2018 Northwestern Post Game

NDohio

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I missed the start of the game... I don't even want to know how dafaq this happened......

Was that the absolutely horrible offensive pass interference call on Boykin?

I almost always give the officials the benefit of the doubt but that was one of the worst officiated games in a long time.
 

ab2cmiller

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Was that the absolutely horrible offensive pass interference call on Boykin?

I almost always give the officials the benefit of the doubt but that was one of the worst officiated games in a long time.

I had zero problem with the offensive pass interference call on Boykin.

The defender wasn't exactly in press coverage, Contact was initiated about two yards off the line of scrimmage and continued for about another 2 to 3 yards.

Probably could've gotten away with it with no penalty, but then Boykin extends his arms and pushes the defender off about 4 to 5 yards off the line of scrimmage.
 

Ndaccountant

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I had zero problem with the offensive pass interference call on Boykin.

The defender wasn't exactly in press coverage, Contact was initiated about two yards off the line of scrimmage and continued for about another 2 to 3 yards.

Probably could've gotten away with it with no penalty, but then Boykin extends his arms and pushes the defender off about 4 to 5 yards off the line of scrimmage.

If they want to call that, fine. But then they should have called the PI on NW when Boykin was clearly held on the play before.
 

RDU Irish

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Would love to see the Fitz/Tillery grab highlighted somewhere - good gawd if Kelly did that he would be ejected for sure and fired by the end of the night.

This holding on our D-line is beyond ridiculous. Virtually every play there is a bad hold and hardly any have been called all year. Is there some bad inside joke out there on ND being perpetrated by CFB officials at large? Feel like I need to invest in some tinfoil hats. In the officials' defense - they were pretty awful both ways particularly in some of the spots and first down calls, etc.

Mustifer's false starts - I didn't see shit and even when the TV crew tried to find one they couldn't. Maddening and expect much more out of someone I was hoping for an All American campaign out of. OL communication seems lacking but hard to bitch too much with all the inexperience (including Book) growing up in front of us. Can't help but cry over the thought of this team with Harry Heistand still lording over the OL.

Offensive playcalling is equal parts maddening and awesome. All the dives up the middle I can only hope are setting up something else b/c even I could see we were cramming in to a loaded box. Is Book not getting an option to pass in those cases or what? Did it really take until halftime to realize tempo would neuter these guys? At the same point - some amazing second half work that was a thing of beauty. Feel like we take our foot off the gas with any two score lead which leads to-

STYLE POINTS - is BK allergic to them or something? A large reason we are not respected more is b/c we play so damn conservative once we have a lead and don't run up the score like it feels like we should be able to do. We would never hang 70 on anyone but dammit if FSU shouldn't be afraid of just that.
 

RDU Irish

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As for Bama - they are at 11 or 12 on the 10 point scale. Clemson, ND, UGA, OSU and OK are the only ones I would put in the "elite" scale - to me you have to sustain a bit. OSU is way down but gets some benefit of the doubt. Michigan hasn't really proven shit and LSU is a pretender propped up by Auburn and Miami being Top 10 when they played skewing the reality that they are both not even Top 25 squads now. Clemson and Bama both have played nobody - a full month for either of them to prepare will be a big problem for their opponents.
 

stlnd01

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Would love to see the Fitz/Tillery grab highlighted somewhere - good gawd if Kelly did that he would be ejected for sure and fired by the end of the night.

This holding on our D-line is beyond ridiculous. Virtually every play there is a bad hold and hardly any have been called all year. Is there some bad inside joke out there on ND being perpetrated by CFB officials at large? Feel like I need to invest in some tinfoil hats. In the officials' defense - they were pretty awful both ways particularly in some of the spots and first down calls, etc.

Mustifer's false starts - I didn't see shit and even when the TV crew tried to find one they couldn't. Maddening and expect much more out of someone I was hoping for an All American campaign out of. OL communication seems lacking but hard to bitch too much with all the inexperience (including Book) growing up in front of us. Can't help but cry over the thought of this team with Harry Heistand still lording over the OL.
.

There were a lot of bad missed holds. Is this just what it’s like when you have legit pass rushers?

I think the false start on Mustipher was a misidentification. When they showed the replay, he didn’t most the ball, but it looked like the right tackle jumped a little.
 

