2014 Fall Camp Thread

[ND NYC]

I never argued that a mobile QB is necessary to run a spread offense, though being able to utilize option concepts tends to give the spread ground game a big boost. BK himself has stated that he doesn't need a mobile QB. See Tony Pike at Cincinnati. But if your QB can't run, he damned well better have the arm strength and accuracy to keep defenses honest. Conversely, as the academies prove, you can still run a spread offense without much of a passing threat if your QB is mobile and you're damned good at running the option.

Our problem in 2013 was that Rees didn't have the arm or the mobility to make either aspect of the spread work. So I don't see how one can argue that our recent QB woes can somehow be separated from the rushing production. Everything-- our play-calling, opposing defensive schemes, etc.-- revolved around Rees' very limited skillset.

we will never know why Kelly thought it was a good idea to have Rees run the option agaist USC that fateful saturday night at Notre Dame Stadium...still cant figure that one out! ugh!!!

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Link to a full look at ND's fall camp schedule and when you can expect updates: <a href="http://t.co/uvLpACB37N">http://t.co/uvLpACB37N</a></p>— Dan Murphy (@BGI_DanMurphy) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_DanMurphy/statuses/494563404481560576">July 30, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Fri. Aug. 1 BK Press Conference
Mon. Aug. 4 Media Vieiwing & Player Interviews
Tues. Aug. 5 No Access
Wed. Aug. 6 No Access
Thurs. Aug. 7 No Access
Fri. Aug. 8 No Access
Sat. Aug. 9 (Return to Campus) Media Viewing & Interviews
Mon. Aug. 11 VanGorder/Denbrock Interviews
Tues. Aug. 12 (Double Sessions) No Access
Wed. Aug. 13 Player Interviews
Thurs. Aug. 14 (Double Sessions) No Access
Fri. Aug. 15 No Access
Sat. Aug. 16 Media Viewing & BK Interview
Mon. Aug. 18 No Access
Tues. Aug. 19 Media Day (Player, assistants, UA CEO Kevin Plank available)
Wed. Aug. 20 (Double Sessions) No Access
Thurs. Aug. 21 No Access
Fri. Aug. 22 No Access
Mon. Aug. 25 Regular season practice schedule begins

 

[Buster Bluth]

When do you guys think we will see a depth chart?

 

[ulukinatme]

When do you guys think we will see a depth chart?

When they release the depth chart

My guess is after a week of live camp we'll start to see insiders and such posting who is taking reps with 1st teamers and all that.

 

[Ironman8]

When do you guys think we will see a depth chart?

Usually one is handed out with updated heights / weights etc. right at that opening presser.

 

[wizards8507]

So jersey reveal 8/19 it looks like.

 

[Wild Bill]

When do you guys think we will see a depth chart?

I'm thinking the 25th or after. I think they'll drag out competitions for spots until the last day.

 

[Luckylucci]

Prister and Sampson at II did a Instant Analysis feature that included video footage of the field and one piece of interesting info. From people around the program Nic Weishar has really been impressing since reporting and early thought was he would have moved ahead of Mike H. by mid season even if Mike didn't get injured. Sounds like there are few freshman that are well prepared for camp.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Prister and Sampson at II did a Instant Analysis feature that included video footage of the field and one piece of interesting info. From people around the program Nic Weishar has really been impressing since reporting and early thought was he would have moved ahead of Mike H. by mid season even if Mike didn't get injured. Sounds like there are few freshman that are well prepared for camp.

Wow, I think most of us were hoping for 4-5 contributors from the freshman class. So far we've heard: Cage, Hayes, Trumbetti, Nyles Morgan, Tranquil, Watkins, Weishar, Quenton Nelson all have a legitimate chance at playing time this year. Now, I hope Quenton can preserve a year but that is a lot of contributors for a freshman class. Did I miss anyone?

If we knock it out of the park with d-line recruiting, I wonder if Jhonny Williams would get a look at TE?

 

[ulukinatme]

If we knock it out of the park with d-line recruiting, I wonder if Jhonny Williams would get a look at TE?

I'd rather have extra bodies on the DL than at TE right now. Even without Heuerman, I think we've got the bodies at TE that it wouldn't be necessary to have another frosh there. After the way injuries hit us last year on the DL, I'd rather have more guys there when Navy is crushing our kneecaps with chop blocks.

 

[Irishman77]

I love hearing Drue seems ready, but James O will be starting at LB or SS this year and the next 3 IMHO.

 

[PANDFAN]

Wow, I think most of us were hoping for 4-5 contributors from the freshman class. So far we've heard: Cage, Hayes, Trumbetti, Nyles Morgan, Tranquil, Watkins, Weishar, Quenton Nelson all have a legitimate chance at playing time this year. Now, I hope Quenton can preserve a year but that is a lot of contributors for a freshman class. Did I miss anyone?

If we knock it out of the park with d-line recruiting, I wonder if Jhonny Williams would get a look at TE?

