Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[stlnd01]

Would be interesting to pick the brain of Denbrock on his decision to leave LSU for ND. Is it because he really likes being at ND that much or did he see the BK ship sinking at LSU? Or both?

Most people do not work at a school three separate times under three different coaching regimes, so I would guess more the former than the latter.

He also had a relationship with Freeman and other of our coaches that I’d bet was a pull as well.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Thinking about BK’s comments, I believe he’s using revisionist history. He’s heard the unanimous agreement that BK left ND in a better place than he found it. He got them to relevancy but could never get over the hump of winning a big time post season game. So now it’s easy for him to adopt that as his #1 goal at ND. Despite the fact that we all know he, his staff & his players #1 goal was to win a NC at ND

 

[Old Man Mike]

People like to think well of themselves, especially big chunks of their lives. Pretty normal.

To my ear, the media is generally willing to go along with revisionist histories by almost everyone.

 

[T-Boone]

I'd could see him coaching a mid-school again. He had a lot of success pre LSU.

 

[OKCDomer23]

I'd could see him coaching a mid-school again. He had a lot of success pre LSU.

Possibly. I wouldn't consider him at all. He's fat cat rich now swindling LSU. I honestly thought he'd do better at LSU. Never expected him to get a title but thought he was a good nearly great coach not elite. Flaws included ego, lazy recruiter, very fixated in ways, and gross negligence of special teams. I'd be surprised if he coaches again but you never know.

 

[BeatSC]

I would say he was better than Davie, Willingham, Faust, and Weis. Not many wins over USC in that group and frankly a lot of beatdowns received under Weis and Willingham. If he had ever had a truly great QB on several of his teams they might have won it all. He’s never had a championship caliber (or even close) QB. Did pretty well with what he had. Had one really bad Brian fart seasons and a handful of bad losses 6-7 over 11 seasons. He might have ripped off LSU but nobody made out better that old Charlie.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I'd could see him coaching a mid-school again. He had a lot of success pre LSU.

I don't see his ego allowing him to do that, but it would be comical to watch him go back home to Mass and try to bring Boston College back to respectable if they fire Bill O'Brien.

 

[MacIrish75]

Brian Kelly was a very good, but not great or elite coach. His narcissistic tendencies are likely his biggest detractor. I’m grateful for what he did for the program and I’m also grateful his self-image caused him to want to leave.

 

[stlnd01]

I don't see his ego allowing him to do that, but it would be comical to watch him go back home to Mass and try to bring Boston College back to respectable if they fire Bill O'Brien.

The thing is, BC has no resources and no apparent desire to change that, and academic/recruiting challenges that probably exceed Notre Dame's at this point. Almost any other school in the ACC (let alone the Big Ten) is better positioned to succeed. BK has been around long enough to know it's a dead-end job (to the point that their previous head coach quit to become an NFL assistant).

Also, unlike Bill O'Brien who coached for the Patriots and has lots of family around here, BK's ties to Massachusetts are pretty thin at this point. No one in Boston would think of him as a local boy come home, just that asshole who used to coach Notre Dame.

 

[Irish Norseman]

The thing is, BC has no resources and no apparent desire to change that, and academic/recruiting challenges that probably exceed Notre Dame's at this point. Almost any other school in the ACC (let alone the Big Ten) is better positioned to succeed. BK has been around long enough to know it's a dead-end job (to the point that their previous head coach quit to become an NFL assistant).

Also, unlike Bill O'Brien who coached for the Patriots and has lots of family around here, BK's ties to Massachusetts are pretty thin at this point. No one in Boston would think of him as a local boy come home, just that Masshole who used to coach Notre Dame.

FIFY

 

[stlnd01]

FIFY

🖕
- signed, a Masshole

 

[NDPhilly]

Have to think BK was sitting at Lou's funeral this week thinking this is how he could have been remembered. Certainly would eat at me, not sure about him.

 

[IrishLax]

Would be interesting to pick the brain of Denbrock on his decision to leave LSU for ND. Is it because he really likes being at ND that much or did he see the BK ship sinking at LSU? Or both?

