'18 PA OLB Matthew "Bo" Bauer (Notre Dame Early Enrollee)

Irishman77

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Bo would be a GREAT get IMHO....

If the gripe is a HS soph needs to gain 30lbs in 3-4 years, give me a break. From what is see, Bo is guiding the D before the snap. Quick off the snap, great awareness, sheds blocks and looks like a missile to the ball.

If there is anything to be desired for it is his finishing power. But again he is going against kids that are jr and sr's...

I will go out on a limb and say if we land him he is a 2 year starter for us.
 

GreyWorm

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Could have swore this staff brought in Jaylon Smith. Guess he just wasn't an elite LB to some:whoknows:


Getting a Manti, Jaylon, Hayes is great! It's just you need to get one to three of those guys every year versus every 3-4 years if you want to get to the playoffs.
 

GreyWorm

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What makes '18 special is momentum and their networking. 5 guys in, another on the way this week. And you're crazy as bat sh!t if you think they're all projects besides PJ.

Compare this to last year... On 8-1-15 the Class of '17 had two guys. And Brock Wright and Dillan Gibbons aren't going to win any Socail Media recruiting awards like the kids of '18 or P-Money.

The key to a successful sales campaign is momentum. Keep the closes coming early and often. Your new acquisitions then start selling for you too. Let the buzz on the street drum up more business for you. This is what ND is doing this cycle.

If you think Bo Bauer should be slow played for any reason, you should find a new hobby because you have NO idea what you are talking about. That's not my opinion, that's a P5 defensive coordinator's opinion.



I am curious to hear why Stepp, the twins and Ovie aren't projects?
 

IrishLion

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I am curious to hear why Stepp, the twins and Ovie aren't projects?

Because they're highly-rated Sophomores in high school? Two more years of adolescent development to go on top of their already-heralded skills might turn them into, dare I say, elite prospects?

Maybe it's too early to worry about guys being projects?
 

GreyWorm

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I'd take him for sure. He's the #2 rated ILB by 247 in the country.

Commit the framework of the class now. If Teradja wants to come then i'd take him as well.

Im of the belief that you take the quality 4's all the time and add any 5-star that wants to come, regardless of position, regardless of numbers. If we wait for the 5's to make their decisions we'll lose both more often than hit a home run. I'd take one less OL for another LB, it just means we can up quality and utilise more 5-yr seniors. When we have the inevitable transfer due to numbers, we can accommodate in the following class etc.

If i remember correctly the staff was telling the current class that the LB positions were full, but we're still going after a couple of recruits. Same-ish on the edge-rusher/DE front.

The system-fit and numbers shouldnt be that rigid. College football is about playmakers.

Teradja isn't going to come with a Bauer in the fold that is my point. It's a numbers game at the Mike spot and that hurts Notre Dame in negative recruiting, as you have several players that could end up at Mike on the roster.

Notre Dame doesn't have the consistent flow of linebackers to the NFL that some other schools have and that does play a part. Jaylon and Manti definitely help, but it's still other programs are tops. ND is close with this, but they need Onwualu to have a good senior season and then Nyles Morgan to finish strong. That will help get Notre Dame on the "Look we send LBs to the NFL" when they can show they had Jaylon, Onwualu, Morgan draft in consecutive years.

Also you hit the nail on the head, with your comment "Notre Dame waits out the elite players they are going to lose out". This isn't waiting a kid out. It's August 2016 and Bauer signs February of 2018. Like I said in a previous post, if he was signing in 2017, it's a no brainer. Lock him up. Now it's just a matter simply seeing where Notre Dame stands with other prospects.
 

arrowryan

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I am curious to hear why Stepp, the twins and Ovie aren't projects?

Isn't every sophomore, in some way, a project? I mean these kids aren't even done growing yet and they will certainly get bigger in the weight room.

Stepp has offers from Michigan, Michigan St, and Georgia
Ovie has offers from Michigan and Michigan State
The twins have offers from Auburn, Georgia, Michigan, Michigan State, and V Tech

These kids have some really good offers for still having 2 high school football seasons to play. They're going to continue to grow, develop, receive offers and get better before they even step on campus as a student.

