Is Chris Badger the leader ND has been waiting for?

tommyIRISH23

Well-known member
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
156
I hadn't really known to much about him until I read that writeup that the South Bend Trib did on him.

Again, I really don't know anything about him, and it may be all talk but if the article provides a clear representation of his character he is surely destined for greatness both on, and off the field. His disipline, and dedication mixed with his determination really make you believe he is going to be an exceptional leader. His faith powers him to be great, and his belief in God leaves him no doubt of what he is capable of.

I really hope that his personality is contagious, and he becomes the strength that the team rallies around when faced with any challenge. Basically, I am hoping he becomes a Tebow. Tebow's conviction and ability to lead are second to none, the guy just has the gift of inspiration.

Hopefully Badger's faith and conviction are just as contagious, and he grows into that leader.
 

NDinFL

New member
Messages
2,946
Reaction score
278
I hadn't really known to much about him until I read that writeup that the South Bend Trib did on him.

Again, I really don't know anything about him, and it may be all talk but if the article provides a clear representation of his character he is surely destined for greatness both on, and off the field. His disipline, and dedication mixed with his determination really make you believe he is going to be an exceptional leader. His faith powers him to be great, and his belief in God leaves him no doubt of what he is capable of.

I really hope that his personality is contagious, and he becomes the strength that the team rallies around when faced with any challenge. Basically, I am hoping he becomes a Tebow. Tebow's conviction and ability to lead are second to none, the guy just has the gift of inspiration.

Hopefully Badger's faith and conviction are just as contagious, and he grows into that leader.

I think it's certainly possible...

I mean, just look at how Harrison Smith stepped up and became a leader on the defense...
 

Rhode Irish

Semi-retired
Messages
7,057
Reaction score
900
Obviously, to be a leader it helps to be good enough to get on the field. In fairness, none of us know what kind of player Badger is going to be. Having said that, though, he certainly seems like he has all the personality traits required to lead his peers.

I hate to put undue pressure on the kid by expecting him to be the next 'leader' of the football team, but it certainly isn't an absurd question to ask. I think the ingredients are there.
 

D-BOE34

F*** Michigan
Messages
1,730
Reaction score
81
If he hits college boys like he did in high school, he will be a leader by action on the field! Him being a great person off the field will just add to that.
 

woolybug25

#1 Vineyard Vines Fan
Messages
17,677
Reaction score
3,018
Chris Badger is going to have to focus on becoming a starter first. The love for this kid is bordering on absurd at times. Leaders of teams need to be key contributors, and this kid hasn't played a single down. I hope that Badger can one day be a good player for us, but he hasn't played the game in two years. So trying to paint a picture of him being a leader of a team he may never even start on is pretty silly.

Just because a kid is a good person and believes in god doesn't make him a leader. Please remember, while he had a good tape and seems like a good kid, he was a unanimous 3* prospect, two years removed from the game. So color me skeptical of him being more likely to be a future leader than guys like Aaron Lynch.
 

DSully1995

New member
Messages
1,103
Reaction score
74
Im fine with Nix being the team leader, I feel like hell create a brotherhood feel more than anyone else, and thats how i want ND players competing, family on and off the team.
 

BobD

Can't get no satisfaction
Messages
7,918
Reaction score
1,034
He's a great young man on a team full of great young men.
 

STLDomer

Schmitty
Messages
9,426
Reaction score
549
If Badger starts he'll be a leader, but a Tebow no. Leaders like that on defense are rare (ray Lewis).

A depth chart question if hardy/Prosise are the free safetys and Badger/Collinsworth are the strong safetys. Where do people see the hybrids shumate/baratti playing? Do they compete to start at SS or FS or are they forever delagated to playing in the nickel/four man front formations
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
6,453
If I am a coach, I'm looking for more than one kind of leadership to make my ball club work. There are several forms of "idealistic" leadership which I am all for [perfect citizen; great in front of the media; etc] but I could actually get along with "OK" in those areas. The two types of leaderships that I want to emerge are:

A). Leadership on the practice field, weight room, off-season training etc., and

B). Leadership on the field.

"A" is possibly an individual leader but more likely comes from a group of fired up "elder statesmen" on the team who "suggest" to the other guys that they put in some extra time, make a bigger sacrifice, to become champions. I have no insight into the inner workings of the team on this. I have an intuition that we don't have many such fiery insistent characters, or even blunt call-you-out guys, because it DOES seem that Big Lou as a sophomore has had to do some of this. This is what Pat Knight was talking about recently about the seniors on his basketball team. Usually this is the seniors-to-be job, with other obvious team leaders sprinkled in. A bunch of the players last season were even talking about Tommy trying to take on this larger role, even though they should have been ashamed of themselves that he ever thought he had to, given his age and what he had on his own plate. Hopefully Nix and his young buddy Tuitt can get the rest of our "gentlemen" more overtly motivated to bust butt.

