2014 Fall Camp Thread

[woolybug25]

I work with a kid that graduated high school with Jhonny and he said they tried him at WR/TE but that he can't catch. Said Jhonny is a beast tho and has been doing really well in summer workouts and that the coach's dont expect him to redshirt. The no redshirt thing surprised me simply because of the huge jump in competition he'll be facing. Berrien Springs has to be near the bottom competition wise for any kid on the roster.

Not sure how close they are/were but I do know they definitely went to the same high school. TIFWIW.

I find it hard to believe that he wont redshirt. As you know, Berrien Springs plays some of the lowest level of football in the state. There are offensive lineman on his team that are 5'8". He has probably never played against a D1 lineman.

Where in SW Michigan you from?

 

[irishog77]

Funny how that's the polar opposite of our defensive strengths and weaknesses under Diaco.

I think the talent and depth in the front 7 will be reason ND loses multiple games this year, regardless of scheme. And right now, I view that as a recruiting issue. I think BK and staff do a good job developing players, but some big holes were placed in the roster by the staff's inability to outright land LB's and/or DL in some past cycles, and the staff's lack of success in signing guys that aren't development/project type players in those 7 positions.

I guess the exception to my initial statement would be if the offense is lights-out efficient, then perhaps they will be able to overcome defensive shortcomings (if the O can score 45 points in any given game, or 30 against some of the better teams on the schedule, then maybe the D doesn't have to be that great). I have no idea how likely that is to happen though. I know we're all hopeful BK will have an efficient, successful offense based on the personnel he has at ND this year and based off his offensive output at previous stops, but we haven't really seen any evidence of it so far in his 4 years at ND.

Truthfully, I think there are A TON of question marks about ND's O, D, and ST heading into the season.

 

[NCND]

USA Today | Sports | NCAAF

 

[bobbyok1]

USA Today | Sports | NCAAF

Okay, so when I first opened that it said we were #24. When I reopened it, it said #17. I'll take #17.

 

[jspags10pg]

I find it hard to believe that he wont redshirt. As you know, Berrien Springs plays some of the lowest level of football in the state. There are offensive lineman on his team that are 5'8". He has probably never played against a D1 lineman.

Where in SW Michigan you from?

Right, I definitely agree. If I had to guess I'd say he'll redshirt too. There was that one other O-lineman on his own team tho that went to MSU. Can't remember his name off the top of my head but it had to at least be good to practice against someone like that.

I'm currently in Coloma but graduated from Watervliet...so northern berrien county. Although when I was about 5 years old til I was 11 I lived in Galien and could see the Indiana toll road from my backyard. Which is where my ND fanhood originated haha.

I remember your thread awhile back when you bought your old house in Niles I think, right? Pretty cool. And congrats on the old/new house.

 

[Riddickulous]

#17 is a little too high.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I think the talent and depth in the front 7 will be reason ND loses multiple games this year, regardless of scheme. And right now, I view that as a recruiting issue. I think BK and staff do a good job developing players, but some big holes were placed in the roster by the staff's inability to outright land LB's and/or DL in some past cycles, and the staff's lack of success in signing guys that aren't development/project type players in those 7 positions.

I guess the exception to my initial statement would be if the offense is lights-out efficient, then perhaps they will be able to overcome defensive shortcomings (if the O can score 45 points in any given game, or 30 against some of the better teams on the schedule, then maybe the D doesn't have to be that great). I have no idea how likely that is to happen though. I know we're all hopeful BK will have an efficient, successful offense based on the personnel he has at ND this year and based off his offensive output at previous stops, but we haven't really seen any evidence of it so far in his 4 years at ND.

Truthfully, I think there are A TON of question marks about ND's O, D, and ST heading into the season.

There are certainly a lot of question marks but isn't that expected when you lose the majority of your first teamers on both sides of the ball? We lost our stalwart OL left side, our best DL recruits, two LBs who played a ton of snaps, our QB, our most productive WR and our starting TE.

If there weren't question marks, it wouldn't be fall. I think the good news is that we do have some possible answers to those questions. I'm more afraid of stopping the run. I believe we'll be able to generate a pass rush with BVG's scheming, I'm afraid we may get gashed by the run.

Turnover creates excitement. Familiarity breeds contempt. I'll live on the edge of excitement even if it means we are let down multiple times.

 

[koonja]

I see Michigan is 6 spots out of being ranked according to that poll. Hopefully there's enough movement in week 1 so they can cell to South Bend as a top 25.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I think the talent and depth in the front 7 will be reason ND loses multiple games this year, regardless of scheme. And right now, I view that as a recruiting issue. I think BK and staff do a good job developing players, but some big holes were placed in the roster by the staff's inability to outright land LB's and/or DL in some past cycles, and the staff's lack of success in signing guys that aren't development/project type players in those 7 positions.

