'11 SC QB Everett Golson (FSU transfer)

[woolybug25]

Yes he could, but the point of my post above was that the entire team needs to get better and the QB is probably ranked 90th on a list of 100 problems.

I humbly disagree, my friend.

Simply saying that his TD/Int ratio wasn't that bad doesn't tell the entire story of his "deer in the headlights" persona, or his fumbles, or his inability to manufacture plays when things broke down. The offense simply didn't hum with him at the helm. It did with Malik. There is something to that and it shouldn't be discounted.

It all starts with the QB in football. That is a truism.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Greyhammer, I don't want to quote your long post. But in response to your quote of me, I meant he struggled down the stretch and got benched. If he wants a shot at the NFL should he risk that again by staying here if he has a lock on another starting job. I don't think I would.

 

[ginman]

My problem with Golson this year is that he did not seem to improve over the course of the season. For whatever reason he actually seemed to get worse. It seemed as if he lost confidence. I also found it frustrating that during this time he walked away from the coach who was trying to instruct him. That said, I would like to see him mature and come back next season. I think Zaire has some natural advantages, height and speed that give him a higher ceiling.

 

[BobbyMac]

Yes he could, but the point of my post above was that the entire team needs to get better and the QB is probably ranked 90th on a list of 100 problems.

As a Bears fan, we've had a 5 year head start on this same exact problem. You fix the leadership / attitude / consistency deficit at QB and you've won 75% of the battle... the rest is good luck with injuries and grooming young players for a run.

I'd rather have a left handed Tony Rice than a 5-10 Jay Cutler.

.

 

[Ndaccountant]

It's not a loaded question.

Plus:

Why do people talk about Golson and a power running game and how he would have had just as much success if he would have had LSU's game plan all year? Golson isn't the right player for that. Being an athletic undersized QB doesn't make you a good running QB. The LSU game plan doesn't work with Golson. It takes a QB who can run the ball and know when to hand it off or pass. All this talk about Golson's passing and few acknowledge MZ put 14 of 15 passes on the hands of his receivers.

One other thing most have forgotten is how lucky Golson was that an ND player caught the pop up he threw under pressure. Had that been intercepted, even his loyalist supporters would have driven to South Bend to pack his bags. It's pure luck he has any supporters.

If you don't think he can go undefeated next year, it's time to move on to Ziare.

.

1. It's loaded b/c, in my opinion, the defencies EG has is magnified to a pass happy coach. By no means is EG perfect. I just wish people would recognize the bad spot he was put in by BK.

2. There is a difference between having a QB being 50% of the rushing attack versus using power running. Yes, the LSU game relied on MZ running. However, in 2012, we ran the ball with great success with Theo, Wood and good but not spectacular OL. The talent we have on OL now gives us such a distinct advantage if it is developed and utilized in the run game. For EG, I am calling for a more downhill rushing attack focused on TF and GB. Moreover, EG can absolutely be used in the running game. Do you forget OU in 2012? In that game, ND ran the ball 39 times versus 27 throws. Of the 39 runs, EG was 11 of them, including some timely QB draws.

 

[ND NYC]

its fascinating and shocking to me that the QB position continues to be such an issue in year 5 of a Kelly regime.

 

[wizards8507]

1. It's loaded b/c, in my opinion, the defencies EG has is magnified to a pass happy coach. By no means is EG perfect. I just wish people would recognize the bad spot he was put in by BK.

2. There is a difference between having a QB being 50% of the rushing attack versus using power running. Yes, the LSU game relied on MZ running. However, in 2012, we ran the ball with great success with Theo, Wood and good but not spectacular OL. The talent we have on OL now gives us such a distinct advantage if it is developed and utilized in the run game. For EG, I am calling for a more downhill rushing attack focused on TF and GB. Moreover, EG can absolutely be used in the running game. Do you forget OU in 2012? In that game, ND ran the ball 39 times versus 27 throws. Of the 39 runs, EG was 11 of them, including some timely QB draws.

When you line up in this formation, the quarterback IS the downhill running option.

I've said this before but I'll say it again. You need TWO credible running threats on the field at a time to be a successful run-first team. This can be quarterback-running back, split backs, running back-jet motion, quarterback-jet motion, etc. When it's Golson and Folston in the backfield, Folston is getting the ball every time (and the defense knows it) because Golson's body isn't built to take a pounding for 60 minutes.