Combination of a couple things:
1. Wasn't given due credit for the elite offense he ran, Kelly multiple times in his career scapegoated Denbrock or didn't give him credit. They tried to give away some responsibilities to their QB coach immediately after that Jayden Daniels Heisman season.
2. He took the LSU job more out of career necessity than an affinity for Kelly/LSU. So he had an opportunity for a better long term situation and money, it's just business to take it. He did not have a lot of faith in Kelly being successful at LSU long term, you are correct about that.

 

[IrishLax]

Have to think BK was sitting at Lou's funeral this week thinking this is how he could have been remembered. Certainly would eat at me, not sure about him.

I think he miscalculated badly on Swarbrick calling his bluff when he went to ND for more money, so then his hand was forced to take LSU job for the guaranteed money and secure retirement. So he never considered any of the second order effects. Then he also miscalculated how many ND assistants he would steal from ND, and how ND would fall apart after he left... which is why there has been such a huge narrative pivot from him about "what he was trying to achieve at ND." Perpetual politician.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I think he miscalculated badly on Swarbrick calling his bluff when he went to ND for more money, so then his hand was forced to take LSU job for the guaranteed money and secure retirement. So he never considered any of the second order effects. Then he also miscalculated how many ND assistants he would steal from ND, and how ND would fall apart after he left... which is why there has been such a huge narrative pivot from him about "what he was trying to achieve at ND." Perpetual politician.

I thought the story that was verbalized by both Kelly and Swarbrick was that BK did not even attempt to go to ND to get a raise/longer contract when he got the LSU offer.

I think BK knew what the answer would be so he didn't even attempt it.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Have to think BK was sitting at Lou's funeral this week thinking this is how he could have been remembered. Certainly would eat at me, not sure about him.

Anyone think BK and Freeman caught up at Lou's funeral to chew some bacon together?

 

[Irish#1]

I think he miscalculated badly on Swarbrick calling his bluff when he went to ND for more money, so then his hand was forced to take LSU job for the guaranteed money and secure retirement. So he never considered any of the second order effects. Then he also miscalculated how many ND assistants he would steal from ND, and how ND would fall apart after he left... which is why there has been such a huge narrative pivot from him about "what he was trying to achieve at ND." Perpetual politician.

I thought the story that was verbalized by both Kelly and Swarbrick was that BK did not even attempt to go to ND to get a raise/longer contract when he got the LSU offer.

I think BK knew what the answer would be so he didn't even attempt it.

Regardless, we owe BK a debt of gratitude. Without him we don’t have Marcus.

 

[rikkitikki08]

Regardless, we owe BK a debt of gratitude. Without him we don’t have Marcus.

I don’t disagree with this but the fact that the coach with the most wins in program history legacy is he brought in our current coach speaks wonders about how well BK will remembered

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Regardless, we owe BK a debt of gratitude. Without him we don’t have Marcus.

I'll choose to give the credit to Swarbrick for pushing Kelly to hire non friends.
Not to mention later Swarbrick had the balls(smarts) to trust freeman with the HC position

 

[Irish8248]

I appreciate BK for making sure we don't trip over our feet like the nearly 15 years prior. He stopped the cycle and built a sustainable foundation... After that he can eat a bag of dicks.

 

[IrishLax]

I thought the story that was verbalized by both Kelly and Swarbrick was that BK did not even attempt to go to ND to get a raise/longer contract when he got the LSU offer.

I think BK knew what the answer would be so he didn't even attempt it.

I am 99.9% sure that the order of events was:
1. Kelly went to ND asking for a new contract based on recent success
2. Swarbrick said "no chance, we expect you to keep coaching under your current contract"
3. Kelly got offer from LSU, bounced for the guaranteed money

That is the gist of the timeline, I might be able to search up the old posts to get it more specific/accurate, but Kelly's agent approached ND with the "hey you guys better come up to market rates" well before he got the phone call while eating burnt ends. They were shocked that Swarbrick balked at their request and didn't even want to negotiate given the recent playoff appearances, etc.

 

[KPENN]

I am 99.9% sure that the order of events was:
1. Kelly went to ND asking for a new contract based on recent success
2. Swarbrick said "no chance, we expect you to keep coaching under your current contract"
3. Kelly got offer from LSU, bounced for the guaranteed money

That is the gist of the timeline, I might be able to search up the old posts to get it more specific/accurate, but Kelly's agent approached ND with the "hey you guys better come up to market rates" well before he got the phone call while eating burnt ends. They were shocked that Swarbrick balked at their request and didn't even want to negotiate given the recent playoff appearances, etc.

