'13 OH QB Malik Zaire (Notre Dame Early Enrollee)

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koonja

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People say Aaron Rogers is the 'best QB' in the NFL (debatable). Yet Tom Brady will win you more games (not debatable).

There not exclusive unless you're a simple Jack. Do you think Tebow was the most skilled QB in college? You probably do.
 
Ndaccountant

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koonja said:
People say Aaron Rogers is the 'best QB' in the NFL (debatable). Yet Tom Brady will win you more games (not debatable).

There not exclusive unless you're a simple Jack. Do you think Tebow was the most skilled QB in college? You probably do.
Click to expand...

But they don't play on the same team. Kizer and Zaire did. Your analogy is flawed.

Tebow versus Leak for the one year would be more appropriate.
 
FightingIrishLover7

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koonja said:
People say Aaron Rogers is the 'best QB' in the NFL (debatable). Yet Tom Brady will win you more games (not debatable).

There not exclusive unless you're a simple Jack. Do you think Tebow was the most skilled QB in college? You probably do.
Click to expand...

Doubling down on this flawed analogy? Lol
 
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koonja

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You guys can laugh all you want and get mad, I strongly believe Malik, while being the less skilled QB, eod not have allowed this team to go 4-8. Well never know, but I'll always believe that. Do your dance and move on.
 
Irish Insanity

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koonja said:
You guys can laugh all you want and get mad, I strongly believe Malik, while being the less skilled QB, eod not have allowed this team to go 4-8. Well never know, but I'll always believe that. Do your dance and move on.
Click to expand...
There are a lot things that could've lead us to a better record, Zaire isn't one of those. Wanting it more or having more 'it'' doesn't change the rest of the team, it's coaches, or it's schedule.
 
Domina Nostra

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koonja said:
People say Aaron Rogers is the 'best QB' in the NFL (debatable). Yet Tom Brady will win you more games (not debatable).

There not exclusive unless you're a simple Jack. Do you think Tebow was the most skilled QB in college? You probably do.
Click to expand...

Pro Tim Tebow might serve your argument better.

He was one of the least skilled QBs in the league, but his running style and leadership got that Broncos team rolling in a way that some mid-grade QB who could throw better may not have.

Last year's team was a dumpster fire, but I agree that a little fiery leadership would have gone a long way. Lack of leadership was a huge problem last year Maybe we would have been 6-6!!!!
 
stlnd01

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koonja said:
Zaire simply wouldn't allow a team to go 4-8, plain and simple. I don't care if Kizer is the more skilled quarterback. There are 1,000 examples in football of the 'more skilled guy' getting less out of his team.

Heart, practice, motivation, pulling teammates along goes a hell of a long way in CFB, especially when you're the leader.

We'll never know since he didn't start last year, but I know that team wouldn't have gone 4-8 with Zaire at QB.
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Did you see how Zaire acted last year after losing out to Kizer? Standing off by himself on the sldelines. Totally useless when he did go in. Didn't look like heart or motivation. He just looked miserable.

I agree the guy caught some shitty breaks, and BK bungled things royally. But Zaire still could have been an asset to last year's team, had he chosen to. QB2 is also an important job. He still was a leader in the locker room. Say what you will about Tommy Rees but - despite winning and losing the starting QB job more times than I can count - he did everything he could to help Golson off the field, and always answered the bell when he needed to.

For that matter, MZ could have stuck around tried to win our QB job this year, instead of high-tailing it the first moment possible. He didn't even wait to see if Kizer went pro, just bolted, and not even to play spring ball. Even if he didn't beat out Wimbush to start I'd feel a lot more comfortable with our depth if Zaire's on the roster. Instead he'll just sit in Florida. I hope he does well there, but the whole thing's a shame.
 
ulukinatme

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stlnd01 said:
Did you see how Zaire acted last year after losing out to Kizer? Standing off by himself on the sldelines. Totally useless when he did go in. Didn't look like heart or motivation. He just looked miserable.

I agree the guy caught some shitty breaks, and BK bungled things royally. But Zaire still could have been an asset to last year's team, had he chosen to. QB2 is also an important job. He still was a leader in the locker room. Say what you will about Tommy Rees but - despite winning and losing the starting QB job more times than I can count - he did everything he could to help Golson off the field, and always answered the bell when he needed to.

