2023 - State of the Recruiting Class

[KPENN]

I’m far from a fanboy but It’s not like Tommy had a 5 star QB give a commitment and then back out.

 

[stlnd01]

It's definitely not an ideal 2023 QB situation - but I think even if CJ Carr stays 2024 - there's a good argument for no **high school QB

2023 boiled down;
TOP TIER - Dante Moore - anyone else that's "elite" - picked one, LOST - this is the failure of the class. But it happened and its realistically over for the top.

OTHER QB's - From Minchey to Luke Duncan; all these players are crapshoots at the position.

As a staff the question has to arise; Do any of these possible late additions/flips get us closer to a championship than Buchner and Angeli? (and Pyne with 3 more possible years - but respectfully not driving a decision). If it's probably not and we're relying on Rees/staff evaluations of their current guys here, why take one?

However, if they take none, better sure as shit get into that transfer portal to grab one and a good one.

Two thoughts:

- Class of '23 recruiting and "do we take a transfer" really don't have much to do with one another. We need someone who can (hopefully) raise the ceiling of our QB room next season and (certainly) compete for the starting job with Pyne and/or Buchner. Given our limitations on incoming transfers that's almost certainly going to be a grad transfer/5Y. Not whoever is our '23 QB commit. Our '23 QB commit, ideally, should not even see the field next season. Just develop.

- It's weird but most of our best QBs in recent years have been guys you wouldn't expect on paper as recruits to have been difference-makers. Kizer. Book. Even apparently Pyne (at the moment). I think that's an argument for taking a QB in every class, even if they're not a "stud," and seeing who emerges. If they don't pan out or raise the ceiling, OK. But the alternative is too many eggs in too few baskets. You never know what three-star clipboard holder might turn into the program's all-time winningest quarterback.

 

[Irish du Nord]

How much is Rees to blame for Dante though? He got the commitment, just too bad Dad took the Nike bag

 

[Irish4life]

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but are we sure we’d get a better QB in the grad transfer market then Pyne? If he even is just solid against Clemson/USC, I think Pyne is the bridge QB to CJ.

If Pyne keeps this up, he's 100% the starting QB. No ifs ands or buts. He's playing at a borderline elite level right now.

 

[arrowryan]

How much is Rees to blame for Dante though? He got the commitment, just too bad Dad took the Nike bag

How committed is a kid if he won't go public with his decision?

Freeman and Rees completely shut down QB recruiting; they stopped recruiting Chris Vizzina. It ended up back firing in the worst way possible. We're sitting here in October with literally nothing.

Freeman and Rees botched it so bad. All we can hope for is that they learned a valuable lesson from this.

 

[CanadalovesND]

How much is Rees to blame for Dante though? He got the commitment, just too bad Dad took the Nike bag

I think it's more along the lines that Rees didn't reach out to other quarterbacks as Moore was taking other visits. I understand that they were all pretty much committed at that point, but it didn't seem that he established any backup option. But, in his defense, I don't think ND really has that luxury compared to a few other programs. Like Bama, they took two top 10 QBs, but were still all in on Arch Manning.

Rees did look into Novosad & Minchey after the fact, but nothing materialized past either an offer or visit, or both.

Rees just needs to take this as a learning experience. Most other years his strategy would have been fine, but NIL just corrupted that.

 

[Dale]

Rees didn't reach out to other quarterbacks as Moore was taking other visits.

He did. His name is CJ Carr. Secure Carr was the first step taken after losing Moore. What comes of Carr in 2023 or someone else in 2023 or 2024 is the question. But there was a post Moore plan, it was CJ Carr.

 

[benneboy]

If Pyne keeps this up, he's 100% the starting QB. No ifs ands or buts. He's playing at a borderline elite level right now.

People don't want to hear that because it doesn't fit their narrative. He's playing great. We'll see if he can maintain that.

 

[ColinKSU]

Arrow’s post above is 100% correct rational evaluation IMO. Do you agree?

I do! He does deserve credit for the good recruiting. And I’m happy to give him that. Feel free to look back at my history - I’ve given him credit for successful recruiting efforts and play calls when he deserved it.

His problem is when he misses, he misses in potentially disastrous ways, not “eh, win some, lose some”. Notre Dame is going to feel how badly he missed at WR for at least another season, if not two more. And you can’t leave this class without a QB because you *have* to protect the team at the most important position on the field by giving yourself as many swings at the plate as possible.

We get it, you don’t lime Tommy. Jfc

I don’t! I think Notre Dame can do much better at OC than Tommy Rees, and I hope they do.

How's Pyne played since he's taken over at QB?

Do you think Drew’s the guy to get them over the top? Because his ceiling is Ian Book - and that's a pretty good QB!

And I *like* Drew - go back and check my history because I thought he was going to start at Ohio State over Buchner. But we should probably ask why the staff saw both and went with Buchner.