I guess the exception to my initial statement would be if the offense is lights-out efficient, then perhaps they will be able to overcome defensive shortcomings (if the O can score 45 points in any given game, or 30 against some of the better teams on the schedule, then maybe the D doesn't have to be that great). I have no idea how likely that is to happen though. I know we're all hopeful BK will have an efficient, successful offense based on the personnel he has at ND this year and based off his offensive output at previous stops, but we haven't really seen any evidence of it so far in his 4 years at ND.

Truthfully, I think there are A TON of question marks about ND's O, D, and ST heading into the season.

I'm a bit more optimistic than you are. We've had serious question marks surrounding at least one defensive unit in each of Kelly's last four seasons. Our DBs seemed like a major liability in 2012, and look how that turned out.

2014's defensive backfield projects to be the best (by a significant margin) that we've fielded in many many years. Our pass rush is likely to get a huge boost from the schematic changes alone. Our strength at DB and a wealth of highly athletic hybrid LB/S types will allow us to match up against spread teams much better than we have in the past. The only area where we're likely to take a step back is in basic run defense; but outside of Stanford (who we struggled with mightily, even when we were built explicitly to stop that style of offense), how many power rushing teams do we face this year?

 

[bobbyok1]

#17 is a little too high.

Hey if we want to get into the playoffs, starting higher is much better than lower. I'm not suggesting we will make the playoffs with our very tough schedule, just think it is better than being in the 20's.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm a bit more optimistic than you are. We've had serious question marks surrounding at least one defensive unit in each of Kelly's last four seasons. Our DBs seemed like a major liability in 2012, and look how that turned out.

2014's defensive backfield projects to be the best (by a significant margin) that we've fielded in many many years. Our pass rush is likely to get a huge boost from the schematic changes alone. Our strength at DB and a wealth of highly athletic hybrid LB/S types will allow us to match up against spread teams much better than we have in the past. The only area where we're likely to take a step back is in basic run defense; but outside of Stanford (who we struggled with mightily, even when we were built explicitly to stop that style of offense), how many power rushing teams do we face this year?

What about the schematic advantages?

 

[koonja]

I'm a bit more optimistic than you are. We've had serious question marks surrounding at least one defensive unit in each of Kelly's last four seasons. Our DBs seemed like a major liability in 2012, and look how that turned out.

2014's defensive backfield projects to be the best (by a significant margin) that we've fielded in many many years. Our pass rush is likely to get a huge boost from the schematic changes alone. Our strength at DB and a wealth of highly athletic hybrid LB/S types will allow us to match up against spread teams much better than we have in the past. The only area where we're likely to take a step back is in basic run defense; but outside of Stanford (who we struggled with mightily, even when we were built explicitly to stop that style of offense), how many power rushing teams do we face this year?

Yeah, but having question marks at DB >>> having questions on DL. Good DL play covers up for poor DB play moreso than than the other way around.

 

[NDWorld247]

Hey if we want to get into the playoffs, starting higher is much better than lower. I'm not suggesting we will make the playoffs with our very tough schedule, just think it is better than being in the 20's.

Starting higher is better from a public perception standpoint, but the only poll/ranking that matters for the playoffs is the one the Selection Committee puts out. They will release their first ranking on October 28.

 

[irishog77]

I'm a bit more optimistic than you are. We've had serious question marks surrounding at least one defensive unit in each of Kelly's last four seasons. Our DBs seemed like a major liability in 2012, and look how that turned out.

2014's defensive backfield projects to be the best (by a significant margin) that we've fielded in many many years. Our pass rush is likely to get a huge boost from the schematic changes alone. Our strength at DB and a wealth of highly athletic hybrid LB/S types will allow us to match up against spread teams much better than we have in the past. The only area where we're likely to take a step back is in basic run defense; but outside of Stanford (who we struggled with mightily, even when we were built explicitly to stop that style of offense), how many power power rushing teams do we face this year?

Yeah, I agree with this. A good secondary plus a defense that at least has a desire to get to the QB will help for sure.

I guess when I look at the presumed depth chart right now along the front 7 though, I see:

WLB- Smith- awesome player and talent, although a bit young. Couldn't ask for anything better than him though. Who is his back up though????
MLB- Schmidt- even the staff admits he has some serious limitations. Grace- my not be healthy enough this season to ever play meaningful minutes. Deeb and a true FR behind them. This position is downright scary to me as far as quality goes and/or actual experience.
SLB- Councell is a question mark due to health. JO and JT as possibilities. In theory, I like what BC, JO/JT bring to the table, but JO and JT have no experience. BC only has limited experience. A certain concern at this position.

