'14 TN DT Michael Sawyers (Offer)

[Irish YJ]

 

[Luckylucci]

Told Loy that he thinks Elston is a great coach but an even better person. Family really liked him. Kelly and BVG should be in to see him next week and he's really excited for that. He is looking for a great football program and great academics and ND has that. No specific date for an official has been scheduled but he will be taking one to ND. I'll add that it seems for a first time introduction Elston hit a homerun here. Was very impressed with what Elston had to say about how they do things at ND.

 

[Irish#1]

Told Loy that he thinks Elston is a great coach but an even better person. Family really liked him. Kelly and BVG should be in to see him next week and he's really excited for that. He is looking for a great football program and great academics and ND has that. No specific date for an official has been scheduled but he will be taking one to ND. I'll add that it seems for a first time introduction Elston hit a homerun here. Was very impressed with what Elston had to say about how they do things at ND.

 

[ab2cmiller]

A couple of Tennessee boards have alluded that Sawyers has some attitude issues and this is after Sawyers decommitted from Vandy and Tennessee was showing some interest. Here's one post from VolNation on 1/12/14

Here you go.... from Vol74 a few pages back....

I've been around both kids over the years enough to have an opinion formed, and if you could give 2 sh!ts about that, their season seasons stats should speak for themselves.

Ensworth - Sawyers - 29 Tackles - 6 TFL - 2 Sacks

MBA - Robertson - 74 Tackles - 14 TFL - 4 Sacks

They play in the same division - Division II Class AA - against the same schools.

More from Vol74.....

Bad, bad attitude. Look for the staff to make a push for Jashon Robertson more than Sawyers.

A few days later Jashon Robertson (who was mentioned above and a former Vandy commit) , declared for Tennessee. But is supposedly coming as a "blue shirt". Lots of chatter that ND is making a run at Robertson as well and saw someone claim that ND offered on 1/15, the same day as his commit to UT.

 

[Buster Bluth]

"Bad, bad attitude" in SEC country could mean "I want to go to school" and/or "the Confederates were wrong."

 

[Luckylucci]

"Bad, bad attitude" in SEC country could mean "I want to go to school" and/or "the Confederates were wrong."

Yea, until I see something more I will chalk this up to stupidity by a fan base. If he is wanting to go to a school and challenge himself academically I doubt he has a poor attitude.

 

[ndfi78]

A couple of Tennessee boards have alluded that Sawyers has some attitude issues and this is after Sawyers decommitted from Vandy and Tennessee was showing some interest. Here's one post from VolNation on 1/12/14



A few days later Jashon Robertson (who was mentioned above and a former Vandy commit) , declared for Tennessee. But is supposedly coming as a "blue shirt". Lots of chatter that ND is making a run at Robertson as well and saw someone claim that ND offered on 1/15, the same day as his commit to UT.

What is a blue shirt? I've heard red and grey but not blue.

 

[IrishLax]

What is a blue shirt? I've heard red and grey but not blue.

It's basically new black magic invented by Tennessee to try to avoid all scholarship rules and sign 40 kids. It's about using the new grant-in-aid rule for EEs (and other tactics) to get around the SEC anti-oversigning rules. This article hits on it well.

Has Butch Jones found a recruiting loophole? Vols could use complex strategies to manage brimming class | Evan's Eleven

So if you do all of your "oversigning" up front (or after the listed signing period), then you're in the clear-ish.

 

[IrishLax]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Coach Hinton just came by. <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Buckeyes&src=hash">#Buckeyes</a></p>— Mike Sawyers Jr (@MikeSawyers_75) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeSawyers_75/statuses/424242670999855104">January 17, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[tko]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Coach Hinton just came by. <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Buckeyes&src=hash">#Buckeyes</a></p>— Mike Sawyers Jr (@MikeSawyers_75) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeSawyers_75/statuses/424242670999855104">January 17, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

hahahahahaha, of course he did.

 

[woolybug25]

It's basically new black magic invented by Tennessee to try to avoid all scholarship rules and sign 40 kids. It's about using the new grant-in-aid rule for EEs (and other tactics) to get around the SEC anti-oversigning rules. This article hits on it well.

Has Butch Jones found a recruiting loophole? Vols could use complex strategies to manage brimming class | Evan's Eleven

So if you do all of your "oversigning" up front (or after the listed signing period), then you're in the clear-ish.

Why aren't we doing this?

The more intriguing and non-traditional option is blue-shirting. Here’s how I described it an earlier article: “Officially, a player arrives in the summer as a walk-on. Once football practice begins, he’s awarded a scholarship. The school is allowed to count the scholarship forward — against the 2015 class — but the player can play immediately. There’s a big catch: The student-athlete may not have been recruited, as defined by NCAA bylaws. That means no official visit to campus, no in-home visits from coaches, no signed National Letter of Intent or athletic aid.”

Each year there are a handful of kids we could do this with. Especially if we don't know if they would qualify. I don't see this as "shady" whatsoever. It's tactical and smart.

 

[irishog77]

Why aren't we doing this?