I believe you mean Bonner

 

[Crazy Balki]

It was a good read and really hammered the importance of the SAM position in BVG's defense. I agree, Drue could grow into a really good SAM. I just think he's going to have a hard time shedding blocks from long, athletic, powerful blockers. It's going to take some time to develop that skill.

Yeah, he's gonna have a hard time during practices.

 

[Fbolt]

Good that Nic is impressing but IMO it's all coach-pump talk. They'll pump one player one week and another the next. I'll be looking for who starts on Saturdays.

 

[Riddickulous]

Good that Nic is impressing but IMO it's all coach-pump talk. They'll pump one player one week and another the next. I'll be looking for who starts on Saturdays.

This guy gets it.

 

[Luckylucci]

Good that Nic is impressing but IMO it's all coach-pump talk. They'll pump one player one week and another the next. I'll be looking for who starts on Saturdays.

So this post baffles me for 2 reasons. First, one of the most important factors to success over a 12 game season is depth but most importantly functional depth. Secondly, why come to the fall camp thread where the majority of the next 4ish weeks we're going to be talking about exactly that, the depth chart.

 

[NCND]

Just a lil FYI.. The Coaches Poll comes out tomorrow.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I believe you mean Bonner

I definitely meant Williams. I hope Jhonny can carry the weight to become a nasty defensive end for us but there is a strong precedent set for basketball players switching to TE in football and having a lot of success. It isn't necessary but he strikes me as having a thin frame and major athleticism.

Just a thought but I understand that we all prefer to have as many players on the defensive line as possible since we routinely recruit tightends well.

 

[Ironman8]

I definitely meant Williams. I hope Jhonny can carry the weight to become a nasty defensive end for us but there is a strong precedent set for basketball players switching to TE in football and having a lot of success. It isn't necessary but he strikes me as having a thin frame and major athleticism.

Just a thought but I understand that we all prefer to have as many players on the defensive line as possible since we routinely recruit tightends well.

I don't think anyone should be moved to TE, but if it was anyone, I would prefer it to be Bonner. He has experience (and some talent) at that position, and Jhonny Williams (and Grant Blankenship for that matter, another potential TE) both immediately became our highest upside / most talented outside pass rushers on the team once they enrolled. I honestly believe both could be great there with a good amount of work.

I would never trade a potential star pass rusher for a very good TE, especially at ND. That's just my opinion.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't think anyone should be moved to TE, but if it was anyone, I would prefer it to be Bonner. He has experience (and some talent) at that position, and Jhonny Williams (and Grant Blankenship for that matter, another potential TE) both immediately became our highest upside / most talented outside pass rushers on the team once they enrolled. I honestly believe both could be great there with a good amount of work.

I would never trade a potential star pass rusher for a very good TE, especially at ND. That's just my opinion.

A consistent pass rush is probably the biggest question mark (weakness) of the entire team right now. It's all hands on deck and I agree that means Jhonny

 

[koonja]

A consistent pass rush is probably the biggest question mark (weakness) of the entire team right now. It's all hands on deck and I agree that means Jhonny

I actually think our pass rush will be solid. I'm worried about the run stuffing, though. Young LBs and the interior not having a strong second string (at least on paper) is my concern. Get us to 3rd and long and I think we'll be fine.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I don't think anyone should be moved to TE, but if it was anyone, I would prefer it to be Bonner. He has experience (and some talent) at that position, and Jhonny Williams (and Grant Blankenship for that matter, another potential TE) both immediately became our highest upside / most talented outside pass rushers on the team once they enrolled. I honestly believe both could be great there with a good amount of work.

I would never trade a potential star pass rusher for a very good TE, especially at ND. That's just my opinion.

I thought I made it apparent that if he has trouble putting on the necessary weight or he doesn't latch on to the DE role, then a TE switch isn't out of the realm of possibilities. I would've liked Niklas to be a nasty DE/OLB but the coaches saw higher upside on the other side of the ball.

I'm all for Jhonny becoming a dominant DE but his frame looks awfully thin to support DE weight. Since we are on the subject, what does a 6'4" or 6'5" DE need to be at in the 4-3 set? 260? 270? If you were defining a range of ideal weights for your DEs in a 4-3, what would you choose?

 

[Wild Bill]

I thought I made it apparent that if he has trouble putting on the necessary weight or he doesn't latch on to the DE role, then a TE switch isn't out of the realm of possibilities. I would've liked Niklas to be a nasty DE/OLB but the coaches saw higher upside on the other side of the ball.

I'm all for Jhonny becoming a dominant DE but his frame looks awfully thin to support DE weight. Since we are on the subject, what does a 6'4" or 6'5" DE need to be at in the 4-3 set? 260? 270? If you were defining a range of ideal weights for your DEs in a 4-3, what would you choose?

This was discussed before (can't remember the thread).

A weak side end can be under 250 without an issue. Hell, he can be under 240 as long as he gets the QB and plays like a savage.

