'18 PA QB Phil Jurkovec (Wherever I May Roam Chud)

[IrishLax]

Sooo on Driskell's latest podcast he mentioned that "multiple sources" confirmed that PJ was basically done dirty -- promises were made that the staff had clearly no intention of keeping, little to no time spend on attempting to develop him as a RS frosh, throwing him under the bus with regards to his abilities (when he showed otherwise in practice), people inside the Gug letting it be known that they intended to play Buchner from day 1, etc.

Can this possibly be true? And before anyone says, "Oh it's just Driskell being Driskell" -- please don't. I am very skeptical with his information as well, but something seems off with the PJ stuff. His recent IG post (maybe it was just something he liked on IG) seemed really out of character, and there have been rumblings of a fractured relationship with the staff for quite some time.

I dunno, something just seems off with this whole situation is what I keep coming back to. I know Driskell has an ax to grind with the staff, especially on the offensive side and ESP with Rees, but still -- it kinda adds up that PJ at least felt as though he was never given a fair shake and that's where all the resentment is coming from.

If they "intended to play Buchner from Day 1" then why are Clark and Pyne still enrolled?

I'm not going to make this personal and talk about who Driskell's "source" is here, or why he has been attempting a hatchet job on some ND coaches going back to last year, but he's just acting as a mouthpiece for the Jurkovec camp. It's that simple.

With regard to Phil being done "dirty" I don't know. The rumor was that some coaches had a problem with how he approached practice and preparation. They didn't find him coachable for a number of reasons. I take stuff like this with a grain of salt for the same reason I don't buy the stuff Driskell prints for the Jurkovec family as Gospel. Everyone has reason to paint themselves in the best light possible, and the truth is usually in the middle. I have no first hand knowledge on this one. But allegedly -- yes, there was friction; and yes, they felt comfortable moving on to Clark.

 

[Irish#1]

Sooo on Driskell's latest podcast he mentioned that "multiple sources" confirmed that PJ was basically done dirty -- promises were made that the staff had clearly no intention of keeping, little to no time spend on attempting to develop him as a RS frosh, throwing him under the bus with regards to his abilities (when he showed otherwise in practice), people inside the Gug letting it be known that they intended to play Buchner from day 1, etc.

Can this possibly be true? And before anyone says, "Oh it's just Driskell being Driskell" -- please don't. I am very skeptical with his information as well, but something seems off with the PJ stuff. His recent IG post (maybe it was just something he liked on IG) seemed really out of character, and there have been rumblings of a fractured relationship with the staff for quite some time.

I dunno, something just seems off with this whole situation is what I keep coming back to. I know Driskell has an ax to grind with the staff, especially on the offensive side and ESP with Rees, but still -- it kinda adds up that PJ at least felt as though he was never given a fair shake and that's where all the resentment is coming from.

From what we heard about Phil, he should have been pretty good, but in the limited action we saw from him, he looked like he needed a lot more work. There were reports that he wasn't applying himself which could be the basis for the friction. Coach tells Phil he needs to pay better attention in the QB room, do more film study, etc. and Phil doesn't agree. Now you have friction.

 

[EddytoNow]

I can't speak for what Phil (and other backup QBs) did in practice, but he was never given a fair chance during a game. If he was brought in at all, it was to run out the clock . Play calling was limited and he did not usually have the starters in with him when he played. There were several games when he could have and should have been brought in earlier.

Should Phil have been given more opportunities? Probably. Does he have a legitimate reason for transferring and not being happy with the opportunities he was given? Yes.

 

[dublinirish]

I can't speak for what Phil (and other backup QBs) did in practice, but he was never given a fair chance during a game. If he was brought in at all, it was to run out the clock . Play calling was limited and he did not usually have the starters in with him when he played. There were several games when he could have and should have been brought in earlier.

Should Phil have been given more opportunities? Probably. Does he have a legitimate reason for transferring and not being happy with the opportunities he was given? Yes.

is there evidence that he deserved them?

 

[Armyirish47]

is there evidence that he deserved them?

Recruiting rankings and Driskell's hot takes*!




*Note Driskell's hot takes are purely speculation as he works from home

 

[NDohio]

With Phil's size and athleticism I am going to guess that the coaching staff really, really wanted him to be successful. Phil's lack of opportunities on the field are the fault of Phil.

