COVID-19

[BleedBlueGold]

So your stance is, from day one, nobody promoted vaccines as no longer making the vaccinated a spreader. This Cleveland Clinic article (that I think is a good primer for most) states variants as the reason for a pivot. No pivot needed if it was never sold that way....

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/c...-19-to-others/
"At one point, we thought that being fully vaccinated meant we could leave our masks behind and go back to the normal that we’ve been longing for."

I really wish we could detour from this land of preventing possibilities and get back to a world of probabilities. It is possible to win the lottery, it is also foolish to plan your life based on that possibility coming to fruition.

The trial conclusions were available for the public to read themselves. Nowhere within the papers did either make the claim that their methodology was to test efficacy in terms of 100% prevention. Their studies were done entirely to gauge the efficacy on severe sickness (ie. requiring hospitalization) and death. What the WHO, the CDC, the mainstream media, politicians, etc did with that info isn't what I'm referencing.

The quote you pulled from that article would hold true if more people were vaccinated. Why is this so hard? The Delta variant would be a complete non issue (as it is to those vaccinated) if more people got the shot.

If you want to move goal posts and twist words so you feel better, that's on you. "Land of preventing possibilities...?" Again, no respectable, unbiased person was making such a claim. There's always risk. It'll never be zero. That's not what Moderna and Pfizer were offering. If you want to have a conversation about the agencies and people listed above, I'll probably agree with you more than disagree. But my OP has been about the raw data and what the vaccines have meant in terms of hospitalization and death. It's irrefutable at this point.

 

[RDU Irish]

Collectivism during a time of crisis is called Solidarity. Standing together to fight a common enemy. OK Castro

WTF are you talking about? Blaming the variant on non-compliance? Unvaccinated people make up like 99.9% of hospitalizations and deaths right now. Yes, viruses mutate to survive. Yes, the delta is essentially what you'd expect out of a mutation. But that doesn't mean it can't be more lethal than other variants (which it is) and it's why it's wreaking havoc on the UNvaccinated population. How is the Pfizer jab uninspiring? Your ignorance is downright spiteful at this point. The annual flu shots btw, are like 35% effective. Idk why you keep bringing up the flu.

Your bolded statement isn't worthy of a response. Inflicting harm for my own selfish benefit? WTF man.

AH - it is the most lethal of the less lethal variants. Can't wait for the next batch of less lethal variants to crown their less lethal champion for us to obsess about and lock down the world, starting with those petri dish children.

We have differing definitions of "havoc" and "crisis"- not even worth discussing there. Also the over 18 unvaccinated crowd picked their poison - let them live (or die) with it. Everyone has had a chance to make their own decision - thankfully there is a 99%+ chance no matter which was chosen you will live. Boggles my mind that is enough to derail society like this to cut in to a fraction of a percent.

I bring up the flu b/c it is more dangerous to children, who you apparently don't GAF about with tens of thousands more suicides in the last 18 months for the 18 and under crowd versus a couple hundred C19 deaths almost exclusively amongst the terminally ill. Why not the same level of concern and precaution (and MANDATES) for the flu shot which is a substantially more dangerous disease for children? It is cognitive dissonance on a pathological level. And that 35% efficacy you claim for the flu shot discounts the reduced level of severity if you do get it - you moved that goal post not me. I'm sure there is a study or two out there showing how flu vaccinated folks fare better/worse/same as unvaccinated as far as hospitalizations and death.

 

[RDU Irish]

Sure and the government can provide at no cost so everyone has an id to vote. Perfect.

I bet 0% of politicians would support that trade off but 75% of the population would.

 

[NDPhilly]

For the totalitarian, pro-mandate crowd in here - are you ok with getting mandated to get a booster? The first groups that got the vaccines are already past 6 months since their second shot. Shouldn’t they be mandated since their vaccine is wearing off? Wouldn’t they be selfish for putting us at risk if they don’t?

 

[NDPhilly]

Lol every study I just posted - deleted again. Wild.