What the OP was talking about was probably "B". But in my view there are two forms of "B" who are often also not the same guy. One "B" is the well-known "Coach-on-the-field". Someone who you can completely trust to get your unit operating smoothly. Harrison was that guy extraordinaire for the defense. Tommy tried to be that guy for the offense, and actually was pretty good at that part [pre-snap] of quarterbacking, which is why Coach had him in there despite the other deficiencies. You have to have pre-snap systemic coaches-in-training or you can't operate in 21st century football.

But who I think that we nearly totally lacked these last seasons was the second type of "B" leader --- that's the in-game leader who semi-violently gets in the faces of his teammates to challenge them to rise up, or stokes the fire when they're already roaring. I'm not very interested in this "I lead by example" crap. Yes, it's great to have outstanding athletes, but that isn't always enough. I would like to see ND leaders ranging up and down the sidelines yelling and shaking their teammates and turning their gorilla juices on in the heat of the game. Well-behaved sidelines, in that sense, are for the mediocre.

Could Badger ever be any of these sorts of guys?? Why not? He is allegedly a work-out warrior, maybe he can fire others up to that status too. He's apparently very smart, and would be in field position at strong safety to "coach" the pre-play defense. Can he get "gorilla"? He might be a nice Mormon boy, but some of them are not really choirboys, so let's see.

Whatever, he'll not solve our leadership issues this coming year; that's asking a bit much for a rookie. Who I'm looking for is the Nix/Lynch/Tuitt combination. Lou has the brains and the frankness, Aaron has the explosive demonstrative ferocity, and Stephon... well Stephon's bigger than you. If we can just get someone like Zach Martin raging at his O-Line buddies, we'll be REAL hard to deal with when the going is getting rough in the games. We need to get just a little bit "crazier" during gametime.... just a little bit Coach, don't panic.
 

phgreek

New member
Messages
6,956
Reaction score
433
he's now two years older than the average freshman and he's done some work the past two years mentoring/taking on a leadership role.

This is a pretty big point...Why do you all think BYU has more than its share of slain giants at its feet? Talent? Skill? Speed? Scheme? Nope...you can't rattle them, and there is simply no moment on a football field thats too big.


I believe the mission field (depending on where you go) offers immersion training for more than a foreign language. Rather it is intended, or just a beneficial consequence, these guys come back mature, motivated, grounded, and seemingly unflappable...perfect slate upon which Diaco and the boys can write...he'll need to survive this year...and I don't expect him to be more than a special teams guy until 13, but you watch him...there will be comments ablout his attitude, preparedness, work ethic....and how you can't shake his focus or him in any way...he'll be a machine on the field...to me, thats the leadership we need...just be bigger than any moment you are in...we seem to struggle with that more than ANY particular skill.

That said, I predict Badger will be a leader by the time he's done...
 

Rhode Irish

Semi-retired
Messages
7,057
Reaction score
900
If I am a coach, I'm looking for more than one kind of leadership to make my ball club work. There are several forms of "idealistic" leadership which I am all for [perfect citizen; great in front of the media; etc] but I could actually get along with "OK" in those areas. The two types of leaderships that I want to emerge are:

A). Leadership on the practice field, weight room, off-season training etc., and

B). Leadership on the field.

"A" is possibly an individual leader but more likely comes from a group of fired up "elder statesmen" on the team who "suggest" to the other guys that they put in some extra time, make a bigger sacrifice, to become champions. I have no insight into the inner workings of the team on this. I have an intuition that we don't have many such fiery insistent characters, or even blunt call-you-out guys, because it DOES seem that Big Lou as a sophomore has had to do some of this. This is what Pat Knight was talking about recently about the seniors on his basketball team. Usually this is the seniors-to-be job, with other obvious team leaders sprinkled in. A bunch of the players last season were even talking about Tommy trying to take on this larger role, even though they should have been ashamed of themselves that he ever thought he had to, given his age and what he had on his own plate. Hopefully Nix and his young buddy Tuitt can get the rest of our "gentlemen" more overtly motivated to bust butt.

What the OP was talking about was probably "B". But in my view there are two forms of "B" who are often also not the same guy. One "B" is the well-known "Coach-on-the-field". Someone who you can completely trust to get your unit operating smoothly. Harrison was that guy extraordinaire for the defense. Tommy tried to be that guy for the offense, and actually was pretty good at that part [pre-snap] of quarterbacking, which is why Coach had him in there despite the other deficiencies. You have to have pre-snap systemic coaches-in-training or you can't operate in 21st century football.