 

[ulukinatme]

After 10 years I trust the staff more times than not when it comes to which QB should be on the field. Everyone is always clamoring for the backup when things get rocky, yet when the backup does get their chance to shine they typically aren't ready or underperform.

Crist injured during Michigan game 2010 -> Montana and Rees perform poorly.
Crist out for 2010 season -> Rees is prepared as the starter and does better to close the season.

Crist starts 2011, fails miserably during South Florida -> Rees comes in to relieve him and plays better but does not have enough time to finish comeback. This is a case where Crist was broken and never regained confidence. The staff should have probably seen this one coming sooner, but the former 5 star was a shell and Tommy was the right direction going forward. When Crist spelled Tommy during an injury later in 2011 it cost us the USC game too.

Golson starts 2012 -> Rees spells Golson during Michigan game, Golson injuries, and closes out Purdue. This was handled well, the only time bringing Tommy in ended poorly was the Pittsburgh game as the whole team was tanking. It helped Golson get his head out of his ass though and start the comeback.

Tommy starts 2013 -> People whine and are sick of Rees, they want Hendrix to start over him. Hendrix struggles mightily when he's in, someone survives in a USC game that Rees built a lead in despite Rees going out and Hendrix not generating any 1st downs in the 2nd half.

Golson starts 2014 -> People happy Golson is back, starts out strong before the turnover bug begins biting harder than normal. Splits time with Zaire at the end, Zaire is MVP in the LSU bowl game.

Zaire starts 2015, looks like a world beater -> Team struggles in all facets to start Virginia game, Zaire gets injured. Infamous behind the scenes video has Kelly telling Zaire it's still his team after he's injured. After a rocky spring where Kizer nearly quit football, Kizer steps in to relieve injured Zaire and helps facilitate comeback. Offense is re-tailored to Kizer's strengths.

Kizer and Zaire split time to start 2016 - Inexperienced receivers and a weak running game lead to all kinds of offensive problems. Zaire has lost a step since injury along with his confidence (Much like Crist in 2011). Regardless the offense is a mess all together, along with a porous defense that leads to VanGorder finally getting the axe. This was an abortion of a season, no QB was going to save it, but Kizer was the best option at the time.

Wimbush starts 2017 -> A strong running game backed by Wimbushes legs leads to an improved squad. Wimbush struggles in his passing, especially after the Miami debacle, which leads to Book coming in and leading a comeback vs. LSU to beat the Tigers in a bowl game once again.

Wimbush starts 2018 -> A bold gameplan vs. Michigan allows ND to take an early lead on Michigan and then play conservative to hang on and win. Wimbush struggles quite a bit in the next games against cupcakes Vanderbuilt, Ball State, and Wake before Ian Book takes over. This was the right move, the offense improves until inopportune injuries and offensive struggles hit during Clemson in the playoffs.

Book starts 2019 -> After a close loss against Georgia in Georgia, total team collapse against Michigan in the rain. Lot of people calling for Book's head. Backup play is up and down too. Team continues to play hung over during Virginia Tech the next week. A late game rally proves to be a revelation, Book gets his confidence again and doesn't look back.

Other than not having a backup ready in 2010 for the Michigan game, and Crist being broken the following season, the coaches have been pretty spot on with the starters it seems. You can make a case they screwed up with the Zaire/Kizer stuff in 2016, but there was no saving that season...it was a cluster fuck of monumental proportions.

 

[NDMontana]

After 10 years I trust the staff more times than not when it comes to which QB should be on the field. Everyone is always clamoring for the backup when things get rocky, yet when the backup does get their chance to shine they typically aren't ready or underperform.

Crist injured during Michigan game 2010 -> Montana and Rees perform poorly.
Crist out for 2010 season -> Rees is prepared as the starter and does better to close the season.

Crist starts 2011, fails miserably during South Florida -> Rees comes in to relieve him and plays better but does not have enough time to finish comeback. This is a case where Crist was broken and never regained confidence. The staff should have probably seen this one coming sooner, but the former 5 star was a shell and Tommy was the right direction going forward. When Crist spelled Tommy during an injury later in 2011 it cost us the USC game too.

