2016 Fall Camp Thread

[dublinirish]

I think the ball spins in opposite directions, but that is it

ND playing in Australia this year?

 

[Irishman77]

Every year before this the coaches and fans were uncomfortable about who would be QB under Kelly. This year coaches and fans can relax. All the discomfort will come from Kizer or Zaire.

We are finally there. I still cannot believe this took 6 years! No more noodle arm statues or sub 6 footers!

Book and Davis hopefully will be good back ups but ...

2016 Zaire/Kizer
2017-2019 Wimbush
2020 Jurkovic

 

[NDty9]

Every year before this the coaches and fans were uncomfortable about who would be QB under Kelly. This year coaches and fans can relax. All the discomfort will come from Kizer or Zaire.

We are finally there. I still cannot believe this took 6 years! No more noodle arm statues or sub 6 footers!

Book and Davis hopefully will be good back ups but ...

2016 Zaire/Kizer
2017-2019 Wimbush
2020 Jurkovic

I have been wanting to say something like this for a while now. FINALLLYYYY we are set for a LONG TIME at QB.
I know its good conversation on forums like this as well as TV and Radio talk shows, but i hope none of us are stressed about the QB decision. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy OUR TALENT/DEPTH for the foreseeable future!

 

[BobbyMac]

I have been wanting to say something like this for a while now. FINALLLYYYY we are set for a LONG TIME at QB.
I know its good conversation on forums like this as well as TV and Radio talk shows, but i hope none of us are stressed about the QB decision. Just sit back, relax, and enjoy OUR TALENT/DEPTH for the foreseeable future!

Oh yeah? What are we gonna do in '23 when JT Daniels is gone? Huh Smarty?

The sky is always falling. If you fail to worry, it will land on your head!

 

[NDty9]

Oh yeah? What are we gonna do in '23 when JT Daniels is gone? Huh Smarty?

The sky is always falling. If you fail to worry, it will land on your head!

Sanford will be the head coach then, and mold ANY quarterback that comes to ND into a Championship caliber QB. BOOM, sky no longer falling!

 

[Bugzly21]

does anyone know or have talked to anyone that says if there is a difference receiving the ball from a righty to a lefty and vice-versa?

<script src="http://player.espn.com/player.js?playerBrandingId=4ef8000cbaf34c1687a7d9a26fe0e89e&adSetCode=91cDU6NuXTGKz3OdjOxFdAgJVtQcKJnI&pcode=1kNG061cgaoolOncv54OAO1ceO-I&width=576&height=324&externalId=espn:13874489&thruParam_espn-ui[autoPlay]=false&thruParam_espn-ui[playRelatedExternally]=true"></script>

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">First day in full pads.<br><br>Let's get it.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/IrishCamp?src=hash">#IrishCamp</a> <a href="https://t.co/Rak8X3oX7C">pic.twitter.com/Rak8X3oX7C</a></p>— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball/status/763385705112285185">August 10, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Luckylucci]

LSU game worked because you had one qb fighting for redemption and another that would do whatever you told him because he wanted to play. We are blessed and cursed to have two deserving quarterbacks that have both earned the right to play.

I would agree that the reason it worked can't be easily duplicated but I don't think it was due to the mental state of the players (Golson and Zaire). The reason it worked, masterfully I might add, was because Kelly had 1 month to prepare a gameplan against a singular opponent and each QB executed their part of that plan pretty darn well. We won't have enough time during the season, from week to week, to implement strategic gameplans of that nature. More about strategy, less about mental state of the players, IMO.

 

[dublinirish]

I would agree that the reason it worked can't be easily duplicated but I don't think it was due to the mental state of the players (Golson and Zaire). The reason it worked, masterfully I might add, was because Kelly had 1 month to prepare a gameplan against a singular opponent and each QB executed their part of that plan pretty darn well. We won't have enough time during the season, from week to week, to implement strategic gameplans of that nature. More about strategy, less about mental state of the players, IMO.

Plus LSU would have had very little tape on Zaire.