The 2018 class is off to the best start since I've started to follow recruiting. The staff has done a great job so far by getting the front 7 guys early. I wouldn't trade our 2018 class for any other 2018 class so far and there isn't a reason not to be excited about this start.
 

GreyWorm

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Because they're highly-rated Sophomores in high school? Two more years of adolescent development to go on top of their already-heralded skills might turn them into, dare I say, elite prospects?

Maybe it's too early to worry about guys being projects?

The 2018 class overall might be one of the best classes since 2013 in terms of talent at every position. It's sickening how many elite prospects there are.

I hope every prospect turns into an elite prospect, but based off Notre Dame's recruiting under Kelly, that's likely not to happen.

They are taking good prospects and not great prospects. Trust me, I am the last guy in the world that is unhappy with the 2018 class. But if they are smart, they will utilize the early momentum and the season they are about to have as a positive with the elite kids.
 

GBdomer

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Could have swore this staff brought in Jaylon Smith. Guess he just wasn't an elite LB to some:whoknows:

I forgot to mention him somehow but ok you bring him in and then you go 3-4 years and sign maybe two prospects who is just different from everyone in their class and ready to roll right away.
 

NDdomer2

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Getting a Manti, Jaylon, Hayes is great! It's just you need to get one to three of those guys every year versus every 3-4 years if you want to get to the playoffs.

I forgot to mention him somehow but ok you bring him in and then you go 3-4 years and sign maybe two prospects who is just different from everyone in their class and ready to roll right away.

I am not disagreeing that it wouldn't be nice to get a whole position group/team of elite players, but I think if you land a Manti/Jaylon level guy you dont need someone elite next to them, you just need someone better than average. Which im not so sure that the staff did that when we had those guys.

Not getting Morgan ready to be on the field with Jaylon last year was a travesty. So I agree there is some missing the chances when we do land those guys. But to say we dont land elite guys at all is also very misleading.
 
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koonja

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Bama might field a defense of 11 five star players this year. Not a joke. If you think one per year on that side.of the ball will get it done, you're not going to like what happens if ND gets to the playoffs against the juggernauts.
 

Luckylucci

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Bama might field a defense of 11 five star players this year. Not a joke. If you think one per year on that side.of the ball will get it done, you're not going to like what happens if ND gets to the playoffs against the juggernauts.

First of all, Alabama can and will be beaten. They are putting together a dynasty, no doubt about that, but they've also lost 5 games in 3 years. That's really really good but not perfect. That means that 5 teams, who didn't recruit as well as them, at that time, beat them. So, again, star ratings only go so far. MSU with a backup QB beat OSU last year, they certainly don't recruit as well as OSU, things are possible with the right mix of talent, coaching, experience, etc. and it doesn't have to look like the Rivals top 100.

Next, it's like those folks to get made at life because they've never won the powerball. Just not going to happen. Or at least a very small chance of it occurring. We will never recruit defensive talent like Bama does. Plain and simple. Those 5 star players are not coming to ND or at least at the pace that Bama is bringing them in. Not sure what else there is to say. What can happen and should be discussed, is trying to find the Will Fullers, Deshone Kizer's, Josh Adams, and then occasionally getting a Jaylon Smith, Stephon Tuitt, Manti, etc.. When you add the Day's, Rochelle's, etc of the world. Its clear that we can put a team together that can compete by doing it this way. Then it becomes who plays better on that night. We also need the injury bug to persist and a more consistent defense. Which Notre Dame has proven they can field, with a competent DC. Hopefully BVG will be that guy.

I just find it hilarious that this conversation is started by saying ND needs to sign Players X, Y, and Z. When in reality, regardless of what BK and staff do, outside of just cheating/paying players, they aren't coming to ND. Again, this is an act in futility and we'd all be better off focusing our conversations around relevant topics that can be changed. Otherwise, its just whining. Bringing up a topic that can be improved is something that sparks conversation. Bringing up something that can't be changed, sparks whining and complaining. The conversation should be, where, who, and how do we find the right talent. Not, I can't believe we don't sign classes like Bama. Why can't we sign classes like Bama? Why doesn't BK get more Joey Bosa's to ND? Lol.

