'15 LA OT/DT Jerry Tillery (Notre Dame Early Enrollee)

Luckylucci

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One of ND’s problems on the recruiting trail is we haven’t been able to show football first players a consistent path to the NFL. There are a lot of players that want a good education but view themselves as NFL caliber players. They want to see that path from players before them. This is healthy and would be better accepted if we had recruited better behind him.
 

NDinBoston

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This is the kind of situation where if he goes pro I worry it speaks to some deeper culture problem in our program.

Tillery is good and should be draftable. But he can get better and get drafted a lot higher. He's played for three seasons but really only has one year of quality production under his belt. No injury history. Would be a likely captain and veteran leader of our team next year.

More than that, though, he's one of those guys who clearly enjoys the school part of being a student-athlete. Smart kid, seems well-rounded, enjoys life outside football (indeed until this year the knock on him was he wasn't focused enough on football). Everything you want a Notre Dame student-athlete to be, now that he's got his head straight on gameday.

But now he's going to be a three-and-out? Leave without graduating? Just to be a fifth-round pick and take his shot on Sundays? Why? I do not know what's so much more appealing about playing pro ball. Yeah the money, but that'll be there next year, and likely more. Unless being a Notre Dame football player is that unpleasant. And if our best players are jumping ship at the first opportunity, how do you build a program for the long haul? You're constantly reloading and get a guy for one good year instead of two or three, and too few senior leaders. It's no good for anyone.

Something I've been worried about for several years - since 2013 when Niklas and Tuitt left overnight, really - but it seems to have gotten worse the last few years. And for a program like ours it's really troubling. BK needs to do some recruiting on his own team.

Great points. So, if I am pretty sure I am coming back, but am a pretty good player with NFL aspirations, I am going to put out the feelers to generate the buzz a year early so I am on everyone's radar and maximize my draft position next year. Maybe this is what he is thinking?

This is not a problem unique to ND. In fact, we have less players that leave early than most other top 20 programs. That either points to a very good culture at ND, or not enough talent (perhaps both).

Personally, I WANT more studs that have the opportunity to leave early. Not that I want them to leave, but if we have players playing so well that the NFL is noticing, that means we are probably playing well.

Oh, and I talked to someone yesterday that is acquaintances with Jerry and recently spoke to him. If Tillery gets some good feedback from NFL people, he’s as good as gone. The wear and tear on their bodies is a realization for these players much more than fans realize, and if you can get paid for playing, sometimes it is just too hard to pass up, even if you love school.

...Or, if I want to jump as early as possible, I want to know if it is a reasonable choice this year. I think these guys have so much to consider. I'd have to crunch the numbers to see if 1st round next year really trumps 3rd round this year but if I'm that good what will my 2nd contract earn? Even if less with risk of injury maybe leaving early makes sense.

No one knows exactly what JT is thinking. Either way though, it makes sense for him to leave it open and get some info/answers.

As for ND, I agree with both of your points. What makes ND great is its academic image. Also, if there is a clear path to the NFL for OL guys, DL guys, TE guys, it will help recruiting. In the best programs, great recruits contribute early as Juniors leave - if the program is healthy in that way.

Personally/selfishly, I hope he comes back.
 

Irishize

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I can’t imagine his NFL feedback will be anything other than a “Return to School” grade
 

Bluto

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One of ND’s problems on the recruiting trail is we haven’t been able to show football first players a consistent path to the NFL. There are a lot of players that want a good education but view themselves as NFL caliber players. They want to see that path from players before them. This is healthy and would be better accepted if we had recruited better behind him.

One other issue that might be driving his thought process is that due to a lack of depth on the d-line the last couple years he was forced into playing early and had to play a relatively large number of snaps. I'm sure he's feeling the results physically and understands that clock is ticking.
 

stlnd01

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One of ND’s problems on the recruiting trail is we haven’t been able to show football first players a consistent path to the NFL. There are a lot of players that want a good education but view themselves as NFL caliber players. They want to see that path from players before them. This is healthy and would be better accepted if we had recruited better behind him.