II had a write up on it after it happened. IIRC BK’s side wanted a raise/extension after the Wisconsin game and that’s when it seems he seriously started to look around. I could be misremember it though

 

[bumpdaddy]

I am 99.9% sure that the order of events was:
1. Kelly went to ND asking for a new contract based on recent success
2. Swarbrick said "no chance, we expect you to keep coaching under your current contract"
3. Kelly got offer from LSU, bounced for the guaranteed money

That is the gist of the timeline, I might be able to search up the old posts to get it more specific/accurate, but Kelly's agent approached ND with the "hey you guys better come up to market rates" well before he got the phone call while eating burnt ends. They were shocked that Swarbrick balked at their request and didn't even want to negotiate given the recent playoff appearances, etc.

Your timeline above is fairly vague. Not sure if you are referring to the year BK left or prior, but BK had just signed his extension 1 year prior to leaving for LSU, so it wouldn't have made much sense for BK to ask for yet another new contract a year later.

And Swarbrick flat-out said BK did not tell him LSU was pursuing him. This article goes over Swarbrick's side of events. Here's the pertinent paragraph.

According to Swarbrick, Kelly did not discuss the conversations he was having with LSU about taking the job. There was no opportunity for Swarbrick to make a counter or convince Kelly to stay.​

Swarbrick makes clear in the article that he sensed something was going on, but BK never came to him to talk about it.

Also, after BK's flirtation with the NFL after the 2012 season, Swarbrick and BK came to an understanding that if BK ever pursued another job behind Swarbrick's back, BK had better take it because he would no longer have a job at ND. BK often referenced this agreement over the following years any time his name was rumored for a coaching vacancy, just to show that he wasn't a serious candidate, because if he was, Swarbrick would have already fired him.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Your timeline above is fairly vague. Not sure if you are referring to the year BK left or prior, but BK had just signed his extension 1 year prior to leaving for LSU, so it wouldn't have made much sense for BK to ask for yet another new contract a year later.

And Swarbrick flat-out said BK did not tell him LSU was pursuing him. This article goes over Swarbrick's side of events. Here's the pertinent paragraph.

According to Swarbrick, Kelly did not discuss the conversations he was having with LSU about taking the job. There was no opportunity for Swarbrick to make a counter or convince Kelly to stay.​

Swarbrick makes clear in the article that he sensed something was going on, but BK never came to him to talk about it.

Also, after BK's flirtation with the NFL after the 2012 season, Swarbrick and BK came to an understanding that if BK ever pursued another job behind Swarbrick's back, BK had better take it because he would no longer have a job at ND. BK often referenced this agreement over the following years any time his name was rumored for a coaching vacancy, just to show that he wasn't a serious candidate, because if he was, Swarbrick would have already fired him.

Linked article takes me to …. Page Not Found

 

[bumpdaddy]

Linked article takes me to …. Page Not Found

Not sure what happened, but try it now.

 

[IrishLion]

Your timeline above is fairly vague. Not sure if you are referring to the year BK left or prior, but BK had just signed his extension 1 year prior to leaving for LSU, so it wouldn't have made much sense for BK to ask for yet another new contract a year later.

And Swarbrick flat-out said BK did not tell him LSU was pursuing him. This article goes over Swarbrick's side of events. Here's the pertinent paragraph.

According to Swarbrick, Kelly did not discuss the conversations he was having with LSU about taking the job. There was no opportunity for Swarbrick to make a counter or convince Kelly to stay.​

Swarbrick makes clear in the article that he sensed something was going on, but BK never came to him to talk about it.

Also, after BK's flirtation with the NFL after the 2012 season, Swarbrick and BK came to an understanding that if BK ever pursued another job behind Swarbrick's back, BK had better take it because he would no longer have a job at ND. BK often referenced this agreement over the following years any time his name was rumored for a coaching vacancy, just to show that he wasn't a serious candidate, because if he was, Swarbrick would have already fired him.

Both things can be true…

BK and his agent were pushing for a raise, weren’t getting it, and so they jumped on the LSU offer.