Golson starts 2012 -> Rees spells Golson during Michigan game, Golson injuries, and closes out Purdue. This was handled well, the only time bringing Tommy in ended poorly was the Pittsburgh game as the whole team was tanking. It helped Golson get his head out of his ass though and start the comeback.

Tommy starts 2013 -> People whine and are sick of Rees, they want Hendrix to start over him. Hendrix struggles mightily when he's in, someone survives in a USC game that Rees built a lead in despite Rees going out and Hendrix not generating any 1st downs in the 2nd half.

Golson starts 2014 -> People happy Golson is back, starts out strong before the turnover bug begins biting harder than normal. Splits time with Zaire at the end, Zaire is MVP in the LSU bowl game.

Zaire starts 2015, looks like a world beater -> Team struggles in all facets to start Virginia game, Zaire gets injured. Infamous behind the scenes video has Kelly telling Zaire it's still his team after he's injured. After a rocky spring where Kizer nearly quit football, Kizer steps in to relieve injured Zaire and helps facilitate comeback. Offense is re-tailored to Kizer's strengths.

Kizer and Zaire split time to start 2016 - Inexperienced receivers and a weak running game lead to all kinds of offensive problems. Zaire has lost a step since injury along with his confidence (Much like Crist in 2011). Regardless the offense is a mess all together, along with a porous defense that leads to VanGorder finally getting the axe. This was an abortion of a season, no QB was going to save it, but Kizer was the best option at the time.

Wimbush starts 2017 -> A strong running game backed by Wimbushes legs leads to an improved squad. Wimbush struggles in his passing, especially after the Miami debacle, which leads to Book coming in and leading a comeback vs. LSU to beat the Tigers in a bowl game once again.

Wimbush starts 2018 -> A bold gameplan vs. Michigan allows ND to take an early lead on Michigan and then play conservative to hang on and win. Wimbush struggles quite a bit in the next games against cupcakes Vanderbuilt, Ball State, and Wake before Ian Book takes over. This was the right move, the offense improves until inopportune injuries and offensive struggles hit during Clemson in the playoffs.

Book starts 2019 -> After a close loss against Georgia in Georgia, total team collapse against Michigan in the rain. Lot of people calling for Book's head. Backup play is up and down too. Team continues to play hung over during Virginia Tech the next week. A late game rally proves to be a revelation, Book gets his confidence again and doesn't look back.

Other than not having a backup ready in 2010 for the Michigan game, and Crist being broken the following season, the coaches have been pretty spot on with the starters it seems. You can make a case they screwed up with the Zaire/Kizer stuff in 2016, but there was no saving that season...it was a cluster fuck of monumental proportions.

This is an accurate portrayal of ND's QB situation in reality. Hypothetically, though, I wonder if any other team has had as piss poor a hit rate with 4-5* QBs as Kelly and, being fair, stretching back to Weis: Clausen, Crist, Golson, Zaire, Wimbush, Jurkovec, Kizer: not one of them was really outstanding. I realize there's some debate around Clausen and Kizer but even those two, in my mind, were not consistently good (forget great) QBs.

 

[NDohio]

After 10 years I trust the staff more times than not when it comes to which QB should be on the field. Everyone is always clamoring for the backup when things get rocky, yet when the backup does get their chance to shine they typically aren't ready or underperform.

Crist injured during Michigan game 2010 -> Montana and Rees perform poorly.
Crist out for 2010 season -> Rees is prepared as the starter and does better to close the season.

Crist starts 2011, fails miserably during South Florida -> Rees comes in to relieve him and plays better but does not have enough time to finish comeback. This is a case where Crist was broken and never regained confidence. The staff should have probably seen this one coming sooner, but the former 5 star was a shell and Tommy was the right direction going forward. When Crist spelled Tommy during an injury later in 2011 it cost us the USC game too.

Golson starts 2012 -> Rees spells Golson during Michigan game, Golson injuries, and closes out Purdue. This was handled well, the only time bringing Tommy in ended poorly was the Pittsburgh game as the whole team was tanking. It helped Golson get his head out of his ass though and start the comeback.

