Aliens Thread

[Irish YJ]

OMM, thanks for sharing. I've lived in the same neighborhood for 12+ years. For the first five of those years, I dismissed one of my neighbors as a UFO nut case. That is until I happened to drive by his yard late one evening with my girlfriend.

I said hello to be polite and he invited me into his yard where he had two large telescopes and a few spotter scopes. He said he and his buddy have been watching for a few hours and there was a lot of activity..... I rolled my eyes to my girlfriend, but decided to take a bite and asked to see. He proceeded to show me recordings on his laptop (it was connected to the telescope) of multiple white "blips" moving around the sky in ways no man made vessel that I know of, could travel. Accelerations, change of direction, etc..

15-20 minutes later his buddy interrupted my viewing (of the recordings) and handed me the spotter scope and pointed up while he moved the telescope into place. I could see the blips he was talking about through the scope, and later through the telescope once he tracked it.

Since that night, I've visited several times each summer. I've witnessed the same things on multiple occasions. I'm not saying these were aliens, but if they aren't, I'd like to know what the hell they are. Chris (my neighbor) has hundreds of hours of recordings. He's pretty deep into the whole alien thing... which intrigues me however I frankly just haven't had the time to dive into.

I've always thought that it was pretty arrogant of us to think we are the most intelligent life out there. That said, I still dismissed most of the stuff out there as garbage... that is until that evening with Chris and his buddy. Interesting stuff. Hope they are friendly.

PS.... Chris keeps a low profile (pretty paranoid dude) for whatever reason. If you're interested in connecting with him, PM me and I'll ping him.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

OMM is the spawn of a an alien race of offensive linemen.





Now, if they would just respond to what was said, rather than to what they think they heard ... if they were listening in the first place.

I don't think they are that bad, nor his he. He hardly ever insults anyone!

I had an aunt that lived here in town, but had a weekend cottage in the Irish Hills. She used to take the back way up 223 often, going out Central Avenue. I only mention that because it plays directly into the story. She could have taken 23 North to M-50 West. On one visit she was a little spooked and first mentioned that she saw something unusual in the sky. She mentioned her route and after a few hi-balls gave us the low down. On one hand, she had become the family drama queen, and on the other, she left her comfortable job in the secretarial pool during the Second World War to fly spotter on a PBY, part of a U-boat killer squadron. She spotted two which resulted in U-boat kills. She was a very formidable and capable woman. And she was a trained observer and spotter. She wrote notes while it was fresh. She included cross streets.

The next day or so we heard filler from some of the news program about how Michigan Governor Romney had spotted a UFO while flying in his plane. Others in the Jackson area saw that same anomaly.

Kind of added a little more starch to her story. I would be interested in your take on this story OMM. It seems years later I saw some kind of documentary which witnesses to this same event were explained off as having observed "swamp gas." My understanding was that this was the first and only time swamp gas was used as an explanation, and that it had to be erroneous in this case also.

We should ask BVG, he may be just old enough to remember it.

 

[tussin]

Am I wrong for being very suspect of the theory that humanity will destroy itself via technology (i.e. nukes)? I believe humanity would still easily survive right now even if we detonated every single one currently in existence in a doomsday scenario.

 

[johnnycando]

Am I wrong for being very suspect of the theory that humanity will destroy itself via technology (i.e. nukes)? I believe humanity would still easily survive right now even if we detonated every single one currently in existence in a doomsday scenario.

The genetic mutation and cancers suffered from radioactive fallout would be tough to survive to be real frank.

No to mention the fact those within radius are fried into oblivion.

So survive for a while. They might. But not for long. Water, soil and hence food from veggies and animals would be contaminated. And as we continued to eat them, we would further increase our bone deposition as many of the transuranics generated are mistaken as essential minerals.

An easy correlation is how sharks at the top of the food chain tend to be highly contaminated with mercury etc. from eating fish. A lot of effects from contamination would be unseen in animals with short lifespans, but we would be hard pressed for our species to make the age of reproduction without effects limiting life prior.

