Marcus Freeman Revisited

NorthDakota

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BrianWalsh said:
I think that Marcus Freeman is a good coach with great potential. Yes, that is a crazy thing to say about a guy whose team played in the National Championship game last season. But let’s be honest: if this season unfolds the way it is shaping up—losses to Arkansas, NC State and USC all seem possible—that is three out four of Freeman’s seasons being disappointing. 2022 was rough with the losses to USC, Marshall and Stanford were bad. 2023 the losses in a winnable game against OSU was not bad but it was at home and not great, loss to Louisville was brutal and the loss to a mediocre Clemson squad was bad. Last year was NIU but who cares—they ran to the NC. But this year they lost two games they should not have lost and, again, there are three more possible, not to taken as me saying probable, losses on the table.

Would anybody else grade out 2022 9-4, 2023 10-3, 2024 14-2 and 2025 11-1 (preseason)/11-3 (best case IMO is win out and win one playoff game)/7-5 (worst case and assuming in this era that they decline if they qualify for the Poop Bowl as so many players would opt out). Those are not great results. And the one thing that seemed like it could be a crutch—a freshman QB making some mistakes—is not the problem right now (though who knows if the offense has a down game against a lesser team and incurs a classic post-Holtz ND stinker loss).
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I will cut him some slack because there is absolutely a learning curve to head coaching, especially at such a young age, at Notre Dame, oh and its NIL era now. But this team needs to get shit sorted ASAP. This year was very unlikely to be a championship type team under great circumstances. But need to step up now.
 
The Backer

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BrianWalsh said:
I think that Marcus Freeman is a good coach with great potential. Yes, that is a crazy thing to say about a guy whose team played in the National Championship game last season. But let’s be honest: if this season unfolds the way it is shaping up—losses to Arkansas, NC State and USC all seem possible—that is three out four of Freeman’s seasons being disappointing. 2022 was rough with the losses to USC, Marshall and Stanford were bad. 2023 the losses in a winnable game against OSU was not bad but it was at home and not great, loss to Louisville was brutal and the loss to a mediocre Clemson squad was bad. Last year was NIU but who cares—they ran to the NC. But this year they lost two games they should not have lost and, again, there are three more possible, not to taken as me saying probable, losses on the table.

Would anybody else grade out 2022 9-4, 2023 10-3, 2024 14-2 and 2025 11-1 (preseason)/11-3 (best case IMO is win out and win one playoff game)/7-5 (worst case and assuming in this era that they decline if they qualify for the Poop Bowl as so many players would opt out). Those are not great results. And the one thing that seemed like it could be a crutch—a freshman QB making some mistakes—is not the problem right now (though who knows if the offense has a down game against a lesser team and incurs a classic post-Holtz ND stinker loss).
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He's very much a rorschach test, but I haven't seen anything from Freeman that rules out that he can be a national title winning coach. We're all sort of pre-programmed to believe that the great coaches win big immediate. In fairness to us, that's because every title winner at ND did so by year 3. Then you have that whole cohort of Meyer, Stoops, Saban, Carroll that won within a couple years. However, that's been a milestone occurring deeper in tenures lately. Dabo did it in his 8th year, Kirby Smart and Ryan Day took 6, while Harbaugh took 9. I think Freeman compares fairly well with the early tenures for those coaches.

On top of it, I'm not a believer in ND's talent level. I don't think the current roster is "loaded" like I see posted here so often. It's been good, but we don't have the space mutants like an OSU or peak Alabama or Georgia. That being said, I do like the 25 and 26 classes which seem like huge lifts in the talent department.
 
Jiggafini19Deux

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The Backer said:
He's very much a rorschach test, but I haven't seen anything from Freeman that rules out that he can be a national title winning coach. We're all sort of pre-programmed to believe that the great coaches win big immediate. In fairness to us, that's because every title winner at ND did so by year 3. Then you have that whole cohort of Meyer, Stoops, Saban, Carroll that won within a couple years. However, that's been a milestone occurring deeper in tenures lately. Dabo did it in his 8th year, Kirby Smart and Ryan Day took 6, while Harbaugh took 9. I think Freeman compares fairly well with the early tenures for those coaches.

