InKellyWeTrust
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Can anyone give a brief and efficient explanation for Kelly's QB struggles? Word economy please. There has to be something fundamentally wrong here right?
'18 PA QB Phil Jurkovec (Wherever I May Roam Chud)
- Thread starter BobbyMac
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He recruits bad QBs; most players that move on prove that they’re bad; has had inconsistent coaching from his OC/QB coach.
Jurkovec might be literally the first QB with unrealized potential that left. And we still have no idea if he can be an NFL player.
ulukinatme
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Everyone knows the most popular QB at ND is the one behind the starter <s>on the bench</s> that transfers.
InKellyWeTrust
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That makes the most sense I guess.
NDRock
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Well since BC's O vs Duke looked better than ND's O vs Duke, AND since their D also held Duke to less points, AND BC did it on the road while we were at home.....
It's obvious we're going to lose to BC on Nov14.
Only after upsetting the #1 team in the country the week before.
Heard Dave Gordon’s kid is kicking for BC
Free Manera
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That is really all it is. None of his QBs have amounted to anything either as transfers or as pros. You would think he would get lucky once in a decade and end up with a future pro but I guess that’s unlikely to happen if you constantly bring in 5’11 three stars....
ulukinatme
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Well since BC's O vs Duke looked better than ND's O vs Duke, AND since their D also held Duke to less points, AND BC did it on the road while we were at home.....
It's obvious we're going to lose to BC on Nov14.
Duke didn't have the same fire they had last week. Blew their wad playing the Irish.
NDRock
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We’re due for some luck at the QB position. You put one of last year’s Playoff QBs on this team (Fields, Hurts, Lawrence, Burrow) and I think we can beat anyone.
Irish YJ
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Wimbush 2015 was 6-2 and a 4*.
Kizer 2014 was 6-4 and a 4*
Zaire 2013 was 6-1 and a 4*
Kiel 2012 was 6-4 and a 5*
So outside of PJ in 2018, prior to that we had 4 straight years of 4 star or better QBs that were taller than 6 foot from 2012-15. And those guys had good offers. All 4 had Bama offers and other big programs.
So gonna say it's not that we necessarily recruited bad QBs, or short QBs, or low star QBs. Either A) we recruited the wrong QBs for the scheme, and/or B) our development plain sucked.
I'm going with C, our development and scheme sucked.
Irish YJ
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We overuse the "we get everyone's #1 game". I can buy it sometimes. I don't buy it this time. There's no shame in them losing to us at ND. And they lost on their home opener, which they should have been up for just because it was a home opener.
By the way, I wasn't being serious about obviously losing to BC. At least not 100% serious lol. It was a bit of sarcasm given all the crowning of PJ going on after one game. He certainly may end up being great, but way too much anointing after one game.
Wingman Ray
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Any decent defense will carve him and that team up big time
N_D_Fighting_Irish
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Kelly is a systems guy. In order for him to feel comfortable with a QB, the QB must have advanced knowledge of offensive concepts to understand Kelly’s system. Most of the highly ranked high school QBs excel because they are physically gifted and understandably do not need to study film as much as the physically limited 3* gym rats or coach’s kid.
Time and again, Kelly has chosen the QB that grasped his system instead of developing the physically gifted player. Developing a physically gifted player would require Kelly to tweak his system/philosophy to take advantage of the unique skill sets that player offers. Kelly has shown that he is incapable of doing that. Kelly’s system/philosophy got him to ND. He knows no other way.
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N_D_Fighting_Irish
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It is too early to tell how Phil will fare; but producing while taking a beating is a good omen for him.
Irishman77
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Wisdom! Mega reps...
Irish YJ
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I agree when BK was calling plays. Not so sure that's the way it is now.
I think it goes for most of the O skill positions. You can have 50% skill so long as you do 95% of the little things right. The guys that have 95% skill or who are physically gifted sit and watch way to long.
BeatSC
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Not if that backup is Drew Pyne
BeatSC
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Book looked good for one quarter and let’s hope Austin returns soon and can help him stretch the field. Book doesn’t like to throw downfield if she someone isn’t wide open. My latest concern is he will not receive a draft grade and since this year doesn’t count he could possibly
be back another year!!! Not interested in seeing more Pine but Clark or Buchner please. Too bad Clark was out. He could have used some PT.
be back another year!!! Not interested in seeing more Pine but Clark or Buchner please. Too bad Clark was out. He could have used some PT.
