'22 OH QB Drew Allar (Penn State Verbal)

[Rogue219]

QB Recruits all time under BK (with Angeli included for context):

Gunner Kiel	National 26	0.9878
Brandon Wimbush	National 46	0.9792
Tyler Buchner	National 70	0.9685
Phil Jurkovec	National 83	0.9593
Malik Zaire	National 162	0.9300
Drew Pyne	National 225	0.9164
Avery Davis	National 246	0.9078
DeShone Kizer	National 242	0.9073
Andrew Hendrix	National 284	0.8999
Everett Golson	National 267	0.8937
Steve Angeli	National 375	0.8900
Brendon Clark	National 521	0.8796
Tommy Rees	National 421	0.8795
Ian Book	National 517	0.8681
Luke Massa	National 859	0.8559
Ron Powlus III	National n/a	0.8126

I swallowed my own throw up.

 

[Luckylucci]

Watched his film again, Angeli wouldn't be the end of the world. I cant find it, but that video of him working out/ 7 on 7 game where he just continued to throw duck after duck is hard for me to get past

Not the end of the world indeed but just more of the same. To his credit he does somethings on film that rightfully earned him solid P5 scholarship offers. But, it just feels like a solid/safe choice when we have, for the most part, a room of those guys already. The room lacks upside and size. I was really hoping we'd use this class to get the big guy with the big arm.

 

[Irish#1]

It's not so much the big arm as it is between the ears.

 

[NDdomer2]

It's not so much the big arm as it is between the ears.

I will take both please.

 

[dublinirish]

Angeli strikes me as a sort of guy who could come to ND and be successful but at same time he could go somewhere else and flame out and never be heard of again, if that makes sense?

 

[Luckylucci]

I will take both please.

Exactly, the good ones have both. And one is easier to develop than the other. We shouldn't be excluding ourselves from these recruitments because these guys are not a young Tommy Rees.

 

[Dale]

They should have taken Angeli months ago and then seen how it shakes out from there

 

[Luckylucci]

It's not so much the big arm as it is between the ears.

They have to start recruiting for guys with more raw talent and building them from there. There will be busts, Wimbush. There will be successes, Kizer. But it's pretty silly to act like Tommy is properly discerning (over the phone and with virtual meetings no less) the mental aptitude of every top QB in the country with the expectation that he'll find the next Joe Montana or Tom Brady. It's a lot easier to look at the big guys with the big arms (or any recruit with an elite-ish tangible trait for that matter), recruit 5-6 every 4 years and coach them up. One is realistic and one is of fairy tales.

We're recruiting to a profile that just doesn't exist much in the NFL. How many QB's go in the top 2-3 rds of the draft every year 6'2 or under and/or don't have an elite physical trait to them? We just had an entire depth chart of them. The NFL isn't drafting smart QB's. They are drafting talented QB's. Who may or may not be smart.

Clark Lea did an interview with 247 sports last offseason and he was asked about length at the LB position and it's relevance to recruiting. He basically said, that they will recruit a 6' LB if they think he can play but they will not recruit a room full of 6' LB's because it limits the upside of the room. Time for Tommy and company to do the same. Have to start pushing the room into a physical profile that has more upside. You can do that with size, athleticism, arm strength, etc. but it needs to be done. If you cannot develop those guys then you shouldn't have a job.

 

[dublinirish]

They have to start recruiting for guys with more raw talent and building them from there. There will be busts, Wimbush. There will be successes, Kizer. But it's pretty silly to act like Tommy is properly discerning (over the phone and with virtual meetings no less) the mental aptitude of every top QB in the country with the expectation that he'll find the next Joe Montana or Tom Brady. It's a lot easier to look at the big guys with the big arms (or any recruit with an elite-ish tangible trait for that matter), recruit 5-6 every 4 years and coach them up. One is realistic and one is of fairy tales.

We're recruiting to a profile that just doesn't exist much in the NFL. How many QB's go in the top 2-3 rds of the draft every year 6'2 or under and/or don't have an elite physical trait to them? We just had an entire depth chart of them. The NFL isn't drafting smart QB's. They are drafting talented QB's. Who may or may not be smart.

Clark Lea did an interview with 247 sports last offseason and he was asked about length at the LB position and it's relevance to recruiting. He basically said, that they will recruit a 6' LB if they think he can play but they will not recruit a room full of 6' LB's because it limits the upside of the room. Time for Tommy and company to do the same. Have to start pushing the room into a physical profile that has more upside. You can do that with size, athleticism, arm strength, etc. but it needs to be done. If you cannot develop those guys then you shouldn't have a job.

Jurkovec was everything you describe but it didn't work out with him and Tommy. It sounds to me like Tommy is just comfortable with QB's who share similar traits to his own, perhaps thats due to his inexperience maybe? i don't know, I am just going by own coaching experience in HS Sports but starting out i found it very much easier to connect and motivate with the kids i saw as being "like me" but with time you learn what works with different people regardless of the differences between you.

 

[Irish Man3]

Jurkovec was everything you describe but it didn't work out with him and Tommy. It sounds to me like Tommy is just comfortable with QB's who share similar traits to his own, perhaps thats due to his inexperience maybe? i don't know, I am just going by own coaching experience in HS Sports but starting out i found it very much easier to connect and motivate with the kids i saw as being "like me" but with time you learn what works with different people regardless of the differences between you.