 

[ND NYC]

not for nothing but does EG (or any draft pundits) really think he has NFL potential?

love EG, but I just don't see it. (have never seen it)

 

[Irish Insanity]

not for nothing but does EG (or any draft pundits) really think he has NFL potential?

love EG, but I just don't see it. (have never seen it)

There were rumblings before he sucked this year.

 

[ulukinatme]

Moreover, EG can absolutely be used in the running game. Do you forget OU in 2012? In that game, ND ran the ball 39 times versus 27 throws. Of the 39 runs, EG was 11 of them, including some timely QB draws.

Sparingly he can be used. His best runs come when a play breaks down, he doesn't do as well on designed runs. He absolutely blows when it comes to reading the edge on the option, Zaire did a great job with this against LSU, much better than Hendrix or Golson ever have. There's also the fact that the more often Golson takes off with the ball, the more often he ends up fumbling it away.

 

[ulukinatme]

I'm gonna say it...Golson has become our Denard Robinson. He's a better passer, not quite as shifty, but has all the turnover problems. They're both athletes and not QBs.

 

[Redbar]

60% completion percentage with 33 points per game? I understand that the season didn't have the fairy tale ending that everyone wanted but this scapegoating of Golson is pretty ridiculous. I love Kelly, and he's ND's coach, but the way this season ended is on him. If Golson had been given a run/pass percentage like what was in the bowl game all year, the turnovers would have gone down and the defense would have spent more time off the field. Instead, Kelly put way too much on Golson's plate mentally and we started to see Golson break down by the end of the year. And even his breakdown wasn't as terrible as everyone seems to think. He had one truly bad game against USC, that's really it.

Rice: Killed it. (According to Wizards, the crowd was angry with Golson at this game. Just a reminder.)
Michigan: KILLED it
Purdue: Defense played like garbage, zero turnovers from Everett, 2 touchdown passes and one rushing touchdown.
Syracuse: 2 interceptions from Golson... on a day where he went 32-39 for 4 touchdowns. Yeah, I think he's alright here.
Stanford: 1 interception. On rainy, windy, freezing day where Kelly had him throw the ball 43 TIMES!?!? Oh and yes he had some late game heroics. But we wouldn't had needed them had our special teams not completely sucked all game. We would have had a comfortable 3 point lead to kill the clock with.
North Carolina: 3 turnovers. Not good. On the other hand, the offense scored 50 points, and the defense gave up 36 points to a mediocre North Carolina offense.
Florida State: He won the game.
Navy: Offense scored 49 points. Defense allowed 39. We might as well call for Jaylon to get replaced.
Arizona State: Lots of turnovers. But how many were really Everett's fault? Two interceptions were because the DL tipped the ball. Is Golson suddenly responsible for making sure his OL does their jobs? Another interception hit one of his WR's in the chest and bounced into an Arizona State players arms. The fumbles were bad but he was sacked 7 times in this game with a coach who refused to help him out and run the ball with any kind of consistency in the first half. Further, the defense gave up 41 POINTS.
Northwestern: Offense scored 40 points. Golson had 2 turnovers. One was right before half and resulted in no points for Northwestern, the other I can't remember. So, even assuming his single fumble was directly responsible for a touchdown (which I don't think it was), the defense gave up 36 points to Northwestern. Special teams also shit their pants.
Louisville: Defense got completely ran over. Offense scored 28 points against a top 5 defense, put us in a position to take it to OT and special teams shit their pants again.
USC: Bad game by Golson, bad game by the defense, bad game by the coaches.

Do I think Golson is perfect? Hell no. Do I think Golson's turnovers hurt us? Hell yes. Do I think Golson's turnovers hurt us more than a hurt defense, a nonexistent running game and a stubborn head coach? Hell no. Do I think Golson is a scapegoat by unintelligent armchair QBs who can't come to terms with the fact that we weren't a very good football team this year? Absolutely.

I was and am extremely high on Malik, but this sports fans is the absolute reality of this situation. Thanks for taking the time to verbalize greyhammer.

