Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[SeekNDestroy]

There have always been borderline cases, always, going back to the Prop 48 days of Chris Zorich and Tony Rice. Hell, going back to the Gipper. (And certainly going back to, say, Tee Shepherd and Aaron Lynch in the early BK years).

I think what SeekNDestroy said is basically correct, that they assess whether a recruit can graduate from Notre Dame, and decide from there. It’s probably as much an assessment of a recruit’s character and life goals as it is their academics, beyond a certain base line anyway. Given the academic support Notre Dame offers, if a kid wants to get his degree they can help most of them make it happen (and I don’t mean by cheating!) But they have to want to.

If anything, making that assessment may have gotten easier in the NIL era since the kids who don’t want to “play school” to begin with really don’t have to any more. We can go get the ones who do.

I just wanted to chime back in to say Chris Zorich was NOT a Prop 48 but was almost assuredly someone that Holtz was given leeway to recruit.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I've read and heard (from no real "authoritative" source I might add....) that ND has loosened its academic restrictions under Freeman. I've heard some of the guys Freeman and the staff are recruiting and/or bringing aren't ones that would be deemed "scholars." Any truth in that? Regardless, even if true, I'm sure the requirements and standards and more demanding than 9/10 other schools (i.e., no online courses, no "made up" courses à la UNC).

With all the ND grads on this board I'd think we would have heard about relaxation of NDs standards regarding "under Freeman". I am not aware of anyone saying that. That being said, I think there is some leeway given to athletes and assessments on whether they can graduate. Kelly had his fair share of marginal recruits like Will Mahone, Greg Bryant, etc. but Im not sure there was a global relaxations of standards relative to the normal student base.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Dream scenario is Freeman gets one at ND for the first time since Holtz and Kelly leaves as the first guy at LSU since DiNardo not to get one.

Really would signal a changing of an era in the sport on a few different levels.

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

As a person who doesnt really like golf at all, I feel like those who like golf have given up on life and just want to be left alone to wallow in their own self pity and are in search for some semblance of cathartic release that they purposefully punish themselves while spending abhorent amounts of money they worked really hard to obtain.

It’s nice to walk outside with your friends

 

[IrishLax]

I've read and heard (from no real "authoritative" source I might add....) that ND has loosened its academic restrictions under Freeman. I've heard some of the guys Freeman and the staff are recruiting and/or bringing aren't ones that would be deemed "scholars." Any truth in that? Regardless, even if true, I'm sure the requirements and standards and more demanding than 9/10 other schools (i.e., no online courses, no "made up" courses à la UNC).

This is mostly cope because Kelly always made tons of excuses about academics. And to be fair admissions absolutely handcuffed him with some of his earlier recruiting classes and a lot of those "speedbumbs" (like the infamous foreign language classes) aren't really a thing anymore.

The bottom line though is that in the NIL era Freeman just doesn't have to deal with the same shit that Kelly did with late defections due to illicit pay-for-play or other nonsense. There is no Eddie Vanderdoes "sick grandma" nonsense. Freeman did have to deal with this in his first classes when the rules weren't clear and you had schools like Oregon promising Peyton Bowen a gazillion dollars while ND was like "uhhh we'll help you get endorsements when you get here?"

So Freeman is doing well because 1) people want to play for him 2) ND recruits itself when you have something good to sell 3) ND can pay people on par with "peer" schools... it really has zero to do with any sort of relaxed academic standards. There hasn't been a noticeable change in that department since the end of the Kelly tenure. I can't really think of anyone in this class who wouldn't have qualified under Kelly.

 

[NorthDakota]

It’s nice to walk outside with your friends

Touching grass and playing games is underrated.

 

[irishnd31]

It’s nice to walk outside with your friends

…. And fire up 2 beers a hole, piss on a tree trunk, and fart in your best friends back swing.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

This is mostly cope because Kelly always made tons of excuses about academics. And to be fair admissions absolutely handcuffed him with some of his earlier recruiting classes and a lot of those "speedbumbs" (like the infamous foreign language classes) aren't really a thing anymore.