BeatSC
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Just finished watching the BC game and Phil made play after play running and passing and was very accurate with a normal looking throwing motion. Kelly better hope Book outplays him when they go head to head. Zero happy feet and did not miss any passes and throw some nice downfield throws. What a bunch of BS that this guy never got to see some meaningful minutes. Maybe he will start to tank and we can stop wondering what might have been like we did with Hendrix, Golston and Zaire. Still miss what Wimbush did against USC. One of the best WB games when it counted I can remember.
NewEnglandGuy
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C'mon man, I watched it too. Limit the hyperbole. Phil threw a pick on a deep ball, into double coverage behind the receiver. He also over threw some short out routes...just to name a few of passes he did miss.
He lead an offense that was 4-12 on 3rd down, fumbled on a strip sack which his OL recovered, and took 5 additional sacks (BC has a touted, veteran OL with plenty of preseason hype, Book took half as many sacks with a good OL against the same D).
How about Duke committing 5 turnovers playing a roll in field position, momentum, and opportunities? BC only outgained them by 30 yards. To compare how ND fared against the same team: more yards, more first downs, and more points. I get games are turning into Book vs Phil, but the first half of this game in particular, Phil struggled.
-1st drive, 10 plays, 8 rushes, 2 pass, one complete, one miss, the WR made some nice moves after the catch, rush TD
-2nd drive, 2 plays, 1 rush, 1 pass, INT
-3rd drive, 3 plays, 2 rushes for short gains, 3rd down held the ball too long, sack, 3 and out
-4th drive, 4 plays, 2 rushes for short gains again, a designed pass play broke down and he tucked it for a few yards, and missed a throw on 4th down, turnover on downs
-5th drive, 9 plays, 4 rushes, 5 pass, 2 complete, 2 misses, and took a sack, punt
-6th drive, 7 plays, 1 designed QB run, 6 pass, 2 complete, 1 miss, 2 sacks, 1 nice run, punt
HALFTIME
-7th drive, 5 plays, 3 rush, 2 pass, 1 complete, 1 miss, punt
-8th drive, 3 plays, 2 rush, 1 pass, sack, FG
-9th drive, 4 plays, 4 passes, 4 completions, pass TD
-10th drive, 1 play, 1 pass, 1 completion, pass TD - busted coverage, wide open
-11th drive, 13 plays, 6 rush, 7 pass, 4 complete, 2 scrambles, 1 sack, FG
-12th drive, 4 plays, 4 rush, end of game
His overall stats look nice at the end, but you couldn't have watched the same game as me, unless you were wearing anti-Book bias glasses. He had 2 nice drives, found the open receiver on broken coverage on another, and handed off during a strong running drive, so 4 of 11 were positive?
Now I'm not a Book supporter. I believe with Austin, Lenzy, Johnson, Skowronek, Watts, McKinley, and Wilkins there is talent at WR and there is certainly talent at TE with Tremble and Mayer as receiving options. So unfortunately, we are most talent deficient, of all positions, at QB. I'm just not so sure Phil was the answer due to how he handled his business. All serious QBs early enroll now, that didn't help from the start. And to be the man, you have to beat the man. He was playing catch with Kyle Hamilton during scrimmages instead of developing positive reads and results during practice opportunities. He wasn't preparing like they wished/wanted. In summary, he never MADE the coaches put the young guy with potential in over the incumbent player.
irish4ever
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Oooh, well played! I didn't watch Phil play ball yesterday, but based on your recap I would say that he did a decent job on his first game of the year. Sorry, not scared yet! The Irish will have KH roaming around in the secondary, soooo ... Bring 'em on!
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You had him as either 15/30 or 16/30.
Both sites I just looked at said he was 17/23.
What gives?
Irish YJ
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Yup, IIRC, didn't toss over 25 on any of the sites. I was looking at SR this AM.
Not sure if penalties contributed to maybe a few more that he may have counted, but there weren't a ton of penalties either.
Irish YJ
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On PJ, aside from the delta on completions/attempts, I agree he wasn't as good as some are saying. Still not too bad for game 1 in a new system and on a new team. Overall, hope he does well. He can win the Heisman as long as he throws a couple INTs to ND and loses.
On Book, he's a 3* over achiever. I have somewhat low to moderate, and IMO correct expectations of him. He can do well so long as the game plan plays to his strengths. If you expect him to do well 20+ yards down field consistently, you're going to hate him.
