2016 Presidential Horse Race

[BobbyMac]

"... if you think this is the extent of Bernie's support among young Americans, you simply have not been paying attention. He is getting similar numbers with young people as Obama received with African American voters.

"... your boy Trump has seized your party by appealing to the hate that flows through its base. He's going to Make American Great Again -- calling for a time when young people, blacks, immigrants and women understood their place.

Are there actually polls that show 93-96% of "young people" are supporting Sanders. Could you share them?

Can you elaborate on who is "calling for a time..."?

 

[NorthDakota]

Are there actually polls that show 93-96% of "young people" are supporting Sanders. Could you share them?

Can you elaborate on who is "calling for a time..."?

....that number is a load of hot garbage regardless of if it is had a poll to back it up.

 

[BobbyMac]

....that number is a load of hot garbage regardless of if it is had a poll to back it up.

What number are you referring to Dakota?

 

[GoIrish41]

Are there actually polls that show 93-96% of "young people" are supporting Sanders. Could you share them?

Can you elaborate on who is "calling for a time..."?

This article cites a poll that Bernie has 84% of the youth vote to Hillary's 14%. Of course, it is the primaries and unfortunately, we aren't going to see what he could do in a national election.

Why Young Democrats Love Bernie Sanders | FiveThirtyEight

The "calling for a time" comment has to do with Trump's "Make America Great Again" theme that has run through his campaign. Going back in time to any period in American history, we will find that young people, women and minorities were marginalized. I don't think that simple point is even debatable. Young people were taught to obey and respect their elders, women were traditionally "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen," and minorities were treated, at best, with indifference if not outright contempt by those in power. I can't think of a time in this nation's history in which those groups held a higher degree of respect than they do today (which is a sad commentary). Returning to an earlier period is returning to the past.

 

[EddytoNow]

Oh, let me shorten it for you ... You are a dumbass!

Excellent response, and well-deserved considering what he believes is relevant and factual.

 

[BobbyMac]

This article cites a poll that Bernie has 84% of the youth vote to Hillary's 14%. Of course, it is the primaries and unfortunately, we aren't going to see what he could do in a national election.

Why Young Democrats Love Bernie Sanders | FiveThirtyEight

The "calling for a time" comment has to do with Trump's "Make America Great Again" theme that has run through his campaign. Going back in time to any period in American history, we will find that young people, women and minorities were marginalized. I don't think that simple point is even debatable. Young people were taught to obey and respect their elders, women were traditionally "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen," and minorities were treated, at best, with indifference if not outright contempt by those in power. I can't think of a time in this nation's history in which those groups held a higher degree of respect than they do today (which is a sad commentary). Returning to an earlier period is returning to the past.

Both of your arguments are flawed. Bernie does not have 90+% or even the 84% of all "young people's" support. Just 84% of Democrats in that story. He'd be lucky to carry 66% if he were to get the nomination. That is not comparable to the support the President received from black voters in '08 or '12.

Making America great again doesn't mean resetting cultural attitudes to the post war America. If I say I'm going to "Make my car great again" and proceed to get a paint job or a new engine, it changes the appearance or performance... it does not reset the odometer.

 

[pkt77242]

Sound bite nation - if we are going to ignore resumes you might as well opt for entertainment value.

Next up, American Idol style Presidential Elections.

 

[pkt77242]

I may kick myself for doing this, but I have to ask why "stuff like this" makes you like the guy enough to vote for him as POTUS. Is it just this petty name-calling, childish demeanor that attracts you, or are there more serious reasons you feel he's capable in this role?

To be perfectly honest, while yea it's funny to make a joke about Warren's claim to her heritage (while not entirely proven nor disproven), his 'comebacks' to her epic rants on why he's a terrible candidate completely, and totally fall short. She's drilled him on key points time and time again, and his best comeback is to call her Pocahontas...and you guys can't seem to get enough of it. Makes zero sense to me.

Yep, people might as well vote for

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Excellent response, and well-deserved considering what he believes is relevant and factual.

You were suppose to say. Oh shit nice BERN. Such disappoint you are.

 

[IrishLax]

I have never, ever understood the love people have for Warren. So many of my peers LOVE her... I see a shameless con artist.

