'14 MO DE Jonathan Bonner (Notre Dame Signee)

[koonja]

I think it's kind of funny how a lot of people start bashing people that care about star ratings or start defending the commitment and saying they don't care about star ratings when, in fact, no one said they were disappointed a player was a 3-star.

People are like, "shame on all of you that care about star ratings", yet, no one said they cared about star ratings, at least not that I've seen on this board. It seems this happens every time a 3-star commits.



Agree 100%. Kelly and staff have proven their talent evaluation skills are second to none in college football.


Re: Bonner, he's the best SDE in a state that has 23,000+ kids playing HS football. The kid can play.

That's very true. I started a lot of this (not sure how) by saying I suck at evaluating recruits, but wasn't impressed with his film, yet still trust the staff since they saw him in person, and from there it's like a game of telephone. All of a sudden stars are brought up and like you said, not sure anyone said anything like 'oh, we're getting too many 3-stars'.

And it continues into this:

 

[Whiskeyjack]

That's very true. I started a lot of this (not sure how) by saying I suck at evaluating recruits, but wasn't impressed with his film, yet still trust the staff since they saw him in person, and from there it's like a game of telephone. All of a sudden stars are brought up and like you said, not sure anyone said anything like 'oh, we're getting too many 3-stars'.

Sort of like how my ROI comparisons usually **** someone off: "Degree value is irrelevant. Individual effort is all that determines success, etc."

Both are touchy subjects. Just have to be tactful when criticizing a verbal. Once he's part of the family, there's a strong reflex to defend.

 

[Rhode Irish]

That's very true. I started a lot of this (not sure how) by saying I suck at evaluating recruits, but wasn't impressed with his film, yet still trust the staff since they saw him in person, and from there it's like a game of telephone. All of a sudden stars are brought up and like you said, not sure anyone said anything like 'oh, we're getting too many 3-stars'.

To the extent I contributed to the discussion, it had nothing to do with you. You did respond to me and we went back and forth, but the thing I was arguing against was expressing disappointment that a kid committed, not posters having opinions about individual players. Maybe that is too fine of a distinction for some folks, but that is all I was saying. And my comment was in response to someone saying posters on another site were expressing disappointment. I don't know which site and I don't really care. I was just expressing my view on the topic.

 

[koonja]

To the extent I contributed to the discussion, it had nothing to do with you. You did respond to me and we went back and forth, but the thing I was arguing against was expressing disappointment that a kid committed, not posters having opinions about individual players. Maybe that is too fine of a distinction for some folks, but that is all I was saying. And my comment was in response to someone saying posters on another site were expressing disappointment. I don't know which site and I don't really care. I was just expressing my view on the topic.

I understand, and looking back, it makes sense and I believe you. But if you're going to say something about posters that are on another board, you should make that clear. Then we would have avoided this fiasco, lol.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I feel really strongly about this but I don't know in which way.

Go Jonathan!!! You're a Winner!!!

.... at least I got that part right.

 

[Luckylucci]

FWIW, Loy had something interesting to say that pertains to this conversation. He was talking about Blankenship and said that there are certain coaching staffs that he trusts and other he doesn't. He fully trusts this ND staff.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Why question the Kelly staff? I mean it isn't a problem for me, but I guess I just see it as an effort with a diminishing return. It is the process, and the process works. First straw man. Kelly is not Ty Willingham or Charlie Weiss. He is not Jim Tressel; he is not Urban Liar Meyer. We have been through all this.

Because it is a message board, and that's what fans do on message boards. I think the staff is phenomenal and like I said, I defer to them in most cases. Kelly and the staff have made mistakes. Kelly hired Molnar. Kelly has signed a few players that have not panned out yet and are reportedly not expected to pan out. In his opening presser he famously said he was going to be bringing in RKG's, but he has brought in several players that have not been RKG's. He's made IMO a few HORRIBLE decisions on the field, some of which have cost ND some games.

Having said that, I think he's done a phenomenal job and I'm extremely grateful that he's our coach. I have no problem with him taking risks on lowly rated recruits, bc he's earned my trust. I have no problem with him taking a few risky players character-wise because I want to win quite honestly, and those players tend to have a high reward ROI, and ND is a place that can change people.

But still, I enjoy reading other people's opinions on things he and the staff have done, and this being a message board, I can see exactly why people question the staff. Makes for good conversation.

