3 Years to get a QB1

[NDLincPark]

The last 10+ Years, the biggest problem with the team has been the QB.

Book, Wimbush, Kizer, Zaire, Golson, Reese, Crist

An overall Abysmal List.

BK had three years to sell a recruit. Come, be a true freshman, or come last year and redshirt, and then come into 2021 and be the undisputed 3 to 4 year leader for NOTRE DAME

And what are they rolling into 2021 with? A top 10 team, with a noodle arm Sr. QB transfer, who lost his job 2 years ago in Wisco, was a 3 star recruit, and has no future with the program.

Awful planning and execution. Kind of embarrassing

 

[IrishLax]

Spicy first post. Welcome aboard.

I think Coan will do a good job this year, but I agree that the recruiting + development after Wimbush left a large roster hole. Hoping Buchner can fill it starting next year.

 

[greyhammer90]

Welcome aboard.

 

[NDBoiler]

The last 10+ Years, the biggest problem with the team has been the QB.

Book, Wimbush, Kizer, Zaire, Golson, Reese, Crist

An overall Abysmal List.

BK had three years to sell a recruit. Come, be a true freshman, or come last year and redshirt, and then come into 2021 and be the undisputed 3 to 4 year leader for NOTRE DAME

And what are they rolling into 2021 with? A top 10 team, with a noodle arm Sr. QB transfer, who lost his job 2 years ago in Wisco, was a 3 star recruit, and has no future with the program.

Awful planning and execution. Kind of embarrassing

I think you might have posted on the wrong ND site. I believe the one you are looking for is actually called NDNation.

 

[IrishLion]

The last 10+ Years, the biggest problem with the team has been the QB.

Book, Wimbush, Kizer, Zaire, Golson, Reese, Crist

An overall Abysmal List.

BK had three years to sell a recruit. Come, be a true freshman, or come last year and redshirt, and then come into 2021 and be the undisputed 3 to 4 year leader for NOTRE DAME

And what are they rolling into 2021 with? A top 10 team, with a noodle arm Sr. QB transfer, who lost his job 2 years ago in Wisco, was a 3 star recruit, and has no future with the program.

Awful planning and execution. Kind of embarrassing

Conversely:

Coan is an experienced QB that has a proven ability to hit deep throws and a willingness to attack the middle of the field, and can act as a bridge to the type of QB you're asking for (Buchner) until he's ready.

Jurkovec is also the type of QB you're looking for, and I'd argue BK and co. aren't at fault for his decision to head to greener pastures. So they had a plan in place, and executed it via recruiting, but Book's emergence and Jurkovec's insecurities caused some upheaval.

Last, Coan didn't 'lose his job,' so much as he got Wally Pipped by another talented QB.

Overall, ND's QB situation has been weird as fuck basically since BK arrived. BK definitely bears responsibility for the way he handled the QB position in '11 and again in '16, but every other time it looked like they had a solid succession plan in place, the fickle football gods (or is it unpredictable young men, doing unpredictable young man things?) had other plans.

If I REALLY wanted to play devil's advocate to your post, which I'm still not even sure was made in good faith, I would even argue that BK and his OC's have done a pretty damn fine job with the mish-mash of QB bullshit they've been served at times, even if you argue that the issues are largely of their own making.

 

[Dale]

Saying Coan lost his job is a good way to make me not value the rest of the post lol.

 

[Trait Expectations]

The last 10+ Years, the biggest problem with the team has been the QB.

Book, Wimbush, Kizer, Zaire, Golson, Reese, Crist

An overall Abysmal List.

BK had three years to sell a recruit. Come, be a true freshman, or come last year and redshirt, and then come into 2021 and be the undisputed 3 to 4 year leader for NOTRE DAME

And what are they rolling into 2021 with? A top 10 team, with a noodle arm Sr. QB transfer, who lost his job 2 years ago in Wisco, was a 3 star recruit, and has no future with the program.

Awful planning and execution. Kind of embarrassing

embarrassing for who? Why does Coan have a noodle arm?