Tommy starts 2013 -> People whine and are sick of Rees, they want Hendrix to start over him. Hendrix struggles mightily when he's in, someone survives in a USC game that Rees built a lead in despite Rees going out and Hendrix not generating any 1st downs in the 2nd half.

Golson starts 2014 -> People happy Golson is back, starts out strong before the turnover bug begins biting harder than normal. Splits time with Zaire at the end, Zaire is MVP in the LSU bowl game.

Zaire starts 2015, looks like a world beater -> Team struggles in all facets to start Virginia game, Zaire gets injured. Infamous behind the scenes video has Kelly telling Zaire it's still his team after he's injured. After a rocky spring where Kizer nearly quit football, Kizer steps in to relieve injured Zaire and helps facilitate comeback. Offense is re-tailored to Kizer's strengths.

Biggest mistake BK has made with the QB room IMO. It led to...

Kizer and Zaire split time to start 2016 - Inexperienced receivers and a weak running game lead to all kinds of offensive problems. Zaire has lost a step since injury along with his confidence (Much like Crist in 2011). Regardless the offense is a mess all together, along with a porous defense that leads to VanGorder finally getting the axe. This was an abortion of a season, no QB was going to save it, but Kizer was the best option at the time.

It should have been DK's team.

Wimbush starts 2017 -> A strong running game backed by Wimbushes legs leads to an improved squad. Wimbush struggles in his passing, especially after the Miami debacle, which leads to Book coming in and leading a comeback vs. LSU to beat the Tigers in a bowl game once again.

Wimbush starts 2018 -> A bold gameplan vs. Michigan allows ND to take an early lead on Michigan and then play conservative to hang on and win. Wimbush struggles quite a bit in the next games against cupcakes Vanderbuilt, Ball State, and Wake before Ian Book takes over. This was the right move, the offense improves until inopportune injuries and offensive struggles hit during Clemson in the playoffs.

Book starts 2019 -> After a close loss against Georgia in Georgia, total team collapse against Michigan in the rain. Lot of people calling for Book's head. Backup play is up and down too. Team continues to play hung over during Virginia Tech the next week. A late game rally proves to be a revelation, Book gets his confidence again and doesn't look back.

Other than not having a backup ready in 2010 for the Michigan game, and Crist being broken the following season, the coaches have been pretty spot on with the starters it seems. You can make a case they screwed up with the Zaire/Kizer stuff in 2016, but there was no saving that season...it was a cluster fuck of monumental proportions.

 

[EddytoNow]

is there evidence that he deserved them?

There were a few games where the opponent was put away by the end of the third quarter, yet our backup didn't enter the game until the final 2 to 3 minutes. And when the backup entered the game, the offense consisted primarily of runs between the tackles. That backup was Phil. Hardly an opportunity to impress anyone.

 

[dublinirish]

There were a few games where the opponent was put away by the end of the third quarter, yet our backup didn't enter the game until the final 2 to 3 minutes. And when the backup entered the game, the offense consisted primarily of runs between the tackles. That backup was Phil. Hardly an opportunity to impress anyone.

The guy was throwing picks to Kyle Hamilton like the were free cupcakes. As a back up player in his situation, practice is what matters and especially fall camp and by all accounts he did not impress anyone.

 

[snoopdog]

Sooo on Driskell's latest podcast he mentioned that "multiple sources" confirmed that PJ was basically done dirty -- promises were made that the staff had clearly no intention of keeping, little to no time spend on attempting to develop him as a RS frosh, throwing him under the bus with regards to his abilities (when he showed otherwise in practice), people inside the Gug letting it be known that they intended to play Buchner from day 1, etc.

Can this possibly be true? And before anyone says, "Oh it's just Driskell being Driskell" -- please don't. I am very skeptical with his information as well, but something seems off with the PJ stuff. His recent IG post (maybe it was just something he liked on IG) seemed really out of character, and there have been rumblings of a fractured relationship with the staff for quite some time.

I dunno, something just seems off with this whole situation is what I keep coming back to. I know Driskell has an ax to grind with the staff, especially on the offensive side and ESP with Rees, but still -- it kinda adds up that PJ at least felt as though he was never given a fair shake and that's where all the resentment is coming from.

