'16 CA QB Ian Book (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[T-Boone]

Not trying to be a jerk but who are the other teams? I can’t recall except maybe OSU 2014

Florida - Tebow.

 

[Irish YJ]

It is staggering how bad that is. The coaching is clearly subpar but good grief, how could it be that bad? Quinn needs to take the last train to Clarksville. Should have after the Ball State game like the Cowboys did in their bye week.

And I agree whole heartedly. The offensive line is by far the engine of any offense.

Going to give Quinn another year before I start bashing. I mean we did lose two 1st rounders. But I did expect better.

I assume you are talking about FO’s offensive line rankings. They are basically a mix of run success rate (the line does not get credit for big runs) and the pass protection rankings are 100% based on sack rate. Those are going to underrate the OL for an offense like ND that uses the run game to make big plays in exchange for a high stuff rate. Also a QB who runs out of bounds for 1, 0, or -1 yards instead of chucking the ball OOB is going to kill his OL’s rating even if it doesn’t have a negative effect on his team.

I'm using FO, but I don't believe it's 100% based on sack. There are separate sack ratings. I'll look closer later. But let's be honest. Running ratings suck worse than passing. If running sucks that bad, are you telling me pass blocking could be that much better. Logically doesn't compute. Other services besides FO say we suck too in both running and passing. Any way you slice it, the OL is just not good. I'd ask you what stats out there say they are good in either phase. Book's quick release and dink and dunk short stuff were the only reason the numbers weren't far worse.

Not trying to be a jerk but who are the other teams? I can’t recall except maybe OSU 2014

Bama's won most of their championships with non-elite QBs, and there's a lot of examples during their reign. But OSU with a QB by committee, LSU with Flynn, FL with Tim Tebow (you can argue if he is elite or not), FL with Leak, OSU with Kenzel,... and I can go on. Needless to say, it is rarer to win a NC with a sub top 50 line, than it is with non-elite QB.

They won with their third string qb, I believe. I can't remember who the QB's were when LSU won theirs.

Flynn with LSU.

 

[Irish YJ]

out of curiosity, i just looked at OL ratings for all teams with top 10 QBR quarterbacks.
ND by far has the worst OL stats. and Book is #8 in QBR. so in other words, in spite of the worst OL by far in the top 10, Book was still one of the best in the country. i'd bet it's similar if I went and looked at 11-25.

again, not saying he's an elite QB. i'm saying he's disadvantaged a ton from the start, and no one can say what his ceiling is, or compare him to other QBs or programs without taking into consideration how bad the line has been.

 

[Sea Turtle]

The thing is, I get losing two first round picks and Bars getting injured in a vacuum. But ND should be able to reload at O-line each and every year. O line, TE, QB should be our bread and butter.

 

[snoopdog]

The thing is, I get losing two first round picks and Bars getting injured in a vacuum. But ND should be able to reload at O-line each and every year. O line, TE, QB should be our bread and butter.

2015 team had McG, Q, Mustipher and Bars playing and finished 4-8......just saying

 

[ickythump1225]

Going to give Quinn another year before I start bashing. I mean we did lose two 1st rounders. But I did expect better.



I'm using FO, but I don't believe it's 100% based on sack. There are separate sack ratings. I'll look closer later. But let's be honest. Running ratings suck worse than passing. If running sucks that bad, are you telling me pass blocking could be that much better. Logically doesn't compute. Other services besides FO say we suck too in both running and passing. Any way you slice it, the OL is just not good. I'd ask you what stats out there say they are good in either phase. Book's quick release and dink and dunk short stuff were the only reason the numbers weren't far worse.



Bama's won most of their championships with non-elite QBs, and there's a lot of examples during their reign. But OSU with a QB by committee, LSU with Flynn, FL with Tim Tebow (you can argue if he is elite or not), FL with Leak, OSU with Kenzel,... and I can go on. Needless to say, it is rarer to win a NC with a sub top 50 line, than it is with non-elite QB.



Flynn with LSU.

A few thoughts:
-Alabama won without elite QBs because they had the most talented rosters and depth in CFB. Head and shoulders above everyone else until Clemson started catching up.

-Tebow was elite are you kidding me? A Heisman trophy winner and 2x Heisman finalist? Tebow was 35-5 as a starter. He was an elite college QB.

 

[BeatSC]

2015 team had McG, Q, Mustipher and Bars playing and finished 4-8......just saying

That team also hadn’t that POS Van Gorder for D coordinator which became too much to overcome. Had plenty of close games and should have been an easy 8win season but it was a team effort led by the crappy D. I remember Vaughn playing really well as a freshman at CB. Too bad he is worse now.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Going to give Quinn another year before I start bashing. I mean we did lose two 1st rounders. But I did expect better.