 

[tussin]

The genetic mutation and cancers suffered from radioactive fallout would be tough to survive to be real frank.

No to mention the fact those within radius are fried into oblivion.

So survive for a while. They might. But not for long. Water, soil and hence food from veggies and animals would be contaminated. And as we continued to eat them, we would further increase our bone deposition as many of the transuranics generated are mistaken as essential minerals.

Aren't modern nuclear weapons much "cleaner" in terms of radiation, causing the nuclear winter only to last a few months?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

The genetic mutation and cancers suffered from radioactive fallout would be tough to survive to be real frank.

And I personally am not worried about the number of humans that die. It is more about the birds and bees. Look at Chernobyl. Areas around it seem to be recovering from the original incident. But the area will be desert in a century or two. The bird, insects, bee's etc. cannot reproduce in quantity and maintain a healthy size (viability) to survive. Plant life is next to be affected. And the water is dying. Plant, algae, and bacteria is dying so fast that great stretches of water are not maintaining a sufficient level of oxygen to support life.

The nukes go off, and bend over and kiss your ass goodbye, while you still have the flexibility.

Survivable nukes is another fantasy to go along with decriers of global climate change.

Aren't modern nuclear weapons much "cleaner" in terms of radiation, causing the nuclear winter only to last a few months?

Think about what you just said. Half life is half life.

And the leak at Chernobyl was a drop in the bucket compared to one of these modern weapons.

What you must be referring to is neutron bombs. The clean bombs that kill humans, leave buildings in tact, and then dissipate rapidly, so new not horribly disintegrated humans can re-occupy those buildings. Great planning; concept works, but they don't have the psychological deterrence of "what we gots."

Lots of people believe in star wars too. But after a few got rich off that, it was scrapped.

 

[johnnycando]

Aren't modern nuclear weapons much "cleaner" in terms of radiation, causing the nuclear winter only to last a few months?

I'd say we are either pregnant or not pregnant.

The decay constituents from an atom bomb take tens of million of years to decay.

But I'm not a nuclear physicist.

 

[tussin]

And I personally am not worried about the number of humans that die. It is more about the birds and bees. Look at Chernobyl. Areas around it seem to be recovering from the original incident. But the area will be desert in a century or two. The bird, insects, bee's etc. cannot reproduce in quantity and maintain a healthy size (viability) to survive. Plant life is next to be affected. And the water is dying. Plant, algae, and bacteria is dying so fast that great stretches of water are not maintaining a sufficient level of oxygen to support life.

The nukes go off, and bend over and kiss your ass goodbye, while you still have the flexibility.

Survivable nukes is another fantasy to go along with decriers of global climate change.



Think about what you just said. Half life is half life.

And the leak at Chernobyl was a drop in the bucket compared to one of these modern weapons.

What you must be referring to is neutron bombs. The clean bombs that kill humans, leave buildings in tact, and then dissipate rapidly, so new not horribly disintegrated humans can re-occupy those buildings. Great planning; concept works, but they don't have the psychological deterrence of "what we gots."

Lots of people believe in star wars too. But after a few got rich off that, it was scrapped.

I'm on my phone so I can't find the research I've read that speaks to advances in nuclear technology to potentially limit the nuclear winter. But I know I read it.

I also remember reading how the eruption of Mt Pinatubo was expected to have the effect of a nuclear blast but the environment recovered quite quickly. This is all based on memory.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I'm on my phone so I can't find the research I've read that speaks to advances in nuclear technology to potentially limit the nuclear winter. But I know I read it.

I also remember reading how the eruption of Mt Pinatubo was expected to have the effect of a nuclear blast but the environment recovered quite quickly. This is all based on memory.

Blast, yes; radioactive fallout, no. The rest is used car salesmanship.

If you want to understand your personal experience with a nuclear weapon, picture that weapon. Now picture you with a tube of KY jelly in your had. Then, picture them shoving that bomb right up your ass. The KY isn't going to make much of a difference is it?