 

[CanadalovesND]

He did. His name is CJ Carr. Secure Carr was the first step taken after losing Moore. What comes of Carr in 2023 or someone else in 2023 or 2024 is the question. But there was a post Moore plan, it was CJ Carr.

Yes, he did reach out to Carr. And that was an amazing recovery.

 

[arrowryan]

I do! He does deserve credit for the good recruiting. And I’m happy to give him that.

His problem is when he misses, he misses in potentially disastrous ways, not “eh, win some, lose some”. Notre Dame is going to feel how badly he missed at WR for at least another season, if not two more.


I don’t! I think Notre Dame can do much better than Tommy Rees, and I hope they do.

That was just as much, probably more, Brian Kelly's and Del Alexander's fault.

 

[CanadalovesND]

I do! He does deserve credit for the good recruiting. And I’m happy to give him that.

His problem is when he misses, he misses in potentially disastrous ways, not “eh, win some, lose some”. Notre Dame is going to feel how badly he missed at WR for at least another season, if not two more.


I don’t! I think Notre Dame can do much better at OC than Tommy Rees, and I hope they do.

I think Freeman knows to grab WRs transfer this off-season. I don't think WR will all be that bad next year. If Styles continues to improve, Thomas shows more growth, and Colzie and Merriweather get on the field, I feel that we could actually have more confidence in the top 3 WRs than we did at the start of this season. Grab one or two in the portal to add depth and/or starting talent, and we will be fine.

Also, something neat: potentially all seven of ND's offensive skills players may enroll early. Flores & Greathouse are for-sure EEs, while James, Edwards & Lyons are working towards that. Limar and Love are EEs, too. I asked Ryan Roberts about the early enrollments last night on one of his recruiting mailbag podcasts, and he layed it out for me.

 

[NDdomer2]

I will say, the group of QB's that Rees offered and/or got on campus for the 2023 class is impressive.

Nico Iamaleava 5*
Dante Moore 5*
Jackson Arnold 5*
Chris Vizzina 5*
Avery Johnson 4*
Austin Novosad 4*

All of these guys made it to campus in some fashion. I don't recall anything like this is recent history.

We can talk about closing, we can talk about the decision making on how they played Moore/Vizzina. Or if a reclassfication from Carr changes our view.

I still think this is the best "starting" group that any OC has got on campus.

We all want QB position to be "fixed" immediately, but it has to start somewhere and thats getting interest and getting them on campus. We made some strides, IMO.

 

[NDMatt91]

If Pyne keeps this up, he's 100% the starting QB. No ifs ands or buts. He's playing at a borderline elite level right now.

I like the way Pyne is playing, but we should still try and bring in the best grad transfer QB possible. That doesn't mean the transfer will be the starting QB next year. Maybe Pyne continues to improve.

 

[Irish4life]

I do! He does deserve credit for the good recruiting. And I’m happy to give him that. Feel free to look back at my history - I’ve given him credit for successful recruiting efforts and play calls when he deserved it.

His problem is when he misses, he misses in potentially disastrous ways, not “eh, win some, lose some”. Notre Dame is going to feel how badly he missed at WR for at least another season, if not two more. And you can’t leave this class without a QB because you *have* to protect the team at the most important position on the field by giving yourself as many swings at the plate as possible.


I don’t! I think Notre Dame can do much better at OC than Tommy Rees, and I hope they do.


Do you think Drew’s the guy to get them over the top? Because his ceiling is Ian Book - and that's a pretty good QB!

And I *like* Drew - go back and check my history because I thought he was going to start at Ohio State over Buchner. But we should probably ask why the staff saw both and went with Buchner.

You did not like Drew lmao you were saying he was going to start because you were trying to say that Tommy Rees only started QBs like him.

 

[Irish4life]

I like the way Pyne is playing, but we should still try and bring in the best grad transfer QB possible. That doesn't mean the transfer will be the starting QB next year. Maybe Pyne continues to improve.

If Pyne keeps this up we don't need a grad transfer. He's completing 73% of his passes, averaging 7.9 YPA, and has a 4.5:1 TD:INT ratio (8:1 as a starter). That's borderline elite production.

 

[fightingirish26]

I will say, the group of QB's that Rees offered and/or got on campus for the 2023 class is impressive.

Nico Iamaleava 5*
Dante Moore 5*
Jackson Arnold 5*
Chris Vizzina 5*
Avery Johnson 4*
Austin Novosad 4*

All of these guys made it to campus in some fashion. I don't recall anything like this is recent history.

We can talk about closing, we can talk about the decision making on how they played Moore/Vizzina. Or if a reclassfication from Carr changes our view.

I still think this is the best "starting" group that any OC has got on campus.

We all want QB position to be "fixed" immediately, but it has to start somewhere and thats getting interest and getting them on campus. We made some strides, IMO.