Second point from the first. I am trying to objectively gage the value of Paul Longo's place in the program. I think he is unheralded. I think he put that big tackle from CMU into the NFL and I think that he put more than his share while on U of I's staff. The rest is history.

I've seen you harping on this lately. If you read up on what Kelly has said about him, you'd be able to quite easily gage Longo's value to the program. Longo, from the day Kelly was hired, has been lauded by Kelly. Kelly has called him the most important person on his staff, and treats him like he does his offensive/defensive coordinators. BK has talked repeatedly about how he brings recruits to Longo and Longo evaluates them, and how that is just as important as what the kid does on the field. Lomgo might be unheralded by the national media, but every ND fan worth his salt knows how important Longo is to the ND program. Kelly makes sure we know it.

Oh, and the coaches at CMU would have an argument with you about Longo putting Eric Fisher in the NFL. Longo hasn't worked there since 2006, and Fisher I believe started at CMU in 2009. Unless you know something we don't know, Longo had nothing (or very little) to do with Fisher being in the NFL. Longo is incredible, but you're stretching it with this one.

 

[dublinirish]

Longo, from the day Kelly was hired, has been lauded by Kelly. Kelly has called him the most important person on his staff, and treats him like he does his offensive/defensive coordinators. BK has talked repeatedly about how he brings recruits to Longo and Longo evaluates them, and how that is just as important as what the kid does on the field. Lomgo might be unheralded by the national media, but every ND fan worth his salt knows how important Longo is to the ND program. Kelly makes sure we know it.

In fairiness every head coach in football says this about their S & C guy..

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Because it is a message board, and that's what fans do on message boards. I think the staff is phenomenal and like I said, I defer to them in most cases. Kelly and the staff have made mistakes. Kelly hired Molnar. Kelly has signed a few players that have not panned out yet and are reportedly not expected to pan out. In his opening presser he famously said he was going to be bringing in RKG's, but he has brought in several players that have not been RKG's. He's made IMO a few HORRIBLE decisions on the field, some of which have cost ND some games.

Having said that, I think he's done a phenomenal job and I'm extremely grateful that he's our coach. I have no problem with him taking risks on lowly rated recruits, bc he's earned my trust. I have no problem with him taking a few risky players character-wise because I want to win quite honestly, and those players tend to have a high reward ROI, and ND is a place that can change people.

But still, I enjoy reading other people's opinions on things he and the staff have done, and this being a message board, I can see exactly why people question the staff. Makes for good conversation.



I've seen you harping on this lately. If you read up on what Kelly has said about him, you'd be able to quite easily gage Longo's value to the program. Longo, from the day Kelly was hired, has been lauded by Kelly. Kelly has called him the most important person on his staff, and treats him like he does his offensive/defensive coordinators. BK has talked repeatedly about how he brings recruits to Longo and Longo evaluates them, and how that is just as important as what the kid does on the field. Lomgo might be unheralded by the national media, but every ND fan worth his salt knows how important Longo is to the ND program. Kelly makes sure we know it.

Oh, and the coaches at CMU would have an argument with you about Longo putting Eric Fisher in the NFL. Longo hasn't worked there since 2006, and Fisher I believe started at CMU in 2009. Unless you know something we don't know, Longo had nothing (or very little) to do with Fisher being in the NFL. Longo is incredible, but you're stretching it with this one.

Joe Staley (born August 30, 1984) is an American football offensive tackle for the San Francisco 49ers of the National Football League (NFL). He played college football for Central Michigan University, and was drafted in the first round (28th overall) of the 2007 NFL Draft. He also has his own online show on 49ers.com | The Official Site of the San Francisco 49ers entitled "The Joe Show," in which he interviews teammates and coaches behind the scenes in the locker room.

They all looked away in embarrassment . . . yet another fight was averted.

Maybe you didn't mean a putdown, but it sure sounded that way; the way you wound around behind to make that point about Eric Fisher. That is why I have asked so many times for you to just leave me alone.

 

[Domina Nostra]

It's kind of funny how sensitive a lot of people get when a 3-star commits to ND. I imagine if we ever got a 2-star, this site would go bananas, lol.