Last point is, these "elite" prospects that you all speak of. Please don't sit here and act like you thought Will Fuller was "elite" as a HS sophomore. Please don't act like you thought Josh Adams would be this good, when he was a HS sophomore. CJ Prosise, Sheldon Day, Cole Luke, etc. Players develop at different paces and come in all shapes and sizes. I'd much rather have ND stick to what is working which is finding the right guys. Then continuing to chase the "elite" players, that have no business being at ND.
 

IrishLax

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I am not disagreeing that it wouldn't be nice to get a whole position group/team of elite players, but I think if you land a Manti/Jaylon level guy you dont need someone elite next to them, you just need someone better than average. Which im not so sure that the staff did that when we had those guys.

Not getting Morgan ready to be on the field with Jaylon last year was a travesty. So I agree there is some missing the chances when we do land those guys. But to say we dont land elite guys at all is also very misleading.

Really interesting post, kind of hits on the bigger question of team building and recruiting focus.

Looking at the "playoff caliber" teams of the last decade or so, to have an elite team you basically need the following:
1. At least above average QB play, but a star at QB can make up for other shortcomings.
2. At least 4 Top 50 style draft picks or legit All-American caliber players in your starting 22.
3. At least 12 NFL caliber players in your starting 22.
4. No more than one "bad" OL, and ideally they're an interior player.
5. No holes on defense (i.e. a player or position group that can be exploited).

Go look at all of the good teams in this decade and they all have those traits even if they are stylistically completely different. You don't need to be dominant everywhere, you just need to check the boxes. Last year the problem was that Schmidt and Redfield were "holes"... but we generally came close to checking every box. In 2012, we truly checked every box by using a scheme that covered for "holes" in the secondary (until we played Alabama who was the one team that could run the ball on us AND had Amari Cooper).

If the coaches think Bauer flat out can't play, then fine. But if they think he's even decent then it's negligent not to take him... because we never, ever hit 85 and you can go big game hunting for other players knowing you have a solid player on board. The biggest mistake that the staff has repeatedly made over the years is not recruiting enough quantity which is how we get holes. Not recruiting enough ILBs under Diaco got us the problem with Joe Schmidt having to be an every down player. Not willing to take a chance on Sam Hubbard is the reason we have question marks for pass rush at DE. Not recruiting enough safeties (thanks, Cooks) is why we had literally no depth at the position last year.

We don't have these problems on offense, because we always recruit enough quantity and take enough chances at WR, RB, TE that even when something goes wrong (Folston injury+Bryant departure, for example) that we can figure something out that at least is "good enough." What happens this year if Nyles Morgan gets hurt? What happens if Drue Tranquill gets hurt again? It's possible that a very good team completely implodes on account of a single injury or two because we didn't go out and recruit enough quantity. Last cycle was the first time in awhile that I think we really did a solid job of getting enough players at every level of the defense...

5 DB (Love, Studstill, Pride, Vaughn, Elliot)
2 Hybrid LB/DB (Perry, Morgan)
2 LB (Jonesx2)
4 DL (Hayes, Kareem, Okwara, Ogudenji)

For comparison, the last Diaco class had:
2 DB (Tranquill, Watkins)
0 Hybrid LB/DB
2 LB (Martini, Morgan -- late scramble add thank Jesus)
8 DL... more than enough quantity, but many were late scramble adds after Diaco hit the road

Where were the true holes last year? Safety. Nickel. LB. Not a coincidence that those were the positions where we lacked depth/quantity of people with any experience.

So you take Bauer, and you go out and you recruit another (better) player if you think that's what you need. That's what the big boys do. You don't settle on John Turner and stop recruiting the position. You also don't pass, wait until the last minute, and then swing for a Mokwuah right before signing day. You take the bird in hand, lock it up, and thne go back out after the two in the bush. Very simple.
 

NDdomer2

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Someone hit lax with reps I cant atm.

But he hits my point on the nail's head and in much greater detail.
 

rtrn2glory

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Really interesting post, kind of hits on the bigger question of team building and recruiting focus.

