Tommy Rees - Offensive Coordinator

[NDFAN2008]

The factual commonality Rees looks for in a recruit is his football knowledge. Probably, I’ll even agree definitely, to a fault. I don’t believe he looks for short white immobile QBs even though that is repeated frequently. Pocket or dual threat, white, black or Asian. Tall or short he wants you to pass his QB knowledge tests.

Well he has passed on 2 tall future NFL QB's maybe 3 in the last 3 classes.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Yes. But my point is that if you accounted for talent, I don't think ND is top 20 or 25. There used to be a guy that looked at tempo adjusted offensive and defensive stats by recruiting stars. Now, this blends many things together, but adjusts your ranking based on perceived strength of roster. I remember this vividly as it consistently ranked Elko as on of the top DCs when at WF. I wish they were still around today or I knew where to find it.

Not sure how to suss out the effects of scheme from underperforming talent. Except for a brief period under Weis (which was stymied by poor OL play,) we've never recruited the offensive skill positions well enough to field an explosive offense. So we end up in a boring ball-control type offense by necessity, which in turn makes it harder to recruit the elite athletes we'd need to do something different, etc.

 

[Dale]

Well he has passed on 2 tall future NFL QB's maybe 3 in the last 3 classes.

Right and Jurkovec is gonna be a 1st rounder.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Not sure how to suss out the effects of scheme from underperforming talent. Except for a brief period under Weis (which was stymied by poor OL play,) we've never recruited the offensive skill positions well enough to field an explosive offense. So we end up in a boring ball-control type offense by necessity, which in turn makes it harder to recruit the elite athletes we'd need to do something different, etc.

Although at some point Kelly became risk-averse to a fault and a boring ball control offense was perfect for avoiding losses to bad teams.

I was optimistic about Rees opening up the offense. He did it after Chip Long and showed a willingness to throw it all over the field against Oklahoma State. But something needs to change if ND is going to swing at the top of CFB.

 

[IrishLax]

My big issue is that ND used to really recruit guys with upside and there haven't been many recently where they project as having "elite" tools. For example, contrast Drew Allar with Steven Angeli. Angeli might end up being a better QB, but it won't be because of his arm/athleticism/etc.

Golson, Kiel, Kizer, Wimbush all had some elite traits whether it was arm or athleticism or a combination. Zaire didn't have upside as a thrower and was the only one in that group that was "limited."

Then you had a bunch of QBs from Book onward where you go "it would take a miracle for that guy to be an NFL starter". Jurkovec and Buchner are literally the only guys since '16 who even had "pro" traits on paper. And both were projects as passers.

The way ND recruits QB versus how Bama or Ohio State or other serious schools do is insane. Bama will bring in four top rated guys in a row and won't care that two bust. ND will be stuck praying that the one quality guy they sign pans out and will have no contingency plan for that not being the case.

 

[Grahambo]

Whiskey is on point today.

 

[IrishLax]

Right and Jurkovec is gonna be a 1st rounder.

Wait hasn't he been terrible this year? I thought he was like 100th in QBR.

 

[Grahambo]

My big issue is that ND used to really recruit guys with upside and there haven't been many recently where they project as having "elite" tools. For example, contrast Drew Allar with Steven Angeli. Angeli might end up being a better QB, but it won't be because of his arm/athleticism/etc.

Golson, Kiel, Kizer, Wimbush all had some elite traits whether it was arm or athleticism or a combination. Zaire didn't have upside as a thrower and was the only one in that group that was "limited."

Then you had a bunch of QBs from Book onward where you go "it would take a miracle for that guy to be an NFL starter". Jurkovec and Buchner are literally the only guys since '16 who even had "pro" traits on paper. And both were projects as passers.

The way ND recruits QB versus how Bama or Ohio State or other serious schools do is insane. Bama will bring in four top rated guys in a row and won't care that two bust. ND will be stuck praying that the one quality guy they sign pans out and will have no contingency plan for that not being the case.

Ohio State brought in Quinn Ewers and lose nothing after he departed after a year. We lose Buchner for the year and we now have to hold on to our butts for the rest of the season and pray for the transfer portal.

 

[dublinirish]

Tommy on the phone to Pyne versus Cal

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Wait hasn't he been terrible this year? I thought he was like 100th in QBR.

Yeah, he's been brutal against his two P5 opponents (Rutgers and Virginia Tech). His season line only looks respectable because of his stats against Maine who is FCS.

Phil Jurkovec 2022 Game Log | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

 

[Dale]

Wait hasn't he been terrible this year? I thought he was like 100th in QBR.

I was being sarcastic because didn’t even want to engage the possible rabbit hole whoever is apparently already NFL bound.

 

[stlnd01]

The factual commonality Rees looks for in a recruit is his football knowledge. Probably, I’ll even agree definitely, to a fault. I don’t believe he looks for short white immobile QBs even though that is repeated frequently. Pocket or dual threat, white, black or Asian. Tall or short he wants you to pass his QB knowledge tests.

Book is short and white but not at all immobile.
Angeli is white and immobile (I think?) but not short.
Clark is white, but tall enough and IIRC fairly mobile? Phil, too, is just white.
Buchner is none of those things. Nor Wimbush.
Only Pyne hits the trifecta. And so of course he's our starting quarterback now.