Bishop2b5

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This holding on our D-line is beyond ridiculous. Virtually every play there is a bad hold and hardly any have been called all year. Is there some bad inside joke out there on ND being perpetrated by CFB officials at large? Feel like I need to invest in some tinfoil hats. In the officials' defense - they were pretty awful both ways particularly in some of the spots and first down calls, etc.

The OL can use their hands and hold as long as their hands are basically inside, between their shoulders. Even so, there's still holding on every single play. It just depends on how tight the refs want to call it. Sorta like the strike zone in baseball, it's not so much about where it is or what they call as long as they call it consistently and fairly for both sides.
 

RDU Irish

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There were a lot of bad missed holds. Is this just what it’s like when you have legit pass rushers?

I think the false start on Mustipher was a misidentification. When they showed the replay, he didn’t most the ball, but it looked like the right tackle jumped a little.

He got dinged twice, only second one did they try to diagnose it in the broadcast and gave up quickly to keep up with the game. Neither looked like much and they were speculating he shuffled the ball or something.

As for pass rushers - seems like when I watch other games the super talents get a few calls per game while our guys are ignored. If you aren't holding you aren't trying - but when guys are good it stands out so much more b/c they are harder to control.
 

RDU Irish

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The OL can use their hands and hold as long as their hands are basically inside, between their shoulders. Even so, there's still holding on every single play. It just depends on how tight the refs want to call it. Sorta like the strike zone in baseball, it's not so much about where it is or what they call as long as they call it consistently and fairly for both sides.

No opinon on how blatant and frequent it is within the context of ND? As a general statement I would make to my kids I agree with you completely. IMO, it has been far from consistent or fair. You cannot watch that NW game and say they committed 0 penalties to our 8 or whatever.

I think our OL holds less than most teams and exponentially less than our opponents this year. Not a good thing as I think we should "try harder" in that sense and force the flags if they aren't calling it the other way. Would be interesting to see total holds called on us compared to those called on opponents. Wouldn't doubt if we were 2:1, mostly b/c it hardly gets called on opponents.

At this point I would bring 50 break-away jerseys for 42 and 53 in particular - I mean theirs have just been the worst and feels like every damn play, IMO.
 

Bishop2b5

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No opinon on how blatant and frequent it is within the context of ND? As a general statement I would make to my kids I agree with you completely. IMO, it has been far from consistent or fair. You cannot watch that NW game and say they committed 0 penalties to our 8 or whatever.

I haven't seen the ND-NW game so I can't offer an informed opinion on what happened. I know it is frustrating when you feel the refs aren't calling things even handedly.
 

IrishLion

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I haven't seen the ND-NW game so I can't offer an informed opinion on what happened. I know it is frustrating when you feel the refs aren't calling things even handedly.

Nah, this isn't homerism or green-shaded glasses. I didn't appreciate the idea of bitching about missed calls until this season.

After watching Kareem get at least three of his sacks despite blatant holds, and after watching Jerry Tillery flail his arms in frustration as a guard tackles him by the shoulder and from behind at least five times, and not seeing a single holding flag thrown, I get it now.

This year is an aberration, and it's different. I'm not sure if ND's coaches aren't doing a good enough job with their pregame conversations with officials, or if officials are suddenly more lax on holding in general, or if it's just rotten luck that officials are looking in the wrong places at the exact wrong moments... but it's been bad.

Bad enough that every ND beat guy have started to address it, and they're the ones usually asking fans to step off the soapbox about officiating.
 

RDU Irish

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I haven't seen the ND-NW game so I can't offer an informed opinion on what happened. I know it is frustrating when you feel the refs aren't calling things even handedly.

Thanks for chiming in on the ND/NW post-game thread then. Must have been all that obnoxious Bama talk in here that brought you in like a moth to flame.


Would be great if someone counted up the number of holds called individually on Okwara and Kareem and then put together montages of the worst holds on them. Would tweet the shit out of that.
 

BobbyMac

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For those that were asking/mentioning about the coulda been targeting play on Armstrong, here it is and you make the call.

It looks like what we called a normal football not long ago but this is 10x worse than what Devin White got rang up for and was forced to miss 1st half of Bama.

Northwestern would have been in a B1G hole had Paddy Fisher gotten kicked out for the rest of the game.

Supposedly there was another one on Kmet that set up the 1st and 5 that turned into a missed 44 yd FG. Haven't seen the replay yet.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NotreDame</a> WR Miles Boykin (81) with a beauty of a crackback block on Northwestern LB Blake Gallagher. <a href="https://t.co/6vsHQNolSp">pic.twitter.com/6vsHQNolSp</a></p>— Matt Freeman (@mattfreemanISD) <a href="https://twitter.com/mattfreemanISD/status/1059241908793470976?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Bishop2b5

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Thanks for chiming in on the ND/NW post-game thread then. Must have been all that obnoxious Bama talk in here that brought you in like a moth to flame.