Looking at the "playoff caliber" teams of the last decade or so, to have an elite team you basically need the following:
1. At least above average QB play, but a star at QB can make up for other shortcomings.
2. At least 4 Top 50 style draft picks or legit All-American caliber players in your starting 22.
3. At least 12 NFL caliber players in your starting 22.
4. No more than one "bad" OL, and ideally they're an interior player.
5. No holes on defense (i.e. a player or position group that can be exploited).

Go look at all of the good teams in this decade and they all have those traits even if they are stylistically completely different. You don't need to be dominant everywhere, you just need to check the boxes. Last year the problem was that Schmidt and Redfield were "holes"... but we generally came close to checking every box. In 2012, we truly checked every box by using a scheme that covered for "holes" in the secondary (until we played Alabama who was the one team that could run the ball on us AND had Amari Cooper).

If the coaches think Bauer flat out can't play, then fine. But if they think he's even decent then it's negligent not to take him... because we never, ever hit 85 and you can go big game hunting for other players knowing you have a solid player on board. The biggest mistake that the staff has repeatedly made over the years is not recruiting enough quantity which is how we get holes. Not recruiting enough ILBs under Diaco got us the problem with Joe Schmidt having to be an every down player. Not willing to take a chance on Sam Hubbard is the reason we have question marks for pass rush at DE. Not recruiting enough safeties (thanks, Cooks) is why we had literally no depth at the position last year.

We don't have these problems on offense, because we always recruit enough quantity and take enough chances at WR, RB, TE that even when something goes wrong (Folston injury+Bryant departure, for example) that we can figure something out that at least is "good enough." What happens this year if Nyles Morgan gets hurt? What happens if Drue Tranquill gets hurt again? It's possible that a very good team completely implodes on account of a single injury or two because we didn't go out and recruit enough quantity. Last cycle was the first time in awhile that I think we really did a solid job of getting enough players at every level of the defense...

5 DB (Love, Studstill, Pride, Vaughn, Elliot)
2 Hybrid LB/DB (Perry, Morgan)
2 LB (Jonesx2)
4 DL (Hayes, Kareem, Okwara, Ogudenji)

For comparison, the last Diaco class had:
2 DB (Tranquill, Watkins)
0 Hybrid LB/DB
2 LB (Martini, Morgan -- late scramble add thank Jesus)
8 DL... more than enough quantity, but many were late scramble adds after Diaco hit the road

Where were the true holes last year? Safety. Nickel. LB. Not a coincidence that those were the positions where we lacked depth/quantity of people with any experience.

So you take Bauer, and you go out and you recruit another (better) player if you think that's what you need. That's what the big boys do. You don't settle on John Turner and stop recruiting the position. You also don't pass, wait until the last minute, and then swing for a Mokwuah right before signing day. You take the bird in hand, lock it up, and thne go back out after the two in the bush. Very simple.

Very well put
 
K

koonja

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First of all, Alabama can and will be beaten. They are putting together a dynasty, no doubt about that, but they've also lost 5 games in 3 years. That's really really good but not perfect. That means that 5 teams, who didn't recruit as well as them, at that time, beat them. So, again, star ratings only go so far. MSU with a backup QB beat OSU last year, they certainly don't recruit as well as OSU, things are possible with the right mix of talent, coaching, experience, etc. and it doesn't have to look like the Rivals top 100.

Next, it's like those folks to get made at life because they've never won the powerball. Just not going to happen. Or at least a very small chance of it occurring. We will never recruit defensive talent like Bama does. Plain and simple. Those 5 star players are not coming to ND or at least at the pace that Bama is bringing them in. Not sure what else there is to say. What can happen and should be discussed, is trying to find the Will Fullers, Deshone Kizer's, Josh Adams, and then occasionally getting a Jaylon Smith, Stephon Tuitt, Manti, etc.. When you add the Day's, Rochelle's, etc of the world. Its clear that we can put a team together that can compete by doing it this way. Then it becomes who plays better on that night. We also need the injury bug to persist and a more consistent defense. Which Notre Dame has proven they can field, with a competent DC. Hopefully BVG will be that guy.