On top of it, I'm not a believer in ND's talent level. I don't think the current roster is "loaded" like I see posted here so often. It's been good, but we don't have the space mutants like an OSU or peak Alabama or Georgia. That being said, I do like the 25 and 26 classes which seem like huge lifts in the talent department.
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This is a great point.

Something that these athletic administrations should consider. Give a guy time if he keeps winning and gets some bites at the apple.
 
IRISHDODGER

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Had ND won either of the 1st two games, MF would lead the nation in most wins vs ranked teams. On the flip side, I believe he has the most losses as a heavy favorite. Overall, still glad he’s ND’s HC.

The only trend I’ve seen from him in year four, is that his team really struggles in September. I’m sure he’s well aware & working on reversing that trend but it’s been a head scratcher.
 
FightingIrishLover7

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IRISHDODGER said:
Had ND won either of the 1st two games, MF would lead the nation in most wins vs ranked teams. On the flip side, I believe he has the most losses as a heavy favorite. Overall, still glad he’s ND’s HC.

The only trend I’ve seen from him in year four, is that his team really struggles in September. I’m sure he’s well aware & working on reversing that trend but it’s been a head scratcher.
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Similar vibes as the Holtz - wins a lot of big games, but then loses some he shouldn't
 
IRISHDODGER

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FightingIrishLover7 said:
Similar vibes as the Holtz - wins a lot of big games, but then loses some he shouldn't
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I don’t think he really started losing games he shouldn’t have until after ND won a NC in ‘88. Remember, he had to rebuild the program that he inherited from Faust. Luckily for him, ND still recruited itself & Holtz took it from there. It wasn’t until the 90s, where Holtz would have a team that just lost a game fans never saw coming.
 
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IrishTusker said:
That's great, just name the alternative.
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I would say that is fair but I am not calling for him to be fired. Period. The man led the team to the NC game last season and is a damn good man. Just saying that there have been some bad losses and slow starts that I worry about him addressing. As a former colleague would say “once is an honest mistake, twice is a pattern, third time is a habit, fourth time and you’ve told me who you are”.
 
BeatSC

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Well MF has openly stated he will be playing a more active role in the coaching of the D. Thank God for that. He wasn’t as good as Golden but better than Ass and no doubt hated what he was seeing happen. Glad he is taking over. At least I hope that’s what he is doing. Just go ahead and can Ash and keep an eye on Mickens and move forward.
 
stlnd01

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IrishWayDomer said:
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Does he mean Gerard Parker? What would have been the point in benching Hartman?

Regardless, at this point I think it's fine to demote Ash (or fire him if need be) and give either Mickens or Washington a trial run for the rest of the season. I agree the players aren't playing well enough, but it's a lot of the same guys as last year and they look slower and more tentative, which I chalk up largely to scheme.
I get the counter-argument that it makes it tougher to hire if you have a quick trigger finger, but it's not like Ash was some prize hire wooed from another big job. We basically picked him up off the clearance rack. Easy come, easy go.
 
Terry Jillery

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Is it just me, or does it seem like the seasons we’re actually good are the ones where we don’t have a roster stacked with offensive stars? Going back to the early 90’s, the years we’ve been at our best usually came when we had fewer flashy players. And it always feels like when we do have an offense loaded with talent, the defense falls apart or when the defense is elite, the offense is atrocious. We nearly beat Ohio State with our now third-string quarterback who even struggles on extra points. Now we’ve got great wide receivers, the best running backs in the country, and a future first-round quarterback… yet we let Purdue hang 30 on us and we’re sitting at 1-2. It’s like we can never get both sides of the ball clicking at the same time.

History shows this doesn’t end well for Ash. If Freeman is wise, he makes a change now while it’s still early in the season. If we can somehow run the table and the defense grows under someone truly worthy of the position, then with how good this offense is, we’ve got a legitimate shot at winning the whole damn thing. If we sneak into the playoffs with a substantially improved defense, anything is possible.

Unless he truly believes he’s better off with Ash, if I’m Freeman, I don’t wait for another loss to act. I take over the defense fully today, demote Ash to the booth, and lean on Seider to help with head coaching duties.
 
