20 states look to secede from US

[bmf175]

Dont blame them. As far as letting the President getting "back" to work, are you kidding me? I hope this gets pushed further. But I doubt it will. More of a show of discontent.

 

[theclassickiller]

Dont blame them. As far as letting the President getting "back" to work, are you kidding me? I hope this gets pushed further. But I doubt it will. More of a show of discontent.

Amen.

What's really telling is the blue states petitioning for secession. It truly is the minority rule in this country right now and the rest of the precincts are letting it be known that they don't approve.

Can you imagine if this really happened though? Where would the "old union" get the money to give to the freeloaders that voted this man back in office? They'd soon realize that all of the real world work skills and people that keep this country running are in the "new union." Then things would get ugly.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Sign me up for Texas.

 

[woolybug25]

Amen.

What's really telling is the blue states petitioning for secession. It truly is the minority rule in this country right now and the rest of the precincts are letting it be known that they don't approve.

Can you imagine if this really happened though? Where would the "old union" get the money to give to the freeloaders that voted this man back in office? They'd soon realize that all of the real world work skills and people that keep this country running are in the "new union." Then things would get ugly.

Funny... because I voted for Obama and I highly doubt you pay more taxes than me. Does that make me a freeloader?

The "You must be lazy or dumb if you voted for Obama" act is getting really old. It's not only totally incorrect but extremely rude to the people on this forum that did so.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Amen.

What's really telling is the blue states petitioning for secession. It truly is the minority rule in this country right now and the rest of the precincts are letting it be known that they don't approve.

Can you imagine if this really happened though? Where would the "old union" get the money to give to the freeloaders that voted this man back in office? They'd soon realize that all of the real world work skills and people that keep this country running are in the "new union." Then things would get ugly.

Plenty of free-loaders in the red states buddy...

 

[Irish YJ]

So you are pulling the whole if you don't agree with me you don't know anything? Well I for one disagree with you. Who the Hell knows what the founders would do if they were dropped into 2012. We know what they thought of issues back in the late 1700's and early 1800's. They had some fantastic ideas and they also thought that african americans shouldn't vote (and should be slaves), that women shouldn't vote, treated the native americans like **** and many other ideas that we find foreign now. The fact of the matter is that most people (by most I mean 99.9999999%) of people are products of their time and place and rarely rise above it. While I don't always agree with the way the parties lead our country, the whole idea of this isn't what our Founders wanted is asinine as who knows what they would think or feel in 2012.

My comments are not about the politics of yesterday or today, but the structure and responsibility of government itself.

 

[theclassickiller]

Funny... because I voted for Obama and I highly doubt you pay more taxes than me. Does that make me a freeloader?

The "You must be lazy or dumb if you voted for Obama" act is getting really old. It's not only totally incorrect but extremely rude to the people on this forum that did so.

Plenty of free-loaders in the red states buddy...

Neither of you is incorrect, and I never said everyone who voted Obama is a freeloader. But he doesn't win that election without the votes of those who want handouts. It's everywhere. I can testify to dozens of cases involving people I know and I'm in a red state.

And I didn't use the word dumb, that would be your word... uninformed is the word I like to use. Don't get me wrong, I like your contributions here Wooly, but we will never see eye to eye on this and in a couple of years we will know who was wrong and who was right. There are a few people on here that see eye to eye with you that have never contributed anything worth while on these forums though, and their act is really getting tired (not you WildMan).

 

[Old Man Mike]

.... GAWWWDDD. What a thread....

There are no States petitioning for secession. There are citizens within states recruiting signatures for secession to send to Washington. Such petitions could be created by anyone on any topic, as is our civil right, but have no "standing" at all. Each administration does a thinktank among themselves to decide how they are going to handle such citizen petitions in terms of simply ignoring them or giving a public response. The current administration decided just as a guideline to respond to petitions containing over 25,000 signatures. This doesn't say what that response has to be because the petition has no legal standing. If petitioners start to attempt to bring court action [which can not succeed by definition in this particular issue] or petition to put something on an election ballot, such behavior MIGHT begin to come close to something actually legally serious. At least in such a latter case, the petitioners could claim that their state's electorate supported it in the majority. That might put it in analogy to the situation in Quebec.

These actions are either: a]politically inspired to attack the current administration [the chances that those petitioners would say that they actually hate America is around zero]; or b]. primal scream therapy for those who hate the current administration and who feel powerless to do anything. One can choose to join in such behavior, "understand" and sympathize with such behavior but do nothing, "be understanding" of people with frustrations while not buying their reasons, or view these people as unhelpful to the general progress and civility of society and express one's displeasure with them. All four sorts of Americans should realize that this is, however, nothing with any general nor legal force to it, unless it would develop into a movement "in the streets" a lot larger than it is now. It would have to become the conservative libertarian equivalent of the social movements of the 60s. And that would mean some violence and "civil disobedience".