I made a general observation about officiating that wasn't derogatory towards ND in any way. No need to be a dick in response to that.
 

Irish YJ

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I mean, what do you expect Kelly to say, "Yeah Bama are notorious cheaters and scumbags"?

He's not going to lay into Alabama and their exploits. It's not his place to and any attempt to would just come off as envious and being a sore sport anyways. It wouldn't benefit him or ND to call them out. They cheat. They do, period. To say they don't, not only ignores the landscape of powerhouse SEC football programs, but ignores Alabama's entire football history, which is saturated in cheating and scandal. They are one of the dirtiest programs in the history of the sport.

That being said, Alabama just plays the game the way many football factory programs do. They have the bag men, they have the non-existent academic curriculum, etc. This isn't any different than what other big-time programs do, they just do it better than anyone else. They've got the best combination to succeed in today's CFB world. They're a program willing to do any means necessary for the sake of winning. They'll pay the best coach above top dollar to come to Bama and pay him a king's ransom to stay forever; They'll invest hundreds of millions of dollars on top of the line facilities and equipment; They'll pull strings to make sure their athletes are able to invest most, if not all of their time in the day to football-related functions; And yes, they'll do all the devious things to land the best recruits in the nation.

Nick Saban may be honorable, but Alabama is certainly not. On the flip side, what major football factory is honorable these days? It's a very dirty business and ND is one of very VERY few that play the game as cleanly as remotely possible.

BK did not have to use the words he did. He could have been coach-speak correct without the honorable or "doing it right" comments. Like I said, they are just exploiting things better than anyone else. In short, I hate Bama in general, but don't hate them for using the system to their advantage, and doing better than everyone else. A lot of other teams do the same shit and worse, but still can't out-Bama Bama.

It is apples and oranges. If Bama is elite, no one else is. Take Bama out of the equation and discuss.

Exactly. I did say they skew things, and ruin the curve for everyone. Unfortunately you can't take them out of the equation. Unfortunately.... We'll all have to wait till Saban gets tired of coaching.

To the bold. ND can compete with the top teams in the sport. Right now I don't think anyone can compete with the top team in the sport. So, that is kinda my point. If the definition of elite is what Bama is right now then no, ND is not elite. If being able to play competitively with the top ten teams in college football, then yes, ND is elite.

Again, if it's just a comparison to Alabama, then every college football team this year should have a no result in that poll.

But also, we are talking about ND fans here. Of course it would be no. This is the most battered fan base in the country and we as fans lack confidence in the Irish no matter how good they are.

I guess my overall point to the naysayers of ND being elite is that I honestly and truly believe that this team can play against anyone named Alabama. It's very similar to 2012. If ND plays any other team in that national title game it would have a been a good game with ND having a real chance to have gotten another title. Plus I think this team is more balanced and overall better than ND 2012. Unfortunately so is Bama...

Take Bama out of the equation for the sake of conversation and to reset the elite curve. I think this is a down year for many of the typical A1 teams, and/or parity has reached an almost all time high. Clemson is starting to look like a world beater with the switch at QB. While they haven't played a bunch of top teams, they are destroying who they play. If they played Cuse or TAMU again (their closest games), I'd bet they'd destroy them now that Lawrence has the reigns.

Without Bama, I think most would probably say Clemson looks like the 10, and most others are a spot or two behind. I do agree ND would have a chance, but think we'd be at least 10pt dogs to them, and that's probably generous.

2019 CFP rankings:

Bama






Clemson







ND/Michigan/Oklahoma/LSU/Etc.

Yup.
 

IrishLion

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For those that were asking/mentioning about the coulda been targeting play on Armstrong, here it is and you make the call.

It looks like what we called a normal football not long ago but this is 10x worse than what Devin White got rang up for and was forced to miss 1st half of Bama.

Northwestern would have been in a B1G hole had Paddy Fisher gotten kicked out for the rest of the game.