A conversation about how clean the fallout of a nuclear blast a hundred times larger than the largest test blasts that we have data on isn't going to matter. But I am not a nuclear physicist.

 

[Bluto]

Places like Pumapunku certainly give me pause.

 

[dshans]

Aliens, Schmaliens.

It's simple. Really it is.

The truth of the matter is that eons ago "Sure, a little bit o' heaven fell from out the sky one day ... ":

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ACpt3Q6Ke34?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Along with the shamrocks, Leprechauns, Banshees and other various and sundry fairies were ---- ALIENS!

That is all. Problem solved.

Have a Happy St. Patrick's Day. Eat, Drink and Be Merry. Oh, and stay safe.

[If you're like me, go a little light on the cabbage. It can be a problem later in crowded social situations in spaces with inadequate ventilation.]

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Aliens, Schmaliens.

It's simple. Really it is.

The truth of the matter is that eons ago "Sure, a little bit o' heaven fell from out the sky one day ... ":

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ACpt3Q6Ke34?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Along with the shamrocks, Leprechauns, Banshees and other various and sundry fairies were ---- ALIENS!

That is all. Problem solved.

Have a Happy St. Patrick's Day. Eat, Drink and Be Merry. Oh, and stay safe.

[If you're like me, go a little light on the cabbage. It can be a problem later in crowded social situations in spaces with inadequate ventilation.]

Just as bad as human annihilation via nukes.

 

[Irish#1]

I don't think they are that bad, nor his he. He hardly ever insults anyone!

I had an aunt that lived here in town, but had a weekend cottage in the Irish Hills. She used to take the back way up 223 often, going out Central Avenue. I only mention that because it plays directly into the story. She could have taken 23 North to M-50 West. On one visit she was a little spooked and first mentioned that she saw something unusual in the sky. She mentioned her route and after a few hi-balls gave us the low down. On one hand, she had become the family drama queen, and on the other, she left her comfortable job in the secretarial pool during the Second World War to fly spotter on a PBY, part of a U-boat killer squadron. She spotted two which resulted in U-boat kills. She was a very formidable and capable woman. And she was a trained observer and spotter. She wrote notes while it was fresh. She included cross streets.

The next day or so we heard filler from some of the news program about how Michigan Governor Romney had spotted a UFO while flying in his plane. Others in the Jackson area saw that same anomaly.

Kind of added a little more starch to her story. I would be interested in your take on this story OMM. It seems years later I saw some kind of documentary which witnesses to this same event were explained off as having observed "swamp gas." My understanding was that this was the first and only time swamp gas was used as an explanation, and that it had to be erroneous in this case also.

We should ask BVG, he may be just old enough to remember it.

That was me after a burrito dinner at El Toro's.

On a little more serious note......I don't think humans think of themselves as the superior race necessarily, but why not? To me, most have a narrow point of view of aliens and how they relate to humans and planet earth.

I'll throw these questions I posed earlier back out here.
1. Why do we assume Aliens are mentally superior?
2. Why do we assume Aliens walk on two feet?
3. Why do we assume Aliens have superior technology?
4. Why do we assume a planet needs to have a certain molecular makeup for Aliens to live there?
5. Why can't Alien life only be an insect or animal that only has instincts and can't reason?
6. Why can't we be the superior mental race?
7. Why do we assume if an Alien landed on earth that they are superior to us? Maybe their spacecraft was similar to ours, only they got caught up in some phenomenon that pulled or pushed their craft to earth.

Just food for thought.

 

[rikkitikki08]

All i know is i thought this would be a fun little thread where we could crack some jokes and discuss a serious topic with a bit of humor, then OMM stepped in and fucking blew my mind. Im no kiss ass but reading his posts in the last two pages were a treat

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Did he ever try to contact the OSU lab to let them know?

By the way, that OSU lab was at Ohio Wesleyan University, old OWU, which may seem insignificant, but before it becomes lost for all times to history, I was down there, (almost went there to play football), and had some good friends down there. Almost remember that place like it was yesterday.


