COVID-19

[Cackalacky2.0]

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027...arkansas-hospitals-overwhelmed-covid-19-delta

My sister is smack dab in the middle of this. I get daily updates from her. It’s terrible.

 

[BrownerandFry]

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027...arkansas-hospitals-overwhelmed-covid-19-delta

My sister is smack dab in the middle of this. I get daily updates from her. It’s terrible.

I get worried about her unappreciated (except by you and her patients and family) work./

I had some experiences with caregiver fatigue................................................................

I know you are, Cack, but, continue to be good to her
Good to her...



And sometimes the best thing a bro can do is distract her

anything, soap basket, food basket.

fer real. I'm rooting for you and her

Paul

 

[tussin]

Appreciate the perspective. Does your wife have any opinions on the vaccines for non-at risk people (aka most kids and young adults)? If Covid and its variants are truly endemic, I struggle to see why young people "must" to get vaccinated unless the plan is continued boosters every ~6 months.

Her view is that everyone should consider their risk profile and make a decision and it should not be vilified.

We don’t have children, but have discussed this and decided that we probably wouldn’t have our theoretical child get the vaccine. Something like 350 people under 18 have died from COVID out of a population of 80M and I believe almost all had serious comorbidities. The data also have not demonstrated that children are a major vector of transmission.

 

[Irishize]

Sad but true. Time to move forward and get on with life.


AstraZeneca lead scientist says Delta makes mass testing pointless in UK

By Sarah Knapton

August 11, 2021 — 12.07pm



https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...-testing-pointless-in-uk-20210811-p58hpe.html

 

[notredomer23]

Posters fiddle with interpersonal hissy fits while Florida burns up.

Covid is real. Often FATAL.

https://www.google.com/search?q=flo...0l5j0i390l2.5183j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

If you click on the right side of the graph you will see that the Florida new case count on august 13 was

49,745

while the seven day moving average was

21, 681

For people who have studied stat (or who use charts to day trade)

this is terrifying.

I hope it is an anomaly a one off.

But frankly, this is a health crisis. statistics (and the charts in Louisiana and Mississippi are equally terrifying.

For my own part. I am nonplussed by the he said/he said banter.

some people are part of a solution
some narcissists remain part of the problem or the Totality of the Problem.

It is not hyperbolic to say that this is a matter of life and death.

Florida doesn’t report everyday. So the 49K is for multiple days. There numbers are still terrible, but not to that degree.

 

[NorthDakota]

COVID, from a public policy perspective, should be over. The vaccine is available to any statistically at-risk individual that needs it. Choose to get the vaccine, or live with the risk of infection. The vaccines are incredibly effective and those that got it are not at risk from the decisions of the unvaccinated. It really shouldn’t be complicated.

The only reason vaccine mandates are even a talking point right now is because the general public and media have no ability to interpret, or are willfully misconstruing, the data. It’s hard to make a serious argument for a national vaccine mandate for a disease that is killing 500 people a day. The cases do not matter at this point if no one is dying.

My wife works on the Moderna vaccine (and she previously worked on the Pfizer one) — the scientific community (not the “experts” on CNN or Fox) thinks most of the discourse and policy on this topic is absurd and counterproductive.

If you look at the vaccines administered per day, it peaked right around the government getting cold feet with J&J. Wonder how that did/did not impact people getting shots.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Her view is that everyone should consider their risk profile and make a decision and it should not be vilified.

We don’t have children, but have discussed this and decided that we probably wouldn’t have our theoretical child get the vaccine. Something like 350 people under 18 have died from COVID out of a population of 80M and I believe almost all had serious comorbidities. The data also have not demonstrated that children are a major vector of transmission.

Disagree with the first statement. I've gone round and round with RDU about that. 99.9% of hospitalizations right now are the unvaccinated. They made their decision, but their decision is directly effecting the lives of those who are their care takers, and those who are trying to get generalized medical care but can't because hospitals are declining surgeries and diverting patients. Not to mention the economic effect in their local communities and the potential risk it poses to schools (agree or disagree w/ school policies, but it's still worth considering).

People have this false sense security when assessing personal risk. "Hospitalization and death rate of Covid is so low, why would I worry about that?" That's true, except in local communities experiencing the outbreaks. Using national data doesn't apply. The risk is actually much higher when your town, your church, etc are having outbreaks.

I do somewhat agree with your take on kids but again, what is the local data? That's the important number. If your school has an outbreak, the odds of your child getting sick goes up which increases the risk to a child who potentially has a comorbidity. I am curious why you and your wife would choose (if applicable) to not vaccinate your children. Do you not trust the vaccines? Worried about long term side effects? Not worried about the risk of them getting/dying of Covid? We've spoken to two pediatricians, both of whom said they don't see a downside in doing it but at least acknowledge the risk of severe illness or death is basically zero locally at the moment. They do recommend adults get it but suggest the data isn't clear on children being at extreme risk. They've essentially said, "kids should mask and be careful in large group settings indoors, and when the vaccine is available, we should consider it....but if local community isn't experience high numbers, it's also okay to be less concerned." Paraphrasing.