 

[arrowryan]

I would agree that the reason it worked can't be easily duplicated but I don't think it was due to the mental state of the players (Golson and Zaire). The reason it worked, masterfully I might add, was because Kelly had 1 month to prepare a gameplan against a singular opponent and each QB executed their part of that plan pretty darn well. We won't have enough time during the season, from week to week, to implement strategic gameplans of that nature. More about strategy, less about mental state of the players, IMO.

I don't necessarily think BK should play both so there is a new wrinkle in the offense; I think he should play both in every game to keep them both invested in the team. They both know they are good enough to start for almost 100% of the teams in the country. If one of them loses the job and will only play because the other one gets hurt, then I think they should start looking at other schools.

BK has said many times that Kizer and Zaire both run the same playbook, so there shouldn't be much "adjusting" to the offense is they rotate in games. For Golson and Zaire, I would assume there was a shit ton of adjusting for the offense to do because Zaire didn't know the offense as well as he does now.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Plus LSU would have had very little tape on Zaire.

Plus LSU has no chest.

 

[BobbyMac]

Plus LSU would have had very little tape on Zaire.

Good argument forr MZ being the starter...everybody STILL has very little tape on him.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't necessarily think BK should play both so there is a new wrinkle in the offense; I think he should play both in every game to keep them both invested in the team. They both know they are good enough to start for almost 100% of the teams in the country. If one of them loses the job and will only play because the other one gets hurt, then I think they should start looking at other schools.

BK has said many times that Kizer and Zaire both run the same playbook, so there shouldn't be much "adjusting" to the offense is they rotate in games. For Golson and Zaire, I would assume there was a shit ton of adjusting for the offense to do because Zaire didn't know the offense as well as he does now.

I can't follow you on this one. We have Wimbush behind them so if a transfer happens, then his time will come. Which is what we were expecting when he signed anyways.

It'd be absolutely pointless to leave prior to the start of the season or midseason. Kizer would still have to sit out the following year or , in Zaire's case, he'd just take his 5th year somewhere else, after the season concludes. Why not stick around, practice, and see if that injury does occur. So, you can get your shot. If you leave, you have no chance at getting your shot.

 

[arrowryan]

I can't follow you on this one. We have Wimbush behind them so if a transfer happens, then his time will come. Which is what we were expecting when he signed anyways.

It'd be absolutely pointless to leave prior to the start of the season or midseason. Kizer would still have to sit out the following year or , in Zaire's case, he'd just take his 5th year somewhere else, after the season concludes. Why not stick around, practice, and see if that injury does occur. So, you can get your shot. If you leave, you have no chance at getting your shot.

I should've clarified that they will lose interest in the 2016 season and will look to play elsewhere when the season ends.

I'm not going to be concerned if someone transfers. But if Zaire loses out and doesn't play this year then I'm going to feel horrible for him. He's more than good enough to play. I like to think Brian Kelly and Notre Dame won't do him like that though; especially since he is a guy that everyone likes to have in the locker room, battled it out with Golson, and considering BK literally told Malik that this is his team.

 

[Luckylucci]

I should've clarified that they will lose interest in the 2016 season and will look to play elsewhere when the season ends.

I'm not going to be concerned if someone transfers. But if Zaire loses out and doesn't play this year then I'm going to feel horrible for him. He's more than good enough to play. I like to think Brian Kelly and Notre Dame won't do him like that though; especially since he is a guy that everyone likes to have in the locker room, battled it out with Golson, and considering BK literally told Malik that this is his team.

Again, I don't see this happening. Both players became starting QB's during the season, due injuries or poor performance from the incumbent. So, I would expect, since its happened to them before, they fully understand it could happen again. Plus, in both cases, should it happen early, both guys could be playing for NFL futures. I highly doubt, either checks out throughout the season. In some cases, I could agree, but not here.

I'll feel bad too, but what are you saying? "Won't do him like that." Do him like what? He was injured, Kizer stepped in and played really well. Kelly has opened it back up for him (Zaire) to compete. Its not like he's not being given a chance. I guess I'm having trouble following your logic here. At one point it was a strategic decision to play both QB's, now its an emotional decision.