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greyhammer90

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Dale said:


Worth watching instead of just reading
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I'm not a blind Freeman lover by any stretch, and at times I've been really concerned about him being the right guy but his postgame press conference reminded me of why I always come around to thinking he's going to continue to be successful. He has a (probably mentally unhealthy) competitive streak that I think honestly dwarfs a lot of other head coaches.

Not to be the stereotypical ND fan who makes everything about comparing him with BK, but listen to him talk about ND's play after a winning effort against Purdue and compare that with BK after LSU beat the Gators. It's night and day. Or hell, think about this versus Dabo's sort of defiant "I know better" attitude he's taken to lately. Freeman's a lot younger, so maybe that stubbornness/arrogance will come with age but I hope it doesn't. He sounds like a coach who just watched his defense give up 21 points in a half to Purdue and he knows that it's unacceptable and that the rest of the game really doesnt matter.
 
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ulukinatme

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greyhammer90 said:
I'm not a blind Freeman lover by any stretch, and at times I've been really concerned about him being the right guy but this press conference reminded me of why I always come around to thinking he's going to continue to be successful. He has a (probably mentally unhealthy) competitive streak that I think honestly dwarfs a lot of other head coaches. Not to be the stereotypical ND fan who makes everything about comparing him with BK, but listen to him talk about ND's play after this winning effort and compare that with BK after LSU beat the Gators. It's night and day. Or hell, think about this versus Dabo sort of defiant "I know better" attitude he's taken to lately. Freeman's a lot younger, so maybe that stubbornness/arrogance will come with age but I hope it doesn't. He sounds like a coach who just watched his defense give up 21 points in a half to Purdue and he knows that it's unacceptable and that the rest of the game really doesnt matter.
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Most of ND's really successful coaches ended up retiring due to the stress of the job tanking their health, or they died. I hope Freeman doesn't burn out, but I think he understands what ND is about and I think he's got that competitive edge like you said. It worries me a bit because it seems like he's doing the coaching, and working hard in recruiting, and doing all the publicity stuff and events, and supporting other campus sports by attending games, etc. Makes me wonder how he even has time for family.
 
Bane

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greyhammer90 said:
I'm not a blind Freeman lover by any stretch, and at times I've been really concerned about him being the right guy but his postgame press conference reminded me of why I always come around to thinking he's going to continue to be successful. He has a (probably mentally unhealthy) competitive streak that I think honestly dwarfs a lot of other head coaches.

Not to be the stereotypical ND fan who makes everything about comparing him with BK, but listen to him talk about ND's play after a winning effort against Purdue and compare that with BK after LSU beat the Gators. It's night and day. Or hell, think about this versus Dabo's sort of defiant "I know better" attitude he's taken to lately. Freeman's a lot younger, so maybe that stubbornness/arrogance will come with age but I hope it doesn't. He sounds like a coach who just watched his defense give up 21 points in a half to Purdue and he knows that it's unacceptable and that the rest of the game really doesnt matter.
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He has seemed weirdly passive this season. Seems like he's snapped out of it.
 
SportsingHard

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ulukinatme said:
Most of ND's really successful coaches ended up retiring due to the stress of the job tanking their health, or they died. I hope Freeman doesn't burn out, but I think he understands what ND is about and I think he's got that competitive edge like you said. It worries me a bit because it seems like he's doing the coaching, and working hard in recruiting, and doing all the publicity stuff and events, and supporting other campus sports by attending games, etc. Makes me wonder how he even has time for family.
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I think Freeman will be okay, but not due to a competitive edge. Those are exactly the guys who do burn out. See Michael Jordan and Urban Meyer, each with three retirements. What can help a coach surrounded by unrealistic fans and media is a sense of perspective, an inherent sense of self-worth, and a moderate regard for what other people think. Freeman seems to have those. In fact, they seem to be defining characteristics.
 
Dale

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Anyone else not understand the beat’s reaction to Freeman’s presser?

Seen Driskell and ISD both pissing their pants about it. Like they expected some pound of flesh martyrdom from Freeman today?
 
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