I’m not a believer in ivermectin but the way those on the Left instinctually censor any dissenting opinion is disgusting.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

AH - it is the most lethal of the less lethal variants. Can't wait for the next batch of less lethal variants to crown their less lethal champion for us to obsess about and lock down the world, starting with those petri dish children.

We have differing definitions of "havoc" and "crisis"- not even worth discussing there. Also the over 18 unvaccinated crowd picked their poison - let them live (or die) with it. Everyone has had a chance to make their own decision - thankfully there is a 99%+ chance no matter which was chosen you will live. Boggles my mind that is enough to derail society like this to cut in to a fraction of a percent.

I bring up the flu b/c it is more dangerous to children, who you apparently don't GAF about with tens of thousands more suicides in the last 18 months for the 18 and under crowd versus a couple hundred C19 deaths almost exclusively amongst the terminally ill. Why not the same level of concern and precaution (and MANDATES) for the flu shot which is a substantially more dangerous disease for children? It is cognitive dissonance on a pathological level. And that 35% efficacy you claim for the flu shot discounts the reduced level of severity if you do get it - you moved that goal post not me. I'm sure there is a study or two out there showing how flu vaccinated folks fare better/worse/same as unvaccinated as far as hospitalizations and death.

This is pointless.

 

[IrishLax]

Can a moderator confirm? Are we really deleting links that Razor is sighting?

Yeah we're 100% deleting Razors posts. I stated as much quite clearly. He's done posting in this thread, others -- on both sides -- are toeing the line. He's welcome to post whatever he wants in the Politics section. But this thread is not supposed to be some Wild West of politics and misinformation.

We're not going to have people saying veritably false things or conspiracy theories in a thread that shows up on the front page. We have been getting an increasingly large number of complaints. The choices are either move this thread to Politics or start cleaning it up, and we chose the latter.

 

[IrishLax]

Lol every study I just posted - deleted again. Wild.

You were specifically told you were done posting in this thread. No one is even reading the content of your posts, just deleting them by default.

Go post whatever you want in the Politics section. If you want to make a thread called "COVID-19 -- What Big Pharma Doesn't Want You to Know!" we don't give a shit. But it's taking way too much of our time to police what's on the front page.

 

[ACamp1900]

Honestly,… this is kind of horseshit. Someone posting ‘misinformation and conspiracies’ about Covid meds in a thread about Covid is deleted without it even being read (as admitted). Yet ‘misinformation and conspiracies’ about Republican intentions is dropped in the same thread and y’all just move right along like it remotely belongs. This perceived self righteousness by certain members of the admin group is a huge reason I cut back posting here and may frankly just move on entirely. I’d simply ask you enforce your own rules on yourselves please.

 

[IrishLax]

For the totalitarian, pro-mandate crowd in here - are you ok with getting mandated to get a booster? The first groups that got the vaccines are already past 6 months since their second shot. Shouldn’t they be mandated since their vaccine is wearing off? Wouldn’t they be selfish for putting us at risk if they don’t?

Yeah, I'd probably be fine with mandated boosters.

I dunno, I have a really hard time understanding why being "forced" to get a vaccine is a big deal when people have been "forced" to get vaccines since the early 1900s. For some reason, that wasn't really a problem for most until 2021. It seems rooted in either the idea that 1) vaccines are unsafe 2) COVID doesn't warrant a vaccine. I (mostly) disagree with #1, and I think that #2 is a more complex topic.

I care more about forced mask mandates, gathering restrictions, etc. Those bother me more than getting a vaccine.

 

[IrishLax]

Honestly,… this is kind of horseshit. Someone posting ‘misinformation and conspiracies’ about Covid meds in a thread about Covid is deleted without it even being read (as admitted). Yet a misinformation conspiracy post about Republican intentions is dropped in a foodie thread and y’all just move right along. This perceived self righteousness by certain members of the admin group is a huge reason I cut back posting here and may frankly just love on entirely. I’d simply ask you enforce your own rules on yourselves please.

Where did this happen? I will delete it.

Generally speaking, unless something is reported, it should not be assumed anyone even read it.