 

[BobbyMac]

EG is NOT a credible every down running threat. He cannot take the beating, he does not know how to take a hit. He has poor instincts when it comes to defenders around him. He is a basketball player, playing football. When he shines running is on the rare times he rolls out without getting caught in the collapsing pocket and gets one on one with DE/LB/S ...throws a stutter-step and pump-fake and makes a play. He doesn't have that burst from the split second the play calls for the run. MZ does. This has nothing to do with who's a better athlete, EG's basketball film is pretty much incredible as far as athleticism but it doesn't translate to football very well. MZ is clearly a built for football better than EG is and has given nobody a reason to think that he isn't the better option for next year and then you throw in he's your only option between these two in '16 & '17.

.

 

[irishfan]

I think EG lost Kelly's confidence "in full" after the ASU debacle in the desert.
that game was Kelly's "last straw", and when I think he said to himself "i just cant go with EG anymore, and especially next year, so I need to get Malik going soon as I can"

with Kelly, it takes a while to lose him, but once you do...that's it.
(see Crist, Dayne--his "lost you" moment was that USC goaline fumble)

Then why was Golson the one leading us down the field for the game winning FG against LSU as opposed to Malik? One turover by Golson, and the game was lost. I think it's clear that Golson is miles ahead of Zaire as a passer (talking more than just arm strength), or else Zaire would've been the one leading that drive.

I know a lot of people think that BK has given up on Golson, and that's why Zaire started. I think it's more likely that he wanted to try and spark Golson into being more focused this Spring and Summer. If he really 100% thought MZ was his guy going forward, he would have let him lead that drive.

 

[wizards8507]

Then why was Golson the one leading us down the field for the game winning FG against LSU as opposed to Malik? One turover by Golson, and the game was lost. I think it's clear that Golson is miles ahead of Zaire as a passer (talking more than just arm strength), or else Zaire would've been the one leading that drive.

I know a lot of people think that BK has given up on Golson, and that's why Zaire started. I think it's more likely that he wanted to try and spark Golson into being more focused this Spring and Summer. If he really 100% thought MZ was his guy going forward, he would have let him lead that drive.

Rees rescues No. 22 Notre Dame in 20-17 win over Purdue – USATODAY.com

Notre Dame-Michigan: Notre Dame relies on defense and Tommy Rees - Chicago Tribune

Notre Dame Football: Is Tommy Rees the Irish MVP Through 7 Games? | Bleacher Report

Sometimes the "guy going forward," even if 100%, isn't the guy for "right this second."

 

[Redbar]

EG is NOT a credible every down running threat. He cannot take the beating, he does not know how to take a hit. He has poor instincts when it comes to defenders around him. He is a basketball player, playing football. When he shines running is on the rare times he rolls out without getting caught in the collapsing pocket and gets one on one with DE/LB/S ...throws a stutter-step and pump-fake and makes a play. He doesn't have that burst from the split second the play calls for the run. MZ does. This has nothing to do with who's a better athlete, EG's basketball film is pretty much incredible as far as athleticism but it doesn't translate to football very well. MZ is clearly a built for football better than EG is and has given nobody a reason to think that he isn't the better option for next year and then you throw in he's your only option between these two in '16 & '17.

.

I agree with all of this also, but there is no way anybody should be holding the door for EG, certainly not Coach Kelly. Me thinks EG will likely be our starter with a heavy dose of Malik Zaire. Any other arrangement and we probably lose EG and I simply cannot see us entering next year with only MZ, DK, MVG, and BW. You have the potential to push for a playoff spot with both EG and MZ, with only MZ you are one twisted ankle from being totally screwed. I know everyone is pumped about Malik, I think and wrote that he should have gotten playing time long before he did. If only to settle EG and Coach Kelly down, let EG refocus on what he does very well, rest the defense, give the OL a chance to fire out on the DL a bit, and run some read option. The bowl game was not IMO an indication that Golson is done in South Bend, but more an indication of how successful this two headed monster could be.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Sparingly he can be used. His best runs come when a play breaks down, he doesn't do as well on designed runs. He absolutely blows when it comes to reading the edge on the option, Zaire did a great job with this against LSU, much better than Hendrix or Golson ever have. There's also the fact that the more often Golson takes off with the ball, the more often he ends up fumbling it away.

