2016 Fall Camp Thread

[Rocket89]

How come Bivin got moved, when he was the club house leader after the spring?

Thought Harrell was the backup tackle and Kramer as a possibility as backup tackle.


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Heistand's MO has always been to move the "favored" backups around to ensure flexibility. Hoge, McGovern, Bivin, and Kraemer have all practiced at multiple positions. It's pretty normal.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Heistand's MO has always been to move the "favored" backups around to ensure flexibility. Hoge, McGovern, Bivin, and Kraemer have all practiced at multiple positions. It's pretty normal.

Yes I understand that, same goes for Harrell.

But my question still stands. How is Bivin out of the race for starting RG when he was the club house leader after the spring?


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[Rocket89]

Yes I understand that, same goes for Harrell.

But my question still stands. How is Bivin out of the race for starting RG when he was the club house leader after the spring?


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Not sure he's entirely out of the race, he was getting some work at RG during the Thursday open practice. But if so, because Hoge is really, really talented.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Not sure he's entirely out of the race, he was getting some work at RG during the Thursday open practice. But if so, because Hoge is really, really talented.

Ok. So why do you all think Hoge is ahead of McGovern? From what BK stated, I feel McGovern currently has the lead.


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[Crazy Balki]

Ok. So why do you all think Hoge is ahead of McGovern? From what BK stated, I feel McGovern currently has the lead.


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Pretty much McGovern is the stronger and more consistent player, but Hoge has the higher upside and is more athletic. If Hoge continues to come along during camp, then the RG position has a lot more room to grow. If Hoge doesn't, then McGovern is your steady, solid option that can still get a good push in run support, but you do have to worry if he can stay healthy all season.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Pretty much McGovern is the stronger and more consistent player, but Hoge has the higher upside and is more athletic. If Hoge continues to come along during camp, then the RG position has a lot more room to grow. If Hoge doesn't, then McGovern is your steady, solid option that can still get a good push in run support, but you do have to worry if he can stay healthy all season.

Yep 100% agree with that. And to me I take that as Colin is the starter until Hoge is ready. Which could be by the end of camp, during the season, spring or next fall. So I say again Colin is the club house leader not Hoge. Why does everyone think Hoge has the edge right now?


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[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Yep 100% agree with that. And to me I take that as Colin is the starter until Hoge is ready. Which could be by the end of camp, during the season, spring or next fall. So I say again Colin is the club house leader not Hoge. Why does everyone think Hoge has the edge right now?


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I'm with you Sherm. I think Colin is the likely starting RG and if Hoge becomes consistent enough to take the position, it'll likely be due to his ability to also pull. Kelly made mention of how important it is for this offensive line to have the guards pulling. I think McGovern is a bit more fixed in his assignment. He won't be pulling often but we can still run to his side because he's likely very sound and consistent.

Maybe I'm wrong. I just want to see our first game already.

 

[Rocket89]

Yep 100% agree with that. And to me I take that as Colin is the starter until Hoge is ready. Which could be by the end of camp, during the season, spring or next fall. So I say again Colin is the club house leader not Hoge. Why does everyone think Hoge has the edge right now?


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For me, it's always difficult to take Kelly's word as 100% gospel, especially on the OL where Heistand's opinion is so strong.

Camp opening presser: Bivin/Hoge/Kraemer will compete at RG, per Kelly
1st open practice: Bivin starting, Hoge/Kraemer rotating
2nd open practice: Hoge starting, Bivin/McGovern rotating
3rd open practice: Hoge starting, McGovern rotating

From what we've seen is seems like they want Hoge to be the starter. I can see McGovern winning things eventually but I don't know if he's the leader right now.

 

[dwshade]

I would project Hoge as the starter for two reasons. Athleticism and upside. They want to be able to pull the guard in this offense and Hoge is easily the best at that. Very athletic guy. As far as strength lets face it, if it's 3rd and short they are running left everytime behind McGlinchey and Nelson. Hoge with four years of eligibility also has a ton of upside that McGovern and Bivin don't have. I think the best roles for them are as utllity guys at RG and RT. From a pure talent standpoint they would be best with Hoge at center and Kraemer at RG but lack of experience will keep that from happening at the start.

 

[IrishLax]

With all the Weishar talk earlier, I thought this was a good article to share from ISD: Weishar Looking for Production - Irish Sports Daily Not sure if premium.

The most interesting notes from the article was BK talking about Nic finally having his body right...

"At this time last year we had lost him for two or three practices already. Overheating, not being able to make the practice, inconsistency in terms of just being out on the field. Nic hasn’t missed a practice and we’ve had some pretty hot days out there and his volume’s been high. His ability to be out there every single day and take the load of the position has been a big uptick for us."

This hits on some of what we were talking about earlier about why we didn't see much of Nic his first two years... 1) he was light and really had to gain weight/muscle to play the position 2) he didn't develop his body correctly when gaining the weight and got a bit sluggish.