At the same time, it can be true that after getting no love on the raise, BK truly didn’t give ND a chance to counter because he simply didn’t give JS a chance to keep him by calling and asking once more for a raise at that point.

 

[bumpdaddy]

Both things can be true…

BK and his agent were pushing for a raise, weren’t getting it, and so they jumped on the LSU offer.

At the same time, it can be true that after getting no love on the raise, BK truly didn’t give ND a chance to counter because he simply didn’t give JS a chance to keep him by calling and asking once more for a raise at that point.

Sort of, but not really.

Here's another article by John Brice. It makes clear that BK did not ask for a raise. Here's the key statement from the article:

Kelly and others close to him emphasized that he had not had his representatives ask for any salary increase from Notre Dame and Swarbrick.​

​

So he wasn't outright looking for a raise. However, the next paragraph says he was likely looking for an extension to the contract he had signed just one year prior. His people also indicated BK wanted to upgrade ND football's nutrition program and hire a dedicated person to oversee that program. Swarbrick acknowledged this was true and made clear that he had agreed to all of BK's demands with only a minor quibble on the timeline.

All of this happened within the last few weeks of the 2021 season. So, although BK said he wanted improvements, in my opinion, the urgency of his demands leading up to his LSU announcement was manufactured to make BK look better. Here's what Brice says in his article:

​

A combative urgency from Kelly’s camp had replaced what appeared initially to be a friendly, are-we-on-the-same-page-here-? dialogue.​

“And if you look at what was being asked for,” said a Notre Dame source, “we were pretty much in agreement on everything. There was nothing that Jack said no to.”​

So it looked like BK's camp was saying there was a sudden urgency, even though Swarbrick and ND had already agreed to everything he wanted.

Ultimately, this is what I think happened. BK always had one foot out the door, but he was willing to stay at ND as long as he had no better options. So he kept his eyes and ears open while also trying to appear to be happy where he was and wasn't looking to leave. Over the several prior years, there were rumors that his agent often floated BK's name during big-time coaching searches, and in hindsight, it's likely those rumors were true, and that it wasn't just a ploy to get ND to pay BK more money - BK really was looking for greener pastures.

I guess my main gripe with the notion that BK left ND mainly because he wanted more money is that I don't think that's true. ND says he didn't ask for more money (but probably wanted a longer contract), but I contend, even if he had been up front with ND and ND matched LSU's offer, BK still would have preferred to go to LSU.

I guess we'll never know for sure, but I think most of the evidence points that way.

 

[ND87]

Sort of, but not really.

Here's another article by John Brice. It makes clear that BK did not ask for a raise. Here's the key statement from the article:

Kelly and others close to him emphasized that he had not had his representatives ask for any salary increase from Notre Dame and Swarbrick.​

​

So he wasn't outright looking for a raise. However, the next paragraph says he was likely looking for an extension to the contract he had signed just one year prior. His people also indicated BK wanted to upgrade ND football's nutrition program and hire a dedicated person to oversee that program. Swarbrick acknowledged this was true and made clear that he had agreed to all of BK's demands with only a minor quibble on the timeline.

All of this happened within the last few weeks of the 2021 season. So, although BK said he wanted improvements, in my opinion, the urgency of his demands leading up to his LSU announcement was manufactured to make BK look better. Here's what Brice says in his article:

​

A combative urgency from Kelly’s camp had replaced what appeared initially to be a friendly, are-we-on-the-same-page-here-? dialogue.​

“And if you look at what was being asked for,” said a Notre Dame source, “we were pretty much in agreement on everything. There was nothing that Jack said no to.”​

So it looked like BK's camp was saying there was a sudden urgency, even though Swarbrick and ND had already agreed to everything he wanted.

Ultimately, this is what I think happened. BK always had one foot out the door, but he was willing to stay at ND as long as he had no better options. So he kept his eyes and ears open while also trying to appear to be happy where he was and wasn't looking to leave. Over the several prior years, there were rumors that his agent often floated BK's name during big-time coaching searches, and in hindsight, it's likely those rumors were true, and that it wasn't just a ploy to get ND to pay BK more money - BK really was looking for greener pastures.