Summary:

- Get the best kids available, unless they are bad for team chemistry (Tuitt is ideal; Sheldon Day is more valuable than Aaron Lynch)
- Star-ratings are a quick way to get a sense if your team is getting its share of the best kids (Most NC contenders have high average star ratings, and the NFL ends up picking high-rated kids disproportionately; see Alabama, USC, UF)
- Star-ratings are a quick way to get a sense of a kid's talent level (law of averages)
- Offer sheets are a better way to get a sense of a kid's talent level (these guys are paid a whole lot to make the right call and thier jobs depend on being right)
- Don't be afraid to occassionally take a chance on lower-rated kids, they do explode from time-to-time (lots of evidence of late-bloomers, diamonds in the rough, etc.)

And my personal favorites...

- Don't compare final star-ratings from previous years with pre-Senior year ratings this year.
- Scheme and depth chart matter.

 

[NDinL.A.]

They all looked away in embarrassment . . . yet another fight was averted.

Maybe you didn't mean a putdown, but it sure sounded that way; the way you wound around behind to make that point about Eric Fisher. That is why I have asked so many times for you to just leave me alone.

LOL...it's not a fight dude. Are you STILL on this trip? It's a message board and I responded to one of your posts. You post like 20 times a day and I respond to maybe one of your posts every 5 days. I reply to a lot of people. This is so damn old and tired...get over it. No one cares. All you had to say was the lineman's name, and I would have understood.

And nice response to the rest of my post. Bottom line dude, just put me back on ignore or handle yourself better when I dare to respond to one of your posts. Or stop posting if it affects you so much. Nothing in my post was personal. It's a message board, and I responded to something I read. Let's get back to the topic at hand please.

 

[Grahambo]

People make it seem we are the only big time school that accepts recruits. Look at Alabama, they have no problem taking recruits no matter the position. If they see a guy and they like him, they will go after him. Stars be damned.

 

[connect the dots]

People make it seem we are the only big time school that accepts recruits. Look at Alabama, they have no problem taking recruits no matter the position. If they see a guy and they like him, they will go after him. Stars be damned.

The center from Minnesota, J C Hassenauer, is a perfect example of a recruit low on the recruiting totem pole. Camped at Alabama, they liked what they saw, offered, and he accepted the next day. Shows up at the Opening, he turns some heads, and leaves with the lineman MVP.

 

[STLDomer]

The center from Minnesota, J C Hassenauer, is a perfect example of a recruit low on the recruiting totem pole. Camped at Alabama, they liked what they saw, offered, and he accepted the next day. Shows up at the Opening, he turns some heads, and leaves with the lineman MVP.

That's a kid that was underrated, partly because he is a Center. We don't know if Bonner is underrated yet, maybe he is but there's a chance he isn't.

 

[dublinirish]

The center from Minnesota, J C Hassenauer, is a perfect example of a recruit low on the recruiting totem pole. Camped at Alabama, they liked what they saw, offered, and he accepted the next day. Shows up at the Opening, he turns some heads, and leaves with the lineman MVP.

theres a difference between 3 stars in July and 3 stars come Signing Day

 

[Bogtrotter07]

LOL...it's not a fight dude. Are you STILL on this trip? It's a message board and I responded to one of your posts. You post like 20 times a day and I respond to maybe one of your posts every 5 days. I reply to a lot of people. This is so damn old and tired...get over it. No one cares. All you had to say was the lineman's name, and I would have understood.

And nice response to the rest of my post. Bottom line dude, just put me back on ignore or handle yourself better when I dare to respond to one of your posts. Or stop posting if it affects you so much. Nothing in my post was personal. It's a message board, and I responded to something I read. Let's get back to the topic at hand please.

Nothing to respond to. Nothing at all.

I was never interested in talking about me, or my flaws. I was interested in talking about the uncanny ability of Kelly and Longo to pick guys, and make players out of them. A perfect example is Tate Nichols, if he hadn't had chronically sublexing patella's, he may have been the next great one.

 

[OCIrish]

Something to keep in mind.......that while all of us arm chair QB's ****, moan, and complain about one thing or another...... we're not the HC @ ND, nor are we on the staff. I don't have a problem with anybody questioning Kelly and Co., but let's be honest.......and my college DC, had the best saying about big time coaches that I've ever heard, "****, those guys have forgotten more about coaching football than I'll ever know!!"

I try to refer to the guys in charge when it comes to recruits, not saying they're perfect, Lord knows they are not, however, they do this for a living, I dig up gas mains........