I just find it hilarious that this conversation is started by saying ND needs to sign Players X, Y, and Z. When in reality, regardless of what BK and staff do, outside of just cheating/paying players, they aren't coming to ND. Again, this is an act in futility and we'd all be better off focusing our conversations around relevant topics that can be changed. Otherwise, its just whining. Bringing up a topic that can be improved is something that sparks conversation. Bringing up something that can't be changed, sparks whining and complaining. The conversation should be, where, who, and how do we find the right talent. Not, I can't believe we don't sign classes like Bama. Why can't we sign classes like Bama? Why doesn't BK get more Joey Bosa's to ND? Lol.

Last point is, these "elite" prospects that you all speak of. Please don't sit here and act like you thought Will Fuller was "elite" as a HS sophomore. Please don't act like you thought Josh Adams would be this good, when he was a HS sophomore. CJ Prosise, Sheldon Day, Cole Luke, etc. Players develop at different paces and come in all shapes and sizes. I'd much rather have ND stick to what is working which is finding the right guys. Then continuing to chase the "elite" players, that have no business being at ND.

I know, any what's scary is, when Bama doesn't sign a 5-star, that low-player has just as much chance of being elite as the Will Fuller's, Josh Adams', etc. that ND finds. We're not the only team who finds diamonds in the rough - we're just more dependent on doing so than, say, Bama/OSU/Oklahoma. They have their Will Fuller's too, which is scary to think about considering they don't really need them because they have 5-stars all over the roster.
 

IrishLax

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I know, any what's scary is, when Bama doesn't sign a 5-star, that low-player has just as much chance of being elite as the Will Fuller's, Josh Adams', etc. that ND finds. We're not the only team who finds diamonds in the rough - we're just more dependent on doing so than, say, Bama/OSU/Oklahoma. They have their Will Fuller's too, which is scary to think about considering they don't really need them because they have 5-stars all over the roster.

Two of those are not like the other.
 
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koonja

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Two of those are not like the other.

Sure, but my point is, I hate when people think the 3-star guys we find are 'special'. Other teams find elite talent at the 3-star level too. So in the argument of '5 stars don't matter', it's silly (to me) to say 'but we have found Fullers, Adams', etc.' and say that evens the field somewhat, because it's Nieve to think other teams don't find them too. They do.

That's why when looking at other teams, I take their class ranking at face value. No one has time enough to truly flush out which 3-stars are actually big gets on other teams.
 
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IrishLax

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Sure, but my point is, I hate when people think the 3-star guys we find are 'special'. Other teams find elite talent at the 3-star level too. So in the argument of '5 stars don't matter', it's silly (to me) to say 'but we have found Fullers, Adams', etc.' and say that evens the field somewhat, because it's Nieve to think other teams don't find them too. They do.

Sure, but that's my point. You can say that about Bama and OSU. That's really it. They have evidence (see Darron Lee) of doing what you're saying... while also signing a bunch of five star players. Oklahoma doesn't sign a bunch of five star players, so that doesn't work.

The other schools that sign an abundance of 5-star type talent (FSU, LSU, etc.) ... what three stars are they turning into guys like Fuller? Or Eifert? Or even Prosise or Nick Martin. I ask that seriously, because I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head.

Don't undersell the job Kelly has done (particularly on offense) with identifying and developing 3-star guys into NFL caliber players at a rate that greatly exceeds the national average.
 

Luckylucci

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Sure, but my point is, I hate when people think the 3-star guys we find are 'special'. Other teams find elite talent at the 3-star level too. So in the argument of '5 stars don't matter', it's silly (to me) to say 'but we have found Fullers, Adams', etc.' and say that evens the field somewhat, because it's Nieve to think other teams don't find them too. They do.

Dude, you read what you want and refuse to even understand the bigger picture. You stated that we have, essentially, no chance if we were to get matched up with Bama or the "juggernauts" because of all their 5 star players on defense. Well, the same was said about Auburn (2), Ole Miss (2), and Oklahoma over the last 3 seasons. Those teams didn't have the star ratings that Bama did, and beat them. Therefore, its very possible to beat a team that has recruited better than you. MSU over OSU last season is a great example, and did so with a backup QB. Just facts.