So IMO it's completely plausible that this year he's able to be productive at TE after going from "project" when recruited to "developed." That's how a S&C program is supposed to work.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I believe it's free. I'm happy that Weishar is looking better out there. When the talk in last year's spring was that he lost too much speed and coaches were worried about him being able to play, I was really disappointed. I'm glad that that turned out to be a false alarm.

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[Luckylucci]

I would project Hoge as the starter for two reasons. Athleticism and upside. They want to be able to pull the guard in this offense and Hoge is easily the best at that. Very athletic guy. As far as strength lets face it, if it's 3rd and short they are running left everytime behind McGlinchey and Nelson. Hoge with four years of eligibility also has a ton of upside that McGovern and Bivin don't have. I think the best roles for them are as utllity guys at RG and RT. From a pure talent standpoint they would be best with Hoge at center and Kraemer at RG but lack of experience will keep that from happening at the start.

That's essentially what both Scout and 247 are saying as well. They believe they're going to give him a lot of reps, in hopes that he takes control of the position for those very reasons. He has a lot of upside due to age and athleticism. Plus they (ND staff) feel comfortable that if they were to reach the end of camp and don't think he's ready, that McGovern will be a solid option. McGovern doesn't need the reps and his athleticism isn't changing anytime soon. Where Hoge has that, just needs more reps.

 

[Domina Nostra]

That's essentially what both Scout and 247 are saying as well. They believe they're going to give him a lot of reps, in hopes that he takes control of the position for those very reasons. He has a lot of upside due to age and athleticism. Plus they (ND staff) feel comfortable that if they were to reach the end of camp and don't think he's ready, that McGovern will be a solid option. McGovern doesn't need the reps and his athleticism isn't changing anytime soon. Where Hoge has that, just needs more reps.

I think the issue with McGovern is simply health. I think he'd be the starter if they were confident, i.e., had any history to suggest, that he'd stay healthy.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

Had a look at a gallery of photos from practise yesterday on 247. Cage looks like he's about the same weight bit lost about 5-10% body fat and has a lot of good muscle. Tranquil looks GREAT. Coney looks like an NFL LB. The Freshman WR's look great physically. Claypool is impressive and Javon looks much bigger than I expected. MZ looks GREAT!

 

[Luckylucci]

I think the issue with McGovern is simply health. I think he'd be the starter if they were confident, i.e., had any history to suggest, that he'd stay healthy.

I don't. I think Hoge, like stated above, is the better talent. He just needs to learn the position more.

 

[Blaise]

With all the Weishar talk earlier, I thought this was a good article to share from ISD: Weishar Looking for Production - Irish Sports Daily Not sure if premium.

The most interesting notes from the article was BK talking about Nic finally having his body right...

This hits on some of what we were talking about earlier about why we didn't see much of Nic his first two years... 1) he was light and really had to gain weight/muscle to play the position 2) he didn't develop his body correctly when gaining the weight and got a bit sluggish.

So IMO it's completely plausible that this year he's able to be productive at TE after going from "project" when recruited to "developed." That's how a S&C program is supposed to work.

Hope this is true... We need something from him this year in the passing game

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

Hope this is true... We need something from him this year in the passing game

Same here. I think our Te's will be solid this year it's just a matter of if we'll use them. Our WR's aren't what they were last year so I think we'll be throwing to the TE more this year.
GO IRISH

 

[NDPhilly]

Notre Dame came in 4th in 247's composite team talent rankings that are based on recruiting. Props to Kelly. Anything less than 10-2 should be considered a disappointment.

2016 College Football Team Talent Composite

 

[Domina Nostra]

I don't. I think Hoge, like stated above, is the better talent. He just needs to learn the position more.

I'm not arguing that he's not the better talent. Knowing the position is huge. I think Bars was a better talent than Elmer last year, but he didn't start.

McGovern has always impressed in the stretches he stays healthy, but has always ended up injured shortly thereafter.

 

[connor_in]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball">@NDFootball</a> gets ready for the season by tackling robots <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BRxND?src=hash">#BRxND</a><a href="https://t.co/XoMQMgAJAU">https://t.co/XoMQMgAJAU</a></p>— Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) <a href="https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/765273721275686912">August 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
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[Luckylucci]

I'm not arguing that he's not the better talent. Knowing the position is huge. I think Bars was a better talent than Elmer last year, but he didn't start.

McGovern has always impressed in the stretches he stays healthy, but has always ended up injured shortly thereafter.

Your statement was that McGovern would get the job if they thought he could stay healthy. I don't think that has anything to do with it. They basing it on the trade off between Hoge's talent and McGovern's knowledge/stability at the position. Regardless of McGovern's health issues, Hoge would still be the more talented player with more upside.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

I hope Hoge wins out. He all ready redshirted and got up to 310. Let's get him on the field and if he struggles we have great options behind him. This line should be excellent. We'll have the best left side in the country. I think Bars will be solid and steady and start at LT next year. I'm concerned about RG a bit though and think we may have a bit of a fall off early on but pick things up and en the year elite on the OL

 

[Domina Nostra]

Your statement was that McGovern would get the job if they thought he could stay healthy. I don't think that has anything to do with it. They basing it on the trade off between Hoge's talent and McGovern's knowledge/stability at the position. Regardless of McGovern's health issues, Hoge would still be the more talented player with more upside.