But who I think that we nearly totally lacked these last seasons was the second type of "B" leader --- that's the in-game leader who semi-violently gets in the faces of his teammates to challenge them to rise up, or stokes the fire when they're already roaring. I'm not very interested in this "I lead by example" crap. Yes, it's great to have outstanding athletes, but that isn't always enough. I would like to see ND leaders ranging up and down the sidelines yelling and shaking their teammates and turning their gorilla juices on in the heat of the game. Well-behaved sidelines, in that sense, are for the mediocre.

Could Badger ever be any of these sorts of guys?? Why not? He is allegedly a work-out warrior, maybe he can fire others up to that status too. He's apparently very smart, and would be in field position at strong safety to "coach" the pre-play defense. Can he get "gorilla"? He might be a nice Mormon boy, but some of them are not really choirboys, so let's see.

Whatever, he'll not solve our leadership issues this coming year; that's asking a bit much for a rookie. Who I'm looking for is the Nix/Lynch/Tuitt combination. Lou has the brains and the frankness, Aaron has the explosive demonstrative ferocity, and Stephon... well Stephon's bigger than you. If we can just get someone like Zach Martin raging at his O-Line buddies, we'll be REAL hard to deal with when the going is getting rough in the games. We need to get just a little bit "crazier" during gametime.... just a little bit Coach, don't panic.

I wonder if the fact that Michael Floyd was clearly the most talented player on offense, and yet clearly not an alpha-dog "B-II" type of leader you were talking about, prevented another guy from stepping into that role. For example, what if TJ Jones (just picking a plausible name, not trying to get into a debate on whether he actually fits the bill) wanted to get in peoples faces and pump up his teammates and whatever else goes with that role, but because of his place on the totem pole on offense he didn't feel like he could. Now, that door is wide open for a player to step up - both on the field and in that "B-II" leadership role.

Mike, in your view, how important is to be either The Guy, or at least among The Guys, in order to step into that role? It seems like a prerequisite that you're at least a solid contributor-plus, if not a legit star.


[I know this is slightly off topic from Badger, since nobody is talking about him being the alpha leader on gameday in 2012, but I think Mike brought up an interesting point. And considering where this thread has gone, this slight detour off topic seems like a slight improvement.]
 

Praytorian

New member
Messages
584
Reaction score
17
Just because a kid is a good person and believes in god doesn't make him a leader. Please remember, while he had a good tape and seems like a good kid, he was a unanimous 3* prospect, two years removed from the game. So color me skeptical of him being more likely to be a future leader than guys like Aaron Lynch.

Ok so your gonna tell a guy not to hope someone will become a leader because he is a unanimous 3* prospect? Yet you want Golson to come in and be our saving grace at QB.

If a man wants to post his hopes online don't say he can't, or ask him to back it up. He just observed something and wanted to share his opinion on it. Whats wrong with that?

I hope that he CAN come in and do an amazing job. Why not have a Badgering at ND? I'd root for him.
 
Last edited:
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
Ok so your gonna tell a guy not to hope someone will become a leader because he is a unanimous 3* prospect? Yet you want Golsen to come in and be our saving grace at QB.

If a man wants to post his hopes online don't say he can't, or ask him to back it up. He just observed something and wanted to share his opinion on it. Whats wrong with that?

I hope that he CAN come in and do an amazing job. Why not have a Badgering at ND? I'd root for him.

Comparing Golson is a baaad idea. Golson is very, very athletic (was going to play football and basketball at UNC), not a consensus three-star, had a better offer list (I think?), and had one of the best highlight tapes ever.
 

ThePiombino

The OG "TP"
Messages
16,476
Reaction score
6,245
Ok so your gonna tell a guy not to hope someone will become a leader because he is a unanimous 3* prospect? Yet you want Golsen to come in and be our saving grace at QB.

Would it be too much to ask a ND FAN to spell the players' names correctly? Thanks.

Comparing Golson is a baaad idea. Golson is very, very athletic (was going to play football and basketball at UNC), not a consensus three-star, had a better offer list (I think?), and had one of the best highlight tapes ever.