For that matter, MZ could have stuck around tried to win our QB job this year, instead of high-tailing it the first moment possible. He didn't even wait to see if Kizer went pro, just bolted, and not even to play spring ball. Even if he didn't beat out Wimbush to start I'd feel a lot more comfortable with our depth if Zaire's on the roster. Instead he'll just sit in Florida. I hope he does well there, but the whole thing's a shame.
Click to expand...

stlnd01 said:
EG's terrible decision has certainly crippled this team. He definitely deserves his criticism. When does it stop though? We should have moved on by now. He isn't the reason we lost to Michigan or Oklahoma.
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So...when does the criticism stop for Zaire? What a hypocrite.

I would have liked Zaire to stay another year too, but he thought going to Florida was his best chance to make an impact in the draft given their QB situation. Maybe things still pan out for him there, maybe not. He was nothing but classy on his way out of the university though. He thanked everyone and had nothing but nice things to say. By NOT playing in Spring ball he allowed both Book and Wimbush to get the maximum number of reps they could get without hampering either's development. That's different than what Golson did...when Golson hung around it ended up hurting both Malik and Kizer, and then he was going to silently bolt into the night until the team informed the coaches. It would have been better had he decided to leave when the writing was on the wall, or at least be up front with the coaches about it when he made his decision. Did I want Zaire to stay, yes, but he did what was best for him and he did it the right way.

It's obvious now that Zaire lost a bit of his step and confidence after the injury, and the same for Folston. I watched most of the offensive plays against LSU bowl just now, and both players ran with a purpose and were agile. Neither player looked the same last year. To make matters worse, our OL did not play all that well last season, and our running game was atrocious (I believe Adams played injured if I recall). We were dominant up front in that Music City bowl game, and it was against a very stout LSU defense. When we went 2 TE sets it was a thing of beauty, I really hope Long brings that back this year.

In short, with the lack of a strong running game last year, it's really hampered Zaire's skill set given his passes are often predicated by the run. He saw very limited action last year, and when he was asked to come in it was usually cold off the bench for a handful of plays (Very hard to do)...and some of those series were destroyed through no fault of his own (One being an OL penalty against Texas that killed a drive). Malik had some very nice passes in that Music City bowl, the commentators made note of the "lasers" and his accuracy. He had/has the potential to be a good QB, it's just a matter of being in the right system and regaining that confidence.
 
stlnd01

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ulukinatme said:
So...when does the criticism stop for Zaire? What a hypocrite.
Click to expand...

Wow. You have a remarkable command of the IE search function, don't you? Can't say I recall that post, but guessing it was written maybe halfway through the 2013 season re: Golson screwing himself out of that entire season by cheating on a test. So, kind of a different deal. And there were a lot of reasons we lost to Michigan and Oklahoma that year that had nothing to do with who played QB.

Look, I don't blame MZ for going. He was probably never again going to start here, and if that's what he wanted (which is fair), he was right to jump. And I agree he left in a classy fashion. Also agree he was never the same player after he got hurt. But Koon was talking about him like some sort of great leader, pulling his teammates along, and, I'm sorry, but after he lost the starting job last year I just didn't see it. He basically vanished, and a great leader - which this team desperately needed last year - doesn't vanish.
 
dublinirish

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UF coach Jim McElwain: Gators may use three QBs in Michigan opener - Orlando Sentinel

Obviously it’s not ideal,” Notre Dame graduate transfer Malik Zaire said earlier this week about splitting the job. “I don’t think anybody in the quarterback room wants that. But at the end of the day, you just gotta do what coach wants. I feel like coach should be confident enough to stick with a guy and be able to roll with that guy because that’s best for the team.

“When you have all these quarterbacks, you still have none at the end of the day.”
Click to expand...

Zaire is a lockerroom cancer when things don't go his way
 
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IrishLax

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I typed up like a 4 paragraph post on Zaire last night and deleted it because I think this has all but beaten to death...

To put it all in one sentence: even with the value of hindsight can anyone conceive of a scenario with both Zaire + Kizer healthy on the roster last year where the locker room wasn't a disaster?