I'm using FO, but I don't believe it's 100% based on sack. There are separate sack ratings. I'll look closer later. But let's be honest. Running ratings suck worse than passing. If running sucks that bad, are you telling me pass blocking could be that much better. Logically doesn't compute. Other services besides FO say we suck too in both running and passing. Any way you slice it, the OL is just not good. I'd ask you what stats out there say they are good in either phase. Book's quick release and dink and dunk short stuff were the only reason the numbers weren't far worse.



Bama's won most of their championships with non-elite QBs, and there's a lot of examples during their reign. But OSU with a QB by committee, LSU with Flynn, FL with Tim Tebow (you can argue if he is elite or not), FL with Leak, OSU with Kenzel,... and I can go on. Needless to say, it is rarer to win a NC with a sub top 50 line, than it is with non-elite QB.



Flynn with LSU.

Last year ND averaged #35 across their nine OL categories.

The pass ratings are 100% based on sacks allowed. It’s separated out by down situation (e.g. sack rate on passing downs vs. standard downs). They are opponent adjusted.

 

[Circa]

You better be thrilled if he gets beat out. I know I hope it happens. I'm always for the best player playing.


.

I pray Ian gets the full spring and fall camp to do the things necessary to be the leader he can be.
Brian Kelly, Charlie Weis, Tyrone Willingham, O'Leary, Bob Davie, and Lou Holtz (That guy who faked a resume doesn't count). They all have stated in my lifetime of being all In with Irish. QB at ND Is the hardest role around. Some have stated It to be as hard as the President of the USA's. (being as trolled)
After reading some of these posts of Superduper Irish fan want to be's, It's not that hard to understand the way these kids can get demolished. It also seems to get more profound year after year with the way some of us can be so degrading to a kid that wants to do well.

Let me guess. You would say... I hope he reads this, He didn't jerk me on the 29th.

I would even go as far as to say 'FUCK YOU Sports Illustrated' for the reverse psychology BS. He didn't do that much to deserve a cover yet, they put him straight into the gun sight of all those Clemson players on bull hormones, (Ostarine) and the elbows to the throat showed the way of It.

As you can tell....
<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/AZvMr2XNJIxPi" width="480" height="320" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/major-payne-sensitive-vardoeger-AZvMr2XNJIxPi">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[IrishFaninTX]

That team also hadn’t that POS Van Gorder for D coordinator which became too much to overcome. Had plenty of close games and should have been an easy 8win season but it was a team effort led by the crappy D. I remember Vaughn playing really well as a freshman at CB. Too bad he is worse now.

Also had an unprecedented number of defensive injuries in 15 and 16 and the Frozen 5 in 2015 probably affected 3016 to an extent

I think Vaughn didn't get enough reps with both Love and Pride not coming off the field often

 

[Irish YJ]

A few thoughts:
-Alabama won without elite QBs because they had the most talented rosters and depth in CFB. Head and shoulders above everyone else until Clemson started catching up.

-Tebow was elite are you kidding me? A Heisman trophy winner and 2x Heisman finalist? Tebow was 35-5 as a starter. He was an elite college QB.

Tebow was there during the Urban/Mullen/Strong hay days. In the four years Tebow was there, and the year before, FL had 4 top 5 classes, two #1s, one #2. Can't remember the others, but their lowest rating was like 10th in one year. If you want to talk about Bama being the most talented roster, FL was absolutely stacked when TT was there. IMO, he was a elite baller, not an elite QB. And his OL and WRs were about as dominant as dominant can be. I saw him play 3 or 4 times vs TN and UGA. He was decent short, his speedy WRs made the long ball very very easy on him.

Last year ND averaged #35 across their nine OL categories.

The pass ratings are 100% based on sacks allowed. It’s separated out by down situation (e.g. sack rate on passing downs vs. standard downs). They are opponent adjusted.

so to my point, and to the point below, is there anything out there that says they are good a pass protection? And is it logical to suggest they don't suck when their running stats are far worse? Any credit for quick release / short game by book not giving up sacks? Is there no correlation between top QBRs and OL stats (ND being the absolute worst out of QBs with top 10 QBRs?