Secondly, I never once said that ND is the "only" team that recruits 3 stars that turn into studs. But this staff clearly has a track record of doing so. So, instead of bitching consistently about why Joey Bosa or Jalen Ramsey didn't come to ND, they NEVER were going to in the first place. I'd rather have a productive conversation around "who" are the guys that fit at ND, and "where" are they. One is a productive conversation and one is a bitch session.
 
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koonja

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Sure, but that's my point. You can say that about Bama and OSU. That's really it. They have evidence (see Darron Lee) of doing what you're saying... while also signing a bunch of five star players. Oklahoma doesn't sign a bunch of five star players, so that doesn't work.

The other schools that sign an abundance of 5-star type talent (FSU, LSU, etc.) ... what three stars are they turning into guys like Fuller? Or Eifert? Or even Prosise or Nick Martin. I ask that seriously, because I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head.

Don't undersell the job Kelly has done (particularly on offense) with identifying and developing 3-star guys into NFL caliber players at a rate that greatly exceeds the national average.

I wouldn't know and I'll never know because none of us can follow other teams that closely. So to answer your QU, I really don't know, I just assume it's the case because it's silly to think they don't (IMO).

That part I do agree with, or at least wouldn't be surprised by.
 

Wingman Ray

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First of all, Alabama can and will be beaten. They are putting together a dynasty, no doubt about that, but they've also lost 5 games in 3 years. That's really really good but not perfect. That means that 5 teams, who didn't recruit as well as them, at that time, beat them. So, again, star ratings only go so far. MSU with a backup QB beat OSU last year, they certainly don't recruit as well as OSU, things are possible with the right mix of talent, coaching, experience, etc. and it doesn't have to look like the Rivals top 100.

Next, it's like those folks to get made at life because they've never won the powerball. Just not going to happen. Or at least a very small chance of it occurring. We will never recruit defensive talent like Bama does. Plain and simple. Those 5 star players are not coming to ND or at least at the pace that Bama is bringing them in. Not sure what else there is to say. What can happen and should be discussed, is trying to find the Will Fullers, Deshone Kizer's, Josh Adams, and then occasionally getting a Jaylon Smith, Stephon Tuitt, Manti, etc.. When you add the Day's, Rochelle's, etc of the world. Its clear that we can put a team together that can compete by doing it this way. Then it becomes who plays better on that night. We also need the injury bug to persist and a more consistent defense. Which Notre Dame has proven they can field, with a competent DC. Hopefully BVG will be that guy.

I just find it hilarious that this conversation is started by saying ND needs to sign Players X, Y, and Z. When in reality, regardless of what BK and staff do, outside of just cheating/paying players, they aren't coming to ND. Again, this is an act in futility and we'd all be better off focusing our conversations around relevant topics that can be changed. Otherwise, its just whining. Bringing up a topic that can be improved is something that sparks conversation. Bringing up something that can't be changed, sparks whining and complaining. The conversation should be, where, who, and how do we find the right talent. Not, I can't believe we don't sign classes like Bama. Why can't we sign classes like Bama? Why doesn't BK get more Joey Bosa's to ND? Lol.

Last point is, these "elite" prospects that you all speak of. Please don't sit here and act like you thought Will Fuller was "elite" as a HS sophomore. Please don't act like you thought Josh Adams would be this good, when he was a HS sophomore. CJ Prosise, Sheldon Day, Cole Luke, etc. Players develop at different paces and come in all shapes and sizes. I'd much rather have ND stick to what is working which is finding the right guys. Then continuing to chase the "elite" players, that have no business being at ND.

agree 100%. Problem is that Bama and OSU lost regular season. Once they get to bowl time, the team that runs on the field is a lot better than the team that played regular season. That is why an OSU can lose to Mich St or barely beat IU then beat ND pretty good in the bowl game when my bet would have been on ND beating Mich ST and IU head to head last year. Same with Bama in the NC game.

Ive never understood why other teams just come so prepared to play post season except ND. I dont get it.

But as for the recruits, I think it is safe to say the majority of the 5 stars have been 5 star athletes their whole lives which have lead to quite a bit of corner cutting and entitlement. As a university, neither OSU or BAMA have anything to offer except football (well Bama has a lot of hotties). A player doesnt go there for the education nor the diploma. Unfortunately, as our society becomes more and more entitled, you will see less and less choosing a school like ND.
 

