC after the regular season. They changed that to post-bowls for 1974.

 

[Bishop2b5]

You're quite knowledgeable about this, as I would have expected, Bishop. Alabama and ND are tied at 22, based on criteria that any selector chose that team. That, however, does count '41, which means Alabama has 21 and ND has 22. How would you calculate it using "major selectors", Bishop? I think you have to eliminate the '30 championship for Alabama.

College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS

Fans of both schools think differently about NCs prior to '61, too. Irish fans think NCs generally have to be indisputable or consensus or best team in football that year. Alabama fans think of them as similar to awards.

In '73, few think of Alabama as the best team in college football. Alabama finished fourth in the AP (11-1, 0 first place votes). ND was 11-0, 33 first place votes. Ohio State (10-0-1, 11 first place votes), Oklahoma (10-0-1, 16 first place votes)

1973 NCAA Division I football rankings

Alabama's mythical championship in '73 was due to the Coaches poll (UPI) selecting the NC after the regular season. They changed that to post-bowls for 1974.

I'd have to look at the list you reference and research the selectors, but if my memory of it serves, some of those titles awarded to both our schools several decades ago are from selectors most of us wouldn't consider as the premier, most respected, major selectors of their time. Thus, the legit numbers for both schools would certainly be lower than 22. I think ND probably has some NC's that you guys should recognize and Bama shouldn't claim '41.

As for the bolded, I believe that there are a number of seasons where there wasn't a single team that almost every reasonable fan could agree was the indisputable best and where all the major selectors could agree. In the BCS and playoff era, you get a 1v2 matchup where there's a clear choice. However, in the decades before that, 1v2 rarely happened, bowl matchups left an unclear conclusion, two teams could have roughly equal resumes after the bowls, etc.

For example, if Bama went into the bowl season at 11-1 and ranked #4 then beat the #1 team by 3, while ND went in at 11-1 ranked #3 and beat the #2 team by 20, who do you crown the NC? You can make a good case for either and not be wrong either way. It may not be a unanimous or consensus choice, yet that doesn't mean neither has a legit claim if one of the major selectors crowns them. It can easily come down to how much value each poll's voters put on certain criteria and even if everyone involved is being completely fair & honest, they can occasionally reach different conclusions.

 

[irishtrain]

What a piece of work those Alabama fans are. Are they really as nutso as they sound? -it must be a Finebaum ploy. No one is that stupid. Just give em 25 NC's to keep them quiet because everyone knows they just made a first down and claimed another national championship. Kooko.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Alabama's mythical championship in '73 was due to the Coaches poll (UPI) selecting the NC after the regular season. They changed that to post-bowls for 1974.

The next year the UPI began selecting after the bowl game. The fact that during the broadcast and after, everyone called the '73 bowl game the championship game tells me there was one national champion that year, Notre Dame.

It seems like most logical people would say that. It wasn't an exhibition game, which is incredibly disingenuous, because all of the coaches, players and broadcasters called it the national title game. It was the title game which implies there was an undisputed winner and loser of that game, which bestowed the title.

I don't think the other seasons are as simple but this is pretty easy math. Claiming a title after the fact is garbage. I'd be embarrassed to claim a title after explaining that. I'd instead say, we lost the championship game even though the UPI had selected us as national champions at the end of the regular season.

****FORGOT TO ADD****


And BTW, what do you think precipitated the change in the UPI? Probably the fact they chose the wrong national champion because they weren't taking into account the title game. This isn't hard to understand, right?

 

[zelezo vlk]

.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

The Alabama sports information director, Wayne Atcheson, added five "national championships" in 1982 ...

"self-proclaimed is not the same as actually earning it." -Nick Saban to USA Today this week.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

To ensure you read this Bishop:

And BTW, what do you think precipitated the change in the UPI? Probably the fact they chose the wrong national champion because they weren't taking into account the title game. This isn't hard to understand, right?

 

[IrishLion]

I hope UCF and their fans continue to reference their 2017 National Championship. Didn't the Orlando Sentinel proclaim them national champs independently? Good enough.

It's funny seeing all the Bama fans (and SEC nuthuggers in general) get all riled up. I especially like the "What a joke!!! They couldn't survive a day in the SEC! We don't care about them anyway! Claiming that title just makes them look dum!" responses.

Nothing says "we don't care" like a bunch of Twitter outrage about a Group of 5 school lol.

 

[Bishop2b5]

And BTW, what do you think precipitated the change in the UPI? Probably the fact they chose the wrong national champion because they weren't taking into account the title game. This isn't hard to understand, right?

