Presidential Election 2024

Wild Bill

Wild Bill

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TorontoGold said:
You do not have statues for traitors. Simple as that. Putting them up in the 1960's because the civil rights movement, that's another huge L.
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Sea Turtle said:
You have a point.
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No he doesn't.

Lee was not a traitor. He fought for the South because he believed his duty was to his state, not the Union, which was a widely held view at the time. After Virginia seceded, Lee resigned from the Union army and joined the Confederacy, despite personally believing that secession was a mistake. You might not fully understand this historical context, possibly because you're Canadian, but I suspect it has more to do with your moronic worldview.
 
Bishop2b5

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Wild Bill said:
No he doesn't.

Lee was not a traitor. He fought for the South because he believed his duty was to his state, not the Union, which was a widely held view at the time. After Virginia seceded, Lee resigned from the Union army and joined the Confederacy, despite personally believing that secession was a mistake. You might not fully understand this historical context, possibly because you're Canadian, but I suspect it has more to do with your moronic worldview.
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And this is an important point that's largely been forgotten. The US, as originally conceived and established by Jefferson, Adams, and the rest of the founding fathers, was to be a union of autonomous states, not a single entity controlled by the Federal government... something akin to the current European Union.
 
TorontoGold

TorontoGold

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Wild Bill said:
No he doesn't.

Lee was not a traitor. He fought for the South because he believed his duty was to his state, not the Union, which was a widely held view at the time. After Virginia seceded, Lee resigned from the Union army and joined the Confederacy, despite personally believing that secession was a mistake. You might not fully understand this historical context, possibly because you're Canadian, but I suspect it has more to do with your moronic worldview.
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You say "because you're Canadian" and then go on to say "moronic worldview" - the sheer lack of self awareness is incredible. The point is you shouldn't have a statue representing a movement that was to leave the country. I would have thought someone with as much jingoistic autofellatio would have an issue with that.
 
TorontoGold

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drayer54 said:
I want to understand how anyone is undecided. People may not like one or both, but the difference is a mile-wide. You've had the 4-year sampler of each.
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Pretty sure the only one who has stated they aren't voting for Harris or Trump is @Irish#1 I could be wrong but I think he's been clear he isn't voting either. Would be interested to hear why.
 
Jiggafini19Deux

Jiggafini19Deux

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GATTACA! said:
Could have fooled me. Didn't seem like he prepared at all.
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He'll change his mind again. If his team has any sense, they won't let him. Although, evidently, the debate didn't do much for some people in terms of moving them one way or the other.

I'm done with the mental gymnastics of trying to figure out undecided voters. They're voting for Trump.

I will continue to stress how fucking important education is and that the internet has essentially ruined society.

Go Irish. Beat Boilers.
 
NDVirginia19

NDVirginia19

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Wild Bill said:
No he doesn't.

Lee was not a traitor. He fought for the South because he believed his duty was to his state, not the Union, which was a widely held view at the time. After Virginia seceded, Lee resigned from the Union army and joined the Confederacy, despite personally believing that secession was a mistake. You might not fully understand this historical context, possibly because you're Canadian, but I suspect it has more to do with your moronic worldview.
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Waging war on the United States as an American citizen is like the #1 example of how to be a traitor. I think it is one thing to say that conventionally that was a period of time where the states were more independent, federalized political entities than they are today and another thing to say that it is not traitorous to pledge allegiance to your state over the United States. In fact, Lee, as a military officer in the United States Army, would have sworn to this oath in the 1820s and again throughout his career
"I, A. B., do solemnly swear, or affirm, (as the case may be,) that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the United States of America; and that I will serve them honestly and faithfully against their enemies or opposers whomsoever; and that I will observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the rules and articles of war. "

He swore allegiance to the United States and broke that oath when he brought up arms against it. I can understand not wanting to continue to serve in the Union Army if he felt strongly enough about it, but by bringing up arms against his fellow countrymen for a sworn enemy of the United States, he is a traitor.
 
Bishop2b5

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NDVirginia19 said:
Waging war on the United States as an American citizen is like the #1 example of how to be a traitor. I think it is one thing to say that conventionally that was a period of time where the states were more independent, federalized political entities than they are today and another thing to say that it is not traitorous to pledge allegiance to your state over the United States. In fact, Lee, as a military officer in the United States Army, would have sworn to this oath in the 1820s and again throughout his career
"I, A. B., do solemnly swear, or affirm, (as the case may be,) that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the United States of America; and that I will serve them honestly and faithfully against their enemies or opposers whomsoever; and that I will observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the rules and articles of war. "

He swore allegiance to the United States and broke that oath when he brought up arms against it. I can understand not wanting to continue to serve in the Union Army if he felt strongly enough about it, but by bringing up arms against his fellow countrymen for a sworn enemy of the United States, he is a traitor.
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I think that's a rather narrow view of it. I believe most Union Army officers who resigned their commission and joined the army of their Southern state, and in fact, the general population of The South, viewed their actions much more like those of their ancestors 90 years before who renounced their loyalty to Britain and broke away to form a new country. Remember, they made no effort to overthrow the Union; just to separate themselves from it and go their own way.
 