The bottom line though is that in the NIL era Freeman just doesn't have to deal with the same shit that Kelly did with late defections due to illicit pay-for-play or other nonsense. There is no Eddie Vanderdoes "sick grandma" nonsense. Freeman did have to deal with this in his first classes when the rules weren't clear and you had schools like Oregon promising Peyton Bowen a gazillion dollars while ND was like "uhhh we'll help you get endorsements when you get here?"

So Freeman is doing well because 1) people want to play for him 2) ND recruits itself when you have something good to sell 3) ND can pay people on par with "peer" schools... it really has zero to do with any sort of relaxed academic standards. There hasn't been a noticeable change in that department since the end of the Kelly tenure. I can't really think of anyone in this class who wouldn't have qualified under Kelly.

What happens when everyone can pay players? Look at the last 2+ years and see what happens over the next 5.

Then compare it to the preceding 15.

There are rules and some people will always find a way around them but the field has been leveled in terms of talent acquisition. It also helps to have a young, energetic, intelligent, hard-working, adaptable head coach who resonates with the players and their families. It's hard to imagine a better head man and ambassador for the school. I just hope he can continue honing his craft at Notre Dame.

 

[SeekNDestroy]

To add on to this: one of my friends was roommates with Kevin Stepherson. I met Stepherson one time….. and he was as dumb as a brick.

So I don’t really think the standards have changed that much if an idiot like Stepherson got into ND.

But did he PIIHB?

 

[ShroudedInMystery]

10 years ago the player profiles on ND's website gave the older players' majors, and it was a fairly diverse mix. They don't do this anymore which I think is a bad sign. It seems like they're increasingly in a handful of easier majors, particularly Film, Television and Theater. Hopefully still more rigorous than joke majors at other schools but not what I'd like to see.

I was at ND for the Weis era and there were certainly football players who were dumb as bricks. I knew a basketball player who had somebody take his SAT for him. I also heard an ND professor rant about what a joke it was during the early Kelly era.

 

[Huntr]

Christina Stephens 🐯✨ (@christinastephens.bsky.social)

There is an AI page on Facebook that is currently churning out content of Brian Kelly and LSU football players rescuing people in the North Texas floods. Was the internet a mistake?

bsky.app

 

[ozzman]

10 years ago the player profiles on ND's website gave the older players' majors, and it was a fairly diverse mix. They don't do this anymore which I think is a bad sign. It seems like they're increasingly in a handful of easier majors, particularly Film, Television and Theater. Hopefully still more rigorous than joke majors at other schools but not what I'd like to see.

I was at ND for the Weis era and there were certainly football players who were dumb as bricks. I knew a basketball player who had somebody take his SAT for him. I also heard an ND professor rant about what a joke it was during the early Kelly era.

I remember talking to Hunter Smith and Jarious Jackson back in the day and they asked me about my SAT score. They both acknowledged that their scores were closer to Freeman's ACT score than to the regular ND student.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

This is mostly cope because Kelly always made tons of excuses about academics. And to be fair admissions absolutely handcuffed him with some of his earlier recruiting classes and a lot of those "speedbumbs" (like the infamous foreign language classes) aren't really a thing anymore.

The bottom line though is that in the NIL era Freeman just doesn't have to deal with the same shit that Kelly did with late defections due to illicit pay-for-play or other nonsense. There is no Eddie Vanderdoes "sick grandma" nonsense. Freeman did have to deal with this in his first classes when the rules weren't clear and you had schools like Oregon promising Peyton Bowen a gazillion dollars while ND was like "uhhh we'll help you get endorsements when you get here?"

So Freeman is doing well because 1) people want to play for him 2) ND recruits itself when you have something good to sell 3) ND can pay people on par with "peer" schools... it really has zero to do with any sort of relaxed academic standards. There hasn't been a noticeable change in that department since the end of the Kelly tenure. I can't really think of anyone in this class who wouldn't have qualified under Kelly.

