'23 TX WR Jaden Greathouse (Notre Dame Signee)

[CanadalovesND]

Counterpoint:

After 5 games of film, isn't it kind of the QB coach/OC's job to get him to make those throws though?

(I'm not saying I agree that we should lose our WR commits, just that Rees should be held accountable for his QB room and his QB room's general decision-making processes on the field.)

Rees should have some accountability as he is the QB coach. But, it's hard to point the finger at Rees when Pyne misses throws that he shouldn't.

 

[stlnd01]

I will root for ND but I am at a point where I cannot watch. ND is not a place for coaching try outs. LSU sniped Kelly, ND knows it does not have the ability to snipe even a mid-major coach. Honestly if Freeman does not work out (or when his try outs are over) Tommy Rees will be the next Head Coach at Notre Dame.

Dude.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I will root for ND but I am at a point where I cannot watch. ND is not a place for coaching try outs. LSU sniped Kelly, ND knows it does not have the ability to snipe even a mid-major coach. Honestly if Freeman does not work out (or when his try outs are over) Tommy Rees will be the next Head Coach at Notre Dame.

We can snipe mid major coaches. We just can't snipe big exciting power 5 coaches.

And I agree that ND is not a place to learn to be a head coach.

 

[Irish4life]

Counterpoint:

After 5 games of film, isn't it kind of the QB coach/OC's job to get him to make those throws though?

(I'm not saying I agree that we should lose our WR commits, just that Rees should be held accountable for his QB room and his QB room's general decision-making processes on the field.)

Rees is ultimately responsible for Pyne being on the field because he didn't recruit well enough at the QB position to have someone else who was better once Buchner went down. However, when he schemes open Lenzy down field, and Pyne looks at it, and instead forces the ball to Mayer in triple coverage.....it's not on the usage of WRs in the offense. It's on the QB making a bad decision.

 

[IrishLion]

Rees should have some accountability as he is the QB coach. But, it's hard to point the finger at Rees when Pyne misses throws that he shouldn't.

Missing throws physically, like with inaccuracy, is out of Rees' hands.

But missing even the opportunity to throw to an open receiver due to poor field vision, awareness, or refusal to go through any progression at all comes back to Rees at some point.

Even if you make the argument that some guys are more gifted than others in terms of seeing the field... that comes back to Rees' evaluation, recruiting and work in the film room.

What stands out to me is how often we have receivers open either underneath, or right at their break at the sticks on key downs... and Drew just doesn't get to those reads, almost ever. I get that part of it is forcing the ball to Mayer, because of course you're gonna force-feed Mayer. We'd all be screaming if he had less targets than he does. But Tommy is actually scheming some great stuff (when he isn't ruining his own drives by getting too cute when he doesn't need to), his QB just isn't seeing it.

I also get that it takes time, and Drew has only been at the helm for 5 games... but some of the misses seem like alarming, QB101 type stuff at times.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I will root for ND but I am at a point where I cannot watch. ND is not a place for coaching try outs. LSU sniped Kelly, ND knows it does not have the ability to snipe even a mid-major coach. Honestly if Freeman does not work out (or when his try outs are over) Tommy Rees will be the next Head Coach at Notre Dame.

Honestly, and I'm not trying to be butt hurt about Kelly all over, I wouldn't want to snipe a coach like LSU did. LSU did nothing wrong, Kelly could have been a little bit more open to his players and just said he's leaving for the money. The players found out because the news leaked and then Kelly bad mouthed ND. I don't want a coach like that. If you are a head coach somewhere else and you are taking the ND job, man the F up, tell your team as soon as you can. Don't badmouth your former team, because without that team, you wouldn't be where you are.

Also, ND can snipe mid major coaches. I agree with the Turtle, it's the "exciting" coaches we can't.

 

[Dale]

it's the "exciting" coaches we can't.

We’re one year removed from hiring the most exciting DC in CFB, no?

 

[IHateMarkMay]

We’re one year removed from hiring the most exciting DC in CFB, no?

I mean, we're all pessimistic about ND right now lol. I'm trying to think of who an exciting coach who is clean enough that ND would consider and if I'd want him as a head coach. Hell, I don't think Kelly is exciting. Riley might be, but he won't come here after being at SC.

Exciting coordinators are a different story lol.

 

[Dale]

I mean, we're all pessimistic about ND right now lol. I'm trying to think of who an exciting coach who is clean enough that ND would consider and if I'd want him as a head coach. Hell, I don't think Kelly is exciting. Riley might be, but he won't come here after being at SC.