Hand Rees the getting qbs to campus award

 

[stlnd01]

If Pyne keeps this up we don't need a grad transfer. He's completing 73% of his passes, averaging 7.9 YPA, and has a 4.5:1 TD:INT ratio (8:1 as a starter). That's borderline elite production.

Pyne is playing tremendously. But maybe let's see how we fare against an actually good defense before naming him the starter next year.

 

[ColinKSU]

You did not like Drew lmao you were saying he was going to start because you were trying to say that Tommy Rees only started QBs like him.

He does! I wasn’t trying to say anything! That’s his comfort zone as a coach through however many years he’s been here!

He broke tendency with Buchner - which was a good decision! I’m complimenting him for breaking tendency!

But it resulted in two miserable offensive performances where Buchner running was the entire offense and he got a season ending shoulder injury because of it. Kid got sacrificed to the football gods and who knows what the rest of his career will look like.

 

[Irish4life]

To add to the conversation on Pyne, his ADOT (average depth of target) is 6.2, which is 2nd to last in the power 5 (only DTR of UCLA is lower at 5.6) and 140th out of 144 qualified QBs.

 

[CanadalovesND]

To add to the conversation on Pyne, his ADOT (average depth of target) is 6.2, which is 2nd to last in the power 5 (only DTR of UCLA is lower at 5.6) and 140th out of 144 qualified QBs.

Curious to know what that stat looks like after the last two games. It was something like 2.6 vs Cal.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Curious to know what that stat looks like after the last two games. It was something like 2.6 vs Cal.

It was straight abysmal in Cal. Pete Sampson was saying something like his Average Depth of Completion in that game was 0.3


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Irish4life]

Curious to know what that stat looks like after the last two games. It was something like 2.6 vs Cal.

ADOT of 8.9 vs UNC, ADOT of 6.0 vs BYU

All stats per PFF

 

[FOTY977]

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but are we sure we’d get a better QB in the grad transfer market then Pyne? If he even is just solid against Clemson/USC, I think Pyne is the bridge QB to CJ.

No, but you need multiple high ceiling guys competing for the job year in and year out if ND wants to take the next step and have a real shot at winning playoff games. Right now we’re scary close to seeing RP3 taking the helm.

 

[ColinKSU]

No, but you need multiple high ceiling guys competing for the job year in and year out if ND wants to take the next step and have a real shot at winning playoff games. Right now we’re scary close to seeing RP3 taking the helm.

Please don’t speak that into existence.

 

[luckofirish8]

Right now we’re scary close to seeing RP3 taking the helm.

The good news is there is still time for him to win 4 Heisman's, right?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Bunch of whiny bitches up in here. This has to be the most complete recruiting class I've ever seen if they get any run of the mill QB. IF they get a Carr reclassification, and add Love and Lyons, this is a class for the ages. We'll be talking about this class for a long time because of it's top shelf talent, immediate contributors and depth.

Some of your really need to do some class comparisons from the past 10-12 years to see what this class represents. We have more speed in this class than any two classes from prior years. We have a few guys running 10.3-10.5s. I don't know who the fastest guy in the class is but Dylan Edwards, Micah Bell, Peyton Bowen or perhaps someone else? One of the WRs? Love?

The staff is doing an incredible job on building ND towards a title. Sorry it's not fast enough for you but stop and smell the roses.

 

[benneboy]

Adot is not a barometer for success. You know who led the NFL in adot? Jemarcus Russell. Drew Brees was always near the bottom.

Colt McCoy's I'd guess was pretty low in college and think he's one of the best Qbs to ever do it at that level.

 

[Dale]

Adot is not a barometer for success. You know who led the NFL in adot? Jemarcus Russell. Drew Brees was always near the bottom.

Colt McCoy's I'd guess was pretty low in college and think he's one of the best Qbs to ever do it at that level.

I don’t think he was suggesting it was, but there is really only two reasons to throw a ton of short passes, either you can’t throw longer or the scheme doesn’t ask you too (ex Miss St). I’d say Pyne/ND has elements of both

 

[Irish4life]

Adot is not a barometer for success. You know who led the NFL in adot? Jemarcus Russell. Drew Brees was always near the bottom.

Colt McCoy's I'd guess was pretty low in college and think he's one of the best Qbs to ever do it at that level.

It's not a barometer but there is something that we can glean from this information. Pyne's company at the bottom of the ADOT board is UConn's QB, FIU's QB, Marshall's QB (lowest in FBS), DTR (very good college QB), and Will Rogers (good air raid QB). IMO it means that he has to maintain ~70% completion percentage to be an effective passer, or be a DTR who's also an extremely deadly run threat. Thus far, Pyne has been accurate and effective. Will that continue? Will teams be able to squeeze the life out of our pass game? How will he respond to the run game being taken away? All TBD.