'16 CA QB Ian Book (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[Irish#1]

The real hurricane was the next year vs. NC State where we decided to call 30+ passes. Still the worst offensive game plan I've ever seen.

Thanks for dredging up painful memories. lol

Last year I compared him to a kid named Joe that played for the Irish. I really expected him to up his game this year, but it hasn't happened. Four games is a big enough sample size to know what you have. Let's face it, Book is a game manager.

 

[ND87]

Personally, I think Book’s issue is that he was believing his own hype, and is trying to “hero” it too much.

Stats-wise, he’s a Golson /Kizer hybrid:

https://www.onefootdown.com/2019/10...book-missed-tackles-yards-after-catch-passing

 

[ndbroski]

Thanks for dredging up painful memories. lol

Last year I compared him to a kid named Joe that played for the Irish. I really expected him to up his game this year, but it hasn't happened. Four games is a big enough sample size to know what you have. Let's face it, Book is a game manager.

I'm not even sure if he's achieved "game manager" status at this point. To me, a game manager is a QB with subpar athletic ability/arm strength but can stand in the pocket to make good reads, call audibles correctly, and is accurate short to midrange to move the chains. I'd say Book has above average athletic ability, but this year especially, he has shown that he can't consistently make good reads or stand in the pocket to deliver the ball. He was dead accurate last year but this year he's had some errant throws.

 

[Irishize]

Book was a 3-star who got flipped from Wazzu IIRC.

He was the flavor of the moment after the Citrus Bowl win.

He saved the 2018 season beginning in game 4 when he assumed QB1.

Now there is plenty of film on him and opposing defenses scheme accordingly.

I don’t criticize him too bad for the SC game b/c it was one of those games where Trojans threw all they had at him yet he still made some brilliant plays to win (pass to Finke, running for 1st downs, etc)

My bet is that Clemson had all they needed to make him a non-factor. They saw his limitations and dared him to beat them over the top. He hasn’t been the same since.

I’m no QB guru but I see panic & indecision as his biggest issues. He can physically make the plays and while his arm strength lacks, he can still make downfield throws that exceed 20 yards in the air...he just can’t do it with a safety back there playing CF (again...indecision).

I read where UVA basically kept all 11 defenders inside of 20 yards b/c they knew Book couldn’t beat them based on what they’ve seen on film.

We can cuss & discuss BK’s lack of development on prior QBs but I personally believe this falls on Book and it’s up to Long & Rees to coach/develop him from there.

BK seemed to truly pass the offensive reins over to Long & obviously trusts Rees as the QB coach. If that wasn’t the case, why the hell would Long stick around? BK is still the CEO so it ultimately falls on him but he hired Long/Rees to do a job and part of it is QB development.

 

[Irishize]

From Eric Hansen of SBT:

“At some point there was a buzz about him in the draft community, but I think it’s coming clear he needs that final year of eligibility.” — NFL Draft analyst Scott Wright on Ian Book

If this plays out, someone is transferring...just a matter of who.

 

[greyhammer90]

Personally, I think Book’s issue is that he was believing his own hype, and is trying to “hero” it too much.

I get the opposite impression. He doesn't throw interceptions or try to force the ball anywhere, but he also doesn't take chances and doesn't trust his WRs to make plays. My couch-psychologist view on it is that he wants to move on to the NFL, is aware that he's trying out for a draft spot, and is reluctant to make a mistake. Last year (at least at the beginning of the year), the NFL was not a realistic possibility, so Book was playing ball with the mindset of letting it rip. Now he's afraid to make a mistake, and its costing us the decisiveness that was his original calling card.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

From Eric Hansen of SBT:




If this plays out, someone is transferring...just a matter of who.

I don't think that's written in stone. After Book's final year of eligibility, PJ would still have two remaining (2021, 2022), regardless if he transfers or not. He already used his RS last year, why would he transfer and waste a year of eligibility elsewhere if he is one snap away from playing here?

Again, he would have two years of of being the starter basically all but guaranteed, in a system he is familiar with.