Exciting coordinators are a different story lol.

I don’t know if I’d want to be marked as a as a school that is always sniping good head coaches. That means you constantly need a new head coach?

Consistently hiring good coordinators is a attribute put to the test much more often

 

[irishff1014]

Missing throws physically, like with inaccuracy, is out of Rees' hands.

But missing even the opportunity to throw to an open receiver due to poor field vision, awareness, or refusal to go through any progression at all comes back to Rees at some point.

Even if you make the argument that some guys are more gifted than others in terms of seeing the field... that comes back to Rees' evaluation, recruiting and work in the film room.

What stands out to me is how often we have receivers open either underneath, or right at their break at the sticks on key downs... and Drew just doesn't get to those reads, almost ever. I get that part of it is forcing the ball to Mayer, because of course you're gonna force-feed Mayer. We'd all be screaming if he had less targets than he does. But Tommy is actually scheming some great stuff (when he isn't ruining his own drives by getting too cute when he doesn't need to), his QB just isn't seeing it.

I also get that it takes time, and Drew has only been at the helm for 5 games... but some of the misses seem like alarming, QB101 type stuff at times.

Drew has been here for 3 years and he looks like freshman.

 

[Deirishpisser]

Drew has been here for 3 years and he looks like freshman.

Rees also helped recruit shorter qb's. There are examples of young qb's thriving (OSU last year), examples of shorter/less athletic qb's also doing well (Georgia). Either we arent recruiting the right talent, or not developing, or not scheming correctly. The passing game has been an issue with Rees at the helm.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Opens up a new thread today and realizes we are still talking about Tommy in a thread that isnt about Tommy

 

[T-Boone]

Opens up a new thread today and realizes we are still talking about Tommy in a thread that isnt about Tommy

Threads that are about WRs slipping away are about Rees.

 

[Deirishpisser]

well, they are looking cause of what they see from the offense.

 

[chisea03]

Rees is ultimately responsible for Pyne being on the field because he didn't recruit well enough at the QB position to have someone else who was better once Buchner went down. However, when he schemes open Lenzy down field, and Pyne looks at it, and instead forces the ball to Mayer in triple coverage.....it's not on the usage of WRs in the offense. It's on the QB making a bad decision.

To be fair and unbiased, Mayer is the favorite target for both TB and DP. DP spreads it around more than TB but neither has performed to the level anyone has expected for a starting QB at ND. And for the record, if you watch the first two games, the receivers were gripping about being open (Styles) in those games as well.

TB does not fit TR offense and neither are the answers for taking ND to a title. Just my opinions.

 

[Irish4life]

To be fair and unbiased, Mayer is the favorite target for both TB and DP. DP spreads it around more than TB but neither has performed to the level anyone has expected for a starting QB at ND. And for the record, if you watch the first two games, the receivers were gripping about being open (Styles) in those games as well.

TB does not fit TR offense and neither are the answers for taking ND to a title. Just my opinions.

Buchner absolutely fits what Rees wanted to do, and attempted passes down field at a much higher clip than Pyne in his limited sample size. His ADOT was 10.7 (Pyne's is 7.6 at present). He certainly didn't hit enough of the passes he attempted, but he did attempt them. And with more reps he almost certainly gets the timing of those throws down. The most receptions Lorenzo Styles has had in any game this season was Marshall, where he had 7. Outside of the UNC game where he had 5 receptions, Styles hasn't had more than 3 receptions in any of Drew Pyne's starts thus far.

 

[arndtjc]

I mean, we're all pessimistic about ND right now lol. I'm trying to think of who an exciting coach who is clean enough that ND would consider and if I'd want him as a head coach. Hell, I don't think Kelly is exciting. Riley might be, but he won't come here after being at SC.

Exciting coordinators are a different story lol.

Klieman and Fickell off the top of my head would be great fits in South Bend. Fickell is probably the ND head coach right this second if Cinci wasn’t heading to the playoff when Kelly dipped out

 

[Blazers46]

Klieman and Fickell off the top of my head would be great fits in South Bend. Fickell is probably the ND head coach right this second if Cinci wasn’t heading to the playoff when Kelly dipped out

I don’t think so. You can still talk to Fickells reps to gauge interest and waiting a few weeks or a month for bowl games isn’t that big of a deal if Fickell were to want to wait to announce, which why would he want to?

 

[Free Manera]

Threads that are about WRs slipping away are about Rees.

To be fair though Lyons literally said he had concerns about the passing game and then what do you know ND is “moving on.” Talking about the OC is relevant in a lot of these threads.