The amazing thing is how much we've won with the QBs you listed above. I mean, we haven't seen this consistent level of success or recruiting in 30 years.

I can't wait for you to share more of your thoughts on the program.

 

[Rogue219]

I'm sorry, but who is "Reese"?

Crist was recruited by the previous HC.

 

[BobbyMac]

I'm sorry, but who is "Reese"?

Crist was recruited by the previous HC.

So was Reese's Pieces.

 

[BobbyMac]

The last 10+ Years, the biggest problem with the team has been the QB.

Book, Wimbush, Kizer, Zaire, Golson, Reese, Crist

An overall Abysmal List.

BK had three years to sell a recruit. Come, be a true freshman, or come last year and redshirt, and then come into 2021 and be the undisputed 3 to 4 year leader for NOTRE DAME

And what are they rolling into 2021 with? A top 10 team, with a noodle arm Sr. QB transfer, who lost his job 2 years ago in Wisco, was a 3 star recruit, and has no future with the program.

Awful planning and execution. Kind of embarrassing

Welcome aboard ya flamethrower!

QB has been a big disappointment for me.

Got nothing out of Crist, Kiel or 5*Phil. OU or Clemson gets 7-8 years of very good service from guys they bring in with that much resume.

Buchner needs to pop next year and be Mayfield/Manzell in '23/'24.

As far as your take on Coan... 101 on the jug but a foot outside. Who cares how we get them anymore? Free agency is part of the game now. Should the Yankees give back their 7 free agency era championships cuz they figured out free agency first and had the checkbook to capitalize on it?

 

[Rogue219]

Should the Yankees give back their 7 free agency era championships cuz they figured out free agency first and had the checkbook to capitalize on it?

Um, that's Major League Baseball, not amateur football.

Don't recall Reese, so as forgettable as he was, maybe QB has truly been that bad.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Conversely:

Coan is an experienced QB that has a proven ability to hit deep throws and a willingness to attack the middle of the field, and can act as a bridge to the type of QB you're asking for (Buchner) until he's ready.

Jurkovec is also the type of QB you're looking for, and I'd argue BK and co. aren't at fault for his decision to head to greener pastures. So they had a plan in place, and executed it via recruiting, but Book's emergence and Jurkovec's insecurities caused some upheaval.

Last, Coan didn't 'lose his job,' so much as he got Wally Pipped by another talented QB.

Overall, ND's QB situation has been weird as fuck basically since BK arrived. BK definitely bears responsibility for the way he handled the QB position in '11 and again in '16, but every other time it looked like they had a solid succession plan in place, the fickle football gods (or is it unpredictable young men, doing unpredictable young man things?) had other plans.

If I REALLY wanted to play devil's advocate to your post, which I'm still not even sure was made in good faith, I would even argue that BK and his OC's have done a pretty damn fine job with the mish-mash of QB bullshit they've been served at times, even if you argue that the issues are largely of their own making.

I am curious about this point. In his year as starter at UW he averaged a full yard per completion below what ND was getting from Ian Book. I didn't want that much of him at UW but what I did see didn't really feature any attacking of the permieter.

 

[WilliamWallace]

I understand the frustration, been there done that. It’s pretty crazy to think of how many highly recruited QB’s we’ve had that didn’t pan out. But here we are, and it’s Coan.

One thing that may very well be in everyone’s favor is that Coan hasn’t been developed under our staff. Let’s hope this is the start of better things to come.

 

[BobbyMac]

Um, that's Major League Baseball, not amateur football.

Don't recall Reese, so as forgettable as he was, maybe QB has truly been that bad.

Free agency is free agency. Watch what happens in the next two seasons as programs figure out how to use it... and recruit players into it.

Bookmark it.

 

[dublinirish]

anytime a thread title is vague AF you know it gon' be good

 

[Rogue219]

Free agency is free agency. Watch what happens in the next two seasons as programs figure out how to use it... and recruit players into it.