On both though, I think it's going to take another month at least for both to settle in. PJ in his fresh-start new environment, and Book with his new OC and musical chairs of WRs. I think Book will settle in like late last year once he has a #1 and #2 WR emerge. Right now, it's a mixed bag and his most consistent targets with any chemistry are the TEs. All three WR spots IMO are still up for grabs.
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This is why I try to judge people on QBR because you can nitpick the hell out of any game and warp the narrative to whatever point you want to make.
Phil had an 84, which is good. I only watched part of the first and second quarters, where he looked (at best) inconsistent. It's clear that he did most of his damage on five consecutive passes in the 3rd quarter that accounted for over half his yard and both TDs. If one were to take these two drives out of the equation, his debut would've been a disaster, but that's not the way football works. You've got to account for everything fairly.
FWIW, Ian Book's "bad" day yesterday was a 87 QBR. So while Jurkovec's stat line looks good, the main reason his QBR isn't higher are all the drive killing sacks he ate and the interception. By the time BC plays ND they will have faced UNC, Pitt, VT, and Clemson and we'll have a much better idea of whether he's having a successful season or something else entirely. And realistically, we probably won't know for two years whether Phil is going to be a draftable talent.
Phil had an 84, which is good. I only watched part of the first and second quarters, where he looked (at best) inconsistent. It's clear that he did most of his damage on five consecutive passes in the 3rd quarter that accounted for over half his yard and both TDs. If one were to take these two drives out of the equation, his debut would've been a disaster, but that's not the way football works. You've got to account for everything fairly.
FWIW, Ian Book's "bad" day yesterday was a 87 QBR. So while Jurkovec's stat line looks good, the main reason his QBR isn't higher are all the drive killing sacks he ate and the interception. By the time BC plays ND they will have faced UNC, Pitt, VT, and Clemson and we'll have a much better idea of whether he's having a successful season or something else entirely. And realistically, we probably won't know for two years whether Phil is going to be a draftable talent.
Irish YJ
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Great points. I noticed the QBR comps this AM too.
Also noted that Duke's QB's QBR was 68 vs ND, and 31 vs BC. The delta mostly due to his 2 INTs vs BC. Still, a little concerned about our D.
USF was plain bad, but I think it was a game we needed to get some bugs worked out, but also have fun and build confidence for some of the guys. Especially the young pups.
NewEnglandGuy
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Haha you guys are making me recheck the math. And you’re right. Wrote when it was a Pass vs RB rush. Then sacks and QB scrambles and incompletions plus completions should equal passing plays - sorry for some bad wording. I think he only had one incompletion after halftime technically.
Rereading the rant, intended to relay 10/11 in the second half, 5/11 first half. Box score showed 17/23 not 15/22. Close. I didn’t mean to exaggerate his day as worse than it was. I didn’t keep a journal during the game but when reading the play by play it made sense at the time and I missed one and got one wrong.
I felt a lot of the comments embellished his game more positively than my negative recap and miscalculations. He only ran for 7 yards on carries after figuring in sacks, and I felt a lot were broken plays when watching live. Or more favorably - avoiding pressure in the pocket and if his first option wasn’t there. Tuck it. Hence 6 sacks. I didn’t feel he was making plays all over the place with his legs.
Before I switched over when the ND game started, it was early in the 3rd and before his passing TD (drive NINE), my impression was he struggled. When I watched the recording of the rest of the game after ND was over, he had some nice plays. He went deeper on more throws than Book for sure and ended up with a nice stat line that didn’t tell the whole story is all.
To be fair to Kelly and Book, I know it’s hard, Phil didn’t look all world yet.
Rereading the rant, intended to relay 10/11 in the second half, 5/11 first half. Box score showed 17/23 not 15/22. Close. I didn’t mean to exaggerate his day as worse than it was. I didn’t keep a journal during the game but when reading the play by play it made sense at the time and I missed one and got one wrong.
I felt a lot of the comments embellished his game more positively than my negative recap and miscalculations. He only ran for 7 yards on carries after figuring in sacks, and I felt a lot were broken plays when watching live. Or more favorably - avoiding pressure in the pocket and if his first option wasn’t there. Tuck it. Hence 6 sacks. I didn’t feel he was making plays all over the place with his legs.
Before I switched over when the ND game started, it was early in the 3rd and before his passing TD (drive NINE), my impression was he struggled. When I watched the recording of the rest of the game after ND was over, he had some nice plays. He went deeper on more throws than Book for sure and ended up with a nice stat line that didn’t tell the whole story is all.
To be fair to Kelly and Book, I know it’s hard, Phil didn’t look all world yet.