This absolutely cannot be the case. If PJ was lights out amazing, it would have showed. Buchner may never play a down at ND. Coaches would never cut off their nose to spite their face when it comes to talent.

But the good news is, hopefully we will get to see how strong a QB PJ is when he plays at BC

 

[T-Boone]

I think this year should it happen our backup will get some good playing time. I think the staff will really like Pyne.

 

[BobbyMac]

5*Phil

 

[IrishLion]

The guy was throwing picks to Kyle Hamilton like the were free cupcakes. As a back up player in his situation, practice is what matters and especially fall camp and by all accounts he did not impress anyone.

TO BE FAIR:

Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, and Russell Wilson would be throwing picks to Kyle Hamilton like they were cupcakes.


My real hypothesis on Phil is that someone on staff promised him a shot at QB’ing the team if Book wasn’t lighting it up, and someone on staff blocked that move and argued for continuity at the QB position through the struggles. Some combo of BK, Long and Rees, obviously, and Driskell’s attitude towards (1) the situation and (2) Tommy Rees in general makes it an easy guess as to who Phil’s sources are griping about.

 

[T-Boone]

The guy was throwing picks to Kyle Hamilton like the were free cupcakes. As a back up player in his situation, practice is what matters and especially fall camp and by all accounts he did not impress anyone.

Yeah, this is probably a bit unfair on Phil as he was probably the first guy throwing near Hamilton in college so he did not have the advanced warning on how big the trap is around Ham. Best off throwing to the other side of the field.

 

[NDdomer2]

Has there been one QB transfer under Kelly that panned it at his next stop? I can't think of any.

 

[CanadalovesND]

Has there been one QB transfer under Kelly that panned it at his next stop? I can't think of any.

Gunner had an incredible introductory season at Cincinnati, followed that up with a more average season in 2015, but fell off in his senior year. Injuries took a toll.

Andrew Hendrix had a decent season for Miami of Ohio, as he was Chuck Martin’s first starting QB there.

Golson was below average for Florida State in his graduate senior season. The hype he probably received was in his defence, a little too magnified. But still, I think we all expected to do him something more.

Wimbush really didn’t do much for UCF this past season, same goes for Zaire at Florida.

No NFL attention for any of these guys after college, either. Kelly has had talented QBs transfer, but most didn’t amount to much in college.

I hope PJ can be successful, but history shows that the QBs that transfer under Kelly really just can’t cut it on the big stage, leading a team

 

[ulukinatme]

Biggest mistake BK has made with the QB room IMO. It led to...

It should have been DK's team.

Nah, biggest mistake was not having a QB ready in 2010. That cost us the Michigan game and if it hadn't been for a complete stroke of luck that Tommy came on strong late in the season it very well could have sealed Kelly's fate early in South Bend. Maybe that's why Kelly has been so appreciative and helpful with Tommy's coaching career? (I like what I've seen so far).

As far as 2016, Zaire had paid his dues. He supposedly wasn't a great practice player at first, but buckled down prior to the injury. He looked great in the LSU bowl, and he completely embarrassed Texas the next season as a follow up. Jon Tenuta wanted some revenge when we went down to Virginia though, we struggled picking up the blitzes and VanGorder wasn't helping on the defensive side either.

When Zaire got injured, Kelly told him it was his team because prior to that we had only seen an incredibly shaky Kizer in the spring and nothing else backing him up since Golson left late following spring ball. Zaire was charismatic and had won the team over, I think that was part of the reason it was hard to just give the reigns to Kizer the next season. Kizer didn't have the same leadership strengths, but he was a better passer. It didn't really matter though, the lack of a strong running game in 2016 hurt not only Zaire's game, but Kizer's too...Kizer at least had passing to fall back on (Even if the receiving corps was young and inexperienced). Zaire relied more on his legs which were now rusty and coming off injury.

Even if coaching had been better, no QB was going to save that season. Maybe they never really intended to give Zaire a decent shot again, maybe they only inserted him to save face...I've commented how the play calling during Zaire's series at Texas in 2016 was a complete head scratcher...I dunno. Regardless, even if Kizer starts every series in 2016 that season was still going to be a cluster fuck. For that reason, playing Zaire at times during 2016 isn't the coaching staff's biggest QB mistake.