There are more rushing opportunities for a QB besides the zone read. It isn't an either / or type of thing.

 

[Ndaccountant]

When you line up in this formation, the quarterback IS the downhill running option.

I've said this before but I'll say it again. You need TWO credible running threats on the field at a time to be a successful run-first team. This can be quarterback-running back, split backs, running back-jet motion, quarterback-jet motion, etc. When it's Golson and Folston in the backfield, Folston is getting the ball every time (and the defense knows it) because Golson's body isn't built to take a pounding for 60 minutes.

Sure. But is the problem the formation/offensive strategy or EG?

That is why I said what I did. If BK truly wanted to design an offense around EG strengths, running 75% of the formations out of a 4 wide shotgun set isn't it. I have little faith that BK will change his stripes, which is why I think MZ is the better QB for ND. But that doesn't mean I think EG is not capable of leading this team to playoff birth. It all depends on Kelly IMO.

 

[wizards8507]

There are more rushing opportunities for a QB besides the zone read. It isn't an either / or type of thing.

His inability to make the read is the mental problem, but the bigger (IMO) problem is his size. Whether it's draws or boots or any kind of designed QB runs, BK isn't going to call those plays more than a few times per game. He's explicitly said this before. Golson doesn't have the "body armor" (BK's words) to run the ball consistently.

 

[wizards8507]

Sure. But is the problem the formation/offensive strategy or EG?

That is why I said what I did. If BK truly wanted to design an offense around EG strengths, running 75% of the formations out of a 4 wide shotgun set isn't it. I have little faith that BK will change his stripes, which is why I think MZ is the better QB for ND. But that doesn't mean I think EG is not capable of leading this team to playoff birth. It all depends on Kelly IMO.

I think we agree then. The problem with Golson the quarterback is only partly due to Golson the player. The other part of the problem is BK the play caller.

 

[Ndaccountant]

His inability to make the read is the mental problem, but the bigger (IMO) problem is his size. Whether it's draws or boots or any kind of designed QB runs, BK isn't going to call those plays more than a few times per game. He's explicitly said this before. Golson doesn't have the "body armor" (BK's words) to run the ball consistently.

How many times do you want your QB running the ball per game? Mariota this year has something like 125 rushes (including sacks). That is roughly 9 rushes per game.

As I pointed out before, EG ran the ball that much and more in select games in 2012 and was effective. With the proper design, he can be a threat.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I think we agree then. The problem with Golson the quarterback is only partly due to Golson the player. The other part of the problem is BK the play caller.

Yes....that is exactly my sentiment.

 

[BobbyMac]

I agree with all of this also, but there is no way anybody should be holding the door for EG, certainly not Coach Kelly. Me thinks EG will likely be our starter with a heavy dose of Malik Zaire. Any other arrangement and we probably lose EG and I simply cannot see us entering next year with only MZ, DK, MVG, and BW. You have the potential to push for a playoff spot with both EG and MZ, with only MZ you are one twisted ankle from being totally screwed. I know everyone is pumped about Malik, I think and wrote that he should have gotten playing time long before he did. If only to settle EG and Coach Kelly down, let EG refocus on what he does very well, rest the defense, give the OL a chance to fire out on the DL a bit, and run some read option. The bowl game was not IMO an indication that Golson is done in South Bend, but more an indication of how successful this two headed monster could be.

I by no means want EG to leave. My written positions are on who each QB is and how that relates in Kelly's system with the players he currently has on roster.

That being said, I am unfortunately almost 100% sure EG is gone.

If he stays, he will not be the full time QB. The opportunity cost is too high to sit on the bench when he can go to East Carolina and throw for over 4000 yards in a system similar to what he has at ND. ECU provides him with a clear path to the NFL. He may end up at any number of Power 5 schools but ECU is a no brainer.

I'm sure we are going to hear more about him reaching out to LSU also. It's the position of a major newspaper that HE reached out to LSU, which means Les Miles or someone on his staff. I believe that 100%. I do not believe it was an intermediary or someone close to his 'camp' or someone 'close to the LSU program'. EG spoke to their staff. The Times-Picayune's wording was very different when it came to Braxton Miller's contact. T-P / NOLA.com aren't your average Twitter groupie/recruiting board/juco journalism hacks. This is the company that owns properties like The Plain-Dealer, the Oregonian, GQ, The New Yorker and Vanity Fair. This company doesn't get things wrong as a rule.