Not exactly. Since both polls had selected their champion before the bowls for decades, there had been a number of times where the team they crowned later lost their bowl game. It wasn't a big deal because during most of that time, the bowls were viewed very, very differently than they are now. Until TV started making them a big deal, they really were thought of as something more like an NFL preseason game or a post-season college all-star game of today... something completely separate from the actual season and having no bearing on it. It wasn't uncommon for a team's stars to not play much and for the coaches to instead play the younger players who'd be playing next year... sort of a very early pre-season game.

That seems so strange by today's standards, but that's how it was for 30-40 years. It's one of the reasons ND didn't even bother with playing in bowls during much of that era. It's why the AP named their NC before the bowl until '65, then again for the next 2 years until finally in '68, permanently waiting until after the bowls. It's why UPI waited until '74 to make the change. They were going to change with or without the '73 results. At most it pushed them to sooner, but they had already been heading that way and discussing it. It was TV that made the bowls bigger and more important during the 60's & early 70's until they became more of an extension of the season than a post-season exhibition separate from it.

 

[ACamp1900]

 

[Bishop2b5]

As a side note to how TV enormously changed how bowls were viewed:

The older guys here can back me up and this will seem odd to the younger guys, but during my days growing up in the 60's and 70's, you were lucky to see your team on TV twice during the season, and only then if your team was one of the big boys. If not, you might see them only once or not at all. I think NCAA rules limited a team to only two TV appearances per regular season. Saturdays were LEAN compared to today... maybe 5 or 6 games total between the three networks each week.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Not exactly. Since both polls had selected their champion before the bowls for decades, there had been a number of times where the team they crowned later lost their bowl game. It wasn't a big deal because during most of that time, the bowls were viewed very, very differently than they are now. Until TV started making them a big deal, they really were thought of as something more like an NFL preseason game or a post-season college all-star game of today... something completely separate from the actual season and having no bearing on it. It wasn't uncommon for a team's stars to not play much and for the coaches to instead play the younger players who'd be playing next year... sort of a very early pre-season game.

That seems so strange by today's standards, but that's how it was for 30-40 years. It's one of the reasons ND didn't even bother with playing in bowls during much of that era. It's why the AP named their NC before the bowl until '65, then again for the next 2 years until finally in '68, permanently waiting until after the bowls. It's why UPI waited until '74 to make the change. They were going to change with or without the '73 results. At most it pushed them to sooner, but they had already been heading that way and discussing it. It was TV that made the bowls bigger and more important during the 60's & early 70's until they became more of an extension of the season than a post-season exhibition separate from it.

Ok, fine. Show me the game log where Notre Dame and Alabama played their younger players instead of the starters/stars. Also, explain away the reason the coaches, players and TV announcers were calling it the national championship game?

None of the evidence backs up what you say, so you resort to the nebulous description of "today's standards are different". Fvck that, actually prove what you say is true. Show me where Alabama and Notre Dame sat their starters and stars for the 73 national championship game.

Show me where either coach or any of the players talked about how it was just an exhibition game. Otherwise, fVck off with that noise.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Ok, fine. Show me the game log where Notre Dame and Alabama played their younger players instead of the starters/stars. Also, explain away the reason the coaches, players and TV announcers were calling it the national championship game?

None of the evidence backs up what you say, so you resort to the nebulous description of "today's standards are different". Fvck that, actually prove what you say is true. Show me where Alabama and Notre Dame sat their starters and stars for the 73 national championship game.

Show me where either coach or any of the players talked about how it was just an exhibition game. Otherwise, fVck off with that noise.

I've said more than once in this discussion that virtually everyone viewed the '73 game as the NC game. I've explained that from around the time the AP poll came into existence in 1936 until the rise of TV starting in the late 50's and early 60's, bowls were viewed VERY differently than today and the two major selectors named their champions before them. Starting with the rise in popularity and influence of TV, that perception of the importance of the bowls began to change, culminating with the AP poll making their choice after the bowls in '65 and again from '68 onwards, and the UPI following suit a few years later. How much clearer can I make it that the bowls were viewed differently before then and the change in perception was gradual over a few years? No need to intentionally twist what I've said. Read the Wikipedia article on college football national championships. Write the AP, UPI, NCAA, the sports department at any of the networks, or talk to any old-time sports writer and see for yourself if all I've written isn't accurate.

 

[Ndaccountant]

1925, 1926, 1930. All back-dated titles. These titles were awarded years after the fact. Four teams could claim a back-dated title in 1925, eight teams in 1926, and two in 1930. See how inconsistent back-dated titles were? Doesn't matter. They don't really exist.