 

[Irish#1]

People make it seem we are the only big time school that accepts recruits. Look at Alabama, they have no problem taking recruits no matter the position. If they see a guy and they like him, they will go after him. Stars be damned.

I'm with you on this one. I think way too much importance is placed on ratings. There are so many kids out there that get missed every year for one reason or another yet can play against most anyone.

 

[Redbar]

His picture is up on the front of the article about standouts at the NFL High School 7 on 7 in Cleveland. Along with people like Fournette, they said this about Jonathon:

will play defensive end/linebacker at Notre Dame, but impressed at tight end in the 7on7 action. Good size and speed combo, and a leader on his team make Bonner an attractive recruit. There was a lot to like about this kid.

 

[Irishman77]

The reason why ND fans have a problem with ratings is:
1. We sucked for well over a decade
2. We have not had a head coach since holtz that could put together a TEAM.
3. We have not had a coach that could develop talent like Kelly

Don't fret Irish brothers. When this staff sees what they want they are very very good at getting them and developing them.

 

[arrowryan]

I had a friend that went to notre dame camp. He is from Chicago and he usually goes there every year to watch them. He told my brother the other day on the phone that: He seen this tall, put together pretty well, lengthy guy out there that nobody could block and ran like a deer. When camp was over the whole Notre Dame coaching staff was flocking around this guy, all over him. It turned out to be Jonathan Bonner.I just have a hunch that Bonner is better than what he is rated. I think its going to turn out to be a really good player. Reminds me of Kerrigan but with an offer.

That's a very interesting comparison IMO. And a rather accurate one going off of their height and weight. If he even comes to be remotely close to Kerrigan, he will obviously be the steal of this class.

A guy on the Scout main board posted this BTW

 

[Crazy Balki]

That's a very interesting comparison IMO. And a rather accurate one going off of their height and weight. If he even comes to be remotely close to Kerrigan, he will obviously be the steal of this class.

A guy on the Scout main board posted this BTW

I guess that's a reasonable comparison. Similarly, I compare Grant Blankenship to Ben Gardner. Grant's a bit bigger and faster, but their body types are similar and they both look like (or are) 3-4 DE's in my opinion. Bonner looks more like an experimental OLB/ILB.

 

[arrowryan]

I guess that's a reasonable comparison. Similarly, I compare Grant Blankenship to Ben Gardner. Grant's a bit bigger and faster, but their body types are similar and they both look like (or are) 3-4 DE's in my opinion. Bonner looks more like an experimental OLB/ILB.

The staff is starting Bonner off at CAT then moving to DE when he gets bigger (Blankenship will do the same). He is at 245 now, and will probably get moved when he hits 270-275.

I don't even think it's a guarantee that he comes into South Bend at CAT. There is a chance he comes in already big enough to play DE IMO

 

[NDdomer2]

i think this staff would take a Kerrigan year after year.

on a side note how many years is this random guy going to go to camp, is he a 21 year old high school student

 

[arrowryan]

i think this staff would take a Kerrigan year after year.

on a side note how many years is this random guy going to go to camp, is he a 21 year old high school student

He might work for a recruiting site or a newspaper. I think he is just there to watch, not to camp there

 

[Ironman8]

He might work for a recruiting site or a newspaper. I think he is just there to watch, not to camp there

They don't let those type of media people attend those camps - otherwise we would have had that type of information on Bonner from them when it occurred, not small, random tidbits here and there from a source of a source.

 

[arrowryan]

They don't let those type of media people attend those camps - otherwise we would have had that type of information on Bonner from them when it occurred, not small, random tidbits here and there from a source of a source.

I have no idea then. Maybe he was a high school kid. He also said that Tillery wasn't 6'6", more like 6'4". But that doesn't really matter.

 

[irishog77]

Maybe the dude is Wooderson.

 

[NDPhilly]

Yo arrowryan can I get a link or was it in the premium forums?

 

[ND NYC]

I guess that's a reasonable comparison. Similarly, I compare Grant Blankenship to Ben Gardner. Grant's a bit bigger and faster, but their body types are similar and they both look like (or are) 3-4 DE's in my opinion. Bonner looks more like an experimental OLB/ILB.

Ben Gardner has disappeared...was last seen fishing off Amity Island