NDVirginia19

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Bishop2b5 said:
I think that's a rather narrow view of it. I believe most Union Army officers who resigned their commission and joined the army of their Southern state, and in fact, the general population of The South, viewed their actions much more like those of their ancestors 90 years before who renounced their loyalty to Britain and broke away to form a new country. Remember, they made no effort to overthrow the Union; just to separate themselves from it and go their own way.
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Who fired the first shots?
 
Sea Turtle

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Wild Bill said:
No he doesn't.

Lee was not a traitor. He fought for the South because he believed his duty was to his state, not the Union, which was a widely held view at the time. After Virginia seceded, Lee resigned from the Union army and joined the Confederacy, despite personally believing that secession was a mistake. You might not fully understand this historical context, possibly because you're Canadian, but I suspect it has more to do with your moronic worldview.
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That's what I was trying to explain to him. The United States was something very much different pre civil war than post civil war. Your state was where your allegiance was at.

He doesn't think statues should be erected of him. I get his viewpoint but part of bringing the south back into the fold was recognizing and respecting their heroes
 
NDVirginia19

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Sea Turtle said:
That's what I was trying to explain to him. The United States was something very much different pre civil war than post civil war. Your state was where your allegiance was at.

He doesn't think statues should be erected of him. I get his viewpoint but part of bringing the south back into the fold was recognizing and respecting their heroes
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I mean a lot of it determines on your constitutional interpretation of state secession. Were the states legally allowed to unilaterally seceed? Did they retain their status of statehood during the rebellion? Were they automatically states gain once the Confederate army surrendered and CSA dissolved? There's not really a clear constitutional answer on that question. However, if you look at the history of the statues, the vast majority of them were erected long past reconstruction, and mostly popped up as counter movements to the Civil Rights movement. One of the worst things that ever happened in this country's history post-Civil war was the Compromise of 1878 ending Reconstruction and allowing the hero worship of the Confederacy and her leaders to fester.
 
Sea Turtle

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NDVirginia19 said:
I mean a lot of it determines on your constitutional interpretation of state secession. Were the states legally allowed to unilaterally seceed? Did they retain their status of statehood during the rebellion? Were they automatically states gain once the Confederate army surrendered and CSA dissolved? There's not really a clear constitutional answer on that question. However, if you look at the history of the statues, the vast majority of them were erected long past reconstruction, and mostly popped up as counter movements to the Civil Rights movement. One of the worst things that ever happened in this country's history post-Civil war was the Compromise of 1878 ending Reconstruction and allowing the hero worship of the Confederacy and her leaders to fester.
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You have some points. The legality of it was very gray. Ultimately, might makes right.
 
ulukinatme

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Can't remember if I saw this video here or elsewhere, but I watched it yesterday.



The consensus seems to be that no one is really seeing anybody eating cats or pets among those interviewed, and for good reason because it seems like these Haitians have plenty of free food via food stamps. If anything the only people that could possibly be cooking pets might be new arrivals that haven't gotten benefits yet, or they're unable to get food because they're having supply issues. Only one guy claimed to actually see someone snatching cats and he was sketchy at best. Seems highly unlikely either way, and most of the Haitians just laughed when asked about it.

On the other hand there does appear to be a real issue with housing and driving. These migrants are somehow getting licenses that probably shouldn't be and based on video there is a real issue with excessive accidents. As far as housing, it seems like there's a lot of poor white people in Springfield (confirmed) that are struggling to get housing as they're either getting replaced by Haitians that have government funding and landlords have increased rent to take advantage of this, or they're priced out of new housing all together because said landlords are raising rent as mentioned. These migrants shouldn't be financed by our taxpayers, and our government is putting Americans on the streets.
 
Bishop2b5

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ulukinatme said:
On the other hand there does appear to be a real issue with housing and driving. These migrants are somehow getting licenses that probably shouldn't be and based on video there is a real issue with excessive accidents. As far as housing, it seems like there's a lot of poor white people in Springfield (confirmed) that are struggling to get housing as they're either getting replaced by Haitians that have government funding and landlords have increased rent to take advantage of this, or they're priced out of new housing all together because said landlords are raising rent as mentioned. These migrants shouldn't be financed by our taxpayers, and our government is putting Americans on the streets.
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And this is a major issue a lot of Americans have with the Democrats' immigration policies. We're all for immigration. We're all for helping the less fortunate and taking in legit refugees in most cases, but not when it directly harms our own citizens and drives them out of the job or housing market.
 
NDVirginia19

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I watched that and literally guffawed knowing either a) how full of shit she was or b) how clueless she was thinking that we don't have troops in harm's way overseas in combat zones
 
GATTACA!

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IrishLax said:
Is Trump gay?

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Maybe. Does kinda look trans....
240912-laura-loomer-vl-501p-415051.jpg
 
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