Like I don't think Kelly managed the situation well, but I also don't know what the hell anyone could've done to correctly manage that situation given the number of guys loyal to Zaire and his attitude not being the starter. Declare Kizer the starter in the offseason, Zaire transfers and his posse ends up pissed... you've lost your "leadership" before the year even starts. Declare Kizer the starter coming out of fall camp and Zaire throws a tantrum heading into a huge week one game at Texas and you can't tell me that the supporting cast loyal to Zaire would've been focused... no, they would've been second guessing Kizer every time he made a mistake and that would've lingered all season with people complaining about Zaire "not getting a fair shot." Or you do what Kelly did and try to play both, and it blows up in your face a different way.

Zaire basically led a mutiny against Golson and got the starting job that way. He's an endearing guy, uber-competitive, great natural leader. That's why so many people were in his corner. The problem comes when you ask him to throw a football, and when you try to justify playing the less talented guy over the obviously more talent guy.
 
Ndaccountant

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IrishLax said:
I typed up like a 4 paragraph post on Zaire last night and deleted it because I think this has all but beaten to death...

To put it all in one sentence: even with the value of hindsight can anyone conceive of a scenario with both Zaire + Kizer healthy on the roster last year where the locker room wasn't a disaster?

Like I don't think Kelly managed the situation well, but I also don't know what the hell anyone could've done to correctly manage that situation given the number of guys loyal to Zaire and his attitude not being the starter. Declare Kizer the starter in the offseason, Zaire transfers and his posse ends up pissed... you've lost your "leadership" before the year even starts. Declare Kizer the starter coming out of fall camp and Zaire throws a tantrum heading into a huge week one game at Texas and you can't tell me that the supporting cast loyal to Zaire would've been focused... no, they would've been second guessing Kizer every time he made a mistake and that would've lingered all season with people complaining about Zaire "not getting a fair shot." Or you do what Kelly did and try to play both, and it blows up in your face a different way.

Zaire basically led a mutiny against Golson and got the starting job that way. He's an endearing guy, uber-competitive, great natural leader. That's why so many people were in his corner. The problem comes when you ask him to throw a football, and when you try to justify playing the less talented guy over the obviously more talent guy.
Click to expand...

It was a difficult situation. I firmly believe that any true leader (Kizer, Zaire, Kelly) should be able to put the team before any individual, especially coming off a season where the starter goes out week 2. Since neither did, all three share accountability.
 
irishog77

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IrishLax said:
I typed up like a 4 paragraph post on Zaire last night and deleted it because I think this has all but beaten to death...

To put it all in one sentence: even with the value of hindsight can anyone conceive of a scenario with both Zaire + Kizer healthy on the roster last year where the locker room wasn't a disaster?

Like I don't think Kelly managed the situation well, but I also don't know what the hell anyone could've done to correctly manage that situation given the number of guys loyal to Zaire and his attitude not being the starter. Declare Kizer the starter in the offseason, Zaire transfers and his posse ends up pissed... you've lost your "leadership" before the year even starts. Declare Kizer the starter coming out of fall camp and Zaire throws a tantrum heading into a huge week one game at Texas and you can't tell me that the supporting cast loyal to Zaire would've been focused... no, they would've been second guessing Kizer every time he made a mistake and that would've lingered all season with people complaining about Zaire "not getting a fair shot." Or you do what Kelly did and try to play both, and it blows up in your face a different way.

Zaire basically led a mutiny against Golson and got the starting job that way. He's an endearing guy, uber-competitive, great natural leader. That's why so many people were in his corner. The problem comes when you ask him to throw a football, and when you try to justify playing the less talented guy over the obviously more talent guy.
Click to expand...

Would guys loyal to Zaire continue to stay in his corner when he sucks it up on the field and Kizer clearly shows he's the better QB? Serious question.

I get what you're saying and understand team/locker room dynamics, but at a certain point, ability and results start to matter. Makes me wonder about the guys willing to possibly stick behind the clearly less capable player too.
 
ThePiombino

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Hopefully he's getting a killer Master's degree out of the deal...

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They better not go 4-8 or Koon will have known Malik would've willed them to a better record. He wouldn't have necessarily won by being a better quarterback but his intangibles would've produced the points necessary.
 
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Henges24

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I think it's fair to say that they will at least have a package for him near the goal line. It's another question if it will be successful.
 
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