 

[notredomer23]

I feel like a large part people are ignoring is people time and time again have read razors posts/links/videos and when people refuted them with actual facts and data, he refused to engage. At this point he’s just spamming this thread.

 

[RDU Irish]

The trial conclusions were available for the public to read themselves. Nowhere within the papers did either make the claim that their methodology was to test efficacy in terms of 100% prevention. Their studies were done entirely to gauge the efficacy on severe sickness (ie. requiring hospitalization) and death. What the WHO, the CDC, the mainstream media, politicians, etc did with that info isn't what I'm referencing.

The quote you pulled from that article would hold true if more people were vaccinated. Why is this so hard? The Delta variant would be a complete non issue (as it is to those vaccinated) if more people got the shot.

If you want to move goal posts and twist words so you feel better, that's on you. "Land of preventing possibilities...?" Again, no respectable, unbiased person was making such a claim. There's always risk. It'll never be zero. That's not what Moderna and Pfizer were offering. If you want to have a conversation about the agencies and people listed above, I'll probably agree with you more than disagree. But my OP has been about the raw data and what the vaccines have meant in terms of hospitalization and death. It's irrefutable at this point.

If Delta is a non-issue to the vaccinated then so is Alpha for which the vaccine is more effective, what is the problem? People picked their lane - let them drive in it. Why the mandate if your vaccine makes covid a COMPLETE non-issue for you and the other vaccinated folks? But only if "enough' people got the vax? How many, what percentage? Nobody offers any path to freedom here, just ambiguous altruistic goals.

I honestly think the variant talk is more buyers remorse than anything. Efficacy is declining faster than hoped, more vaccinated are getting sick (not ill) when so many sub-optimally informed who vaccinated thought it gave them immunity and now worry about the boogey man giving them the sniffles.

 

[IrishLax]

I feel like a large part people are ignoring is people time and time again have read razors posts/links/videos and when people refuted them with actual facts and data, he refused to engage. At this point he’s just spamming this thread.

This was exactly the issue. He'd say something like "vaccines don't work on other strains" -- and then a bunch of people would say "that's not true" and link irrefutable data to the contrary. Then he'd come back and spam 4 new posts and not even acknowledge it. Rinse and repeat.

A lot of people were getting annoyed, a lot of people complained. We decided to try to clean it up and get people to knock it off. Only Razor just entirely refused to play nice in the sandbox.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

If Delta is a non-issue to the vaccinated then so is Alpha for which the vaccine is more effective, what is the problem? People picked their lane - let them drive in it. Why the mandate if your vaccine makes covid a COMPLETE non-issue for you and the other vaccinated folks? But only if "enough' people got the vax? How many, what percentage? Nobody offers any path to freedom here, just ambiguous altruistic goals.

Do you not see the rippling effect that spikes in case numbers, hospitalizations, and deaths have on your local community? The reason we're back to having conversations about masks and lockdowns and schools are closing one week into the school year is because of these spikes....caused by the variant infecting unvaccinated people. This is my point when I say it's not just about you. People pick their lane - let them drive in is great for many other life choices unrelated to public safety. Your Big Mac isn't potentially putting your neighbor in the hospital. Have at it hoss. Choosing to not get a vaccine because "reasons" IS causing others to get sick, get hospitalized, and/or die. It's not a coincidence that you can see this correlation on a map of the country regarding vaccine rates vs hospitals/death increases.

I honestly think the variant talk is more buyers remorse than anything. Efficacy is declining faster than hoped, more vaccinated are getting sick (not ill) when so many sub-optimally informed who vaccinated thought it gave them immunity and now worry about the boogey man giving them the sniffles.

The breakthrough rate is 0.07%. I'm not sure it's been concluded that it's due to the variant itself or declining antibodies, or both. For me, personally, it doesn't matter at this point. The number for severe illness or death is still almost zero. The breakthrough cases aren't driving the wave of new cases. I'd get a booster if data supported it (which looks to be the case coming out of Israel), but I haven't heard of it being an option for me yet. I got vaccinated late December - early January.