Looked just like this.

 

[connor_in]

That was me after a burrito dinner at El Toro's.

On a little more serious note......I don't think humans think of themselves as the superior race necessarily, but why not? To me, most have a narrow point of view of aliens and how they relate to humans and planet earth.

I'll throw these questions I posed earlier back out here.
1. Why do we assume Aliens are mentally superior? this is hard to judge, depends on how you rate it...was Einstein mentally superior to Shakespeare? If you mean scientifically smarter then odds are that there are some above and below us and some you cannot compare...too different
2. Why do we assume Aliens walk on two feet? For SciFi story telling it is easier, plus it makes it more recognizable...it does not have to be...could be amoebea-like
3. Why do we assume Aliens have superior technology? once again, this comes down to compared to ones that would visit us...to make the journey, they probably would have to be at least at a similar level to far more advanced (we have had the Orion ship plan for years)
4. Why do we assume a planet needs to have a certain molecular makeup for Aliens to live there? This is the arrogance of the carbon based life theory
5. Why can't Alien life only be an insect or animal that only has instincts and can't reason? it can be...and technically they have found traces of microorganisms even on Mars
6. Why can't we be the superior mental race? we could be, depends on your criteria...if you mean technologically...someone has to be on top...but odds favor that we are avg
7. Why do we assume if an Alien landed on earth that they are superior to us? Maybe their spacecraft was similar to ours, only they got caught up in some phenomenon that pulled or pushed their craft to earth. if they intended to come here they would be on a similar to higher level of technology or just hit that one thing that makes space travel easier...on the other hand, dumb luck can figure into it...see Farscape

Just food for thought.

I actually posted earlier in the thread some answers with the Drake equation...but see above too

 

[Irishman77]

A few notes and I'll retire for the evening:

1]. The Pope stated in the early 1950s that the discovery of intelligent life not from Earth would challenge no Catholic theological principles. As decades went on, the so-called "high" Protestant denominations [Anglicans, Episcopalians, Lutherans etc] followed suit. Middle-of-the-Road Jewish scholars have said the same, as have oriental leaders such as the Dalai Lama.

The holdouts here have been mainly the protestant right wing, with extremists like Pat Robertson saying that anyone who reports having a UFO experience "is in league with Satan, and should be taken into the street and publicly stoned to death." I wish that I was making that up but I am not.

2]. Fran did not contact the OSU lab because he knew nothing of their work at the time, and years went by until another colleague pointed out the date coincidence to him. {remember we are all amateurs on this and must do everything on our own dime and time}. By the time this was clear, the OSU observatory was closed down. I'm not sure if Professor Kraus is even still alive.

3]. Wooly: when you go through the intellectual "game" which is the Drake equation, you end up doing your best at estimating its factors and it gives you the odds on coincidentally existing advanced civilizations. All of us "romantics" [Sagan, Drake, myself] find our estimations trending towards very many currently existing "cultures". The nay-sayers call us fools and argue with the estimates of certain factors. The number of stars and goldilocks planets and even the formation of simple life are relatively non-controversial for the vast majority of discussants [I'm holding scraps of two carbonaceous chondrite meteors just now, which came from deep space, the Murchison and the Allende, and contain amino acids, nucleic acids, glycerol, etc made "somewhere else". People still hip to their biology classes will recognize the biochemical building blocks of life]. The big arguments are over whether simple life will advance and on to true technological intelligence. Nay-sayers say unlikely, but romantics rest their hopes on a strong scientific principle discovered by Ilya Prigogine, which in short states that any complex self-repairing system will inevitably increase in complexity. [there's more to it than that]. If you accept Prigogine's universal principle, then nothing is holding back the coming to be of technological cultures, except evolving on an all-water world [don't ask]. For us romantics then, the only real question is how quickly will such a species out-run its senses with its technology and destroy itself. There let each one's optimism or pessimism enter.