Elizabeth Warren is your classic extreme leftist faux-victim... she invented being "Native American" because that's way more hipster than just being white. She was Rachel Dolezal before there was Rachel Dolezal, opportunistically lying about her heritage and race to advance herself. She leveraged being "Native American" for Ivy League pity points while at Harvard.

Trump calling out Warren's BS is maybe the only thing he's done so far that I outright applaud.

Is Elizabeth Warren Native American or What? - The Atlantic

 

[Irish#1]

That article made me laugh at how ridiculous of a claim that is. My wife is blonde with blue eyes. Her deceased grandfather was supposed to have Cherokee blood in him (no one could say how much), making her part Cherokee. My wife has never thought once that she was Cherokee or had any type of connection to call herself a part of the respective tribe.

 

[EddytoNow]

I have never, ever understood the love people have for Warren. So many of my peers LOVE her... I see a shameless con artist.

Elizabeth Warren is your classic extreme leftist faux-victim... she invented being "Native American" because that's way more hipster than just being white. She was Rachel Dolezal before there was Rachel Dolezal, opportunistically lying about her heritage and race to advance herself. She leveraged being "Native American" for Ivy League pity points while at Harvard.

Trump calling out Warren's BS is maybe the only thing he's done so far that I outright applaud.

Is Elizabeth Warren Native American or What? - The Atlantic

Isn't this the same Trump that claims to be Christian? He denigrates Hispanics, cultivates the support of racists, mocks women, ridicules a former P.O.W., and claims to be a follower of Christ. Somehow I can't picture Christ exhibiting any of the behavior characteristics that are so much a part of Trump, the man.

I'd rather have someone relying upon misinformation passed down in her family as part of the family's folklore than someone who claims to be a Christian and lives his life in such an un-Christian manner. Elizabeth Warren may or may not have a small fraction of Cherokee blood running through her veins. Either way, her actions exhibit her admiration of the Cherokee and their traditions.

Trump's actions show only disdain and ridicule for anyone that is not Trump. Republicans, who want a future in politics, would do well to distance themselves from the spewer of hate. There will be national elections after 2016 and having your name closely tied to Trump will not be an asset.

So Elizabeth Warren may not have a distant Native American ancestor. Trump claims to be a Republican. You don't have to go back 200 years to prove that Trump is not giving it to you straight. Do Trump's followers really believe that Trump gives a **** about them? He cares about one thing, himself. He's a modern-day snake-oil salesman.

 

[IrishLax]

Isn't this the same Trump that claims to be Christian? He denigrates Hispanics, cultivates the support of racists, mocks women, ridicules a former P.O.W., and claims to be a follower of Christ. Somehow I can't picture Christ exhibiting any of the behavior characteristics that are so much a part of Trump, the man.

You clearly missed the part where I don't like Trump, don't defend Trump, and stated "this is the only thing he's done I've ever liked."

So I'm not sure who you're lecturing at.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Both of your arguments are flawed. Bernie does not have 90+% or even the 84% of all "young people's" support. Just 84% of Democrats in that story. He'd be lucky to carry 66% if he were to get the nomination. That is not comparable to the support the President received from black voters in '08 or '12.

Making America great again doesn't mean resetting cultural attitudes to the post war America. If I say I'm going to "Make my car great again" and proceed to get a paint job or a new engine, it changes the appearance or performance... it does not reset the odometer.

Yup. I don't like Trump and I didn't want him to win the nomination, but I don't think his plan is to take America back to 1958.

 

[BobbyMac]

Isn't this the same Trump that claims to be Christian? He denigrates Hispanics, cultivates the support of racists, mocks women, ridicules a former P.O.W., and claims to be a follower of Christ. Somehow I can't picture Christ exhibiting any of the behavior characteristics that are so much a part of Trump, the man.

Why did you write he "denigrates Hispanics"?

 

[kmoose]

Oh, let me shorten it for you ... You are a dumbass!

Excellent response, and well-deserved considering what he believes is relevant and factual.

You guys bang on Trump for being an asshole to ethnic groups, and then you turn around and act the same way(or worse, some might say) to people who disagree with your politics?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The Week's Michael Brendan Dougherty just published an article titled "The Republican Party now belongs to Donald Trump":

When Donald Trump became the GOP's presumptive presidential nominee, he successfully reversed the ruling order of the Republican Party. Those who were last are now first. And for the first time in decades, someone had united the non-conservative factions of the Republican Party.