 

[NDPhilly]

Mods need to fucking relax holy shit. Who tf cares what someone posts on IrishEnvy.com, a notre dame football forum. CDC / health officials has been wrong before and will likely be wrong in the future (see lab leak and vaccinated transmission).

 

[RDU Irish]

Yeah, I'd probably be fine with mandated boosters.

I dunno, I have a really hard time understanding why being "forced" to get a vaccine is a big deal when people have been "forced" to get vaccines since the early 1900s. For some reason, that wasn't really a problem for most until 2021. It seems rooted in either the idea that 1) vaccines are unsafe 2) COVID doesn't warrant a vaccine. I (mostly) disagree with #1, and I think that #2 is a more complex topic.

I care more about forced mask mandates, gathering restrictions, etc. Those bother me more than getting a vaccine.

I agree with you. I think #2 is the problem - IMO the vaccines are immensely helpful for most but there is a significant population that really does not need it. It is probably a log scale risk curve of importance starting at 0 for the young and health and off the charts for the morbidly obese 100 year old (who doesn't exist b/c they don't live that long with that health profile). As for #1 - too binary of a choice. Growing children are a different animal than grown adults. Reproductive health can be a different animal too. It can take much longer to assess negatives for these which is why tons of drugs have different approvals for kids and pregnant ladies for example. The vax is less than a year old - how are we assessing impact on fertility, birth defects, etc? I agree it PROBABLY doesn't hurt on these levels as other vaccines don't either. However, I'll let someone else go first and make sure since I don't have any co-morbidities that put me in a place to be overly concerned about the OG.

You really can't see the difference between decades of data on established vaccines versus these rushed to market ones that are not even FDA approved yet? You see no difference between forcing action on someone with as close to 0% risk as is imaginable versus something like polio or smallpox? It seems to me, the reason nobody engages in the discussion of mandating flu shots is because it destroys their narrative on the importance of covid vaccines. Flu is more dangerous kids - so why not mandate masks and social distancing forever amongst those petri dishes? It proved effective in dramatically reducing the flu so why not take this simple action? Is it not worth it to save just one child? As a matter of public health, there should be free flu shots - incentivize and make it easy but don't mandate. We don't even do that for flu which is why the hyperbole over covid just doesn't smell right.

Wake County just announced mask requirement in all public indoor spaces regardless of vaccine status. People were sold "get the vax, lose the mask" and this concept of masking vaccinated people is not going to go over well en mass. Vax rates will drop too - why bother if you aren't scared of the bug? If you haven't done it yet, what is the motivation to do it now?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I agree with you. I think #2 is the problem - IMO the vaccines are immensely helpful for most but there is a significant population that really does not need it. It is probably a log scale risk curve of importance starting at 0 for the young and health and off the charts for the morbidly obese 100 year old (who doesn't exist b/c they don't live that long with that health profile). As for #1 - too binary of a choice. Growing children are a different animal than grown adults. Reproductive health can be a different animal too. It can take much longer to assess negatives for these which is why tons of drugs have different approvals for kids and pregnant ladies for example. The vax is less than a year old - how are we assessing impact on fertility, birth defects, etc? I agree it PROBABLY doesn't hurt on these levels as other vaccines don't either. However, I'll let someone else go first and make sure since I don't have any co-morbidities that put me in a place to be overly concerned about the OG.

You really can't see the difference between decades of data on established vaccines versus these rushed to market ones that are not even FDA approved yet? You see no difference between forcing action on someone with as close to 0% risk as is imaginable versus something like polio or smallpox? It seems to me, the reason nobody engages in the discussion of mandating flu shots is because it destroys their narrative on the importance of covid vaccines. Flu is more dangerous kids - so why not mandate masks and social distancing forever amongst those petri dishes? It proved effective in dramatically reducing the flu so why not take this simple action? Is it not worth it to save just one child? As a matter of public health, there should be free flu shots - incentivize and make it easy but don't mandate. We don't even do that for flu which is why the hyperbole over covid just doesn't smell right.