 

[Luckylucci]

I get the opposite impression. He doesn't throw interceptions or try to force the ball anywhere, but he also doesn't take chances and doesn't trust his WRs to make plays. My couch-psychologist view on it is that he wants to move on to the NFL, is aware that he's trying out for a draft spot, and is reluctant to make a mistake. Last year (at least at the beginning of the year), the NFL was not a realistic possibility, so Book was playing ball with the mindset of letting it rip. Now he's afraid to make a mistake, and its costing us the decisiveness that was his original calling card.

Agreed, honestly think it's the exact opposite of what was stated above. He needs to take more calculated chances. And in all reality, throwing a 50/50 ball isn't like it's really a 50% chance of getting picked off. He needs to realize that.

 

[ThePiombino]

I don't think that's written in stone. Book would have one final year of eligibility and PJ would still have two, regardless if he transfers or not. He already used his RS last year, why would he transfer and waste a year of eligibility elsewhere if he is one snap away from playing here?

Again, he would have two years of of being the starter basically all but guaranteed, in a system he is familiar with.

Do we know if PJ is on track to graduate early? If so, I think we could have something to worry about. I can't imagine a scenario (barring epic meltdown by Book) where Book isn't asked back for a 5th year. This is EXACTLY what I was worried about.

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[Some Irish Bloke]

Agreed, honestly think it's the exact opposite of what was stated above. He needs to take more calculated chances. And in all reality, throwing a 50/50 ball isn't like it's really a 50% chance of getting picked off. He needs to realize that.

Especially if he is throwing one to Claypool, Kmet, or Tremble. These are big boys that should have a size advantage across the board, and have great athleticism to make something happen.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Do we know if PJ is on track to graduate early? If so, I think we could have something to worry about. I can't imagine a scenario (barring epic meltdown by Book) where Book isn't asked back for a 5th year. This is EXACTLY what I was worried about.

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I can. If Book is as pedestrian in 2020 as he has been to date in 2019, why would they want him back and taking up a scholarship? Especially considering they have a boat load of talent being held up behind him (PJ, Clark and Pyne, with TB on the way), not to mention the staff has been right up against the scholarship limit the past couple of years.

Either Book balls out in 2020 and gets drafted, or he puts that 4 for 40 to use. I don't think there's any way he's back for a fifth.

 

[BeauBenken]

I think we have just put a lot on Ian's plate and other position groups not playing up to our expectations have made his job that much harder.

I don't think he has played bad, but he hasn't been able to keep that 72% completion rate going. I don't think he has regressed. We just are not making it easy on him.

 

[EvilleIrish]

I can. If Book is as pedestrian in 2020 as he has been to date in 2019, why would they want him back and taking up a scholarship? Especially considering they have a boat load of talent being held up behind him (PJ, Clark and Pyne, with TB on the way), not to mention the staff has been right up against the scholarship limit the past couple of years.

Either Book balls out in 2020 and gets drafted, or he puts that 4 for 40 to use. I don't think there's any way he's back for a fifth.

I just can't wrap my head around not asking a starting QB back who could theoretically have a 19-2 record as a starter.

 

[Irish#1]

I get the opposite impression. He doesn't throw interceptions or try to force the ball anywhere, but he also doesn't take chances and doesn't trust his WRs to make plays. My couch-psychologist view on it is that he wants to move on to the NFL, is aware that he's trying out for a draft spot, and is reluctant to make a mistake. Last year (at least at the beginning of the year), the NFL was not a realistic possibility, so Book was playing ball with the mindset of letting it rip. Now he's afraid to make a mistake, and its costing us the decisiveness that was his original calling card.

If that's what he's worried about, he's hurting himself. Scouts want to see that he is capable of making ALL of the throws and not just in practice or a pro day. You have to show them you can do it in a game. Book just isn't an NFL caliber QB, even as a backup. He's short (for a QB) and has an average arm. Brees is short, but he proved it over and over that he could make every throw while at Purdue.

 

[ThePiombino]

I can. If Book is as pedestrian in 2020 as he has been to date in 2019, why would they want him back and taking up a scholarship? Especially considering they have a boat load of talent being held up behind him (PJ, Clark and Pyne, with TB on the way), not to mention the staff has been right up against the scholarship limit the past couple of years.