DT- Day- I feel good about him. Behind him though? Springman, Hounshell (injury and experience concerns) or maybe FR. Concerned about the depth.
DT- Jones- has played well in stretches, but has lacked consistency in his career thus far. See above for depth. So there is certainly some mild concern overall here.
WDE- IW/RO. I think we're excited about both of those guys, but on field production is lacking by both on their resumes. Depth? True FR. Some concern is warranted.
SDE- IW/IR- Same as above.

 

[bobbyok1]

Starting higher is better from a public perception standpoint, but the only poll/ranking that matters for the playoffs is the one the Selection Committee puts out. They will release their first ranking on October 28.

I see that to a point. But you can better believe they will be influenced by polls. Their human like everyone else and they will want to consider what the Coaches, AP, etc have to say.

 

[NDWorld247]

I see that to a point. But you can better believe they will be influenced by polls. Their human like everyone else and they will want to consider what the Coaches, AP, etc have to say.

I don't think the other polls will matter. The committee's evaluation, as explained on their website, is much more in-depth. At the end of the day it will look very similar to the other polls, but given all of the data they will be analyzing, which is much more extensive than the AP or Coaches, they don't need to use their opinions.

Bottom line, if we are 12-0 or 11-1, we will have a shot at the playoffs. If we are 10-2, we will have a shot at one of the premier bowls. Anything less than that and we won't have a chance. The other polls are a good reference for the first two months of the season, but they'll have little to no influence on the only poll that matters.

 

[irishog77]

I don't think the other polls will matter. The committee's evaluation, as explained on their website, is much more in-depth. At the end of the day it will look very similar to the other polls, but given all of the data they will be analyzing, which is much more extensive than the AP or Coaches, they don't need to use their opinions.

Bottom line, if we are 12-0 or 11-1, we will have a shot at the playoffs. If we are 10-2, we will have a shot at one of the premier bowls. Anything less than that and we won't have a chance. The other polls are a good reference for the first two months of the season, but they'll have little to no influence on the only poll that matters.

Wooly will eat a shoe, booger, and do a naked lap if the committee's poll does not look quite similar to the other polls.

 

[Wild Bill]

Yeah, I agree with this. A good secondary plus a defense that at least has a desire to get to the QB will help for sure.

I guess when I look at the presumed depth chart right now along the front 7 though, I see:

WLB- Smith- awesome player and talent, although a bit young. Couldn't ask for anything better than him though. Who is his back up though????
MLB- Schmidt- even the staff admits he has some serious limitations. Grace- my not be healthy enough this season to ever play meaningful minutes. Deeb and a true FR behind them. This position is downright scary to me as far as quality goes and/or actual experience.
SLB- Councell is a question mark due to health. JO and JT as possibilities. In theory, I like what BC, JO/JT bring to the table, but JO and JT have no experience. BC only has limited experience. A certain concern at this position.

DT- Day- I feel good about him. Behind him though? Springman, Hounshell (injury and experience concerns) or maybe FR. Concerned about the depth.
DT- Jones- has played well in stretches, but has lacked consistency in his career thus far. See above for depth. So there is certainly some mild concern overall here.
WDE- IW/RO. I think we're excited about both of those guys, but on field production is lacking by both on their resumes. Depth? True FR. Some concern is warranted.
SDE- IW/IR- Same as above.

If we stay relatively injury free I think we could be better than last year. We had more talent on the line last year but nobody played to their potential. Lou and Day were hurt all year and Tuitt struggled through the season (played good not great).

This year Day could be a force at the three technique. I think he can be an elite player. Jarron isn't much of a downgrade from the level of play we had from Lou last year (no knock on Lou, he just wasn't healthy). Platoon Ishaq and Rochelle at SDE. It's a downgrade from Tuitt, but who knows, maybe one or the other steps up and it's only a slight downgrade. Ishaq is playing for a check this year. That should motivate him. WDE is up in the air but I think BVG can manufacture a pass rush. Springmann is a solid back up at SDE or tackle.

It's too early to tell with the linebackers. I think Jaylon is an elite player right now. He's young but he's so damn good. Mike worries me. I don't think it's crazy to assume Nyles can come in and play. It's not likely but it's possible (I'll take a Myles Jack year from him). Big if, but if Councell and Grace are healthy enough to play this year, I think the linebackers are better than last year.

Secondary, I think everyone can agree, should be very good.