 

[Sea Turtle]

My big issue is that ND used to really recruit guys with upside and there haven't been many recently where they project as having "elite" tools. For example, contrast Drew Allar with Steven Angeli. Angeli might end up being a better QB, but it won't be because of his arm/athleticism/etc.

Golson, Kiel, Kizer, Wimbush all had some elite traits whether it was arm or athleticism or a combination. Zaire didn't have upside as a thrower and was the only one in that group that was "limited."

Then you had a bunch of QBs from Book onward where you go "it would take a miracle for that guy to be an NFL starter". Jurkovec and Buchner are literally the only guys since '16 who even had "pro" traits on paper. And both were projects as passers.

The way ND recruits QB versus how Bama or Ohio State or other serious schools do is insane. Bama will bring in four top rated guys in a row and won't care that two bust. ND will be stuck praying that the one quality guy they sign pans out and will have no contingency plan for that not being the case.

Yep, it's pretty insane. It's like ND isn't really trying compared to the 'serious' schools.

 

[Dale]

Book is short and white but not at all immobile.
Angeli is white and immobile (I think?) but not short.
Clark is white, but tall enough and IIRC fairly mobile? Phil, too, is just white.
Buchner is none of those things. Nor Wimbush.
Only Pyne hits the trifecta. And so of course he's our starting quarterback now.

Angeli is you’re classic deceptively mobile

He actually moves decent. Definitely faster straight line than Pyne.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Although at some point Kelly became risk-averse to a fault and a boring ball control offense was perfect for avoiding losses to bad teams.

I was optimistic about Rees opening up the offense. He did it after Chip Long and showed a willingness to throw it all over the field against Oklahoma State. But something needs to change if ND is going to swing at the top of CFB.

You know what needs to change. ND has to get serious.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

You know what needs to change. ND has to get serious.

Odds are very low that we're ever going to spend as freely on our football program as 'Bama, UGA or OSU do. Best we can probably hope for is maxing out our recruiting potential and following the Clemson model, which could give us a legitimate title shot once or twice a decade.

 

[Bluto]

Odds are very low that we're ever going to spend as freely on our football program as 'Bama, UGA or OSU do. Best we can probably hope for is maxing out our recruiting potential and following the Clemson model, which could give us a legitimate title shot once or twice a decade.

If the Clemson model is the answer it seems that deciding on a consistent offensive philosophy would be key. If I’m remembering correctly Dabo was in Kelly territory for a number of years until Watson (who fit the offensive identity they had established) came along and then things took off from there. I’m not sure what ND’s offensive philosophy has been since Kelly started coaching at ND to the present.

 

[ColinKSU]

17th in OFEI (which is opponent and garbage time adjusted) in 2020, and 20th in OFEI in 2021. When Rees has a veteran QB he is a pretty good offensive play caller....but his QB recruiting is indefensible. No matter how you feel about Buchner (personally I think the calls for him to transfer out are ridiculous), Clark, Pyne, Buchner, Angeli is a mid 4 year stretch.

Mid would be a compliment. None of them would reach #2 at the schools Notre Dame claims to aspire to be.

 

[ulukinatme]

Book is short and white but not at all immobile.
Angeli is white and immobile (I think?) but not short.
Clark is white, but tall enough and IIRC fairly mobile? Phil, too, is just white.
Buchner is none of those things. Nor Wimbush.
Only Pyne hits the trifecta. And so of course he's our starting quarterback now.

Don't hate on Drew just cause he's undefeated as a starter.

 

[Huntr]

Odds are very low that we're ever going to spend as freely on our football program as 'Bama, UGA or OSU do. Best we can probably hope for is maxing out our recruiting potential and following the Clemson model, which could give us a legitimate title shot once or twice a decade.

They have a way to go before they can even do that, I think.

At this point, I'd probably settle for not feeling like absolute shit even when ND wins.

 

[NDRock]

Odds are very low that we're ever going to spend as freely on our football program as 'Bama, UGA or OSU do. Best we can probably hope for is maxing out our recruiting potential and following the Clemson model, which could give us a legitimate title shot once or twice a decade.

Completely agree. This has been the frustrating part of Rees for me. I like him fine as a play caller/scheme guy but the “Clemson model” is predicated on great QB play. We are probably 3 years away from getting that and that’s if Carr pans out. Coming into the year I really wanted to see two things from Rees. The development of his QBs (TB & Pyne) and getting an elite guy in the ‘23 class. Right now i would give him an F in both categories. Hopefully, Pyne turns it on and we win 9 games, Carr reclassifies, and we make inroads on some elite ‘24 kids. All possible and I’m hoping like heck it does. If not, I won’t mind him moving on.

 

[stlnd01]

Completely agree. This has been the frustrating part of Rees for me. I like him fine as a play caller/scheme guy but the “Clemson model” is predicated on great QB play. We are probably 3 years away from getting that and that’s if Carr pans out. Coming into the year I really wanted to see two things from Rees. The development of his QBs (TB & Pyne) and getting an elite guy in the ‘23 class. Right now i would give him an F in both categories. Hopefully, Pyne turns it on and we win 9 games, Carr reclassifies, and we make inroads on some elite ‘24 kids. All possible and I’m hoping like heck it does. If not, I won’t mind him moving on.