We send plenty of guys to the NFL. I don't think that's really the problem with landing "football first" recruits. It's the fact that we want them to also do the school thing.
 

NDinL.A.

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I can’t imagine his NFL feedback will be anything other than a “Return to School” grade

When I referenced “NFL feedback”, I meant off-the-record feedback from scouts, GM’s, coaches, etc that all of these guys get. Tillery’s exact words (spoken to my friend) were: If I’m projected to go in the third round, I almost have to go pro, right?”

He’s a really good kid, who from what I’ve heard has really enjoyed his college experience, but also has an itch to go pro. Hopefully I’m wrong and he stays.
 

stlnd01

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This is not a problem unique to ND. In fact, we have less players that leave early than most other top 20 programs. That either points to a very good culture at ND, or not enough talent (perhaps both).

Personally, I WANT more studs that have the opportunity to leave early. Not that I want them to leave, but if we have players playing so well that the NFL is noticing, that means we are probably playing well.

Oh, and I talked to someone yesterday that is acquaintances with Jerry and recently spoke to him. If Tillery gets some good feedback from NFL people, he’s as good as gone. The wear and tear on their bodies is a realization for these players much more than fans realize, and if you can get paid for playing, sometimes it is just too hard to pass up, even if you love school.

No, I get that. Careers are short, and guys should get paid. You only have so many snaps at any level, and like Bluto said, Tillery has taken a lot of them over the last three years. I don't begrudge the players making the decision, even if I lean towards thinking - for many of them - playing a senior year of college ball is better than being a mid/late round draft pick. (There are rare exceptions. Josh Adams, with his position and injury history, should go sooner than later, IMO.)

But I completely disagree that it's better for Notre Dame's program to have guys routinely jump to the pros after three years. Issues of culture aside, we just don't have the depth for it.

For one thing, we're always short of 85 scholarships, as many here love to point out. We don't have the numbers we need to start with. Then there's the honorable fact that we honor four-year scholarships and don't really process kids out of the program. So we're carrying more dead weight in our older classes than many other teams. We also don't take JUCOs, and transfers of any sort are rare, so not much replenishing with older, experienced, players. We've pushed a lot of freshmen to play early in recent years. But then, Notre Dame being the place that it is, sometimes it takes guys a year or to to acclimate, or they lose time to academics. We're not even necessarily getting three years out of our three-and-outs, then we lose them in their prime. And there's a strength and physical maturity that comes with spending four or five years in a college program, instead of three.

Look at Stanford. One reason they're so good despite not recruiting elite talent is their guys are experienced, and strong, and buy in to the culture of that program. And their depth chart is full of 4th and 5th year players. Because they lose very few players early to the draft.

To me, all that outweighs the recruiting benefit of pointing to a D Lineman who's taken in the fifth round and hangs around the NFL for a few seasons.
 
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Luckylucci

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We send plenty of guys to the NFL. I don't think that's really the problem with landing "football first" recruits. It's the fact that we want them to also do the school thing.

I don’t know what to tell ya other than it’s certainly important that ND shows they can produce NFL talent in 3 years. It’s currently coming up in recruiting pitches with players like Amon-Ra.
 

Crazy Balki

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I think a 3rd round grade is pretty generous IMO.

Tillery has considerable talent and has had a good year, but not worthy of an early exit. To me, unless you're a RB, the only time you leave early (barring unusual circumstances) is if you're grading out to be a 1st or 2nd rounder, MAYBE 3rd, but even that I'm skeptical on. 3rd becomes 5th or 6th pretty quickly.

To me, an extra year isn't the difference between a 1st-2nd and a 3rd rounder, it's the difference between a 1st-2nd and a 4-5th rounder. He has too much to gain from playing out his last season. The money will be there, and most likely A LOT more of it.