Old Man looking for a soft chair now. Sleep easy friends, the ETs that cruise around so cleverly now are peaceful. They could long ago kicked our butts if they weren't.

Oh, I'm sorry Steelhead: the only mysterious things that I've seen in ancient archaeology are the fitted stones at the Andean fortress of Sacsahuaman near Cuzco Peru. All standard explanations there have been ridiculous. I think that I see how we could have handled everything else that I've researched.

Mike exo-vaticana by Tom horn might be an enjoyable read for you.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ukSGV1MegQA

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ghfGHkMyE

 

[NDohio]

Avoided this thread as it doesn't really interest me. Folks were talking about OMM on other threads so I came to check it out. Wow - OMM - wow. Great stuff. Look forward to you having time to throw some other info on here.

I do believe there is life out there but am not convinced it is equal to, nor above, human life in intellect. Someone convince me otherwise.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'll make another brief appearance and fade back out.

No one can simply answer these questions for you. There are shallow "intuitive" {BS} answers and there are educated guesses. The educated guesses are divided between those who seriously consider the UFO phenomenon and those who don't.

1). mental superiority: no one of any perspective suggests this. If we cruised in on them, even Technological superiority would be up for grabs. But if they cruise in on us, then they are clearly technologically superior. Interstellar spaceflight we are nowhere near doing. Interdimensional space warping even further from; Mental superiority involves many things. Technological superiority is easily determined.

2]. Why humanoid form: There is no need for humanoid form if the alien is not a land-dweller of significant size. However, a technologically advanced space-faring alien must have at some earlier time in its evolution been one. This is a vast scientific subject of which even Sagan had to be corrected. It involves convergent evolution, and the physics and geometry of forms as they efficiently and safely adapt to land-dwelling. This even applies to the structure of the face. I can't "teach this course". Read Simon Conway Morris;

3]. We don't assume aliens to have superior technology unless they have interstellar or interdimensional space travel technology and can get here. There would need to be a nearly uncountable number of advances over our level of tech to accomplish that, including some which are biological and medical;

4]. Molecular make-up: another textbook. You are going to have to follow this out yourself. It involves the universally common distribution of the elements as produced by the nuclear fusion processes of stars and particularly supernovas. It then proceeds to the understanding that simple molecules cannot be used as final actors in the processes of replication and SELF-MAINTENANCE [the big one] which constitute the phenomenon of Life. To attain the proper molecular complexity one needs atoms which will "string" together. There are only two: C and Si. Si polymerizes but is relatively inflexible and the polymers do not easily mutate except at very high temperatures. Calculations show that the binding/unbinding chemistry is exceedingly poor for anything as dynamic as Life needs to be. Within the Carbon array of compounds variety COULD exist, but this is a vast statistics game, and the fundamental molecules which build Earth life have been conclusively shown to be the ones which form most easily. The odds are that life will form from that which is there rather than that which is not; Read about "Cosmochemistry" and "Biogenesis" and "Protolife evolution" on the internet;

5]. obviously alien life can be insects or microorganisms. There is doubtless FAR more microorganism life in the galaxy than advanced multicellular life. The evolutionary advancement from single cells to multicellular organisms with specialized parts is probably the toughest thing in evolution. Some worlds will pull it off, some won't. However if we find anything as advanced as insects, it is an evolutionary blink of the eye to get to much more "brainy" and large things;

6]. discussion of general mental superiority is fruitless unless someone would try to define what that meant... sort of like the equally pointless discussion of "best athlete" elsewhere. Subjective answers such as "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it" are showstoppers;

7]. With respect, the "just got caught up in a space oddity" scenario can't be taken as much of a grounds for discussion. This is particularly true if one takes the UFO phenomenon seriously. I have a few thousand incidents in my own pitifully small files. That's a whole lot of space accidents happening to intellectually inferior people.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Oh, Bogs, sorry to neglect your family story. I can't say much about this. The "Swamp Gas" USAF gaff occurred in March of 1966 when Michigan was having a concentrated flurry of UFO incidents ["a Flap"]. The key cases then were Hillsdale, Dexter, Ann Arbor, and Vicksburg --- all of these are probably solid cases and definitely not swamp gas. {the swamp gas "explanation" had in fact been used once before, but Hynek may not have known that}.