Not to mention a record setting QB from a relatively good football state. I agree- apples and oranges here.
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
6,453
To Rhode: Those off-the-field "A" leaders and gametime "B-2" leaders MUST have "street-cred" someway or another with the guys they're trying to push. That's why "seniority" often is part of the credentials. I believe that offense and defense are somewhat different on this. Offense is something like a military unit. The system has chain-of-command built into it, right down to who can even talk and when. At the pre-snap, everyone must have bought into the play whether they agree with the higher command or not [sure, this is also true on defense in a literal sense, but the atmosphere surrounding game-day offense is much more chain-of-command]. Because of this subconscious atmosphere, I believe that it is easier for a quarterback to truly "take charge" [even emotionally] at a time when his seniority is not yet there. Everyone on offense instinctively looks to the quarterback at the end and in the huddle interval of every play. What is he saying? How strongly/resolutely is he saying it? Does he sound like he believes it? What are his eyes saying? What's his body language? The entire offense WANTS this guy to look like he's ready to roll and confident "if we just do our parts of the job". That's why if you're not the quarterback it's hard to lead on the field while the game is in progress.

That doesn't mean that offensive leadership is not possible for someone else just after the whistle or while the O is on the sidelines. That's where a Mike Floyd could have been roaming about getting in the faces of a Theo Riddick, a TJ Jones, a Cierre Wood et al. It is more likely [or more often seen] that this takes place within the closed fraternity of the offensive line. And, if you're not "one of the fraternity", you have to have a LOT of street cred to come over to their neighborhood of the bench and get in their faces. Obviously coaches do it. A rare QB like Tebow can get away with it. But it is usually one of their own. Braxton Cave has huge street cred as a monster and a don't ever quit guy. He could easily be that guy if he had the personality. A Zach Martin has now developed the street cred to turn on his posse and let fly. A sophomore O-Lineman can't do it.

Defensively, the atmosphere is less like a military unit and more like a wolfpack. There's the time for discipline and "system" of course, but there's a lot more "free time" for near-mayhem-like roaring about and challenging one another. Here again it was the wrong personality in our alpha-wolf, Manti. He like Mike just isn't built for getting after his own guys. With the overwhelmingly acknowledged alpha-dog unwilling to take that role, it has been harder for others to step into it. Harrison was not that sort of in-your-face guy, either. I doubt that Jamoris, who last year was actually fighting for playing time early, has "ascended" to that position. Who can? The D-Line and middle linebackers have almost always had that aura about them of the great monsters of the defense who carry a frightening violence just below the surface. If the right sort of athlete exists there [seniority in the sense of having proved something on the field, plus overtly evocative personality --- you have to be at least a little likable, too], his teammates will listen when he's getting after them. VERY rarely can an offensive player "come over" to their bench neighborhood and rouse the troops. Again, that's why Tebow was so odd --- but to my eye, even he cultivated that relationship with the defense, and even when yelling, was saying exhortive things, not criticism. A monster can call out other monsters; mere olympic gods cannot.

Two further things: 1). I think that we have been unlucky. Our great stars have been devoid of these blunt challenging personalities. They are great performers and never quitters, but they have not done much game-time to pull the others along. We have youngsters who seem to have the potential, and are getting the street cred.

Now, something that I shouldn't say: 2): I believe that the Notre Dame football experience has been a bit too orderly and chain-of-command. I do not know this, but it seems from the outside that the Weis regime AND the Kelly regime both [in their different ways] put a excessive damper on the release of raw emotion. I realize that not to do so would be playing with fire, but the corporate atmosphere must allow some of this to allow the [in practice and in game ... shall we call it "aggressive"? ...] teammate-to-teammate exchanges, if we're going to get to those areas of useful leadership, or if it's always going to be repressed. Note how the staff [and even some players], seemed a little shocked at how "demonstrative" Aaron Lynch naturally is on the field? I say, go for it, Aaron... just don't get a penalty. I think that Kelly is so obviously and completely "The General" that it's just a little too much. It's up to him to set the tone. We'll see if he has that particular talent in him. Diaco also seems one of the more conservative "behavior-managers" as well. Maybe the added burden of this being Notre Dame, where everyone's an elite paragon of social virtue allegedly, makes overt leadership of some of these sorts harder to achieve.
 

BGIF

Varsity Club
Messages
43,946
Reaction score
2,922
Is Chris Badger the leader ND has been waiting for?

I agree with IrishNuke's laconic, "No." Nuke responded to the OP's question. Reps Nuke!

The question wasn't will Badger become a leader but rather "the leader ND has been waiting for"

There's no argument about Badger's character. His talent on a Division 1 field has yet to be seen.

Regardless he doesn't play a position that evokes the memories of Bertelli, Lujack, Hart, Lattner, Hornung, Huarte, or Brown. I really liked Mike Anello, "Mr. Special Teams" he was inspiring on kick coverage but I don't recall the team turning to him for leadership.