He also really needs to develop himself physically and technically. Training Camp isn't the place to do that. He'll already be behind most of his peers from a technical and physical perspective. Not saying he's bad, but he definitely has a ways to go still.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Some of these guys who may not come back, like Jerry, will completely change my outlook on next year's team and possible record outcome. I wish nothing but the best for these guys. I hope they achieve all they set out to achieve, but it doesn't change the fact that when guys leave early, especially at ND, it's hard to overcome the loss of talent/depth/experience/leadership.
 

stlnd01

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Some of these guys who may not come back, like Jerry, will completely change my outlook on next year's team and possible record outcome. I wish nothing but the best for these guys. I hope they achieve all they set out to achieve, but it doesn't change the fact that when guys leave early, especially at ND, it's hard to overcome the loss of talent/depth/experience/leadership.

Exactly. With Tillery and Tranquil, we'd return a pretty darned strong and experienced front seven. Without them, we've got holes to fill. (and if Coney or Jay Hayes were to leave...)
 

BleedBlueGold

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Exactly. With Tillery and Tranquil, we'd return a pretty darned strong and experienced front seven. Without them, we've got holes to fill. (and if Coney or Jay Hayes were to leave...)

I heard this mentioned on II about them getting graded and my stomach dropped. If all of these guys were to leave, wow, look out. Next year could be really ugly.
 

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I heard this mentioned on II about them getting graded and my stomach dropped. If all of these guys were to leave, wow, look out. Next year could be really ugly.

Just a reminder - there's a recent article of the ND kids who get graded by the NFL. It's not because it's a for sure thing, it's partly because they get a chance to see what they have to work on.

Some - McG/Nelson/Morgan all got graded out last year. McG 1st round. I think Nelson 2nd round and Morgan was go back to school. They all came back.

So - if they ask for evaluations, no need to freak out until they have announced. If anything, guys of that talent you just have to expect they will seek evals.
 

Irishize

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Just a reminder - there's a recent article of the ND kids who get graded by the NFL. It's not because it's a for sure thing, it's partly because they get a chance to see what they have to work on.

Some - McG/Nelson/Morgan all got graded out last year. McG 1st round. I think Nelson 2nd round and Morgan was go back to school. They all came back.

So - if they ask for evaluations, no need to freak out until they have announced. If anything, guys of that talent you just have to expect they will seek evals.

As i understand the grading system, it’s one of three grades: 1st Rd, 2nd Rd, Return to School.

Tranquill, Coney & Tillery would all get a Return to School grade IMO. Drue likely leaves anyway b/c he graduates with an Engineering Degree in Dec, he is set to be married soon & he’s already sufferd two major knee injuries. There’s nothing he can realistically do to improve his NFL status. If he can catch on as a UDFA and stick around for 3-5 years, he will have earned a nice nestegg for his family before setting off in the Real World.
 

stlnd01

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As i understand the grading system, it’s one of three grades: 1st Rd, 2nd Rd, Return to School.

Tranquill, Coney & Tillery would all get a Return to School grade IMO.

That’s the formal process, and you’re probably right. But informally these guys (or their parents or whoever) can talk to scouts, NFL players, people associated with teams and agents and whatnot and maybe those people say “yeah you’d be a third round pick.” They hear third round, and they go.

But you don’t know if that’s real or just people blowing smoke up your ass until it’s too late to change your mind. How many kids left college early last year? And how many got drafted in the first three rounds? For Tillery and Coney, at least, it seems like there’s more upside in staying.
 

BobbyMac

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And don't think because they get a go back to school grade doesn't mean they will not get drafted or not make a squad as an UDFA. Here are a few names I recognized off the undrafted list:

Travis Rudolph FSU, made the Giants and got a 1 yr / $465k contract. - 6 rec / 66 yds

Damien Mama SC, made Chiefs Practice Squad, got a 1 yr / $122k contract

Ricky Seals-Jones TA&M, Made Cards 53 man, 1 yr/$465k contract - 9 rec / 170 yds / 3 TD

Jerod Evans VT, Packers Practice Squad, 1 yr/$122k - Packers only carry 2 QB on 53 man.
 