Each year there are a handful of kids we could do this with. Especially if we don't know if they would qualify. I don't see this as "shady" whatsoever. It's tactical and smart.

I don't think ND engages in it because, by the letter of the law, the kid can not have been recruited.

I think it would be hard to get a kid to qualify for ND, show up in the summer ready to pay ND tuition, then cross his fingers a spot opens up for him.

The reality of the situation, at most schools I'm sure, is that the kid is being recruited the whole time (by 3rd parties, back avenues, etc.), and essentially asked to participate in illegal/unethical ncaa rules.

 

[IrishLax]

Why aren't we doing this?

Each year there are a handful of kids we could do this with. Especially if we don't know if they would qualify. I don't see this as "shady" whatsoever. It's tactical and smart.

It's the 85 limit that we don't want to cross, not the 25 limit per year, so it'd be pretty irrelevant. So Tennessee is doing it so that they can bring in 100 kids and then cut the people they don't want... and accordingly, they have to get a bunch of kids over the 25 limit signed any way they can.

The bigger question is why we don't recruit more kids with alternative scholarships. USC taking Randall Cunningham Jr. for track and will let him walk-on, easily could've given Sam Hubbard a full ride immediately for lacrosse while we still evaluated him and signed him to football in the cycle as necessary, etc. This is something lots of schools do, and we don't really.

 

[IrishLax]

I don't think ND engages in it because, by the letter of the law, the kid can not have been recruited.

I think it would be hard to get a kid to qualify for ND, show up in the summer ready to pay ND tuition, then cross his fingers a spot opens up for him.

The reality of the situation, at most schools I'm sure, is that the kid is being recruited the whole time (by 3rd parties, back avenues, etc.), and essentially asked to participate in illegal/unethical ncaa rules.

This is where the Vols really might get themselves in hot water. I'm not sure if the rules have changed, but back in the day "being recruited" was a very low bar. I wonder how many of these kids they might try to "blue shirt" might actually be ineligible for it. Also, we all know that grey shirts get routinely pushed out, so maybe they'll just cut the "blue shirt" if the qualification gets dicey.

 

[irishog77]

It's the 85 limit that we don't want to cross, not the 25 limit per year, so it'd be pretty irrelevant. So Tennessee is doing it so that they can bring in 100 kids and then cut the people they don't want... and accordingly, they have to get a bunch of kids over the 25 limit signed any way they can.

The bigger question is why we don't recruit more kids with alternative scholarships. USC taking Randall Cunningham Jr. for track and will let him walk-on, easily could've given Sam Hubbard a full ride immediately for lacrosse while we still evaluated him and signed him to football in the cycle as necessary, etc. This is something lots of schools do, and we don't really.

When Hubbard was committed to ND for lacrosse, wouldn't he have been under a lacrosse scholarship?

 

[woolybug25]

It's the 85 limit that we don't want to cross, not the 25 limit per year, so it'd be pretty irrelevant. So Tennessee is doing it so that they can bring in 100 kids and then cut the people they don't want... and accordingly, they have to get a bunch of kids over the 25 limit signed any way they can.

The bigger question is why we don't recruit more kids with alternative scholarships. USC taking Randall Cunningham Jr. for track and will let him walk-on, easily could've given Sam Hubbard a full ride immediately for lacrosse while we still evaluated him and signed him to football in the cycle as necessary, etc. This is something lots of schools do, and we don't really.

Totally agree with that. Missing on Hubbard is one of the most aggregavating recruiting losses I have ever witnessed. How one misses on a high 4 star, top 150 overall, top 10 player at his position stud that is already committed to your school is beyond me. Unbelievable miss on our part.

On the blue shirting though, we are looking at their scholarship going forward, not back like EE. So it does offer us a unique opportunity. That scholarship would would count a year forward, which wouldn't put it in the 85. For instance... If we "blue shirted" a recruit in this class, per the article, he would be a signee for the '15 class. He could play immediately, but we don't recognize his scholarship to the 85 limit until 2015.

What it also offers us is flexibility. If we get to fall and a kid transfers, we can just utilize his scholarship in the current year. The kid still has to show up, get admitted, etc. So it's not like we are doing anything shady.

 

[Emcee77]

Totally agree with that. Missing on Hubbard is one of the most aggregavating recruiting losses I have ever witnessed. How one misses on a high 4 star, top 150 overall, top 10 player at his position stud that is already committed to your school is beyond me. Unbelievable miss on our part.

On the blue shirting though, we are looking at their scholarship going forward, not back like EE. So it does offer us a unique opportunity. That scholarship would would count a year forward, which wouldn't put it in the 85. For instance... If we "blue shirted" a recruit in this class, per the article, he would be a signee for the '15 class. He could play immediately, but we don't recognize his scholarship to the 85 limit until 2015.

What it also offers us is flexibility. If we get to fall and a kid transfers, we can just utilize his scholarship in the current year. The kid still has to show up, get admitted, etc. So it's not like we are doing anything shady.

I don't think so. The 85 kids are counted each August. No flexibility there. Lax is right ... blueshirting gets you around the 25 limit, not the 85.