1934--The first year for the AP poll, given to Minnesota. Backdated crap be damned.

1941--hehe. Nice try,

1973--Rules at the time for the UPI...fine. But honestly, the other major selectors selected the team that beat you. Claiming this isn't akin to kissing your sister, it's frenching her while giver her the ole shocker.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I've said more than once in this discussion that virtually everyone viewed the '73 game as the NC game. I've explained that from around the time the AP poll came into existence in 1936 until the rise of TV starting in the late 50's and early 60's, bowls were viewed VERY differently than today and the two major selectors named their champions before them. Starting with the rise in popularity and influence of TV, that perception of the importance of the bowls began to change, culminating with the AP poll making their choice after the bowls in '65 and again from '68 onwards, and the UPI following suit a few years later. How much clearer can I make it that the bowls were viewed differently before then and the change in perception was gradual over a few years? No need to intentionally twist what I've said. Read the Wikipedia article on college football national championships. Write the AP, UPI, NCAA, the sports department at any of the networks, or talk to any old-time sports writer and see for yourself if all I've written isn't accurate.

If our friends on IE want to talk championships, their favorite school is not excluded from the discussion. Some on here know about the 1924 title that is claimed by Notre Dame. And some on here know just what a laughable set of events it was that led them to being named national champions. And even more laughable is the legend that was born from it. It was Rudy... before Rudy. But alas, it was 1924. It was 1966. It was 1973. The only NC that truly matters is the last one.

As far as our friends at UCF. The overwhelming majority of Tide fans found it entertaining that they were claiming a NC. Tide fans, like everyone else, knows who won the NC last season. But UCF has taken it a bit too far and calling out Bama in football is typically a losing proposition. You talk smack you usually get smacked - ask Washington. Ask Dabo. UCF can have their fun and claim what they want. Maybe 40 years from now members of a not yet formed sports forum board on the glorious web will look back and argue like school yard bullies about things that don't really matter at the end of the day. As far as T Town - I am enjoying the moment as I know it won't last forever.

 

[Legacy]

If our friends on IE want to talk championships, their favorite school is not excluded from the discussion. Some on here know about the 1924 title that is claimed by Notre Dame. And some on here know just what a laughable set of events it was that led them to being named national champions. And even more laughable is the legend that was born from it. It was Rudy... before Rudy. But alas, it was 1924. It was 1966. It was 1973. The only NC that truly matters is the last one.

As far as our friends at UCF. The overwhelming majority of Tide fans found it entertaining that they were claiming a NC. Tide fans, like everyone else, knows who won the NC last season. But UCF has taken it a bit too far and calling out Bama in football is typically a losing proposition. You talk smack you usually get smacked - ask Washington. Ask Dabo. UCF can have their fun and claim what they want. Maybe 40 years from now members of a not yet formed sports forum board on the glorious web will look back and argue like school yard bullies about things that don't really matter at the end of the day. As far as T Town - I am enjoying the moment as I know it won't last forever.

Are you saying ND did not win any NCs after 1924 until 1966? And that the Irish did not deserve the 1924 NC? ND was chosen National Champions by every major selector and by the NCAA in 1924 except one - Parke Davis - who chose 9-1-1 Penn, widely regarded as ridiculous. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

National championships
Notre Dame has won eight wire service (AP or Coaches') national championships, second most ever in the post-1936 poll era.[534]

Notre Dame claims national championships in an additional three seasons before the major poll era, for a total of 11. Notre Dame, however, is often credited with 13 consensus national championships in total. The 1938 and 1953 seasons are part of the reason for the discrepancy. In the 1938 season, 8–1 Notre Dame was awarded the national championship by the Dickinson System, while Texas Christian (which finished 11–0) was awarded the championship by the Associated Press. In the 1953 season, an undefeated Notre Dame team (9–0–1) was named national champion by every major selector except the AP and UPI (Coaches') polls, where the Irish finished second in both to 10–1 Maryland. As Notre Dame has a policy of only recognizing AP and Coaches' Poll national championships post-1936, the school does not officially recognize the 1938 and 1953 national championships.[375][535]

The NCAA does not list 1938 and 1953 but does recognize 1919 and 1964, making Notre Dame a national champion selection in thirteen seasons: 1919, 1924, 1929, 1930, 1943, 1946, 1947, 1949, 1964, 1966, 1973, 1977, 1988.[536]

Notre Dame has been voted national champion by at least one selector in an additional nine seasons: 1920, 1927, 1938, 1953, 1967, 1970, 1989, 1993, and 2012 [537][538]

In short, Notre Dame has 3 National Champions selected by the Coaches' Poll (1950-) and 8 selected by the AP Poll (1936-). The program claims 11 championships, the NCAA recognizes them with 13, and they've been selected National Champions 21 times by all NCAA recognized "major selectors."