ND NYC

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my thought is as long as they get that ND degree, if they want, go ahead and make the jump, but don't leave here without that paper!
 

BleedBlueGold

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Just a reminder - there's a recent article of the ND kids who get graded by the NFL. It's not because it's a for sure thing, it's partly because they get a chance to see what they have to work on.

Some - McG/Nelson/Morgan all got graded out last year. McG 1st round. I think Nelson 2nd round and Morgan was go back to school. They all came back.

So - if they ask for evaluations, no need to freak out until they have announced. If anything, guys of that talent you just have to expect they will seek evals.

Thanks for clarifying, but yea, I'm aware of the typical grading procedure. I was merely speaking in a hypothetical "what if these guys leave...?"
 

stlnd01

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And don't think because they get a go back to school grade doesn't mean they will not get drafted or not make a squad as an UDFA. Here are a few names I recognized off the undrafted list:

Travis Rudolph FSU, made the Giants and got a 1 yr / $465k contract. - 6 rec / 66 yds

Damien Mama SC, made Chiefs Practice Squad, got a 1 yr / $122k contract

Ricky Seals-Jones TA&M, Made Cards 53 man, 1 yr/$465k contract - 9 rec / 170 yds / 3 TD

Jerod Evans VT, Packers Practice Squad, 1 yr/$122k - Packers only carry 2 QB on 53 man.

Sure. But are Damien Mama or Jerod Evans better off spending this year sitting on an NFL practice squad or starting on a good college team?
 

BobbyMac

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Sure. But are Damien Mama or Jerod Evans better off spending this year sitting on an NFL practice squad or starting on a good college team?

I don't know. My point was to show that even though you don't get drafted, even if you don't make a 53 man, you have a pretty good chance at making more than your starting salary if you did have a degree which you can use to pay for your remaining classes... if ND doesn't do something to help out.
 

stlnd01

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I don't know. My point was to show that even though you don't get drafted, even if you don't make a 53 man, you have a pretty good chance at making more than your starting salary if you did have a degree which you can use to pay for your remaining classes... if ND doesn't do something to help out.

Absolutely. Even $7,200 a week scout team pay is way more than most 23-year-olds make.
I’d be curious of two things though:

What percentage of guys who sign as UDFAs and spend their first year on a scout team ever “make it” in the NFL? (let’s define “make it” as even $1M career earnings) Once a scout-teamer, always a scout-teamer. But the earlier you’re drafted, the more your team is invested in you.

What percentage of guys who leave as juniors actually finish their degree within five years? Even at Notre Dame that’s fairly unusual. I only know of a couple players who’ve come back and done that in the last decade.

I just think a lot of these guys get sold a bill of goods and go pro too early, especially if they don’t have their degree. For contrast: How many ND players have hurt their draft stock by coming back another year? Maybe Cole Luke?
 

irish4ever

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He improved tremendously this year and was better than "OK". However, he still has room for improvement. He would be wise to stay and help his draft stock. Here's hoping he gets an evaluation from the pros that has him stay.

Agreed. HOPEFULLY, McGlinchy's decision to stay this year, should elevate him to a higher draft pick than jumping last year will weigh heavy on Jerry's mind. Big difference for him going as a 4th-5th rounder this year to possibly a 2nd-3rd rounder next year.
 

ulukinatme

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Dunno if anyone mentioned it, but thought he played a good game. I saw him bull rush a guard, pushing him into the tackle which helped free up an End for our 2nd sack of Ettling.
 

arrowryan

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He played okay. He had some good plays, but also got blown off the LOS on a few plays as well.
 

irishff1014

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Dunno if anyone mentioned it, but thought he played a good game. I saw him bull rush a guard, pushing him into the tackle which helped free up an End for our 2nd sack of Ettling.

I think he has been under the radar good all year. Yes his names doesn’t always get called but his ability to make double teams stay on him to free up line backers has been truly welcomed.
 
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