 

[arrowryan]

Again, I don't see this happening. Both players became starting QB's during the season, due injuries or poor performance from the incumbent. So, I would expect, since its happened to them before, they fully understand it could happen again. Plus, in both cases, should it happen early, both guys could be playing for NFL futures. I highly doubt, either checks out throughout the season. In some cases, I could agree, but not here.

I'll feel bad too, but what are you saying? "Won't do him like that." Do him like what? He was injured, Kizer stepped in and played really well. Kelly has opened it back up for him (Zaire) to compete. Its not like he's not being given a chance. I guess I'm having trouble following your logic here. At one point it was a strategic decision to play both QB's, now its an emotional decision.

For wins and good production on the field, I think Kelly should play both because we have all seen that both are good enough to play and I don't like the idea of letting talent just sit on the bench. I don't think having both play will make the offense have to adjust to anything because Kizer and Zaire run the same playbook.

Now for the "emotional decision", everyone who watched on Showtime knows that Kelly told Zaire that this is his team. I think Kelly is a good person and will honor his word but that doesn't mean Zaire should be the full time starter because we all saw what Kizer can do.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Good argument forr MZ being the starter...everybody STILL has very little tape on him.

I really hope nobody sees this as a legit argument.

 

[connor_in]

Good argument forr MZ being the starter...everybody STILL has very little tape on him.

Ian Book for starter then? He has no tape

 

[GrangerIrish24]

I would agree that the reason it worked can't be easily duplicated but I don't think it was due to the mental state of the players (Golson and Zaire). The reason it worked, masterfully I might add, was because Kelly had 1 month to prepare a gameplan against a singular opponent and each QB executed their part of that plan pretty darn well. We won't have enough time during the season, from week to week, to implement strategic gameplans of that nature. More about strategy, less about mental state of the players, IMO.

I don't disagree. There were a lot of factors going into that being a success. I just try to downplay the LSU game as being the reason we should use 2 quarterbacks. I don't envy Kelly's job in any way going into this decision.

 

[Luckylucci]

For wins and good production on the field, I think Kelly should play both because we have all seen that both are good enough to play and I don't like the idea of letting talent just sit on the bench. I don't think having both play will make the offense have to adjust to anything because Kizer and Zaire run the same playbook.
Now for the "emotional decision", everyone who watched on Showtime knows that Kelly told Zaire that this is his team. I think Kelly is a good person and will honor his word but that doesn't mean Zaire should be the full time starter because we all saw what Kizer can do.

So here's the pushback. If both players run the same offense and both players, lets say, grade out at a 8 out of 10, for simplistic purposes. Then why would you ever disrupt timing with WR's, cadence at the LOS, command of the huddle, etc. If all you are doing is subbing out an 8 to put in an 8, especially considering they'll be running the same plays.

Now, if the approach is, Zaire will be running these certain plays, because he can do so at a much higher level than Kizer and vice versa, then it might make sense. Otherwise, its just change for the sake of change and making people happy. Not about wins and production, because the production would be the same, right? Essentially you are not gaining production because that production would've happened by just leaving in the other player, making the change doesn't add extra production.

 

[koonja]

Interesting comments from Denbrock from the video. When asked what this wr group needs considering the talent but youth... doesn't mention experience/play book.. but says twice they need to raise their level of compete..

How is competition an issue with so many spots open for the taking? You'd think these young guys would be going ham to get reps. Is the whole group soft or what?

 

[Rizzophil]

Interesting comments from Denbrock from the video. When asked what this wr group needs considering the talent but youth... doesn't mention experience/play book.. but says twice they need to raise their level of compete..

How is competition an issue with so many spots open for the taking? You'd think these young guys would be going ham to get reps. Is the whole group soft or what?

The group just needs to add confidence

 

[arrowryan]

So here's the pushback. If both players run the same offense and both players, lets say, grade out at a 8 out of 10, for simplistic purposes. Then why would you ever disrupt timing with WR's, cadence at the LOS, command of the huddle, etc. If all you are doing is subbing out an 8 to put in an 8, especially considering they'll be running the same plays.