Jurkovec was a product of the issues with Chip Long, not Tommy.

 

[stpeteirish]

Chip Kelly? Do we need a comma?

 

[Dale]

Jurkovec was everything you describe but it didn't work out with him and Tommy. It sounds to me like Tommy is just comfortable with QB's who share similar traits to his own, perhaps thats due to his inexperience maybe? i don't know, I am just going by own coaching experience in HS Sports but starting out i found it very much easier to connect and motivate with the kids i saw as being "like me" but with time you learn what works with different people regardless of the differences between you.

I don’t get the Tommy is comfortable with QBs like him thing. Book is and was better than Phil. I don’t think it’s more complicated than that. Angeli is bigger and has a much stronger arm. He’s the closest of our 4 offers and they aren’t really similar. Buchner is a complete different QB. Pyne is the only one who somewhat fits that stereotype post Book

 

[BobbyMac]

Book is and was better than Phil.

Do you think that's how the world will look at it in 2023?

 

[BeauBenken]

I did see posted on r/cfb something I hadn't seen before, and that is within a 3 game span this past year, Allar threw 9 interceptions. That is a bit of a red flag if true.

 

[BobbyMac]

I did see posted on r/cfb something I hadn't seen before, and that is within a 3 game span this past year, Allar threw 9 interceptions. That is a bit of a red flag if true.

I think it was 7 Int's in his first two games and he threw 2 more the rest of the season. Some guy from his hometown posted it and said he was fighting an injury coming out of camp.

No doubt his full film didn't impress Tommy as much as his highlights.

 

[BeauBenken]

I think it was 7 Int's in his first two games and he threw 2 more the rest of the season. Some guy from his hometown posted it and said he was fighting an injury coming out of camp.

No doubt his full film didn't impress Tommy as much as his highlights.

Ahh. Gotcha.

 

[NDdomer2]

Do you think that's how the world will look at it in 2023?

this, im assuming, is you projecting PJ to ball out the next two years?

 

[Dale]

Do you think that's how the world will look at it in 2023?

Yes.

does it matter though? A 2023 state in relation to a 2019/2020 QB battle?

 

[PANDFAN]

.

 

[Rogue219]

Do you think that's how the world will look at it in 2023?

My preference is that ND win a National Championship by then, and in that instance, I won't give a shit and I doubt anyone else will either.

 

[BobbyMac]

this, im assuming, is you projecting PJ to ball out the next two years?

I'm not projecting him to ball out necessarily. I do think he'll get better than 2020 which was his first year in a new scheme and his first time being QB1 in 2.5 yrs.

 

[BobbyMac]

Yes.

Does it matter though? A 2023 state in relation to a 2019/2020 QB battle?

I won't argue Book won the QB battle when Phil was here. So I agree with the "was".

The "is" will be determined.

I could see Phil on a couple of 9-4/10-3 teams throwing for 3500-ish yds and being a high draft pick.

If I had to put money on it, I'd say it's most likely the majority of ND fans will look back and say Phil was the better prospect and turned out to be the better QB. He & ND Football were simply a victim of timing and the relationship he had with some of the staff.

Does it matter? I hope not. Hopefully Coan does balls out this year and ND sneaks into the playoffs with its favorable schedule.

In '22, hopefully Buchner's good enough to beat Ohio St, Clemson and a loaded (if not well coached) SC.

So it may not ever matter one way or the other but I'm sure it'll be debated plenty over the next 5 years.

 

[BobbyMac]

My preference is that ND win a National Championship by then, and in that instance, I won't give a shit and I doubt anyone else will either.

'24's your first chance. I'm not sure Bama wins a NC having to play:

Ohio St

Clemson

SC

Bama / Clemson / Ohio St / Georgia / Oklahoma / SC / Texas

Bama / Clemson / Ohio St / Georgia / Oklahoma / SC / Texas

 

[clashmore_mike]

Committed to Penn State

 

[IrishLion]

Penn State is gross.

 

[BeauBenken]

BTW, I know we haven't had the best success at producing NFL QBs in recent years, but literally who can PSU hang their hats on? Isn't Kerry Collins probably their most successful NFL QB ever? That's very just...bleh.

 

[NDdomer2]

BTW, I know we haven't had the best success at producing NFL QBs in recent years, but literally who can PSU hang their hats on? Isn't Kerry Collins probably their most successful NFL QB ever? That's very just...bleh.

The last few cycles havent really landed them anything spectacular at the position but they have a hell of a haul this year with Allar and Pribula. (they have a nice class going so far in general)

 

[Rogue219]

'24's your first chance. I'm not sure Bama wins a NC having to play:

Ohio St

Clemson

SC

Bama / Clemson / Ohio St / Georgia / Oklahoma / SC / Texas

Bama / Clemson / Ohio St / Georgia / Oklahoma / SC / Texas

I won't be thinking about Book or Jurkovec.

 

[Luckylucci]

And I think this might make it sting a little more than usual. PSU over ND? Tommy’s handling of the situation doesn’t help but who in there right minds want to be QB1 at Pedo State over ND.

 

[rtrn2glory]

And I think this might make it sting a little more than usual. PSU over ND? Tommy’s handling of the situation doesn’t help but who in there right minds want to be QB1 at Pedo State over ND.

Yea, until I'm proven wrong, this is going to go down as a recruiting hiccup that was not handled well.