Bars was clearly more talented than Elmer last year, but they factored in other things, like experience. Talent was not the deciding factor.

I think Kraemer is more talented than Hoge. But they aren't going that direction.

This coaching staff has gone with experience over talent lots, and lots, and lots of times.

So Hoge may be more talented, and it may come down to that. But my point is that I don't think talent would be the deciding factor IF McGlinchy was healthy. But since McGlinchy has a record of injuries, they may just decide to go with the higher upside like you are saying.

 

[Luckylucci]

Bars was clearly more talented than Elmer last year, but they factored in other things, like experience. Talent was not the deciding factor.

I think Kraemer is more talented than Hoge. But they aren't going that direction.

This coaching staff has gone with experience over talent lots, and lots, and lots of times.

So Hoge may be more talented, and it may come down to that. But my point is that I don't think talent would be the deciding factor IF McGlinchy was healthy. But since McGlinchy has a record of injuries, they may just decide to go with the higher upside like you are saying.

What does experience have to do with what your previous statement was. Your previous statement was that health was the deciding factor not experience. You're moving goal posts here. Once again, I don't believe that health has anything to do with it. It is experience versus talent.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Bars was clearly more talented than Elmer last year, but they factored in other things, like experience. Talent was not the deciding factor.

I think Kraemer is more talented than Hoge. But they aren't going that direction.

This coaching staff has gone with experience over talent lots, and lots, and lots of times.

So Hoge may be more talented, and it may come down to that. But my point is that I don't think talent would be the deciding factor IF McGlinchy was healthy. But since McGlinchy has a record of injuries, they may just decide to go with the higher upside like you are saying.

McGovern not McGlinchey.

 

[BobbyMac]

Notre Dame came in 4th in 247's composite team talent rankings that are based on recruiting. Props to Kelly. Anything less than 10-2 should be considered a disappointment.

2016 College Football Team Talent Composite

At this point, anything less than 11-1 IS a disappointment. The one loss is reserved for SC because I, nor anybody else on this planet has any idea what kind of team they are yet. They could be a 1 loss of 5 loss team when ND shows up in LA.

I'm going to guess ND is favored in every game 24hrs before kick off.

Going into a season, I can't remember a season where the the schedule is setting up so favorably for the Irish. Especially considering you added a playoff team from the year before, Stanford has the Heisman co-favorite, Texas is one of their electives and SC is on the road... even dodged FSU and Clemson until at least January.

 

[arrowryan]

At this point, anything less than 11-1 IS a disappointment. The one loss is reserved for SC because I, nor anybody else on this planet has any idea what kind of team they are yet. They could be a 1 loss of 5 loss team when ND shows up in LA.

I'm going to guess ND is favored in every game 24hrs before kick off.

Going into a season, I can't remember a season where the the schedule is setting up so favorably for the Irish. Especially considering you added a playoff team from the year before, Stanford has the Heisman co-favorite, Texas is one of their electives and SC is on the road... even dodged FSU and Clemson until at least January.

Yeah, I really like that we get both MSU and Stanford at home this year. Both will be breaking in new quarterbacks; who will be the MSU quarterback anyway?

Whether it is Penn High School or Alabama, I always get worried about the first game of the year. Texas only worries me because we don't know if their QB will be good and we don't know how good our receivers will be.

This is a total random thought and I could be looking way too much into it. Kelly ended the second practice early on Saturday; I'm hoping that means that he really likes what he sees so far and thought they deserved to be let out early.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This is a total random thought and I could be looking way too much into it. Kelly ended the second practice early on Saturday; I'm hoping that means that he really likes what he sees so far and thought they deserved to be let out early.

Could be. More likely, I think, is that they're using GPS this year to keep track of who might be getting over-worked to cut down on the pre-season injuries. If a bunch of key players are at heightened risk for injury due to this week's work rate (especially given the high temperatures recently), cutting practice short is a good way to boost morale and protect the roster.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

Could be. More likely, I think, is that they're using GPS this year to keep track of who might be getting over-worked to cut down on the pre-season injuries. If a bunch of key players are at heightened risk for injury due to this week's work rate (especially given the high temperatures recently), cutting practice short is a good way to boost morale and protect the roster.

This.

 

[arrowryan]

Could be. More likely, I think, is that they're using GPS this year to keep track of who might be getting over-worked to cut down on the pre-season injuries. If a bunch of key players are at heightened risk for injury due to this week's work rate (especially given the high temperatures recently), cutting practice short is a good way to boost morale and protect the roster.

That would make sense considering there were a few guys that were sitting out just to be safe. After watching Kelly coach for 6 years now, we can all probably agree that letting the guys out early is out of character for him.