A defense with an elite player at every level - Day, Smith and Russell - has me somewhat optimistic.

 

[woolybug25]

Wooly will eat a shoe, booger, and do a naked lap if the committee's poll does not look quite similar to the other polls.

Maybe even somebody else's booger... depending on the year, mind.

 

[bobbyok1]

I don't think the other polls will matter. The committee's evaluation, as explained on their website, is much more in-depth. At the end of the day it will look very similar to the other polls, but given all of the data they will be analyzing, which is much more extensive than the AP or Coaches, they don't need to use their opinions.

Bottom line, if we are 12-0 or 11-1, we will have a shot at the playoffs. If we are 10-2, we will have a shot at one of the premier bowls. Anything less than that and we won't have a chance. The other polls are a good reference for the first two months of the season, but they'll have little to no influence on the only poll that matters.

I have a hard time believing that the committee poll will look much different at all from a composite of the other polls. I do understand they will be factoring in other in-depth considerations. At the same time the biggest beef with the BCS was that it was a computer based system and this will have more of a human element in it. Would they therefore dismiss the "wisdom" in the numbers found in the body of other polls. I just don't see it being that different regardless of what other factors they will be considering. At the same time this is a new process and I might be pleasantly surprised by the rationale and uniqueness of their process. Time will tell. But for now I am going to error on the side of history which in my opinion is largely what they will do, factoring in the other polls, whether they acknowledge it or not. So in that case a pre-season poll that has ND at #17 is a good thing, because my hope is that the others won't be far off and that is where the committee will likely start them off in their minds.

 

[ResLife Hero]

Notre Dame: Five burning questions for fall camp | CSN Chicago

 

[NDWorld247]

Wooly will eat a shoe, booger, and do a naked lap if the committee's poll does not look quite similar to the other polls.

Of course it will. My point was simply that a.) it doesn't matter where we start out in any other poll and b.) the other polls won't be used as the selection committee has a defined criteria/process and it doesn't include the other polls.

I don't give a shit what Wooly eats. The naked lap sparks my interest though

I have a hard time believing that the committee poll will look much different at all from a composite of the other polls. I do understand they will be factoring in other in-depth considerations. At the same time the biggest beef with the BCS was that it was a computer based system and this will have more of a human element in it. Would they therefore dismiss the "wisdom" in the numbers found in the body of other polls. I just don't see it being that different regardless of what other factors they will be considering. At the same time this is a new process and I might be pleasantly surprised by the rationale and uniqueness of their process. Time will tell. But for now I am going to error on the side of history which in my opinion is largely what they will do, factoring in the other polls, whether they acknowledge it or not. So in that case a pre-season poll that has ND at #17 is a good thing, because my hope is that the others won't be far off and that is where the committee will likely start them off in their minds.

The polls won't be much different at all. They may be exactly the same. But this is where we disagree....in the past, your preseason ranking mattered. The belief was as long as you kept winning, you'd stay ahead of teams behind you in the polls, for the most part. With the new system, I just don't think it matters where the coaches or AP put you in the preseason. The committee will look at what you've done through 9 weeks of the season (7 games for us). That's exactly what the other polls do, but because they have a preseason ranking, there is some bias there that I don't believe exists with the new selection committee. And, if it does exist, it will be based on their "draft" rankings throughout the season.

So, your point of "being higher in the preseason polls is a good thing" might be accurate, but the only poll that matters in is the selection committee's "draft" polls, which are done behind closed doors and won't be available to the public. The coaches poll simply doesn't matter except for entertainment purposes.

 

[woolybug25]

I don't give a shit what Wooly eats. The naked lap sparks my interest though

 

[UmphreakDomer]

I don't think the other polls will matter. The committee's evaluation, as explained on their website, is much more in-depth. At the end of the day it will look very similar to the other polls, but given all of the data they will be analyzing, which is much more extensive than the AP or Coaches, they don't need to use their opinions.

Bottom line, if we are 12-0 or 11-1, we will have a shot at the playoffs. If we are 10-2, we will have a shot at one of the premier bowls. Anything less than that and we won't have a chance. The other polls are a good reference for the first two months of the season, but they'll have little to no influence on the only poll that matters.

i disagree with this. how much football do you expect these panel members to watch? and does anyone else think they are going to watch a higher percentage of any games that are "outside" who they have represented in the past?

playoff is better than BCS, but this system will have just as much inherent problems and controversy--especially with Power 5 continuing to push for complete autonomy.

 

[NDWorld247]

i disagree with this. how much football do you expect these panel members to watch? and does anyone else think they are going to watch a higher percentage of any games that are "outside" who they have represented in the past?

playoff is better than BCS, but this system will have just as much inherent problems and controversy--especially with Power 5 continuing to push for complete autonomy.