 

[T-Boone]

well, they are looking cause of what they see from the offense.

Yep. If it hard for the fans to watch on tv and in The stands you can imagine what the verbals are thinking.

 

[Blazers46]

This doesn’t sound like you, man. Don’t let all the overly negative propaganda get to you. (Note: I don’t mean critical thought.) When Notre Dame starts doing well, those propagators will vanish.

I don’t really go anywhere to be propogandized. No sports radio, no ESPN unless it’s a game. I don’t even get on FB anymore. Feel like we made strides only to fall victim to ourselves again.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

I don’t really go anywhere to be propogandized. No sports radio, no ESPN unless it’s a game. I don’t even get on FB anymore. Feel like we made strides only to fall victim to ourselves again.

If we don’t have some optimism that the program will progress then we have nothing. It’s been a very disappointing year so far, no doubt about it. I’ve been an ND fan since the Dan Devine years and there have been plenty of ups and downs since that time. We need to give MF and the staff more than 7 games before we jump 💪🏼

 

[arndtjc]

I don’t think so. You can still talk to Fickells reps to gauge interest and waiting a few weeks or a month for bowl games isn’t that big of a deal if Fickell were to want to wait to announce, which why would he want to?

Nope. Not in this day in age of the early signing period. The ‘22 class was so important to get over the finish line, they absolutely could not have waited until January to announce a new head coach. I’m guessing Swarbrick reached out to Fickell’s people, Fickell said come back and talk in January, and they just didn’t have time to wait for it to come to fruition.

All that said, I fully believe Freeman is gonna figure this out, we’re just gonna have to ride some bumpy roads that come with a guy learning on the fly.

 

[Ray “The Mule” Finkle]

Nope. Not in this day in age of the early signing period. The ‘22 class was so important to get over the finish line, they absolutely could not have waited until January to announce a new head coach. I’m guessing Swarbrick reached out to Fickell’s people, Fickell said come back and talk in January, and they just didn’t have time to wait for it to come to fruition.

All that said, I fully believe Freeman is gonna figure this out, we’re just gonna have to ride some bumpy roads that come with a guy learning on the fly.

Politely, I must ask your reasoning for why you “fully” believe he’ll turn it around? I hear this a lot. When pressed, nobody comes up with much of a reason.

 

[T-Boone]

Politely, I must ask your reasoning for why you “fully” believe he’ll turn it around? I hear this a lot. When pressed, nobody comes up with much of a reason.

Yep unless he is known to have some leverage BK didn’t have to get the powers that be to relax whatever needs relaxing then one is just hoping.

 

[Blazers46]

Nope. Not in this day in age of the early signing period. The ‘22 class was so important to get over the finish line, they absolutely could not have waited until January to announce a new head coach. I’m guessing Swarbrick reached out to Fickell’s people, Fickell said come back and talk in January, and they just didn’t have time to wait for it to come to fruition.

All that said, I fully believe Freeman is gonna figure this out, we’re just gonna have to ride some bumpy roads that come with a guy learning on the fly.

I agree on the recruiting which is why Fickell would announce he’s leaving or just leave.

 

[Wild Bill]

Politely, I must ask your reasoning for why you “fully” believe he’ll turn it around? I hear this a lot. When pressed, nobody comes up with much of a reason.

He looks lovely in pullovers.

 

[arndtjc]

Politely, I must ask your reasoning for why you “fully” believe he’ll turn it around? I hear this a lot. When pressed, nobody comes up with much of a reason.

Because his recruiting is already better than Kelly’s, he’s a great motivator of young men, and an overall bright football mind who’s defensive scheme and deployment shot him through the ranks on a meteoric rise. He’s been successful everywhere in his life, you don’t see how that’s going to eventually translate into success in South Bend? This current team is an average offensive output away from being a 1 loss team. The flashes have been there, and the talent coming in the next couple cycles is only going to up the ceiling.

Are those good enough reasons, or will you find something else to poo-poo about?

 

[arndtjc]

I agree on the recruiting which is why Fickell would announce he’s leaving or just leave.

In the middle of a run to a playoff appearance? No chance. ND couldn’t wait, and Fickell couldn’t leave before seeing the season through or let it hang over the program as they prepared for the playoff game. Right guy, wrong timing

 

[Dale]

I don’t think so. You can still talk to Fickells reps to gauge interest and waiting a few weeks or a month for bowl games isn’t that big of a deal if Fickell were to want to wait to announce, which why would he want to?

Implication being you don’t think they did that? I’m sure they had some level of preliminary talks