Wake County just announced mask requirement in all public indoor spaces regardless of vaccine status. People were sold "get the vax, lose the mask" and this concept of masking vaccinated people is not going to go over well en mass. Vax rates will drop too - why bother if you aren't scared of the bug? If you haven't done it yet, what is the motivation to do it now?

I agree with your flu stance but from the perspective of we SHOULD be doing things to mitigate risk of the flu. If more people get the vaccines, practice social distancing and wear masks or stay home if they're sick, didn't have to worry about sick days at work, etc....that would allow things to proceed as normal w/o a mandate. The same can be said for covid vaccines but people are just flat out refusing to get them. You don't have to mandate anything if people actually took a second to think about how their actions are effecting other people and made more responsible, selfless decisions.

I completely disagree with any mask requirement for vaccinated people. It's terrible messaging and it's not supported by any evidence that vaccinated people are the issue during this flare up.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Mods need to fucking relax holy shit. Who tf cares what someone posts on IrishEnvy.com, a notre dame football forum. CDC / health officials has been wrong before and will likely be wrong in the future (see lab leak and vaccinated transmission).

Bingo. The argument being made is that nobody was paying attention to his posts anyhow so no harm no foul. We are censoring someone based upon frustration that his posts clog the forum? He obviously is not trolling, he believes what he posts and for the most part he probably links to studies more than most that post on this thread.

In reality, it might be better if he doesn't post in this thread as anything that he posts is considered garbage and any attempts by other posters to make similar points are automatically dismissed.

I've challenged Razor on some of his posts as his posts are sometimes simplistic or exaggerated. That doesn't mean that his post didn't generate valuable discussion as there are people who may read the thread are seeing the same information on Twitter or other places. Others pointing out where a study or theory may be flawed may result in educating others.

My opinion is that Razor seems to try to oversell some of the info in his posts, almost coming across as a salesman. That doesn't mean some of the information isn't factually correct or contain elements of truth, but I can see why some might choose to immediately dismiss anything that he posts.

I know many of you are frustrated that he doesn't seem willing to read the things that link or watch the videos you link, but I don't think he should be banned from posting in the thread or linking to studies.

 

[RDU Irish]

Do you not see the rippling effect that lockdowns, hysteria and mandates have on your local community? The reason we're back to having conversations about masks and lockdowns and schools are closing one week into the school year is because teachers enjoyed full pay zooming in their PJs. This is my point when I say it's not just about you. People pick their lane - let them drive in is great for many other life choices unrelated to public safety. Your Big Mac isn't potentially putting your neighbor in the hospital. Have at it hoss. Choosing to not get a vaccine because "reasons" IS causing others to get sick, get hospitalized, and/or die. It's not a coincidence that you can see this correlation on a map of the country regarding vaccine rates vs hospitals/death increases.



The breakthrough rate is 0.07%. I'm not sure it's been concluded that it's due to the variant itself or declining antibodies, or both. For me, personally, it doesn't matter at this point. The number for severe illness or death is still almost zero. The breakthrough cases aren't driving the wave of new cases. I'd get a booster if data supported it (which looks to be the case coming out of Israel), but I haven't heard of it being an option for me yet. I got vaccinated late December - early January.

FIFY - Is it possible the cure is worse than the cold - there is incredible collateral damage to most non-retired folks out there. Is it so hard to comprehend that the best way through this may be to run straight through it - stop prolonging the inevitable and rip off the bandaid already. This crisis is real for the co-morbidity crowd who predominantly suck down those Big Macs, the healthy folks don't really have that much to worry about. You might get sick and you will probably get better.

 

[RDU Irish]

I agree with your flu stance but from the perspective of we SHOULD be doing things to mitigate risk of the flu. If more people get the vaccines, practice social distancing and wear masks or stay home if they're sick, didn't have to worry about sick days at work, etc....that would allow things to proceed as normal w/o a mandate. The same can be said for covid vaccines but people are just flat out refusing to get them. You don't have to mandate anything if people actually took a second to think about how their actions are effecting other people and made more responsible, selfless decisions.

I completely disagree with any mask requirement for vaccinated people. It's terrible messaging and it's not supported by any evidence that vaccinated people are the issue during this flare up.