I'll take a WDE from 225-250 and a SDE from 250-275

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

This was discussed before (can't remember the thread).

A weak side end can be under 250 without an issue. Hell, he can be under 240 as long as he gets the QB and plays like a savage.

I'll take a WDE from 225-250 and a SDE from 250-275

So you think those are the ideal weights for the respective positions? I missed that discussion and since we've been so set on getting 290-310 lb DEs for the last 4 years, I didn't realize there was such a dramatic shift in sizes between 3-4 and 4-3.

 

[PANDFAN]

I definitely meant Williams. I hope Jhonny can carry the weight to become a nasty defensive end for us but there is a strong precedent set for basketball players switching to TE in football and having a lot of success. It isn't necessary but he strikes me as having a thin frame and major athleticism.

Just a thought but I understand that we all prefer to have as many players on the defensive line as possible since we routinely recruit tightends well.

So you think those are the ideal weights for the respective positions? I missed that discussion and since we've been so set on getting 290-310 lb DEs for the last 4 years, I didn't realize there was such a dramatic shift in sizes between 3-4 and 4-3.

The defensive end's primary role in the 4–3 defense is to get to the quarterback and create pressure. The 4–3 DE's are the smallest of all of the defensive lineman due to their emphasis of speed over strength. They still need to be strong enough to fight their way past offensive tackles, yet quick enough to pursue the running backs on runs to the outside. Ideal 4–3 defensive ends are athletic and agile and their strength is getting up the field quickly and they usually weigh between 260 and 275 pounds (118 and 125 kg).[6] Right ends, who line up against the offensive left tackle and attack from the blind side of a right-handed quarterback, are usually the best athletes on the line, combining a 275-pound body with incredible quickness and agility to outflank blockers who are bigger and heavier.[5] Defensive ends generally play the 1 gap technique, though will occasionally be forced to play a 2 gap in the event of a TE pinching in to block on run plays. In most schemes, they are also responsible for keeping the quarterback from rolling out of the pocket to make big running gains.
Variant
Some teams like the Seattle Seahawks, Denver Broncos, Cincinnati Bengals and Oakland Raiders use an alternative sort of the 4–3 defense. They like to use a big, strong, 290 and plus strongside defensive end to stop the run on their base formation, and on passing downs they kick inside at defensive tackle to insert a pass rush specialist. But, players like Von Miller and James Harrison, two elite and undersized defensive ends, play strongside linebacker on 1st and 2nd downs and use their pass rushing ability on passing downs by lining up at stand-up defensive end to bring pressure on the quarterback.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4–3_defense

 

[jspags10pg]

I work with a kid that graduated high school with Jhonny and he said they tried him at WR/TE but that he can't catch. Said Jhonny is a beast tho and has been doing really well in summer workouts and that the coach's dont expect him to redshirt. The no redshirt thing surprised me simply because of the huge jump in competition he'll be facing. Berrien Springs has to be near the bottom competition wise for any kid on the roster.

Not sure how close they are/were but I do know they definitely went to the same high school. TIFWIW.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I actually think our pass rush will be solid. I'm worried about the run stuffing, though. Young LBs and the interior not having a strong second string (at least on paper) is my concern. Get us to 3rd and long and I think we'll be fine.

Funny how that's the polar opposite of our defensive strengths and weaknesses under Diaco.

 

[Wild Bill]

So you think those are the ideal weights for the respective positions? I missed that discussion and since we've been so set on getting 290-310 lb DEs for the last 4 years, I didn't realize there was such a dramatic shift in sizes between 3-4 and 4-3.

It depends. Great answer, I know. How are they built and what is the level of athleticism?

I think it would be hard to play as low as 225lbs but it's possible on the weakside if you're technically sound player with a great first step. Maybe you're a two down player that rushes the passer. Vic Beasley is a good example.

I think a better weight would be 240-255 - guys like Noah Spence and Jackson Jeffcoat.

The prototype is Clowney. He probably played around 260lb.

SDE is a different story. Tuitt is a once in a decade recruit. You're not going to find many 20 year olds that can carry 300lbs like him. Freaks are becoming more and more abundant but Tuitt type players aren't growing on trees in South Bend, I'm sorry to say.

Give me a powerful and athletic 275lb, someone like Isaac Rochelle, and I'll live.

 

[Wild Bill]

I work with a kid that graduated high school with Jhonny and he said they tried him at WR/TE but that he can't catch. Said Jhonny is a beast tho and has been doing really well in summer workouts and that the coach's dont expect him to redshirt. The no redshirt thing surprised me simply because of the huge jump in competition he'll be facing. Berrien Springs has to be near the bottom competition wise for any kid on the roster.

Not sure how close they are/were but I do know they definitely went to the same high school. TIFWIW.

Is it true he threw a shot put over a mountain?

 

[jspags10pg]

Is it true he threw a shot put over a mountain?

Probably not. There aren't any mountains here in Southwest Michigan. It was most likely just a really big hill with some rocks on top.