Either Book balls out in 2020 and gets drafted, or he puts that 4 for 40 to use. I don't think there's any way he's back for a fifth.

I doubt too many would agree that if Book completes the season at his current pace of production he wouldn't be asked back for a 5th year.

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[NDisme]

Kelly gave the reigns to Everett as a rs freshman the year after Tommy Rees came in as the started for the entire year. If PJ is good enough there is no reason to not do it again.

 

[BeatSC]

I just can't wrap my head around not asking a starting QB back who could theoretically have a 19-2 record as a starter.

What was Wimbush's record as a starter and it didn't sound like they were trying to get him to come back. The game he played against USC was as pretty as it gets for me. Better than Tony Rice like numbers under the lights and pressure.

 

[Irishize]

I just can't wrap my head around not asking a starting QB back who could theoretically have a 19-2 record as a starter.

Assuming ND finishes the season out w/ no losses. Yes, they’ll be expected to win all the remaining contests but it’s CFB...anything can happen. If his performance falls off a cliff ala Golson in 2014, he won’t be back period IMO.

Just like they won’t ask McKinley back next year unless they truly need bodies (gotta assume Austin returns). Yes, he redeemed himself & has contributed w/ some special plays in the NM game, he’ll be better off grad-transferring if ND returns all their eligble WR.

 

[BeatSC]

Assuming ND finishes the season out w/ no losses. Yes, they’ll be expected to win all the remaining contests but it’s CFB...anything can happen. If his performance falls off a cliff ala Golson in 2014, he won’t be back period IMO.

Just like they won’t ask McKinley back next year unless they truly need bodies (gotta assume Austin returns). Yes, he redeemed himself & has contributed w/ some special plays in the NM game, he’ll be better off grad-transferring if ND returns all their eligble WR.

Will we have any big body WR next year without him? Would like to see him get a few more targets to better assess. How many chances has Finke had? Too many imo.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Will we have any big body WR next year without him? Would like to see him get a few more targets to better assess. How many chances has Finke had? Too many imo.

Off the top of my head the only big body WR's I can think of, excluding Von, are:
Micah Jones
Cam Hart
Jordan Johnson
And Kevin Austin if he is back.

I do agree with you that if Von wants to come back for a 5th year I would welcome him.

 

[IrishLax]

I just can't wrap my head around not asking a starting QB back who could theoretically have a 19-2 record as a starter.

Tua at Bama. If you are confident the other guy is better, you can bench the starter that's a winner. But you have to be 100% sure.

 

[stlnd01]

Tua at Bama. If you are confident the other guy is better, you can bench the starter that's a winner. But you have to be 100% sure.

Maybe it’s semantics but I think there’s a difference between sitting a starter mid season if you have someone you think is better, vs having a starter you don’t invite back for a fifth year. Hurts and Wimbush lost their starting jobs and transferred for a shot at playing time elsewhere. But if Wimbush, for whatever reason, had wanted to stay at Notre Dame for 2019 I doubt Kelly would’ve said no.
Barring a catastrophe, Book will almost certainly be our starting QB at the end of this season. If he wants to come back, we’d be crazy to say no. That said, he doesn’t own the starting job forever. If Phil beats him out for the job next spring or fall, so be it. Then we have two good QBs.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Maybe it’s semantics but I think there’s a difference between sitting a starter mid season if you have someone you think is better, vs having a starter you don’t invite back for a fifth year. Hurts and Wimbush lost their starting jobs and transferred for a shot at playing time elsewhere. But if Wimbush, for whatever reason, had wanted to stay at Notre Dame for 2019 I doubt Kelly would’ve said no.
Barring a catastrophe, Book will almost certainly be our starting QB at the end of this season. If he wants to come back, we’d be crazy to say no. That said, he doesn’t own the starting job forever. If Phil beats him out for the job next spring or fall, so be it. Then we have two good QBs.

At this point it would be disappointing if Phil doesn't win the job next year. Not because I dislike Book or think he should be replaced by just anyone but because Phil isn't who we thought he was. He has every intrinsic physical advantage over Book except maybe quickness. I think I've seen enough of Book to know this is what he is, not great but not bad either. Good enough to win you a lot of games but not good enough to win a championship. I think most of us still think Phil could crank ND into that next gear on offense once he figures it out, though maybe he never will.