I guess my main gripe with the notion that BK left ND mainly because he wanted more money is that I don't think that's true. ND says he didn't ask for more money (but probably wanted a longer contract), but I contend, even if he had been up front with ND and ND matched LSU's offer, BK still would have preferred to go to LSU.

I guess we'll never know for sure, but I think most of the evidence points that way.

I always thought he explicitly stated a 100Million offer, but I guess he set his sights higher:
"Unless that fairy godmother comes by with that $250M check, my wife would want to take a look at it first. I'd have to run it by her."

 

[Notre Dame Joe]

I don’t disagree with this but the fact that the coach with the most wins in program history legacy is he brought in our current coach speaks wonders about how well BK will remembered

Well, no one broadcasts they guy with the most losses in school history.

Your timeline above is fairly vague. Not sure if you are referring to the year BK left or prior, but BK had just signed his extension 1 year prior to leaving for LSU, so it wouldn't have made much sense for BK to ask for yet another new contract a year later.

And Swarbrick flat-out said BK did not tell him LSU was pursuing him. This article goes over Swarbrick's side of events. Here's the pertinent paragraph.

According to Swarbrick, Kelly did not discuss the conversations he was having with LSU about taking the job. There was no opportunity for Swarbrick to make a counter or convince Kelly to stay.​

Swarbrick makes clear in the article that he sensed something was going on, but BK never came to him to talk about it.

Also, after BK's flirtation with the NFL after the 2012 season, Swarbrick and BK came to an understanding that if BK ever pursued another job behind Swarbrick's back, BK had better take it because he would no longer have a job at ND. BK often referenced this agreement over the following years any time his name was rumored for a coaching vacancy, just to show that he wasn't a serious candidate, because if he was, Swarbrick would have already fired him.

Both things can be true…

BK and his agent were pushing for a raise, weren’t getting it, and so they jumped on the LSU offer.

At the same time, it can be true that after getting no love on the raise, BK truly didn’t give ND a chance to counter because he simply didn’t give JS a chance to keep him by calling and asking once more for a raise at that point.

The two are probably unconnected.

 

[IrishLax]

Your timeline above is fairly vague. Not sure if you are referring to the year BK left or prior, but BK had just signed his extension 1 year prior to leaving for LSU, so it wouldn't have made much sense for BK to ask for yet another new contract a year later.

And Swarbrick flat-out said BK did not tell him LSU was pursuing him. This article goes over Swarbrick's side of events. Here's the pertinent paragraph.

According to Swarbrick, Kelly did not discuss the conversations he was having with LSU about taking the job. There was no opportunity for Swarbrick to make a counter or convince Kelly to stay.​

Swarbrick makes clear in the article that he sensed something was going on, but BK never came to him to talk about it.

This is 5 years old, my memory is not that good, but my recollection is that they absolutely did go ask for modifications to his contract during or immediately after that season. Swarbrick shut it down completely and said absolutely not, we're not negotiating on this, we expect you to keep coaching under the deal you signed. Which yeah, absolutely makes sense considering they had just done that song and dance a year ago, why would you entertain that again?

Your links and information have me strongly questioning my "99.9%" claim but that's what I remember... I remember someone telling me that his agent had asked for more money / more guarantee at some point that year and Swarbrick refused to play ball. And what he ultimately signed at LSU was nowhere close to what ND was willing to offer him under any circumstance, so it was a moot point on ND keeping him if that was what somewhere else was willing to offer him.

Also, after BK's flirtation with the NFL after the 2012 season, Swarbrick and BK came to an understanding that if BK ever pursued another job behind Swarbrick's back, BK had better take it because he would no longer have a job at ND. BK often referenced this agreement over the following years any time his name was rumored for a coaching vacancy, just to show that he wasn't a serious candidate, because if he was, Swarbrick would have already fired him.

Yeah this is true. But also, agents operate in a gray area, and the whole point of having representation is that they can call your employer. Like there is always the threat of you leaving, that's where the leverage comes from. They say stuff like "hey I've gotten some calls, we aren't entertaining these overtures right now, but we need to talk about compensation because we're below the market rate for my client." Kelly renegotiated deals multiple times over his tenure at ND -- for both positives and negatives -- and the last deal he signed I think Swarbrick intended it to be the last one he ever did with Kelly.