I don't understand your point about last year.

out of curiosity, i just looked at OL ratings for all teams with top 10 QBR quarterbacks.
ND by far has the worst OL stats. and Book is #8 in QBR. so in other words, in spite of the worst OL by far in the top 10, Book was still one of the best in the country. i'd bet it's similar if I went and looked at 11-25.

again, not saying he's an elite QB. i'm saying he's disadvantaged a ton from the start, and no one can say what his ceiling is, or compare him to other QBs or programs without taking into consideration how bad the line has been.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I do not believe it accurately rated ND’s offensive line last year and assumed there was a consensus that the 2017 unit was elite. Maybe you disagree and think that ND had a slightly below average offensive line for a P5 team in 2017.

If you use a lot of zone stretch runs that are high risk/reward and have a scrambling QB who generates a lot of short runs and extra sacks instead of a cement shoes guy who doesn’t extend plays and just throws it away then your OL is going to be systematically underrated by this algorithm.

 

[T-Boone]

I'm wore out just reading this.

try some osterine.

 

[T-Boone]

Now that I am recovering from my Cotton Bowl pity party I have decided I am not writing Book off. I am not convinced he has reached his peak and i think it is well possible he could continue to improve over the next 6 months the way he improved over the last 12.

 

[ND88]

You better be thrilled if he gets beat out. I know I hope it happens. I'm always for the best player playing.


.

I agree about the best player playing, and I am looking forward to the best person earning the spot. Kelly should absolutely start that best person whether it be Book or Jurkovec. I'm sure Jurkovec envisioned the possibilities he could achieve when he was the first person to walk out on the field in Texas. It had to be symbolic for him as a competitor. But I'm also sure Book experienced those hard knocks on the field against Clemson, took them personally, and is determined to not let that performance be his last note at ND. Competition will hopefully create excellence from both.

 

[Greenore]

I agree about the best player playing, and I am looking forward to the best person earning the spot. Kelly should absolutely start that best person whether it be Book or Jurkovec. I'm sure Jurkovec envisioned the possibilities he could achieve when he was the first person to walk out on the field in Texas. It had to be symbolic for him as a competitor. But I'm also sure Book experienced those hard knocks on the field against Clemson, took them personally, and is determined to not let that performance be his last note at ND. Competition will hopefully create excellence from both.

Love Book... he had a tough last game... bad timing, that's all.

I am so hyped for PJ!! If he can beat Ian in camp that will only be great for The Irish. Book has set the bar pretty high. That's a compliment.

Regardless of who is starting QB, I have a lot of faith in the decision of the coaches. If PJ is the starter next year, he beat out one hell of a QB and more power to him. If IB starts, I have a lot of faith and PJ is waiting to show his skills.

I would think a lot of teams are envious of our situation/challenges at the position of QB.

Unlike some previous years (IMHO) I don't think this decision splits the team but really defines leadership and loyalty. The way I see it anyway.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[Irish YJ]

I do not believe it accurately rated ND’s offensive line last year and assumed there was a consensus that the 2017 unit was elite. Maybe you disagree and think that ND had a slightly below average offensive line for a P5 team in 2017.

If you use a lot of zone stretch runs that are high risk/reward and have a scrambling QB who generates a lot of short runs and extra sacks instead of a cement shoes guy who doesn’t extend plays and just throws it away then your OL is going to be systematically underrated by this algorithm.

Not going to take the time to make it pretty, but here are the numbers for 17 and 18. I got rid of the raw numbers, and just left ranking. Immediately below are the stat headers and delta from 2017 to 2018. Below that are the raw ranks from both years.

Adj. LY (-99) / Std. Downs Line Yards (-87) / Pass. Downs Line Yards (-97) / Opp. Rate (-105) / Power Success Rate (+14) / Stuff Rate (-94) / Adj Sack Rate (+22) / Std. Downs Sack Rate (-9) / Pass. Downs Sack Rate (+76)

5-11-20-11-38-22-65-58-88
104-98-117-116-24-118-33-67-12

I would agree that moving to Book from BW improved our Pass Down Sack Rate (+76) due to quick fire. However you want to look at it, Stuff Rate took a major hit (how many times our RBs were hit in the backfield). To me, it's simply one of the best indicators if your line sucks or not. Standard down too. 2017 may have underrated the line because of BW's lack of whatever, but there are plenty of teams that have DT QBs that put up much better numbers stat/productivity wise and OL advanced stat.

BW had 136 rushing attempts in 11.5 games (11.8 rushes per game)
IB had 78 rushing attempts in 9 games (8.7 rushes per game)

Book did not run near as much vs Cuse and USC due to the rib/kidney issue which dropped his average a a few pts. Point being not that much difference in QB rushing attempts.