 

[Cackalacky]

Your state is also one of those petitioning for secession.

Yep. We got Boeing, Amazon, Google, BMW, and FORCE Protection with huge plants/sites in this state, plus one of the largest ports on the east coast. THere is no way SC secedes. This is all spilt milk from a bunch dumbfounded dipshits.

The Dems are trending much higher since Reagan in this state. Prior to Bush 1, SC <39% Dem for Presidents. Through today now 40-45% with BO getting 45% last election and 44% of the state this election. Two cycles away from 49-50%.

That is a trend in a lot of currently red states. The republicans have major message problem with latinos and women, among others.

And old man mike is right, it is a bunch of malcontents, not the states that are petitioning.

 

[Cackalacky]

Funny... because I voted for Obama and I highly doubt you pay more taxes than me. Does that make me a freeloader?

The "You must be lazy or dumb if you voted for Obama" act is getting really old. It's not only totally incorrect but extremely rude to the people on this forum that did so.

Exactly. I work full time, am a full time engineering student (I have taken no less than 13 hours worth of classes at night), and if I am lucky I might get 2 hrs a day with my kid and 3with my wife. Insulting to say the least.....I voted for Obama.

 

[RDU Irish]

I think it would be hilarious if President Obama called a news conference and announced that Texas would no longer be a state in 30 days. The look on peoples faces would be priceless.

I agree, hilarious and a half. Politically, just imagine how hard it would be for a Republican to ever win the presidency if Texas was not in the Union providing a guaranteed 38 Electoral votes for republicans to balast against CA and NY.

 

[IrishinTN]

I also get tired of sterotypes- the South is dumb and hates women. If you don't vote for Obama you are racist. There are a million of them. I am also getting tired of the demonization of living in a "red state".

And if you actually look at these petitions, some of them are started in states by people from different states. People could be trying to intentionally make states look foolish by having them join this "secession movement" in the first place.

And this isn't the first time secession has been mentioned due to angst with a presidential vote. After Bush in 2004 there was a good-sized leftist argument for some states to "secede", so don't paint this as a purely conservative or "Republican" reaction. Nor should you paint everyone in either of those groups as agreeing with this reaction.

When it comes down to it, we all realize this is either a political stunt (I'm sure someone will set up petitions for all 50 states soon) or, at best, a symbolic gesture that some folks aren't happy with the direction of the country. I think almost everyone except the fringe whackos realizes no states will actually be seceding.

I would have thought, considering our diverse backgrounds and cultures we would have more respect for each others opinions instead of resorting to the functional equivalent of name-calling because we don't agree (and I am talking to both sides, here, before anyone freaks out on me). Not agreeing is one of the great things about our country and that is that we are able to do it without fear of backlash. My greatest hope is that that aspect of our country would always be something we, and our children after us, can enjoy.

Considering the bickering that has erupted here between folks who only pull a lever (yeah, I went old school with that reference) for a candidate, is it any wonder that those charged to perform the leading of this country get so bogged down in bickering that they can't come to a mutual agreement that, in the end, benefits everyone rather than select groups? Not to me.

 

[Cackalacky]

I agree, hilarious and a half. Politically, just imagine how hard it would be for a Republican to ever win the presidency if Texas was not in the Union providing a guaranteed 38 Electoral votes for republicans to balast against CA and NY.

You tube "Nate Silver's warning to Republicans" by the Young Turks. If the republicans dont generate a message that appeals to Latinos and women fast, they are in danger of having Texas, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pensylvania, (possibly Arizona too) and Virginia go strong Dem in the next two cycles based on projected demographics. Not good for republicans. As I stated bove, SC is trending that way now.

 

[NYMIKE6]

I also get tired of sterotypes- the South is dumb and hates women. If you don't vote for Obama you are racist. There are a million of them. I am also getting tired of the demonization of living in a "red state".

And if you actually look at these petitions, some of them are started in states by people from different states. People could be trying to intentionally make states look foolish by having them join this "secession movement" in the first place.

And this isn't the first time secession has been mentioned due to angst with a presidential vote. After Bush in 2004 there was a good-sized leftist argument for some states to "secede", so don't paint this as a purely conservative or "Republican" reaction. Nor should you paint everyone in either of those groups as agreeing with this reaction.

When it comes down to it, we all realize this is either a political stunt (I'm sure someone will set up petitions for all 50 states soon) or, at best, a symbolic gesture that some folks aren't happy with the direction of the country. I think almost everyone except the fringe whackos realizes no states will actually be seceding.