Governor Romney's plane buzzer case occurred a few months later, I think, but I have no file on it. If your relative saw her UFO in the March timeframe, she was right in line with the flap.

 

[tko]

All i know is i thought this would be a fun little thread where we could crack some jokes and discuss a serious topic with a bit of humor, then OMM stepped in and fucking blew my mind. Im no kiss ass but reading his posts in the last two pages were a treat

He still never said whether or not he's been probed.

 

[dshans]

Saw this today:


<a href="http://s437.photobucket.com/user/dshans/media/Aliens_zps2ff83fcd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq93/dshans/Aliens_zps2ff83fcd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo Aliens_zps2ff83fcd.jpg"/></a>

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Oh, Bogs, sorry to neglect your family story. I can't say much about this. The "Swamp Gas" USAF gaff occurred in March of 1966 when Michigan was having a concentrated flurry of UFO incidents ["a Flap"]. The key cases then were Hillsdale, Dexter, Ann Arbor, and Vicksburg --- all of these are probably solid cases and definitely not swamp gas. {the swamp gas "explanation" had in fact been used once before, but Hynek may not have known that}.

Governor Romney's plane buzzer case occurred a few months later, I think, but I have no file on it. If your relative saw her UFO in the March timeframe, she was right in line with the flap.

Actually her ride was right along that line. I am wondering since I was a child, about nine if this wasn't a more protracted incident, with more than one occurrence. I looked through news articles and you are right. I only saw one from Romney in early September. But I remember the bickering and brouhaha during spring cleanup, which we always attended, (putting the raft, the dock, and the boat in, and un-winterizing.) So that would jibe with a March, April time frame.

I could have conflated her and the others observations in March with the other incident in September. She would have referred to that as justification and validation. But in truth I would have been conflating two incidents, six months apart. Her cottage sat on a line between Hillsdale and Ann Arbor, in fact it was less than two miles from Cambridge Junction, the intersection of M-50 and M-12. M-12 Runs in to Hillsdale and East-North-East through Ann Arbor and Ypsi and becomes Grand River Avenue in Detroit. All the towns you mentioned were a stone throw from Kelly, except Vicksburg which is way west in K-zoo County, of course, near where you taught.

Man I wish I could find that recording someone made of her recounting her sighting!

 

[connor_in]

 

[IrishLion]

The dangers of looking for alien life, via google:

 

[ACamp1900]

My wife is part alien… her cousins, who are full aliens, do our landscaping.

 

[woolybug25]

My wife is part alien… her cousins, who are full aliens, do our landscaping.

 

[koonja]

Agree with Nuke, but:

This kind of stuff fascinates me. I'm most intrigued by the links between aliens and the Egyptians, Mayans, etc. that people talk about.

OMM, what is your take on some ancient civilizations getting "help" building their advanced societies?

I believe there's most likely life on other planets, but I don't buy the UFO sightings. If they're smart enough to come here, it would happen more often, no? I guess maybe it does and they 'kidnap' us in a clever way that we don't realize, but that's too bizarre for me to fathom.

 

[Irish#1]

I believe there's most likely life on other planets, but I don't buy the UFO sightings. If they're smart enough to come here, it would happen more often, no? I guess maybe it does and they 'kidnap' us in a clever way that we don't realize, but that's too bizarre for me to fathom.

I used to believe in Aliens years ago, but as I've grown older, I'm not sure which way I lean. To elaborate on Kuehnja's statement.......If they have visited us, why are they so secretive? Why haven't we spoke to them or seen them up close and personal? More food for thought.

 

[johnnycando]

Aliens will be part of project blue beam.

It's all working out as planned.

It's amazing to watch it unfold.

The Secret Sun: Project Blue Beam Exposed!