Luckylucci

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agree 100%. Problem is that Bama and OSU lost regular season. Once they get to bowl time, the team that runs on the field is a lot better than the team that played regular season. That is why an OSU can lose to Mich St or barely beat IU then beat ND pretty good in the bowl game when my bet would have been on ND beating Mich ST and IU head to head last year. Same with Bama in the NC game.

Ive never understood why other teams just come so prepared to play post season except ND. I dont get it.

But as for the recruits, I think it is safe to say the majority of the 5 stars have been 5 star athletes their whole lives which have lead to quite a bit of corner cutting and entitlement. As a university, neither OSU or BAMA have anything to offer except football (well Bama has a lot of hotties). A player doesnt go there for the education nor the diploma. Unfortunately, as our society becomes more and more entitled, you will see less and less choosing a school like ND.

Essentially, that's my point. If you are going to be a fan of Notre Dame, you better get used to some of this, because it isn't changing. At least I hope it doesn't and I'm not even an alum. Just by being what ND is as an institution, automatically eliminates a large group of prospects. Before BK and staff have even offered them. It also opens doors for some but a majority of the Rivals 100 kids and those 5 star players we drool over, are not going to college "to play school", just how it is these days. We can either accept it and converse about ways to use it to our advantage or continue to rant about why it isn't fair.
 

IrishLax

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agree 100%. Problem is that Bama and OSU lost regular season. Once they get to bowl time, the team that runs on the field is a lot better than the team that played regular season. That is why an OSU can lose to Mich St or barely beat IU then beat ND pretty good in the bowl game when my bet would have been on ND beating Mich ST and IU head to head last year. Same with Bama in the NC game.

Ive never understood why other teams just come so prepared to play post season except ND. I dont get it.

But as for the recruits, I think it is safe to say the majority of the 5 stars have been 5 star athletes their whole lives which have lead to quite a bit of corner cutting and entitlement. As a university, neither OSU or BAMA have anything to offer except football (well Bama has a lot of hotties). A player doesnt go there for the education nor the diploma. Unfortunately, as our society becomes more and more entitled, you will see less and less choosing a school like ND.

I truly believe there are two aspects to this:
1. ND almost always gets matched up with the toughest possible "at large" team in a bowl game because of the way the contracts work. The only time this decade we've been favored in our bowl matchup was against Rutgers in the Pinstripe Bowl. Every other time we've been the underdog... a lot of other teams get to play some over-achiever type that isn't that good (see: Iowa). We never get that.
2. I think we wear down a lot worse than other teams. I think it's a lack of depth, coupled with having a schedule that lacks "breaks" in it like other teams get. On top of that, our players spend more time hitting the books and less time taking care of their bodies than I think a lot of schools do. So by the time we get to the bowl game, we're at our worst while some other teams at peaking. I don't really have evidence to back this up though, it's just my feeling.
 

IrishLax

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I doubt Bauer is a take for ND right now, which is why I'm ranting. We'll see.
 

NDohio

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First of all, Alabama can and will be beaten. They are putting together a dynasty, no doubt about that, but they've also lost 5 games in 3 years. That's really really good but not perfect. That means that 5 teams, who didn't recruit as well as them, at that time, beat them. So, again, star ratings only go so far. MSU with a backup QB beat OSU last year, they certainly don't recruit as well as OSU, things are possible with the right mix of talent, coaching, experience, etc. and it doesn't have to look like the Rivals top 100.

Next, it's like those folks to get made at life because they've never won the powerball. Just not going to happen. Or at least a very small chance of it occurring. We will never recruit defensive talent like Bama does. Plain and simple. Those 5 star players are not coming to ND or at least at the pace that Bama is bringing them in. Not sure what else there is to say. What can happen and should be discussed, is trying to find the Will Fullers, Deshone Kizer's, Josh Adams, and then occasionally getting a Jaylon Smith, Stephon Tuitt, Manti, etc.. When you add the Day's, Rochelle's, etc of the world. Its clear that we can put a team together that can compete by doing it this way. Then it becomes who plays better on that night. We also need the injury bug to persist and a more consistent defense. Which Notre Dame has proven they can field, with a competent DC. Hopefully BVG will be that guy.