Now, if EG spoke with the LSU staff. One of two things is true: Kelly ok'd it or he didn't. It is probable he did which means he is ok with his QB shopping and the ramifications that go with that. I can't speak for Kelly but when you are on my team you are with us as long as you're with us. For me, that's a bell that can't be un-rung. On the other side, If he didn't ok it, he's double screwed and so is someone at LSU for taking the call.

So either way, I think this is already done and EG is gone as soon as he gets his paper.

I certainly hope the report from T-P is somehow incorrect and I hope EG is part of the Irish program next year. We saw how important it is to have 2 capable QB's in 2012 and the success it garnered, what having only one capable QB in 2013 produced and how not playing both of your capable QB's in 2014 damaged the final record.

.

 

[ND NYC]

I think what lot of are saying/trying to say is that:

with malik at QB it sort of "forces" BK into running the type of offense we feel we need to win (the one we saw vs LSU) and "protect our D" (keep them off the field). we need long sustained drives

this a fair statement?

 

[irishfan]

Rees rescues No. 22 Notre Dame in 20-17 win over Purdue – USATODAY.com

Notre Dame-Michigan: Notre Dame relies on defense and Tommy Rees - Chicago Tribune

Notre Dame Football: Is Tommy Rees the Irish MVP Through 7 Games? | Bleacher Report

Sometimes the "guy going forward," even if 100%, isn't the guy for "right this second."

I get your point, but this wasn't to keep an undefeated season alive. It was in a borderline meaningless game.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I think what lot of are saying/trying to say is that:

with malik at QB it sort of "forces" BK into running the type of offense we feel we need to win (the one we saw vs LSU) and "protect our D" (keep them off the field). we need long sustained drives

this a fair statement?

Idk if we need that type of O next year to win, but we did this year and didn't use it

 

[woolybug25]

I get your point, but this wasn't to keep an undefeated season alive. It was in a borderline meaningless game.

Bowl games aren't meaningless. Players and coaches do whatever strategy they think is necessary to win that particular game. They don't think "oh well, this game isn't important anyways".

 

[ulukinatme]

If Golson is starting at QB for us in the fall, then I promise Jimmymac will do a naked lap around campus!

 

[greyhammer90]

I humbly disagree, my friend.

Simply saying that his TD/Int ratio wasn't that bad doesn't tell the entire story of his "deer in the headlights" persona, or his fumbles, or his inability to manufacture plays when things broke down. The offense simply didn't hum with him at the helm. It did with Malik. There is something to that and it shouldn't be discounted.

It all starts with the QB in football. That is a truism.

Well the if scoring 40 isn't "humming" I don't know what will satisfy this site, and I feel very sorry for Malik next year because walking on water will dissapoint some posters at this rate.

As to the bowl performance, I would say it's far more likely the consistent implementation of the running game was the catalyst of our fortune. Not the QB handing the ball off.

 

[BobbyMac]

I think what lot of are saying/trying to say is that:

with malik at QB it sort of "forces" BK into running the type of offense we feel we need to win (the one we saw vs LSU) and "protect our D" (keep them off the field). we need long sustained drives

this a fair statement?

Forces or allows? I like allows. It controlled the clock, reduced 3rd and longs and eliminated T/O's. I don't see why MZ can't be the JT Barrett. They were rated neck in neck coming out of high school and Malik performed better at the Elite 11 if I remember correctly. The other thing is... If this was a one time offensive tweak that allowed you to run at will on one of the best rush defenses in the country... what would it do to all the lesser teams??? Maybe someone's been running the wrong offense with the wrong drop back passers since he got here? (Excuse me while I wallow in my Epiphany)

Idk if we need that type of O next year to win, but we did this year and didn't use it

There is little doubt that if ND would have played THAT EXACT way against the rest of the schedule, Jameis would have been the only person who could have beaten them.

Next year? I'd rather play a left handed Tony Rice over a 5-10 Jay Cutler.

.