Bookmark it.

It really isn't, though.

How about this comp instead: 2020 College Football Playoff. Joe Burrow, LSU. Jalen Hurts, Oklahoma. Justin Fields, Ohio State.

Why not Jack Coan and Notre Dame? The last full season this kid played he had NFL people giving him pretty good write ups. He got injured and now he's returned to play for a program that's on pretty solid ground. Wisconsin has a big OL and likes to run the ball. Sounds somewhat familiar.

Weird thread.

 

[WilliamWallace]

Why not Jack Coan and Notre Dame? The last full season this kid played he had NFL people giving him pretty good write ups. He got injured and now he's returned to play for a program that's on pretty solid ground. Wisconsin has a big OL and likes to run the ball. Sounds somewhat familiar.

Weird thread.

It’s crazy enough that it might just work!

 

[Irishnuke]

Coming in throwing bombs unlike ND's QBs the last decade. Boom.

 

[arndtjc]

Koon, is that you??

#FreeKoon

 

[GATTACA!]

The last 10+ Years, the biggest problem with the team has been the QB.

Book, Wimbush, Kizer, Zaire, Golson, Reese, Crist

An overall Abysmal List.

BK had three years to sell a recruit. Come, be a true freshman, or come last year and redshirt, and then come into 2021 and be the undisputed 3 to 4 year leader for NOTRE DAME

And what are they rolling into 2021 with? A top 10 team, with a noodle arm Sr. QB transfer, who lost his job 2 years ago in Wisco, was a 3 star recruit, and has no future with the program.

Awful planning and execution. Kind of embarrassing

Get a QB?

Oh just get a QB??

Why don't I strap on my QB helmet and squeeze down into a QB cannon and fire off into QBland where QBs grow on QBbies??

 

[Blazers46]

Development probably the bigger issue than the actual recruits. A top program with top coaches should be able to make due with what they have got. You listed some 4-5 star guys.

 

[IrishLion]

I am curious about this point. In his year as starter at UW he averaged a full yard per completion below what ND was getting from Ian Book. I didn't want that much of him at UW but what I did see didn't really feature any attacking of the permieter.

I'm not saying he's going to be dropping dimes all over the place... but he had pretty good success attacking the deep parts of the field at Wisconsin in '19, especially when targeting Quintez Cephus.

I'd bet his yards/completion were affected by Wisconsin's offense more so than his ability and willingness to push the ball down the field. And I'd also bet that he's going to have a deeper group of pass-catchers to target in different parts of the deep thirds than he had at Wiscy, which will result in better numbers, as well.

 

[IrishLion]

And another thing that stands out from that highlight video now that I watch it again is Coan's ability to hit the timing routes targeting the numbers on 10-yard out routes.

He doesn't have the strongest arm, but he throws on time and with confidence, giving his receivers a chance to make plays in the space between the safeties and corners. That type of confidence, and not necessarily being worried about plays the defenders *might* be able to make, is something Book struggled with when receivers would get open on their breaks... hopefully Coan maintains that, and there isn't something in Rees/BK's coaching that suddenly makes him hesitant.

Time will tell!

 

[Irish#1]

The last 10+ Years, the biggest problem with the team has been the QB.

Book, Wimbush, Kizer, Zaire, Golson, Reese, Crist

An overall Abysmal List.

BK had three years to sell a recruit. Come, be a true freshman, or come last year and redshirt, and then come into 2021 and be the undisputed 3 to 4 year leader for NOTRE DAME

And what are they rolling into 2021 with? A top 10 team, with a noodle arm Sr. QB transfer, who lost his job 2 years ago in Wisco, was a 3 star recruit, and has no future with the program.

Awful planning and execution. Kind of embarrassing

Someone needs a hug.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Development probably the bigger issue than the actual recruits. A top program with top coaches should be able to make due with what they have got. You listed some 4-5 star guys.

lol. There is an easy analysis to be done. For every QB that transferred out of ND, how did their career turn out? We have one speculative data point with Phil J. Wimbush - worse play, Golson - worse play, Zaire - worse play/couldn't earn the starting job, Crist couldn't play well at Kansas. Rees, who has extremely limited tools was maxed out under BK and Co. Kizer, who has had the best NFL coaches, fell to the earth rapidly.