I just find it hilarious that this conversation is started by saying ND needs to sign Players X, Y, and Z. When in reality, regardless of what BK and staff do, outside of just cheating/paying players, they aren't coming to ND. Again, this is an act in futility and we'd all be better off focusing our conversations around relevant topics that can be changed. Otherwise, its just whining. Bringing up a topic that can be improved is something that sparks conversation. Bringing up something that can't be changed, sparks whining and complaining. The conversation should be, where, who, and how do we find the right talent. Not, I can't believe we don't sign classes like Bama. Why can't we sign classes like Bama? Why doesn't BK get more Joey Bosa's to ND? Lol.

Last point is, these "elite" prospects that you all speak of. Please don't sit here and act like you thought Will Fuller was "elite" as a HS sophomore. Please don't act like you thought Josh Adams would be this good, when he was a HS sophomore. CJ Prosise, Sheldon Day, Cole Luke, etc. Players develop at different paces and come in all shapes and sizes. I'd much rather have ND stick to what is working which is finding the right guys. Then continuing to chase the "elite" players, that have no business being at ND.

Really interesting post, kind of hits on the bigger question of team building and recruiting focus.

Looking at the "playoff caliber" teams of the last decade or so, to have an elite team you basically need the following:
1. At least above average QB play, but a star at QB can make up for other shortcomings.
2. At least 4 Top 50 style draft picks or legit All-American caliber players in your starting 22.
3. At least 12 NFL caliber players in your starting 22.
4. No more than one "bad" OL, and ideally they're an interior player.
5. No holes on defense (i.e. a player or position group that can be exploited).

Go look at all of the good teams in this decade and they all have those traits even if they are stylistically completely different. You don't need to be dominant everywhere, you just need to check the boxes. Last year the problem was that Schmidt and Redfield were "holes"... but we generally came close to checking every box. In 2012, we truly checked every box by using a scheme that covered for "holes" in the secondary (until we played Alabama who was the one team that could run the ball on us AND had Amari Cooper).

If the coaches think Bauer flat out can't play, then fine. But if they think he's even decent then it's negligent not to take him... because we never, ever hit 85 and you can go big game hunting for other players knowing you have a solid player on board. The biggest mistake that the staff has repeatedly made over the years is not recruiting enough quantity which is how we get holes. Not recruiting enough ILBs under Diaco got us the problem with Joe Schmidt having to be an every down player. Not willing to take a chance on Sam Hubbard is the reason we have question marks for pass rush at DE. Not recruiting enough safeties (thanks, Cooks) is why we had literally no depth at the position last year.

We don't have these problems on offense, because we always recruit enough quantity and take enough chances at WR, RB, TE that even when something goes wrong (Folston injury+Bryant departure, for example) that we can figure something out that at least is "good enough." What happens this year if Nyles Morgan gets hurt? What happens if Drue Tranquill gets hurt again? It's possible that a very good team completely implodes on account of a single injury or two because we didn't go out and recruit enough quantity. Last cycle was the first time in awhile that I think we really did a solid job of getting enough players at every level of the defense...

5 DB (Love, Studstill, Pride, Vaughn, Elliot)
2 Hybrid LB/DB (Perry, Morgan)
2 LB (Jonesx2)
4 DL (Hayes, Kareem, Okwara, Ogudenji)

For comparison, the last Diaco class had:
2 DB (Tranquill, Watkins)
0 Hybrid LB/DB
2 LB (Martini, Morgan -- late scramble add thank Jesus)
8 DL... more than enough quantity, but many were late scramble adds after Diaco hit the road

Where were the true holes last year? Safety. Nickel. LB. Not a coincidence that those were the positions where we lacked depth/quantity of people with any experience.

So you take Bauer, and you go out and you recruit another (better) player if you think that's what you need. That's what the big boys do. You don't settle on John Turner and stop recruiting the position. You also don't pass, wait until the last minute, and then swing for a Mokwuah right before signing day. You take the bird in hand, lock it up, and thne go back out after the two in the bush. Very simple.


Can we make these two posts required reading for all ND fans?

Well done.
 
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