Now, if the approach is, Zaire will be running these certain plays, because he can do so at a much higher level than Kizer and vice versa, then it might make sense. Otherwise, its just change for the sake of change and making people happy. Not about wins and production, because the production would be the same, right? Essentially you are not gaining production because that production would've happened by just leaving in the other player, making the change doesn't add extra production.

This is where I'm at. Zaire is much better than Kizer at the read option, IMO. Meanwhile, I really like that Kizer can just stand tall in the pocket, sling it, and can take off if he needs to. This is why I like giving the ball to Zaire in the red zone and let Kizer get us to the red zone.

 

[koonja]

The group just needs to add confidence

That comes from experience/game reps though. Competitive nature comes from within/coaching. That's worrisome to me. I can just imagine Corey Holmes lolly gaging through practice, focused more on cracking C- jokes than ripping the ball from the defenders. I'm already sick of it (coach hines).

 

[NDdomer2]

That comes from experience/game reps though. Competitive nature comes from within/coaching. That's worrisome to me. I can just imagine Corey Holmes lolly gaging through practice, focused more on cracking C- jokes than ripping the ball from the defenders. I'm already sick of it (coach hines).

I don't think he's talking abit competing for a spot. I think he's referring to the level of effort, attention to detail, it takes play to play to play to be good at this level.

It's something that inexperienced players can't fully grasp in practice settings imo.

 

[Luckylucci]

This is where I'm at. Zaire is much better than Kizer at the read option, IMO. Meanwhile, I really like that Kizer can just stand tall in the pocket, sling it, and can take off if he needs to. This is why I like giving the ball to Zaire in the red zone and let Kizer get us to the red zone.

I could get behind that a little more so than flip flopping QB's on a Qtr to Qtr or drive to drive basis. However, only if, in practice the coaches see a meaningful efficiency difference in those two areas between those two players.

 

[arrowryan]

I could get behind that a little more so than flip flopping QB's on a Qtr to Qtr or drive to drive basis. However, only if, in practice the coaches see a meaningful efficiency difference in those two areas between those two players.

Absolutely, the coaches will obviously know more than us about who what well in certain situations.

But coming from someone that watches a lot of football, having a quarterback that is a threat to run the football is a huge advantage in the red zone since it is easier for the secondary to cover the receivers due to the field being shorter. I can just picture Zaire doing read option with Josh Adams at the 10 yard line or watching a middle linebacker trying to spy Zaire as he begins to take off.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Yeah I have no idea why ND doesnt do more of the QB run to dump to RB plays. Say you have a spy on teh QB, you have taken at least 1 guy out of coverage. Run the QB towards the line and dump off to the RB behind the LB coming up to shut down the QBs run. Seems perfectly reasonable. Seems most the RB passes are designed plays going to the RB instead of safety value type things.

 

[irishfan]

Let's just say WR and TE (from a receiving standpoint) are the two main weak points of the offense. Would that make you more likely to roll with Zaire as the better runner and assume that the rushing attack will be the focal point of the offense, or more likely to go with Kizer as he is the more polished passer and would theoretically be able to get more out of these WRs?

 

[GoIrish41]

Let's just say WR and TE (from a receiving standpoint) are the two main weak points of the offense. Would that make you more likely to roll with Zaire as the better runner and assume that the rushing attack will be the focal point of the offense, or more likely to go with Kizer as he is the more polished passer and would theoretically be able to get more out of these WRs?

With our line and stable of backs, we're going to be able to run on just about anyone this year no matter who the QB is. I'd put the guy in who has the best chance of adding the passing dimension to the mix, getting our young WRs some experience early in the year so they are ready to contribute when we really need them to. My gut tells me the QB who expands the pressure we put on a defense most is Kizer, but that may be because I have seen him play a lot more than I've seen Malik. Zaire looked good against Texas and not so good against Va. last year before Kizer came in to put the Cavs away late. He's a known quantity.