 

[IrishLax]

When Hubbard was committed to ND for lacrosse, wouldn't he have been under a lacrosse scholarship?

Basically, and this is oversimplifying things a bit, but for non-revenue sports you don't have nearly enough scholarships for everyone to have one. So typically all freshmen, even the very elite #1 style guys except for rare cases, come in on partial scholarship... and over time, you earn more scholarship by seniority/contributions on the field.

But it's very easy when you already have an open line of communication from a coach to a player to have Corrigan pick up the phone and say "the football coaches are very interested, so we're going to put you on full scholarship for lacrosse and they're going to be evaluating you and..." then down the road you can switch him over to a football scholarship whenever it makes the most sense. This is routinely done with track and field scholarships at most schools.

 

[IrishLax]

Totally agree with that. Missing on Hubbard is one of the most aggregavating recruiting losses I have ever witnessed. How one misses on a high 4 star, top 150 overall, top 10 player at his position stud that is already committed to your school is beyond me. Unbelievable miss on our part.

On the blue shirting though, we are looking at their scholarship going forward, not back like EE. So it does offer us a unique opportunity. That scholarship would would count a year forward, which wouldn't put it in the 85. For instance... If we "blue shirted" a recruit in this class, per the article, he would be a signee for the '15 class. He could play immediately, but we don't recognize his scholarship to the 85 limit until 2015.

What it also offers us is flexibility. If we get to fall and a kid transfers, we can just utilize his scholarship in the current year. The kid still has to show up, get admitted, etc. So it's not like we are doing anything shady.

That's incorrect. It's just by them signing their aid after they arrive on campus in the summer/fall that they can count it as an initial counter a year forward. If they're on campus and on athletic scholarship then they count towards your 85 limit that season. Grey shirts, where they are NOT on scholarship in the fall, are the one that would not count towards the 85.

 

[woolybug25]

That's incorrect. It's just by them signing their aid after they arrive on campus in the summer/fall that they can count it as an initial counter a year forward. If they're on campus and on athletic scholarship then they count towards your 85 limit that season. Grey shirts, where they are NOT on scholarship in the fall, are the one that would not count towards the 85.

Okay. I misread that. But as a team that rarely, if ever, hits the 85 limit. Why would we need to concern ourselves with that? There are options with 5th years that could be our backup plan if we overextended (remember, we never hit 85). I'm not saying that we not honor signees or cut players. This isn't that, imo.

 

[woolybug25]

I don't think so. The 85 kids are counted each August. No flexibility there. Lax is right ... blueshirting gets you around the 25 limit, not the 85.

Wait... I want to find out more about when they count the schollies. If in August, and only August, then a "blueshirted" player wouldn't be on scholarship yet.

 

[ACamp1900]

Wait... I want to find out more about when they count the schollies. If in August, and only August, then a "blueshirted" player wouldn't be on scholarship yet.

...

Did you just realize that? That has been a pretty major aspect of oversgining for a while now...

 

[woolybug25]

...

Did you just realize that? That has been a pretty major aspect of oversgining for a while now...

You are aware of "blueshirting"? lol

So if it's just recorded in August and a blueshirted player isn't on scholarship at that point, does that not count to the 85 that year?

 

[Monk]

That's incorrect. It's just by them signing their aid after they arrive on campus in the summer/fall that they can count it as an initial counter a year forward. If they're on campus and on athletic scholarship then they count towards your 85 limit that season. Grey shirts, where they are NOT on scholarship in the fall, are the one that would not count towards the 85.

What if they are shirtless?

 

[koonja]

What if they are shirtless?

Then pics will be posted.

 

[Irishnuke]

What if they are shirtless?

Then Kuehnja will come creeping.

 

[koonja]

Then Kuehnja will come creeping.

You're over 2 hours late. I already made the joke on myself.

Take 2 laps.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Took official visit to Georgia Tech this past weekend. Visited with 9 other committed players. Had a good time but did not commit.
Recap of Georgia Tech’s biggest recruiting weekend of year | College recruiting blog

Ole Miss scheduled for next weekend. Evidently his high school position coach went to Ole Miss.

Tennessee was originally scheduled for the 31st but could be a slot for ND if he decides to pass on Tennessee or squeeze them in during the week sometime since they are closer.

I guess the Tennessee Rivals guy thinks that after some early mutual interest things have cooled down between Sawyers and UT.

 

[stlnd01]

I realize this kid is from SEC-land, but if it's us vs. Ga. Tech, Ole Miss and Tennessee, and we want him and he wants a real education - which the prior Vandy commit would suggest - I don't get how he doesn't come our way.
We check all the boxes (opportunity for PT, big-time program, good education, chance to win a lot and play in big games) in ways none of those other three do.

 

[Irish#1]

I realize this kid is from SEC-land, but if it's us vs. Ga. Tech, Ole Miss and Tennessee, and we want him and he wants a real education - which the prior Vandy commit would suggest - I don't get how he doesn't come our way.
We check all the boxes (opportunity for PT, big-time program, good education, chance to win a lot and play in big games) in ways none of those other three do.

True, but trying to figure out what a teenager is thinking or how they think is nearly impossible. lol