I would have thought, considering our diverse backgrounds and cultures we would have more respect for each others opinions instead of resorting to the functional equivalent of name-calling because we don't agree (and I am talking to both sides, here, before anyone freaks out on me). Not agreeing is one of the great things about our country and that is that we are able to do it without fear of backlash. My greatest hope is that that aspect of our country would always be something we, and our children after us, can enjoy.

Considering the bickering that has erupted here between folks who only pull a lever (yeah, I went old school with that reference) for a candidate, is it any wonder that those charged to perform the leading of this country get so bogged down in bickering that they can't come to a mutual agreement that, in the end, benefits everyone rather than select groups? Not to me.

Well stated friend.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Sign me up for Texas.

I've lived in TX for only 4 years, and if we seceded, and war broke out, I would fight for Texas. (Probably not very well, but I would fight nonetheless.)

There is no reason why we can't or shouldn't be our own self-determined sovereign nation.

If the Canadians can put it to a vote, a la Quebec, then why can't the U.S. let Texans decide to stay or go?

 

[dublinirish]

Interesting to read this as a non-American. On a side note, some things to consider: seceding states isnt too crazy of a notion: If all goes to plan there is going to be a vote in Scotland soon to decide if they are to secede from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
People said the USSR would never ever break up and look at Russia now.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Interesting to read this as a non-American. On a side note, some things to consider: seceding states isnt too crazy of a notion: If all goes to plan there is going to be a vote in Scotland soon to decide if they are to secede from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
People said the USSR would never ever break up and look at Russia now.

For reals. Czechoslovkia, the Balkans, Hong Kong, Congo, etc., have all had peaceful transfers of territories in the last 30 years. That's putting aside the U.K., Quebec's referendum and Greece's almost certain expulsion from the EU.

 

[IrishinSyria]

No president could ever actually let a state leave the Union.
As for why Texas (or any other state) shouldn't be allowed to leave- it's because every citizen of the US is guaranteed a certain set of constitutional rights. As long as there remains one citizen in Texas who wants to remain part of the US, the government has to protect those rights and the only way to do so is to keep the entire state in the union. States rights are often just a thinly veiled attempt to trample individual rights.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

In our life time something big is going to happen. This election was a good indication that the two sides have two completely different visions for he future. IMO debt is bad and trying to nationalize health care is a bad idea. Below are the number of layoffs since the election. Data....In the past 48 hours, Westinghouse, Research in Motion Ltd., Lightyear Network Solutions, Providence Journal, Hawker Beechcraft, Boeing, CVPH Medical Center, US Cellular, Commerzbank, Iberia, Momentive Performance Materials, Brake Parts, Gameforge Berlin, Vestas Wind Systems, Husqvarna, ING, Ericsson, SRA International, PerkinElmer, Majestic Star Casino and Hotel, Center for Hospice NY, Bristol-Myers, Lower Bucks Hospital, Oce North America, Corning, United Blood Services Gulf, Atlantic Lottery Corporation, Welch Allyn, Dana Holding, Stryker, Boston Scientific, Medtronic, Smith & Nephew, Abbott Labs, Covidien, Kinetic Concepts, St. Jude, Hill Rom, Darden Restaurants, JANCOA, Kroger, ING, Caterpillar, Alcatel-Lucent, Umatilla Chemical, Rocketdyne >>>>>all announced layoffs.

 

[IrishinTN]

Cigna Healthcare did as well. We currently have 40,000 US employees and are paring down 1300.

 

[irishpat183]

Wow, this is embarrassing. Childish antics like this are why I'm proud to not be a Republican.

FYI- This also happened when Bush was elected (the 2004).....


Is it now "childish" and "embarrrassing"??

 

[GoIrish41]

I've lived in TX for only 4 years, and if we seceded, and war broke out, I would fight for Texas. (Probably not very well, but I would fight nonetheless.)

There is no reason why we can't or shouldn't be our own self-determined sovereign nation.

If the Canadians can put it to a vote, a la Quebec, then why can't the U.S. let Texans decide to stay or go?

What type of government would you adopt? If it is to be a democracy, you are going to have a demographic issue in 8 or 12 years. What will you do then if you don't agree who got voted in as President of Texas?

How would you fund an army to defend your new country? This is crazy expensive. Are you going to raise taxes to fund this? How is that going to play with the "right" in your new nation?

What do you do with the citizens who don't want Texas to break away for the US? There are bound to be millions of people who are not content. What do you do to appease them? You would be starting out as a extremely fractured nation.