 

[Circa]

Florida - Tebow.

He had a great O-line. Urban Meyer style.

 

[BoredIrish]

In retrospect, the SI cover was the kiss of death.

 

[Circa]

In retrospect, the SI cover was the kiss of death.

Sports Illustrated was like..<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/5se31niXnLQU8" width="480" height="269" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/emily-ratajkowski-bikini-swimsuit-5se31niXnLQU8">

Hidden agenda was like..<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/3oz8xKUUcIDza2gJQk" width="480" height="269" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/americasgottalent-agt-americas-got-talent-3oz8xKUUcIDza2gJQk">

 

[ACamp1900]

Tebow may be a poor traditional QB but he’s one of the best cfb players in history and was a hell of a QB for what Florida was doing... he wasn’t ‘mediocre’

 

[Irish YJ]

Tebow may be a poor traditional QB but he’s one of the best cfb players in history and was a hell of a QB for what Florida was doing... he wasn’t ‘mediocre’

i think of him as one of the baddest assed and most elite ballers of CFB

 

[BobbyMac]

i think of him as one of the baddest assed and most elite ballers of CFB

He'd be my #1 pick if I was building a college football team this century. Vince Young would be second. Tebow has virtually ZERO downside and I'd go to bed each night as his coach knowing his homework was done and he was home in bed... asleep.

 

[Bluto]

i think of him as one of the baddest assed and most elite ballers of CFB

Isn’t that exactly what you want at quarterback?

 

[ColinKSU]

Book didn’t lose his chance to be starter when camp opens next season, but his play against Clemson should have lost him any guarantee he’ll be starter in Week One.

It’s clear you can’t win a title if you don’t have an elite QB in 2019 and I don’t think Book’s in that class. If Book’s better than PJ, then he’s better. If he isn’t, then I’m not shedding a tear.

 

[Circa]

Book didn’t lose his chance to be starter when camp opens next season, but his play against Clemson should have lost him any guarantee he’ll be starter in Week One.

It’s clear you can’t win a title if you don’t have an elite QB in 2019. If Book’s better than PJ, then he’s better. If he isn’t, then I’m not shedding a tear.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/5cpR6whgsvNhm" width="480" height="441" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/community-season-2-pierce-hawthorne-5cpR6whgsvNhm">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[Irish YJ]

He'd be my #1 pick if I was building a college football team this century. Vince Young would be second. Tebow has virtually ZERO downside and I'd go to bed each night as his coach knowing his homework was done and he was home in bed... asleep.

i'd love to have him simply on attitude and work ethic. like i said earlier tonight, he had a totally stacked team around him. FL was the Bama before Bama was Bama. Urbs/Strong/Mullens was an all star coaching cast as well. Honestly I'd take several before Tebow based on passing and running capability. but nobody comes close to his leadership.

Isn’t that exactly what you want at quarterback?

as above, only if i had the same sorta team surrounding him. put him on ND this season would not have made ND a NC. comparing QBRs from TT's 2008 season (3rd) and Book's (6th), there's not a huge difference. Not saying Book is TT level, just saying we already had a QB with a stellar QBR, and we struggled (not just Clemson). give Book TT's OL, percy harvin, aaron hernandez, and the FL defense (not to mention Urbs/Strong/Mullen), and we would have beat Clemson.

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"I strive every day to bring energy and enthusiasm to my teammates through my work ethic, attitude and behavior. This team will be built around trust. We will lean on each other as we strive for excellence in 2019."*- <a href="https://twitter.com/ian_book23?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Ian_Book23</a>, 2019 SWAT Team Captain<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoIrish?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoIrish</a> ☘️ <a href="https://t.co/IXYo3QJmRH">pic.twitter.com/IXYo3QJmRH</a></p>— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball/status/1091367712973033473?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[NDty9]

Your Thoughts?

Your Thoughts?

I know Ian has another year of eligibility after this year, and I THINK there was some thought that he would dart for the NFL after last years performance. I am just wondering what thoughts are about his future with ND next year, after just a few games of 2019???

(I know its early, just wondering)

 

[Henges24]

I know Ian has another year of eligibility after this year, and I THINK there was some thought that he would dart for the NFL after last years performance. I am just wondering what thoughts are about his future with ND next year, after just a few games of 2019???

(I know its early, just wondering)

I think a lot of people will have a better opinion to this question after this week.

Honestly, I thought Clark looked better than Phil when we seen them during the NM game. Obviously only seen a little bit of each but Clark looked smooth.