The following is a list of Notre Dame's 11 claimed national championships:

Year Coach Selector Record Bowl
1924 Knute Rockne Helms, CFRA, NCF 10–0 Won Rose
1929 Knute Rockne Helms, CFRA, NCF 9–0 –
1930 Knute Rockne Helms, CFRA, NCF 10–0 –
1943 Frank Leahy AP 9–1 –
1946 Frank Leahy AP 8–0–1 –
1947 Frank Leahy AP 9–0 –
1949 Frank Leahy AP 10–0 –
1966 Ara Parseghian AP, Coaches' 9–0–1 –
1973 Ara Parseghian AP 11–0 Won Sugar
1977 Dan Devine AP, Coaches' 11–1 Won Cotton
1988 Lou Holtz AP, Coaches' 12–0 Won Fiesta
National Championships 11

Are you familiar with Frank Leahy's record (2nd best in college football history - to Rockne)?

Using the NCAA criteria of "major selectors" criteria (Alabama uses any selector not major selectors), ND has 21 NCs (bolded above).

 

[greyhammer90]

If our friends on IE want to talk championships, their favorite school is not excluded from the discussion. Some on here know about the 1924 title that is claimed by Notre Dame. And some on here know just what a laughable set of events it was that led them to being named national champions.

The undefeated Rose Bowl winning 1924 team?

As far as our friends at UCF. ... You talk smack you usually get smacked - ask Washington. Ask Dabo.

Ask Auburn! Oops...

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I've said more than once in this discussion that virtually everyone viewed the '73 game as the NC game. I've explained that from around the time the AP poll came into existence in 1936 until the rise of TV starting in the late 50's and early 60's, bowls were viewed VERY differently than today and the two major selectors named their champions before them. Starting with the rise in popularity and influence of TV, that perception of the importance of the bowls began to change, culminating with the AP poll making their choice after the bowls in '65 and again from '68 onwards, and the UPI following suit a few years later. How much clearer can I make it that the bowls were viewed differently before then and the change in perception was gradual over a few years? No need to intentionally twist what I've said. Read the Wikipedia article on college football national championships. Write the AP, UPI, NCAA, the sports department at any of the networks, or talk to any old-time sports writer and see for yourself if all I've written isn't accurate.

I must've misunderstood. You're agreeing with me there was only one national champion in 1973? And it was ND after they beat Alabama and it doesn't matter if the UPI had Bama before the championship game because all the coaches, players, announcers and everyone in America knew the winner of that game was the national champion? And the UPI selection process was an archaic process whose death was expedited by the 73 championship game?

If you agree with that and you believe anyone stating otherwise is either a fool or incorrect, then we definitely agree and I retract the above.

If you don't agree, on any of the points, I repeat: FVCK OFF

 

[T Town Tommy]

Are you saying ND did not win any NCs after 1924 until 1966? And that the Irish did not deserve the 1924 NC? ND was chosen National Champions by every major selector and by the NCAA in 1924 except one - Parke Davis - who chose 9-1-1 Penn, widely regarded as ridiculous. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.



Are you familiar with Frank Leahy's record (2nd best in college football history - to Rockne)?

Using the NCAA criteria of "major selectors" criteria (Alabama uses any selector not major selectors), ND has 21 NCs (bolded above).

There was no national champion in 1924. Nor at any time during the 20’s and early 30’s. Notre Dame was retroactively voted #1 in 1924. And Rockne led the charge to have them named national champions some time later. I cant remember the exact timeframe however. I dont know anything much about football from that timeframe and the Irish may veru well have been the best team that year. But those on this board that argue over 1973 or 1966 or whatever year should know that their Irish claim retroactive titles no different than any other school. One could probably make arguments about 1943 as well. But to me it is really more of a waste of time. Enjoy what you have in the moment and realize it may be years before you ever see another one. If you are even lucky then. The rest is nothing more than bragging rights about a school or program that really doesn’t mean much anyway.

 

[Bishop2b5]

If you don't agree, on any of the points, I repeat: FVCK OFF

You're arguing, getting mad, and yelling FVCK OFF over a discussion about football history because someone disagrees with your opinion. Let's leave it at that and move on.