These are just a few of the very, very many that would have to be answered. Starting a new soverign nation is far more complex than simply saying "i would fight for Texas." This entire conversation about secession is just silly. There are plenty of reasons why Texas shouldn't be allowed to be its own country. Every time an individual state (or worse a group of people within it who aren't content) doesn't get its own way, they can't simply opt out.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

What type of government would you adopt? If it is to be a democracy, you are going to have a demographic issue in 8 or 12 years. What will you do then if you don't agree who got voted in as President of Texas?

How would you fund an army to defend your new country? This is crazy expensive. Are you going to raise taxes to fund this? How is that going to play with the "right" in your new nation?

What do you do with the citizens who don't want Texas to break away for the US? There are bound to be millions of people who are not content. What do you do to appease them? You would be starting out as a extremely fractured nation.

(1) The legislature would be the same as the existing state one.

(2) The army would be funded through the general fund. We're only looking to defend the State, not invade Iraq. A state income tax can also be levied to replace the federal.

(3) The citizens who don't want a new country will have a tough decision to make. If you think this will be a "fractured" new country, then you don't know Texas very well.

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

(2) The army would be funded through the general fund. We're only looking to defend the State, not invade Iraq. A state income tax can also be levied to replace the federal.

The state of Texas may not be looking to invade Iraq, but what does the state of Texas plan to do if they are invaded? I'm not exactly sure what the USA policy would be in supporting a state that had recently removed itself from the USA. Not sure, but IMO I couldn't see the USA being in favor of helping out a 'player' that quit the 'team'. Though we do tend to get involved in a lot of international issues, so I guess I could see the US stepping in. Then again, they could just sit back and say, "I told you so".

 

[irishpat183]

(1) The legislature would be the same as the existing state one.

(2) The army would be funded through the general fund. We're only looking to defend the State, not invade Iraq. A state income tax can also be levied to replace the federal.

(3) The citizens who don't want a new country will have a tough decision to make. If you think this will be a "fractured" new country, then you don't know Texas very well.

Exactly. Those that know this state understand the mentality.

There is no state in this country that is as proud as Texas. We'd be just fine.

 

[Veer option]

I wonder if those states would still want to seceded if Obama was a Republican not a Dem....I think not. Bunch of wankers.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Exactly. Those that know this state understand the mentality.

There is no state in this country that is as proud as Texas. We'd be just fine.

It's funny how the Northern Liberals are like abusive husbands -- they constantly insult you, but then go crazy when you try and leave. Why do y'all even want Texas anyway? Just let us go.

Think of us like Palestinians. Texas is our Gaza.

 

[Bluto]

Don't mess with Texas! Lol. Anyhow, since this is turning into a Texas succession conversation it would be interesting to see how the Mexican drug cartels would react to such a thing particularly with the FBI, DEA and ATF out of the way.

 

[Bluto]

It's funny how the Northern Liberals are like abusive husbands -- they constantly insult you, but then go crazy when you try and leave. Why do y'all even want Texas anyway? Just let us go.

Think of us like Palestinians. Texas is our Gaza.

Oh all those poor conservatives who got kicked out of their homes and have to live in settlements. Anyhow, your analogy is a terrible one. A better one might be the snotty rich kid taking his ball and going home.

If Texas wanted to succeed I'm all for it. No more of that the Cowboys are Americas team crap.

 

[GoIrish41]

(1) The legislature would be the same as the existing state one.

(2) The army would be funded through the general fund. We're only looking to defend the State, not invade Iraq. A state income tax can also be levied to replace the federal.

(3) The citizens who don't want a new country will have a tough decision to make. If you think this will be a "fractured" new country, then you don't know Texas very well.

1. The demographics of the state are going to change sooner rather than later. What happens when a majority of your new country wants to go the same direction as your old country did in our last election? Are you going to divide up into a whole bunch of county governments?

2. Consider for a moment that your new nation would have no ships, planes, tanks, soldiers, etc. Starting from scratch means you would have to pay for all those things. You don't think that the US would just spot you a defense do you? Oh, and all of those military bases in Texas are the property of the US government. They wouldn't just give them up, so you would likely have to build new ones. The day your new nation gets its independence it has absolutely zero standing defense. This will cost your new citizens a fortune. The taxes you would have to levy on your citizens would be astronomical. The GOP who call Texas home right now are balking at returning to the Clinton tax rates. Their heads would explode if you had to raise their taxes this much. This isn't even counting the money they would need to maintain their infrastructure without US help. Will Texans do some sort of buy out for all the investment that the US has made in their new nation? I mean, you don't just expect us to walk away from all that investment without some sort of compensation do you?

3. Yes, these are tough decisions. I don't think those who want to be their own country have really thought it through.