I imagine that self-reporting and the lessons learned during the Frozen Five has naturally worked its way out in the Compliance department.

 

[NDRock]

I remember talking to Hunter Smith and Jarious Jackson back in the day and they asked me about my SAT score. They both acknowledged that their scores were closer to Freeman's ACT score than to the regular ND student.

My son has been looking at Dartmouth for football and when they first came by the school he had taken the ACT once and had a 25 and they said that was good enough. I was kind of surprised as I thought he would have to be near 30 for the Ivies. I assume ND is closer to 21 or so.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

This is mostly cope because Kelly always made tons of excuses about academics. And to be fair admissions absolutely handcuffed him with some of his earlier recruiting classes and a lot of those "speedbumbs" (like the infamous foreign language classes) aren't really a thing anymore.

The bottom line though is that in the NIL era Freeman just doesn't have to deal with the same shit that Kelly did with late defections due to illicit pay-for-play or other nonsense. There is no Eddie Vanderdoes "sick grandma" nonsense. Freeman did have to deal with this in his first classes when the rules weren't clear and you had schools like Oregon promising Peyton Bowen a gazillion dollars while ND was like "uhhh we'll help you get endorsements when you get here?"

So Freeman is doing well because 1) people want to play for him 2) ND recruits itself when you have something good to sell 3) ND can pay people on par with "peer" schools... it really has zero to do with any sort of relaxed academic standards. There hasn't been a noticeable change in that department since the end of the Kelly tenure. I can't really think of anyone in this class who wouldn't have qualified under Kelly.

Remember when Freeman was talking about how at ND “kids actually had to attend class”? It was before the OSU game IIRC & OSU took offense but they didn’t understand the context. What MF was saying is that the majority of schools (I suspect every SEC school…w/ the exception of Vandy) allow their players to do all their classes virtually. MF was saying his kids actually have to roll their asses out of bed & physically attend class. You would think that’s not a big ask but allowing kids to attend virtually is an excellent loophole for allowing the majority of scholar-athletes to just log in and go back to sleep.

 

[NDRock]

Remember when Freeman was talking about how at ND “kids actually had to attend class”? It was before the OSU game IIRC & OSU took offense but they didn’t understand the context. What MF was saying is that the majority of schools (I suspect every SEC school…w/ the exception of Vandy) allow their players to do all their classes virtually. MF was saying his kids actually have to roll their asses out of bed & physically attend class. You would think that’s not a big ask but allowing kids to attend virtually is an excellent loophole for allowing the majority of "tutors" to just log in and do their work.

Fixed it.

 

[ulukinatme]

10 years ago the player profiles on ND's website gave the older players' majors, and it was a fairly diverse mix. They don't do this anymore which I think is a bad sign. It seems like they're increasingly in a handful of easier majors, particularly Film, Television and Theater. Hopefully still more rigorous than joke majors at other schools but not what I'd like to see.

I was at ND for the Weis era and there were certainly football players who were dumb as bricks. I knew a basketball player who had somebody take his SAT for him. I also heard an ND professor rant about what a joke it was during the early Kelly era.

I remember reading in the programs during the Weis years, going through the roster and reading majors. Back then I was like "Wow...ton of Finance, Management, Econ guys..." I haven't kept up, but we definitely had a strong showing from the prestigious business school.

 

[NorthDakota]

Remember when Freeman was talking about how at ND “kids actually had to attend class”? It was before the OSU game IIRC & OSU took offense but they didn’t understand the context. What MF was saying is that the majority of schools (I suspect every SEC school…w/ the exception of Vandy) allow their players to do all their classes virtually. MF was saying his kids actually have to roll their asses out of bed & physically attend class. You would think that’s not a big ask but allowing kids to attend virtually is an excellent loophole for allowing the majority of scholar-athletes to just log in and go back to sleep.

Covid hit during my second semester of law school. So I did 2.5 semesters via zoom. I'm sure professors have tried to make the experience more akin to in-person, but online education is simply not as good as being there in person. Tech difficulties (real and imagined) take away about 5-10% of class time. And yes, a lot of students just logged in and went back to bed.