Book, a 3 star recruit, led us to 2 undefeated seasons and a fun 2019.

QB recruiting is a gamble.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

And another thing that stands out from that highlight video now that I watch it again is Coan's ability to hit the timing routes targeting the numbers on 10-yard out routes.

He doesn't have the strongest arm, but he throws on time and with confidence, giving his receivers a chance to make plays in the space between the safeties and corners. That type of confidence, and not necessarily being worried about plays the defenders *might* be able to make, is something Book struggled with when receivers would get open on their breaks... hopefully Coan maintains that, and there isn't something in Rees/BK's coaching that suddenly makes him hesitant.

Time will tell!

He appears to be very poised and calm based on the film clips…….he’s now 2 years older so it is logical to believe he is now stronger and more mature mentally. Hopefully he will go out on the field and excel this year.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

If nothing else, welcome and thank you for your controversial post, which ignited a fun, even if questionable, conversation. With the lack of Fall Camp access, this board has been a lot quieter in August than what we're typically used to.

I think Lion nailed it, personally. Golson looked like he had a really promising career ahead of him after the '12 campaign, only to have his future derailed by the academic scandal, and then something snapped with his mental fortitude halfway through 2014. He was never the same after that ASU game in the desert.

Then Zaire looked promising in the bowl game and had that explosive start against UT in 2015, only to have a freak injury at UVA. Bk and the staff did wonders with Kizer in 2015, all things considered. 2016 is well documented, as Lion pointed out, as an absolute disaster. Wimbush had all the potential in 2017, but just wasn't consistent enough to do the things we needed offensively.

Book went from a 3 star recruit to the all time winningest QB in ND HISTORY (that goes back a long ways, I've been told) and Phil couldn't swallow losing the competition in 2020, even though he would've still had 3 years of eligibility post-Book, if he wanted it. Not sure how a fragile ego (just my opinion) is BK's fault, ultimately.

I look at that narrative and see a lot of overcoming strange obstacles and navigating detours, rather than a lack of solid recruiting and development. They DID develop Kizer. They DID develop Book. They DID develop Rees. These weren't 4-5 star studs. Only Kizer was a low 4 star, yet they got the most out of these guys who were basically supposed to be perennial backups, but instead won us a ton of games while our top guys faced injuries, suspensions, etc.

Although the QB situation has been fluky and less than ideal for the most part this past decade, I feel like kudos are in order more so than pointing fingers.

And I just have to say it: Rees had a noodle arm; not sure I'd put Coan in that category. And I still loved Touchdown Tommy.

 

[Irish#1]

If Golson would have learned to tuck the ball when he ran, we might have had a natty. You just knew the fumble was coming. Agree on Coan. He may not have a cannon, but the clips show decent arm strength and the ability to go deep when needed. He lost the job due to injury. That happens at times. He can also run, so don't be surprised if he runs more than expected.

 

[IrishLion]

And I just have to say it: Rees had a noodle arm; not sure I'd put Coan in that category. And I still loved Touchdown Tommy.

He was a statue with a noodle arm... but he was a gunslinger with ice running through his veins, and he scored the best rushing touchdown of 2012 (of which there were MANY good ones).

Tommy Rees, Notre Dame Man.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I'm not saying he's going to be dropping dimes all over the place... but he had pretty good success attacking the deep parts of the field at Wisconsin in '19, especially when targeting Quintez Cephus.

I'd bet his yards/completion were affected by ND's offense more so than his ability and willingness to push the ball down the field. And I'd also bet that he's going to have a deeper group of pass-catchers to target in different parts of the deep thirds than he had at Wiscy, which will result in better numbers, as well.

Pure Kellyesque QB Fuel....