I won't mind him moving on largely b/c Notre Dame fans have been loudly debating the merits of Tommy Rees for half of my adult life and I'm sick of it. I can't imagine how Tommy feels, but I wouldn't be surprised if he'd like a fresh start too.

Dude stayed on this year instead of taking a larger paycheck elsewhere - I got the sense anyway - in no small part out of loyalty to the players and the program at a time of great instability. And here we are kicking him for every single thing we don't like about everything.

I wish he was better too, especially at recruiting, but it all gets to be a lot.

 

[Grahambo]

Angeli is you’re classic deceptively mobile

He actually moves decent. Definitely faster straight line than Pyne.

Giants fans refer to being deceptively mobile as “Eli Manning”.

 

[Irish4life]

If the Clemson model is the answer it seems that deciding on a consistent offensive philosophy would be key. If I’m remembering correctly Dabo was in Kelly territory for a number of years until Watson (who fit the offensive identity they had established) came along and then things took off from there. I’m not sure what ND’s offensive philosophy has been since Kelly started coaching at ND to the present.

This is an underrated aspect of things. I can tell you what Clemson's offensive identity is (spread-option), I can tell you what Ohio State's offensive identity is (power spread), ND has changed their offense almost entirely several times. While I do like having the ablity to adapt to your personnel, it would be nice if ND had a core philosophy for what we want the offense to be.

 

[Irish4life]

Odds are very low that we're ever going to spend as freely on our football program as 'Bama, UGA or OSU do. Best we can probably hope for is maxing out our recruiting potential and following the Clemson model, which could give us a legitimate title shot once or twice a decade.

Clemson model got the Tigers a 6 year title window with Watson and Lawrence (2015-2020). And they may have another one again if DJ lives up to his potential and/or if Klubnik is a stud. That would be the model for ND to follow though for sure.

 

[T-Boone]

Dude stayed on this year instead of taking a larger paycheck elsewhere - I got the sense anyway - in no small part out of loyalty to the players and the program at a time of great instability. And here we are kicking him for every single thing we don't like about everything.

I don’t blame him for covid.

 

[Dale]

This is an underrated aspect of things. I can tell you what Clemson's offensive identity is (spread-option), I can tell you what Ohio State's offensive identity is (power spread), ND has changed their offense almost entirely several times. While I do like having the ablity to adapt to your personnel, it would be nice if ND had a core philosophy for what we want the offense to be.

I doubt Clemson fans agree Clemson has an offensive identity. Clemsons offensive identity has been have a generational QB.

The only resemblance of purposeful scheme they had last year was running angle routes to Will Shipley.

 

[Irish4life]

Mid would be a compliment. None of them would reach #2 at the schools Notre Dame claims to aspire to be.

I think Angeli has a chance to be quite good. I like the size and I think he has a bigger arm than people give him credit for. I'm still in on Buchner, think the people calling for him to transfer are being ridiculous. He had a bad game against Marshall but he also got zero help from any of his Receivers (outside of Mayer), and didn't get any help from his OC either. The year that hurts ND the most in all of this IMO is only taking Pyne in 2020. That was the year to take 2 QBs. Could've asked Buchner to move up a year and then ND takes McCarthy in 21. Guess they also could've asked McCarthy to reclass to 22....but hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[stlnd01]

I think Angeli has a chance to be quite good. I like the size and I think he has a bigger arm than people give him credit for. I'm still in on Buchner, think the people calling for him to transfer are being ridiculous. He had a bad game against Marshall but he also got zero help from any of his Receivers (outside of Mayer), and didn't get any help from his OC either. The year that hurts ND the most in all of this IMO is only taking Pyne in 2020. That was the year to take 2 QBs. Could've asked Buchner to move up a year and then ND takes McCarthy in 21. Guess they also could've asked McCarthy to reclass to 22....but hindsight is always 20/20.

And we only took Clark the year before.

By all rights, someone from the ‘19 or ‘20 recruiting class should be a second-year starting QB for us right now, with Buchner (who is a redshirt freshman with very little game experience in his HS or college career but half the board wants to toss over one bad day) as understudy.

I guess we’ve got someone from the ‘20 class starting now but…

 

[Irish4life]

And we only took Clark the year before.

By all rights, someone from the ‘19 or ‘20 recruiting class should be a second-year starting QB for us right now, with Buchner (who is a redshirt freshman with very little game experience in his HS or college career but half the board wants to toss over one bad day) as understudy.

I guess we’ve got someone from the ‘20 class starting now but…

Clark we got after Cade McNamara decommitted and our push for Graham Mertz was too little too late. I feel like it's acceptable to take a kid with good physical tools but who's a massive project in that scenario. And had we followed it up with Buchner/Pyne, McCarthy, Angeli I don't think anyone would've been complaining too much about taking him. And if Buchner had been on campus in 2020, he might be in year 2 as ND's starting QB.