IMO, they will watch a lot of football and will review mountains of data to produce their rankings. The amount of work that will go into their rankings will be far superior to that of the coaches or AP poll. How much effort do you think they put into their rankings? Most coaches have their SID or someone in the office do it for them and there is a lot more bias involved (e.g. SEC coaches ranking 10+ SEC teams). Here is the process as explained on their website: College Football Playoff

On the 2nd part, I agree 100% with the controversy comment. There will definitely be controversy whether it's the #5 team getting left out of the playoffs or the #11 team getting left out of a "big-money" bowl. Controversy is unavoidable. I do believe the new system will be more fair though.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

IMO, they will watch a lot of football and will review mountains of data to produce their rankings. The amount of work that will go into their rankings will be far superior to that of the coaches or AP poll. How much effort do you think they put into their rankings? Most coaches have their SID or someone in the office do it for them and there is a lot more bias involved (e.g. SEC coaches ranking 10+ SEC teams). Here is the process as explained on their website: College Football Playoff

On the 2nd part, I agree 100% with the controversy comment. There will definitely be controversy whether it's the #5 team getting left out of the playoffs or the #11 team getting left out of a "big-money" bowl. Controversy is unavoidable. I do believe the new system will be more fair though.

yeah. I'm completely aware of the process. and i agree 100% with the coaches poll. i even think the was a WatchND video--maybe it was the NBCSports vid that showed Coach in his office making his picks, roughly, it went like this; "lets see, Alabama won. They stay at number 1..." and so on. and that what I'm saying all these people on the panel still have other jobs, right? maybe they have a staff that will actually watch, but my guess is at MOST, it'll be a spreadsheet of stats from each game and how that relates. everyone else will watch a Team of choice, i.e. Alma Mater or post coaching job and possibly the marquee game of the week.
what real good will it be to watch the Mac game of the week on Thursday night? even if a MAC or Big Sky team goes undefeated, A)does it effect their vote? B) is it even possible to get in? because even an undefeated Western Michigan or Toledo or even San Diego State isn't getting in over 4 11-1 or even 10-2 power 5.
ill bet a Billion vBucks.

 

[irishog77]

IMO, they will watch a lot of football and will review mountains of data to produce their rankings. The amount of work that will go into their rankings will be far superior to that of the coaches or AP poll. How much effort do you think they put into their rankings? Most coaches have their SID or someone in the office do it for them and there is a lot more bias involved (e.g. SEC coaches ranking 10+ SEC teams). Here is the process as explained on their website: College Football Playoff

On the 2nd part, I agree 100% with the controversy comment. There will definitely be controversy whether it's the #5 team getting left out of the playoffs or the #11 team getting left out of a "big-money" bowl. Controversy is unavoidable. I do believe the new system will be more fair though.

I'm not nearly as confident as you. For the most part, the selection committee members have jobs, and high-stress, long hours required ones at that. I seriously doubt Jeff Long, Condoleezza Rice, and Pat Haden will be watching game film of michigan, michigan state, ND, Texas Tech, Rice, Syracuse, and Washington State every week.

I think the entire selection committee and all this talk about how good and objective they will be is simply dressing up a pig. Their poll and the way they came up with their initial weekly rankings will be done very much like the writers and coaches/staff members decide their polls.

At least the corruption of the coaches poll won't be as strong and the laziness factor of these individuals compared to the media is much better, but I think you may be overselling the selection committee.

 

[NDBoiler]

I read in an Athlon article that the committee members all have iPads with an app that will allow them to watch any CFB game they want from any location, so that should at least help.

 

[woolybug25]

Right, I definitely agree. If I had to guess I'd say he'll redshirt too. There was that one other O-lineman on his own team tho that went to MSU. Can't remember his name off the top of my head but it had to at least be good to practice against someone like that.

I'm currently in Coloma but graduated from Watervliet...so northern berrien county. Although when I was about 5 years old til I was 11 I lived in Galien and could see the Indiana toll road from my backyard. Which is where my ND fanhood originated haha.

I remember your thread awhile back when you bought your old house in Niles I think, right? Pretty cool. And congrats on the old/new house.

Didn't see this response earlier. My bad and thanks.

I actually moved to Buchanan, right next to Galien. Berrien county representin'!!!

 

[UmphreakDomer]

Didn't see this response earlier. My bad and thanks.

I actually moved to Buchanan, right next to Galien. Berrien county representin'!!!

BOOM! even though the berrien/cass county line literally runs right through my parents living room!