The Rocket was one of the greatest athlete's to play the game and his kicks returns were inspirational but could he rally the troops from the sidelines?

I think of guys like Nick Buoniconti who excelled at ND during a bleak period in ND history. Chris Zorich who led a team of leaders. Coley O'Brien battling diabetes yet coming off the bench to replace a fallen leader in The Game of The Century and the next week leading the team to a 51-0 rout of #10 Southern Cal to wrap up a National Championship. Joey Getherall, pound for pound perhaps the toughest ND player of all time playing through pain, rallying the team with kick return against Nebraska, showing Javin Hunter on the sidelines after a broken up pass, how to use his body to keep a defender away from the pass.

Aaron Taylor, Jeff Faine, there are many others ND players I recall who emodied leadership on the field, and off.

I'm curious who the OP believes to be the last ND leader, the one we've been waiting since.
 

irishpat183

Banned
Messages
5,625
Reaction score
504
We need players. I'm sure there is no shortage of character guys at a University like ND...

I don't care if he turns out to be the "next leader"...just go out and perform.
 

Emcee77

latress on the men-jay
Messages
7,295
Reaction score
555
I'm curious who the OP believes to be the last ND leader, the one we've been waiting since.

^Me too, I guess. If the question is, will Chris Badger be the next Harrison Smith, a leader, captain and every-down starter who keeps the ND defense organized, then I think it's a good question. Badger is a high-character guy who seems to have a lot of talent. If the question is, will Chris Badger be the next ND legend (and this is what, standing alone, "leader we've been waiting for" seems to imply), then I agree that the question is premature at best.
 

Rhode Irish

Semi-retired
Messages
7,057
Reaction score
900
Mike: certainly, with the offense, the QB is the ideal guy to be the alpha dog, B-II type of leader, because he has the "cred" with the line and the skill positions. The reason I didn't even address it is because, at least for 2012, I don't see any real possibility that that type of leadership comes from the QB position. When you don't have a QB that can/will get in the faces of the linemen and the skill players, you probably need compartmentalized leadership - an OL leading the other OLs, a skill player leading the other skill players. Seem right to you?
 

phgreek

New member
Messages
6,956
Reaction score
433
The question wasn't will Badger become a leader but rather "the leader ND has been waiting for"

...does it make me a politician if I responded to a response to a response and concluded my response based on how I wanted the question to be asked...:)
 

tommyIRISH23

Well-known member
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
156
I agree with IrishNuke's laconic, "No." Nuke responded to the OP's question. Reps Nuke!

The question wasn't will Badger become a leader but rather "the leader ND has been waiting for"

There's no argument about Badger's character. His talent on a Division 1 field has yet to be seen.

Regardless he doesn't play a position that evokes the memories of Bertelli, Lujack, Hart, Lattner, Hornung, Huarte, or Brown. I really liked Mike Anello, "Mr. Special Teams" he was inspiring on kick coverage but I don't recall the team turning to him for leadership.

The Rocket was one of the greatest athlete's to play the game and his kicks returns were inspirational but could he rally the troops from the sidelines?

I think of guys like Nick Buoniconti who excelled at ND during a bleak period in ND history. Chris Zorich who led a team of leaders. Coley O'Brien battling diabetes yet coming off the bench to replace a fallen leader in The Game of The Century and the next week leading the team to a 51-0 rout of #10 Southern Cal to wrap up a National Championship. Joey Getherall, pound for pound perhaps the toughest ND player of all time playing through pain, rallying the team with kick return against Nebraska, showing Javin Hunter on the sidelines after a broken up pass, how to use his body to keep a defender away from the pass.

Aaron Taylor, Jeff Faine, there are many others ND players I recall who emodied leadership on the field, and off.

I'm curious who the OP believes to be the last ND leader, the one we've been waiting since.



Sorry for the delayed response. Old Man Mike his the nail on the head. I am not saying he is going to be the most talented player, or even start this year, but there are many ways to lead. Also, to go with another poster, Badger is grounded, and seems like he will keep his composure in any situation. I made the comparison to Tebow not because of Tebows skill, but for his inate ability to lead. His confidence wasnt just in himself but in that he would make the other players raise their game, especially when the games on the line and a big play is needed. I value the good player who leads with tough love and sets the bar high with the ability to make the players around him better more so then the great player who can change the game on his own.

The last time ND had a leader cut from the cloth of tebow, ray lewis, brian dawkins..? Honestly, I've got no idea. Floyd was a leader, BQ was a leader, Tate was a leader...but they weren't the same as those guys. I want ND to have a player that is going to be the glue that holds the team together. The player who doesnt quit until perfection and doesn't accept mediocrity.
 
Top