 

[BobbyMac]

I'll try and not make this sound like a fanboi hot take:

I know ND & Book can win 11 games a year, basically every year now, that's great. Well I'm kinda over that.

ND has some special offensive players coming in, the kind you need to win an NC They also have some elite lineman in the pipeline. I'm all for a 11-2 or a even a 10-3 season in '20 to make a run in '21 when the schedule is set up to make that run.

Football is usually a win now sport. That's one of the things that makes baseball interresting to me. Teams can tell their fans they are blowing it up and on a multi year plan, build a contender through a youth movement. Just watched the Cubs & Astros do just that.

Book's never winning an NC as a starter at ND. Love the guy but he doesn't have the raw physical skills to beat you 3 ways. I don't know if Phil is the next Randall Cunningham but that's the kind of player he was for 3 years vs way above average competition in HS. If you want to win an NC, you have to hope Phil gets starter snaps asap. Because what makes guys great in college isn't that they were 5*'s in HS, it's talent (regardless of stars) and snaps. Difference makers get snaps. That's why there are 0* / 2* / 3* guys drafted in the first two rounds in every NFL draft = becuz they weren't "good enough" to get offered by an elite football factory and luckily for them, ended up some place where they got 2-3-4 years of snaps.

Phil needs snaps and I need a National Championship.

I'm not calling on Kelly to make a change right now. I'd like to think I'd have the sack to do it if I was ND's HC but there are politics, pressures and realities that are way above my pay grade. So I'll secretly hope for a tweeked ankle or maybe a dislocated finger on QB1's right hand.

. . . and just to be clear, Phil goes in the draft after the '21 season and Tyler Buchner starts as a RS Fr. cuz he needs snaps too. He'll be playing with elite talent that's experienced too.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I'll try and not make this sound like a fanboi hot take:

I know ND & Book can win 11 games a year, basically every year now, that's great. Well I'm kinda over that.

ND has some special offensive players coming in, the kind you need to win an NC They also have some elite lineman in the pipeline. I'm all for a 11-2 or a even a 10-3 season in '20 to make a run in '21 when the schedule is set up to make that run.

Football is usually a win now sport. That's one of the things that makes baseball interresting to me. Teams can tell their fans they are blowing it up and on a multi year plan, build a contender through a youth movement. Just watched the Cubs & Astros do just that.

Book's never winning an NC as a starter at ND. Love the guy but he doesn't have the raw physical skills to beat you 3 ways. I don't know if Phil is the next Randall Cunningham but that's the kind of player he was for 3 years vs way above average competition in HS. If you want to win an NC, you have to hope Phil gets starter snaps asap. Because what makes guys great in college isn't that they were 5*'s in HS, it's talent (regardless of stars) and snaps. Difference makers get snaps. That's why there are 0* / 2* / 3* guys drafted in the first two rounds in every NFL draft = becuz they weren't "good enough" to get offered by an elite football factory and luckily for them, ended up some place where they got 2-3-4 years of snaps.

Phil needs snaps and I need a National Championship.

I'm not calling on Kelly to make a change right now. I'd like to think I'd have the sack to do it if I was ND's HC but there are politics, pressures and realities that are way above my pay grade. So I'll secretly hope for a tweeked ankle or maybe a dislocated finger on QB1's right hand.

. . . and just to be clear, Phil goes in the draft after the '21 season and Tyler Buchner starts as a RS Fr. cuz he needs snaps too. He'll be playing with elite talent that's experienced too.

I'm with you on this "hot take" 100%. This is the crux of it. We have to look towards 2021-2023 as the window to win a championship. Phil realizing his talent and becoming the starter next year sets us on the right path.

 

[koonja]

I'll try and not make this sound like a fanboi hot take:

I know ND & Book can win 11 games a year, basically every year now, that's great. Well I'm kinda over that.