Is it any wonder Republicans seem disoriented?

The conservative movement, whose ideas long dominated the Republican Party, had its natural base in the anti-New Deal middle West and the individualist far West. Theirs was a synthesis of Robert Taft's conservatism and Barry Goldwater's austere individualism. Eventually, this movement assimilated to itself the churched evangelicals, Catholics, and Mormons of the Moral Majority, along with hawkish neoconservative intellectuals. Naturally, this coalition was on the side of business owners ("You didn't build that"), free trade, and unrestricted immigration. It was hawkish and moralizing, and its intellectuals had a preoccupation with sound doctrine. They talked about capital-P Principles. These were the conservatives who came to dominate the party after the Reagan and Gingrich revolutions.

But now, at the moment of that coalition's strenuous exhaustion, Donald Trump has built a new coalition that draws from everyone else in the Republican fold. And he won.

Trump drew in the secular and moderate Northeast Republicans who had been sidelined by the conservatives. He combined those with the populist, nationalist South, particularly unchurched evangelicals. He threw in the downwardly mobile parts of Appalachia as well. The Trump coalition is a mix of Chris Christie and Jeff Sessions, with a dash of coal country thrown in.

This coalition is protectionist and talks about "jobs," not entrepreneurs. It is skeptical of wars, but willing to be merciless when necessary. Its would-be edgy intellectuals are particularists who care more about style than doctrine. They talk about forces. This coalition combines and amplifies traditional Mugwump and Dixie objections to mass immigration.

That Trump accomplished this is astonishing. Trump lacks principle, knowledge, and political judgment. (Just imagine the face he would make if someone explained to him that he was reviving the Mugwump tradition in Republican politics.) On issues where he has little knowledge or experience, he has an unusual ability to run ahead of public opinion. For the die-hard Trump supporters, Trump's march to victory over more conventional Republicans has boosted their morale. Trump rallies are weird carnivals. Their lead performer is loose.

Trump is now asking traditional conservatives to get on board and be as obedient to their new leaders as the followers were to them. You could say they are falling in line. Even the candidates who attacked him most vociferously, Marco Rubio and Rick Perry, seem to be signing up for a ride on the Trump Train. But many conservative stalwarts are making this transition with deliberate slowness. It is as if they want observers to view them less as accomplices than as hostages. Good luck with that.

Paul Ryan was "just not ready" to endorse Trump earlier this month, but seems to be trending in that direction. Trump called Lindsey Graham last week and seems to have gotten Graham to at least be a little quieter. The GOP's fundraising apparatus is kicking into low gear and looks like it is going to stay that way. If Trump's ideological makeover of the Republican Party somehow makes the party more competitive against Democrats, the Ryans and Grahams and an entire class of conservative intellectuals and party technicians are in for a rude awakening in November.

Losing command of the party is a difficult thing to accept. And I doubt the conservative movement will accept it in time for this election. Conservatives expect Trump to lose.

My own inclination is to step aside and let Trump's campaign burn itself into cinders by November. But I also believe Hillary Clinton is fully capable of self-destructing. If Trump wins without conservatives, they may never seem useful to the party again. And if he loses, the conservative leaders who joined him may never be trusted by the many conservative institutions and donor class in the same way.

 

[phgreek]

This article cites a poll that Bernie has 84% of the youth vote to Hillary's 14%. Of course, it is the primaries and unfortunately, we aren't going to see what he could do in a national election.

Why Young Democrats Love Bernie Sanders | FiveThirtyEight

The "calling for a time" comment has to do with Trump's "Make America Great Again" theme that has run through his campaign. Going back in time to any period in American history, we will find that young people, women and minorities were marginalized. I don't think that simple point is even debatable. Young people were taught to obey and respect their elders, women were traditionally "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen," and minorities were treated, at best, with indifference if not outright contempt by those in power. I can't think of a time in this nation's history in which those groups held a higher degree of respect than they do today (which is a sad commentary). Returning to an earlier period is returning to the past.

So to you his "Make America Great Again" has to do with social issues? Really?

I took him to mean restore law and order. To put American interests first as relates to foreign trade and policy. Shrug. Maybe I missed something.

 

[NorthDakota]

So to you his "Make America Great Again" has to do with social issues? Really?