Supposedly there was another one on Kmet that set up the 1st and 5 that turned into a missed 44 yd FG. Haven't seen the replay yet.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NotreDame</a> WR Miles Boykin (81) with a beauty of a crackback block on Northwestern LB Blake Gallagher. <a href="https://t.co/6vsHQNolSp">pic.twitter.com/6vsHQNolSp</a></p>— Matt Freeman (@mattfreemanISD) <a href="https://twitter.com/mattfreemanISD/status/1059241908793470976?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I would've been happy had they called it because I'll take anything we can get, but as a football guy in general, there wasn't enough there IMO. The far more egregious part, IMO, was Fisher intentionally falling on Armstrong after they were out of bounds. You can literally see him check to see where he's at, and then he decides he should just collapse ass-first for no reason.

I also thought Gilman kind of got lucky on Northwestern's last offensive play of the game. There was no replay shown on the telecast, but the live action made it look like he made helmet-to-helmet contact on the stop. Had it been earlier in the game, I would've expected them to show several replays and then send it to review.
 

beryirish

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I would've been happy had they called it because I'll take anything we can get, but as a football guy in general, there wasn't enough there IMO. The far more egregious part, IMO, was Fisher intentionally falling on Armstrong after they were out of bounds. You can literally see him check to see where he's at, and then he decides he should just collapse ass-first for no reason.

I also thought Gilman kind of got lucky on Northwestern's last offensive play of the game. There was no replay shown on the telecast, but the live action made it look like he made helmet-to-helmet contact on the stop. Had it been earlier in the game, I would've expected them to show several replays and then send it to review.

I think by the definition it is considered targeting that was "missed" but yeah as a football fan I saw it as a clean tackle/push out of bounds.

I remember that play by Gillman. I remember saying hurry up to next play, hurry up to next play.
 

KizerWilhelm

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People who were at the game: was that the worst P5 stadium you've ever been at? Dinky to begin with, and had an absolutely horrendous time trying to use the bathroom, get food, etc. Couldn't see the jumbo screen with the camera tower set up. Clearly was not prepared for a large turnout.
 

Ndaccountant

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People who were at the game: was that the worst P5 stadium you've ever been at? Dinky to begin with, and had an absolutely horrendous time trying to use the bathroom, get food, etc. Couldn't see the jumbo screen with the camera tower set up. Clearly was not prepared for a large turnout.

Worst stadium I have ever visited. ND should not play there again. The atmosphere felt like bigger high school game. Tailgating was a joke. I honestly don't understand how the Big10 puts up with that place. The best part of the day (excluding the win) was spending time in downtown Evantston before the game.
 
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RDU Irish

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I made a general observation about officiating that wasn't derogatory towards ND in any way. No need to be a dick in response to that.

Grow a sack, Bish. I was making a bigger at the folks talking rankings non-stop in this thread than you. Be a little more playful and a little less fragile.

The holding has been a season long thing that just seems egregious. Any other game I watch, more than half of the "obvious" holds I see are called. With us, guys are literally being tackled frequently. Multiple games Kelly has commented and been asked about it - "we sent a lot of plays for review" type of comments. You have seen enough football this year, including ND football, to have a real opinion on it.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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I would've been happy had they called it because I'll take anything we can get, but as a football guy in general, there wasn't enough there IMO. The far more egregious part, IMO, was Fisher intentionally falling on Armstrong after they were out of bounds. You can literally see him check to see where he's at, and then he decides he should just collapse ass-first for no reason.

I also thought Gilman kind of got lucky on Northwestern's last offensive play of the game. There was no replay shown on the telecast, but the live action made it look like he made helmet-to-helmet contact on the stop. Had it been earlier in the game, I would've expected them to show several replays and then send it to review.

That was pretty blatant.
 

BobbyMac

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How is Iowa a 10 point favorite over NW?

Because they are exactly as good as ND. Duuuuuuu-uuuuuuuuuh.

I think this is a no brainer. NW's undefeated on the road. Iowa just had their shot at a west title ruined (most likely). Both teams will play D. 10 points is a ton to cover for Iowa
 

calvegas04

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Make statements in November."<br><br>ICON: Northwestern<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoIrish?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoIrish</a> ☘️ <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/uNDefeated?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#uNDefeated</a> <a href="https://t.co/NvfRAQFZPb">pic.twitter.com/NvfRAQFZPb</a></p>— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball/status/1059645527313149957?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 6, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Irish#1

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Watching that clip, the pass play from the end zone reminded me of the '73 Sugar Bowl when Ara called for a pass to Robin Weber that pretty much shut the door on Bama and sealed the NC. Very similar in design, just the opposite side of the field.
 
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