ND has some special offensive players coming in, the kind you need to win an NC They also have some elite lineman in the pipeline. I'm all for a 11-2 or a even a 10-3 season in '20 to make a run in '21 when the schedule is set up to make that run.

Football is usually a win now sport. That's one of the things that makes baseball interresting to me. Teams can tell their fans they are blowing it up and on a multi year plan, build a contender through a youth movement. Just watched the Cubs & Astros do just that.

Book's never winning an NC as a starter at ND. Love the guy but he doesn't have the raw physical skills to beat you 3 ways. I don't know if Phil is the next Randall Cunningham but that's the kind of player he was for 3 years vs way above average competition in HS. If you want to win an NC, you have to hope Phil gets starter snaps asap. Because what makes guys great in college isn't that they were 5*'s in HS, it's talent (regardless of stars) and snaps. Difference makers get snaps. That's why there are 0* / 2* / 3* guys drafted in the first two rounds in every NFL draft = becuz they weren't "good enough" to get offered by an elite football factory and luckily for them, ended up some place where they got 2-3-4 years of snaps.

Phil needs snaps and I need a National Championship.

I'm not calling on Kelly to make a change right now. I'd like to think I'd have the sack to do it if I was ND's HC but there are politics, pressures and realities that are way above my pay grade. So I'll secretly hope for a tweeked ankle or maybe a dislocated finger on QB1's right hand.

. . . and just to be clear, Phil goes in the draft after the '21 season and Tyler Buchner starts as a RS Fr. cuz he needs snaps too. He'll be playing with elite talent that's experienced too.

You post well.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Personally, I think Book’s issue is that he was believing his own hype, and is trying to “hero” it too much.

Stats-wise, he’s a Golson /Kizer hybrid:

https://www.onefootdown.com/2019/10...book-missed-tackles-yards-after-catch-passing

I don't think that's it.

If Book's issue was that he bought his own hype, his issue should be overconfidence and making reckless throws. Instead, he's been extremely skittish and bailing out of the pocket rather than just trusting his route and receiver and letting it rip.

If he had a big head, confidence wouldn't be the problem, but it clearly is. He lacks confidence in his ability to make the play.

I don't really see the Golson/Kizer hybrid. Both of them were more athletic and had much stronger arms than Book. They also didn't have much issue making the play when it mattered. Kizer and Golson had similar problems in which they weren't good leaders and made some crucial mental errors that they hung on, especially Golson. Book's issue is more tentativeness rather than recklessness.

 

[JD Irish]

All of our offensive linemen return in 2020. Only 2 of them return for 2021. That is a recipe for winning in 2020, not 2021.

 

[Crazy Balki]

At this point it would be disappointing if Phil doesn't win the job next year. Not because I dislike Book or think he should be replaced by just anyone but because Phil isn't who we thought he was. He has every intrinsic physical advantage over Book except maybe quickness. I think I've seen enough of Book to know this is what he is, not great but not bad either. Good enough to win you a lot of games but not good enough to win a championship. I think most of us still think Phil could crank ND into that next gear on offense once he figures it out, though maybe he never will.

Agreed. Unless Book starts getting his ass in gear, there really is no reason Phil shouldn't usurp him as the starter.

I'm afraid it's going to take a loss for Book to lose the job mid-season. At this point, Book just isn't presenting any compelling evidence that he deserves to start over the universally more talented Jurkovec.

I could understand it if Book showed stellar command of the offense, was cool under pressure and made some clutch throws. He has not. He's been tentative, panics under duress and plays it way too safe way too often.

If that's what we're getting, then I don't see what we have to lose in starting Jurkovec.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I think we have just put a lot on Ian's plate and other position groups not playing up to our expectations have made his job that much harder.

I don't think he has played bad, but he hasn't been able to keep that 72% completion rate going. I don't think he has regressed. We just are not making it easy on him.

I disagree.

The OL has played well, and I'm willing to bet that at least half of the sacks given up this season have been because of Book.

The receivers haven't been great, but Book has missed more than his fair share of open receivers.

Sure, Ian has a lot on his plate, but that's not a viable excuse for a returning starter who helped ND to the playoff. That is the expectation and he is not playing up to it. It's up to him to fix that or make way for someone who can.