WOAH THERE - I thought we agreed that vaccinated can get and spread the disease and this was common knowledge of all vaccines from day one? And the variants are the reason vaccinated are at risk now! VaRiaNTs!!!!


Make it free and easy - go about your lives. Those who choose not to can suffer the consequences, just like flu vaccines which should also be free as a matter of public health.

The "political" whining is weak sauce. You don't get to play the mandate game without opening the political door. Abortion is OK but you should be held down and given a vaccine (currently experimental) - my body, my choice or not? Vax IDs are essential to human existence but Voter ID is inhumane and racist! (Never mind low vax rates amongst AA community that would make Vax IDs racist). School choice 110% - let the $$ follow the kid. Let me home school with a reputable web based operation rather than the shit show zoom by the seat of your pants at local schools - or (God forbid) pick a private school that somehow meets in person all year without piles of dead kids and teachers everywhere. And the border - flood the border with unvaccinated illegal immigrants but don't even test them on the way in while Biden is threatening to restrict interstate travel if you are unvaccinated? Require the first poke for entry at minimum - I mean that is what you are all demanding of citizens.

 

[RDU Irish]

Honest question back on topic. Has anyone seen any studies if those with 2019/2020 flu vaccinations had meaningfully different Covid outcomes or susceptibilities? Pondered that thought the other day.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Honest question back on topic. Has anyone seen any studies if those with 2019/2020 flu vaccinations had meaningfully different Covid outcomes or susceptibilities? Pondered that thought the other day.

I’m not aware of any but I don’t think the seasonal flu vaccine is the same type of vial component as Covid. Plus the Covid vax is a mnra based vax so I don’t know if the efficacy is influenced by the other. I’m likely wrong though soooo

 

[phork]

Honest question back on topic. Has anyone seen any studies if those with 2019/2020 flu vaccinations had meaningfully different Covid outcomes or susceptibilities? Pondered that thought the other day.

How would it have any effect? Flu vaccines contain pieces of the 2 flus medical experts believe will make their way over here. Covid is not influenza.

 

[IrishLax]

Bingo. The argument being made is that nobody was paying attention to his posts anyhow so no harm no foul. We are censoring someone based upon frustration that his posts clog the forum? He obviously is not trolling, he believes what he posts and for the most part he probably links to studies more than most that post on this thread.

In reality, it might be better if he doesn't post in this thread as anything that he posts is considered garbage and any attempts by other posters to make similar points are automatically dismissed.

I've challenged Razor on some of his posts as his posts are sometimes simplistic or exaggerated. That doesn't mean that his post didn't generate valuable discussion as there are people who may read the thread are seeing the same information on Twitter or other places. Others pointing out where a study or theory may be flawed may result in educating others.

My opinion is that Razor seems to try to oversell some of the info in his posts, almost coming across as a salesman. That doesn't mean some of the information isn't factually correct or contain elements of truth, but I can see why some might choose to immediately dismiss anything that he posts.

I know many of you are frustrated that he doesn't seem willing to read the things that link or watch the videos you link, but I don't think he should be banned from posting in the thread or linking to studies.

It got to the point where on top of people complaining, people started then complaining that the ignore function I guess isn’t working. I get that some people just don’t give a shit what people post, but other people do.

Honestly, it’s impossible to keep everyone happy. The number one thing people used to complain about was politics dominating the front page of the site and people being assholes/trolls in those threads. It’s literally the top reason some people stopped coming to the site and told us so. So then we moved those threads to a subforum.

Razor just doesn’t give a shit, and we told him that’s fine but if he’s got to post in the politics section. No bans, no “censoring”, just keep it off the front page. Seems reasonable? The alternative is we just move the whole thread to politics and y’all can do what you want.

 

[tussin]

COVID, from a public policy perspective, should be over. The vaccine is available to any statistically at-risk individual that needs it. Choose to get the vaccine, or live with the risk of infection. The vaccines are incredibly effective and those that got it are not at risk from the decisions of the unvaccinated. It really shouldn’t be complicated.