The guy was throwing picks to Kyle Hamilton like the were free cupcakes. As a back up player in his situation, practice is what matters and especially fall camp and by all accounts he did not impress anyone.

Agree. Going back to Zaire again here, if you can't prove yourself in practice then you can't expect you're going to win playing time come Saturday. The QBs that can't practice typically sit the bench for Kelly. Some of them may end up playing better if they happen to see the field on game day, but more often than not they seem to struggle. While the repetitions were few, Phil didn't really show much in limited game experience nor Spring games to warrant more playing time. I'd be surprised if he sets the world on fire at BC, but I'm sure he'll come out super motivated if he starts against his former team.

 

[Irish#1]

There were a few games where the opponent was put away by the end of the third quarter, yet our backup didn't enter the game until the final 2 to 3 minutes. And when the backup entered the game, the offense consisted primarily of runs between the tackles. That backup was Phil. Hardly an opportunity to impress anyone.

Playing time in a game is dictated by how well you perform in practice.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Has anyone else thought it was Tommy, just jealous of Phil's natural size and strength and see's himself more in Book, Pyne, Buchner??

 

[Rocket89]

people inside the Gug letting it be known that they intended to play Buchner from day 1, etc.

This is the red flag to me. We're talking about a 2018 recruit versus a 2021 recruit. There's just no way one QB that much older should be that scared of someone so much younger. And that doesn't even get into the convoluted communication that would have to take place for Jurkovec to be worried about someone showing up when he's a rising redshirt junior and academic senior.

 

[dublinirish]

Has there been one QB transfer under Kelly that panned it at his next stop? I can't think of any.

I got you fam

https://www.ysusports.com/sports/fball/2018-19/bios/vangorder_montgomery_vey8?view=career&pos=qb

 

[GowerND11]

I got you fam

https://www.ysusports.com/sports/fball/2018-19/bios/vangorder_montgomery_vey8?view=career&pos=qb

I remember following him during that year and thinking... this, this is better than I thought.

 

[NDdomer2]

I got you fam

https://www.ysusports.com/sports/fball/2018-19/bios/vangorder_montgomery_vey8?view=career&pos=qb

So Keil and MVG at the FCS level are the two best QB transfers under Kelly. Certainly doesn't give you the feeling Phil's going to pan out. He does get a couple years there though so hopefully that works in his favor.

 

[snoopdog]

Has anyone else thought it was Tommy, just jealous of Phil's natural size and strength and see's himself more in Book, Pyne, Buchner??

I see the italics but my guess is Rees identifies more with the Books, Pynes and Buchner’s who are cerebral than with PJ who relies more on the physical.

 

[dublinirish]

I remember following him during that year and thinking... this, this is better than I thought.

i think he got benched at some point but then the replacement QB got hurt for the year but then he got back in.

 

[EddytoNow]

Has there been one QB transfer under Kelly that panned it at his next stop? I can't think of any.

Has there been one QB under Kelly that completed his eligibility at ND that went on to even modest success as a starter in the NFL?

Kizer started one year at Cleveland where he was pretty much a flop. Did any of Kelly's other QBs go on to the NFL with any success?

The pattern of non-productive QB development seems to apply whether or not the QB stayed or transferred. Nearly all the Kelly-era QBs regressed in successive years.

 

[dublinirish]

Has there been one QB under Kelly that completed his eligibility at ND that went on to even modest success as a starter in the NFL?

Kizer started one year at Cleveland where he was pretty much a flop. Did any of Kelly's other QBs go on to the NFL with any success?

The pattern of non-productive QB development seems to apply whether or not the QB stayed or transferred. Nearly all the Kelly-era QBs regressed in successive years.

Tony Pike

 

[NorthDakota]

Has there been one QB under Kelly that completed his eligibility at ND that went on to even modest success as a starter in the NFL?

Kizer started one year at Cleveland where he was pretty much a flop. Did any of Kelly's other QBs go on to the NFL with any success?

The pattern of non-productive QB development seems to apply whether or not the QB stayed or transferred. Nearly all the Kelly-era QBs regressed in successive years.

To be fair, have any of Meyer's guys had success? Saban had A.J. McCarron as his NFL guy until this year with Tua and who knows if he will work out or not.