I took him to mean restore law and order. To put American interests first as relates to foreign trade and policy. Shrug. Maybe I missed something.

I'm with you.

 

[GATTACA!]

So to you his "Make America Great Again" has to do with social issues? Really?

I took him to mean restore law and order. To put American interests first as relates to foreign trade and policy. Shrug. Maybe I missed something.

Agreed it's disingenuous to try and claim that Trump wants to go back to a time when minorities had no rights.

He's said nothing that would lead anyone to believe that, but saying that gives Hillary supporters an easy thing to attack.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Agreed it's disingenuous to try and claim that Trump wants to go back to a time when minorities had no rights.

He's said nothing that would lead anyone to believe that, but saying that gives Hillary supporters an easy thing to attack.

So wanting to ban all Muslims, have them carry special IDs, and creating a database for them doesn't count?

 

[ulukinatme]

Trump on Warren: 'You mean Pocahontas?'

LMAO

Stuff like this is why he is stealing my heart...and my vote.

I may kick myself for doing this, but I have to ask why "stuff like this" makes you like the guy enough to vote for him as POTUS. Is it just this petty name-calling, childish demeanor that attracts you, or are there more serious reasons you feel he's capable in this role?

To be perfectly honest, while yea it's funny to make a joke about Warren's claim to her heritage (while not entirely proven nor disproven), his 'comebacks' to her epic rants on why he's a terrible candidate completely, and totally fall short. She's drilled him on key points time and time again, and his best comeback is to call her Pocahontas...and you guys can't seem to get enough of it. Makes zero sense to me.

Yep, people might as well vote for

Oooo...I would definitely vote for Trump/Triumph in 2016. The level of awesome would be unparalleled.

Obamacare is a great thing...for me to poop on!

 

[BobbyMac]

So wanting to ban all Muslims, have them carry special IDs, and creating a database for them doesn't count?

Would you like to reword this before people respond to it?

 

[GATTACA!]

So wanting to ban all Muslims, have them carry special IDs, and creating a database for them doesn't count?

When in our history have muslims been banned from entering?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Would you like to reword this before people respond to it?

Were we not discussing Trump and restricting the rights of minorities? Those words came out of his mouth, not mine.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

When in our history have muslims been banned from entering?

You said it was disingenuous to suggest Trump wants to restrict the rights of minorities (like in the past)...only in the present day, he's said as much towards Muslims.

 

[NDinL.A.]

How do you think it should affect them?

Should a guy pretending to be someone else on the phone to toot his own horn really be an issue, if the incident occurred when he was just a celebrity businessman, and not a politician?

"these things", not "thing" singular.

They all add up. This one particular series of incidents just furthers proves (to me) my own judgment that the guy is an egomaniac of the highest order, and also just a weirdo.

 

[GATTACA!]

You said it was disingenuous to suggest Trump wants to restrict the rights of minorities (like in the past)...only in the present day, he's said as much towards Muslims.

Muslims that aren't US citizens, same thing with illegal immigrants he wants to deport. Disagree with either if you want but neither means he wants to transport us back to the 1950's.

Beyond that we have the right to decide who enters our country. Many europeans are already calling for similar bans now as they are seeing the negative effect mass muslim immigration is having. Other countries like our ally Japan have already enacted similar bans.

The database thing I agree with. It shouldn't be a muslim database though. We should have documentation on everyone that's coming in.

 

[GATTACA!]

"these things", not "thing" singular.

They all add up. This one particular series of incidents just furthers proves (to me) my own judgment that the guy is an egomaniac of the highest order, and also just a weirdo.

Come on, you're saying a guy with this haircut is a weirdo??

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Muslims that aren't US citizens, same thing with illegal immigrants he wants to deport. Disagree with either if you want but neither means he wants to transport us back to the 1950's.

Beyond that we have the right to decide who enters our country. Many europeans are already calling for similar bans now as they are seeing the negative effect mass muslim immigration is having. Other countries like our ally Japan have already enacted similar bans.

The database thing I agree with. It shouldn't be a muslim database though. We should have documentation on everyone that's coming in.

What about the current Muslims who are citizens? Trump has called for warrantless searches and increased surveillance on mosques and other Islamic communities?

I'm not saying he wants to take us back to the '50s. But you made some bogus claim that Trump doesn't want to restrict the rights of minorities and it's absolutely false.