The only reason vaccine mandates are even a talking point right now is because the general public and media have no ability to interpret, or are willfully misconstruing, the data. It’s hard to make a serious argument for a national vaccine mandate for a disease that is killing 500 people a day. The cases do not matter at this point if no one is dying.

My wife works on the Moderna vaccine (and she previously worked on the Pfizer one) — the scientific community (not the “experts” on CNN or Fox) thinks most of the discourse and policy on this topic is absurd and counterproductive.

 

[NDPhilly]

COVID, from a public policy perspective, should be over. The vaccine is available to any statistically at-risk individual that needs it. Choose to get the vaccine, or live with then risk of infection. The vaccines are incredibly effective and those that got it are not at risk from the decisions of the unvaccinated. It really shouldn’t be complicated.

The only reason vaccine mandates are even a talking point right now is because the general public and media have no ability to interpret, or are willfully misconstruing, the data. It’s hard to make a serious argument for a national vaccine mandate for a disease that is killing 500 people a day. The cases do not matter at this point if no one is dying.

My wife works on the Moderna vaccine (and she previously worked on the Pfizer one) — the scientific community (not the “experts” on CNN or Fox) thinks most of the discourse and policy on this topic is absurd and counterproductive.

Appreciate the perspective. Does your wife have any opinions on the vaccines for non-at risk people (aka most kids and young adults)? If Covid and its variants are truly endemic, I struggle to see why young people "must" to get vaccinated unless the plan is continued boosters every ~6 months.

 

[BrownerandFry]

Posters fiddle with interpersonal hissy fits while Florida burns up.

Covid is real. Often FATAL.

https://www.google.com/search?q=flo...0l5j0i390l2.5183j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

If you click on the right side of the graph you will see that the Florida new case count on august 13 was

49,745

while the seven day moving average was

21, 681

For people who have studied stat (or who use charts to day trade)

this is terrifying.

I hope it is an anomaly a one off.

But frankly, this is a health crisis. statistics (and the charts in Louisiana and Mississippi are equally terrifying.

For my own part. I am nonplussed by the he said/he said banter.

some people are part of a solution
some narcissists remain part of the problem or the Totality of the Problem.

It is not hyperbolic to say that this is a matter of life and death.

 

[BrownerandFry]

Is this a third world country or America?

https://www.wwltv.com/article/news/...ital/289-b00bc265-fc89-4d94-8e81-e85c84f866f6

Medical care in a parking garage??

 

[Irishize]

COVID, from a public policy perspective, should be over. The vaccine is available to any statistically at-risk individual that needs it. Choose to get the vaccine, or live with then risk of infection. The vaccines are incredibly effective and those that got it are not at risk from the decisions of the unvaccinated. It really shouldn’t be complicated.

The only reason vaccine mandates are even a talking point right now is because the general public and media have no ability to interpret, or are willfully misconstruing, the data. It’s hard to make a serious argument for a national vaccine mandate for a disease that is killing 500 people a day. The cases do not matter at this point if no one is dying.

My wife works on the Moderna vaccine (and she previously worked on the Pfizer one) — the scientific community (not the “experts” on CNN or Fox) thinks most of the discourse and policy on this topic is absurd and counterproductive.

i agree with you when what you say is contained in a silo. The problem is the trickle down effect of non-vaccinated getting this Delta variant and taking up beds in ICUs. This affects folks who now have to cancel or delay their surgery that was previously no problem to schedule. Now if they were willing to stay out of the hospitals then you’re correct…they’d simply be living w/ risk of infection. But it’s not playing out that way. In fact, most of these poor souls are begging for the vaccine only to be told “it’s too late”. My wife’s hospital is offering double the hourly wage to RNs provided they agree not to leave for a better offer. That’s how “in demand” they are currently. It’s not b/c the hospitals all of the sudden realized how underpaid/overworked their RNs may be…it’s b/c they are in desperate need.

My biggest takeaway from COVID is to not get your medical advice from CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, your friends, your neighbors, Twitter, Facebook or any other anecdotal source. Simply asks your HCP(s). If you don’t trust them, then you should fire them and find one you do trust.