 

[fightingirish595]

I actually think less of Kelly now than when he left. I thought he could win at a place like LSU. I think I was wrong and I’m not mad about it all

 

[NDpendent]

I actually think less of Kelly now than when he left. I thought he could win at a place like LSU. I think I was wrong and I’m not mad about it all

My dislike started all the way back to when he was a coach at GVSU, my cousin was the kicker so I went to a bunch of games. It was clear he was an asshole back then. Always threw players under the bus and took complete credit for success

 

[forkbeard3777]

I actually think less of Kelly now than when he left. I thought he could win at a place like LSU. I think I was wrong and I’m not mad about it all

This is kind of the year for him. On paper, I think we should be very, very good…the schedule is a bitch and I don’t trust Kelly, but for some reason, I’m optimistic with the talent on this team.

If he can’t get it together and make a run this year, he never will.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

My dislike started all the way back to when he was a coach at GVSU, my cousin was the kicker so I went to a bunch of games. It was clear he was an asshole back then. Always threw players under the bus and took complete credit for success

Not long after he was hired by ND, I was at a wedding in Chicago and bumped into a former player of his from GVSU days. The crystal ball he shared never proved so true. "Good coach, total prick. Will build a program. Unlikely to reach the pinnacle....because he's a total prick." Said players respected him, but he's not a player's coach so "getting up" for a guy like that wasn't easy. Fast forward and my only regret is not asking that kid for the Power Ball numbers.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Not long after he was hired by ND, I was at a wedding in Chicago and bumped into a former player of his from GVSU days. The crystal ball he shared never proved so true. "Good coach, total prick. Will build a program. Unlikely to reach the pinnacle....because he's a total prick." Said players respected him, but he's not a player's coach so "getting up" for a guy like that wasn't easy. Fast forward and my only regret is not asking that kid for the Power Ball numbers.

Had a high school friend who married a guy who played for Chip Kelly at UNH, and had nearly identical things to say about CK (must be the last name).

Basically - you're going to win a ton of games if you play for him, and that's fun, but he's not good enough to get to the very top and he's a complete, insufferable POS.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

This is kind of the year for him. On paper, I think we should be very, very good…the schedule is a bitch and I don’t trust Kelly, but for some reason, I’m optimistic with the talent on this team.

If he can’t get it together and make a run this year, he never will.

You will be 9-3 with some head scratching losses

 

[Old Man Mike]

Kelly has to play Clemson, Ole Miss, Alabama, and Oklahoma AWAY ... ouch. 9-3 wouldn't be too much of a head scratcher there. If he makes the playoffs, he's probably still OK with the fans, particularly if he wins one.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

You will be 9-3 with some head scratching losses

10-4
10-3
9-4

Sounds about right.

He's 3-0 in bowl games so far.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Kelly has to play Clemson, Ole Miss, Alabama, and Oklahoma AWAY ... ouch. 9-3 wouldn't be too much of a head scratcher there. If he makes the playoffs, he's probably still OK with the fans, particularly if he wins one.

Not that he will simply lose to those teams but the manner in which they lose will be head scratchers.

 

[Old Man Mike]

OK. I'll buy into that possibility.

 

[pumpdog20]

10-4
10-3
9-4

Sounds about right.

He's 3-0 in bowl games so far.

Wins over Purdue, Wisconsin, and Baylor in those bowl games. Sweet.

 

[forkbeard3777]

You will be 9-3 with some head scratching losses

@ Clemson
Florida
@ Ole Miss
South Carolina
@ Vanderbilt
Texas A&M
@ Alabama
Arkansas
@ Oklahoma

Shit. I’ll take 9-3. I’d be pretty thrilled with a 10-2 record. That said, despite Kelly’s flaws, I just have a hunch that we’ll be really good this year. He’s done well gathering assistants and filling in the gaps with good, experienced players in the portal. If he can piece it together or get outta the way, this team is talented and experienced enough to make a deep run.