I just saw your other post:

Again, we need to focus on our local areas. 500 people dying nationally a day is a low number relative to the population size. But if 25% of those people are coming from a single area of the country...makes sense for that particular area to have policies to get that under control, don't you think?

The only reason I've been on the side of national vaccine mandate is because of precedent. I don't get why people are getting so bent over this one. The data shows it works.

I agree we shouldn't let "experts" on CNN or FOX or Facebook create our basis for policy making. Even the CDC has had it's fair share of missteps during this. But I also think that only using national data to influence our decisions is a poor choice too when so much is dependent on local data.

 

[tussin]

I am curious why you and your wife would choose (if applicable) to not vaccinate your children. Do you not trust the vaccines? Worried about long term side effects? Not worried about the risk of them getting/dying of Covid? We've spoken to two pediatricians, both of whom said they don't see a downside in doing it but at least acknowledge the risk of severe illness or death is basically zero locally at the moment.

You basically answered your own question... why give a child any type of drug or medication if it is medically unnecessary given relative risk? Of course we "trust" the vaccines, we both got it and my wife works on it in a professional capacity but every single drug has side effects and this is no different.

Re: significant long-term side effects, almost certainly not but the clinical trials are on-going. My wife was also pregnant previously and elected not to get the vaccine at that point for similar reasons.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Good discussion recently here and I applaud all of you. Thank you (sincerely).

Maybe this is a hand grenade and I dont INTEND it to be but this disccussion is brought up personal responsibility/personal freedom and other aspects of a libertarian approach to epidemiology. I find the "my rights stop at your nose" approach to epidemiology to be erroneous and dangerous to people you share common space with. Your (general you) decision to not get vaccinated is your decision. But you and your unvacinated family can get and pass on to others (many others as I recounted in my previous personal anectodes of an unvaccianted women infecting 22 people in her immediate family oribt plus sending her immunocompromised husband over the edge to death and my sister working directly in the line of fire in a overburdend Mississppi healthcare system). I'd like to hope that these people would take extra precautions to not spread the disease but it seems to me like concern for your fellow citizen is not really there and its more personal freedom than ensuring the well being of your common space inhabitors.

My sisters hopsital system cant take on patients who need other healthcare becasue 100% of their beds are full with 99.5% unvaccianted folks (includes infants and children with no comorbidities). My sister had a unvax'd male (45 yo) come in in severe respiratory distress and wouldnt even allow them to intubate him and set him up on treatment drugs/oxygen becasue he distrusted the healthcare plan they told him he needed. He died a few hours later. They are now losing nurses and doctors to getting sick with covid and they are almost exclusively contracting it from their patients and shear volume of exposure time/incidents. I dont know how to rectify that other than listening to our HC providers and theri reccomendations and study study study this thing.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

You basically answered your own question... why give a child any type of drug or medication if it is medically unnecessary given relative risk? Of course we "trust" the vaccines, we both got it and my wife works on it in a professional capacity but every single drug has side effects and this is no different.

Re: significant long-term side effects, almost certainly not but the clinical trials are on-going. My wife was also pregnant previously and elected not to get the vaccine at that point for similar reasons.

Thanks for answering. Regarding kids, I've basically been in this boat as well. The adults (especially in hot zones) I've had issues with when it comes to vaccine refusal. What's been so irritating is the data on children during this whole pandemic has been almost nonexistent. I've tried only following certain people during the past 18 months and held their opinions higher than the CNN-type "experts," and even they readily admit to the lack of data regarding children. We have a 6 year old and 2 year old, so we've had time to be patient considering the fact that the vaccines are even an option for them at the moment.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

You basically answered your own question... why give a child any type of drug or medication if it is medically unnecessary given relative risk? Of course we "trust" the vaccines, we both got it and my wife works on it in a professional capacity but every single drug has side effects and this is no different.

Re: significant long-term side effects, almost certainly not but the clinical trials are on-going. My wife was also pregnant previously and elected not to get the vaccine at that point for similar reasons.

Do you hold this same philosophy regarding vaccines required by state law to enter k-12 schools? I mean we are now seeing small pox and polio start to show up again becasue a small population of antivaxers. It was pretty much eradicated in the past due to prescribed vaccines.

 

[TorontoGold]

Good discussion recently here and I applaud all of you. Thank you (sincerely).

Maybe this is a hand grenade and I dont INTEND it to be but this disccussion is brought up personal resposnibility/personal freedom and other aspects aof a libertarian approach to epidemiology. I find the "my rights stop at your nose" approach to epidemiology to be erroneous and dangerous to people you share common space with. Your (general you) decision to not get vaccinated is your decision. But you and your unvacinated family can get and pass on to others (many others as I recounted in my previous personal anectodes of an unvaccianted women infecting 22 people in her immediate family oribt plus sending her immunocompromised husband over the edge to death and my sister working directly in the line of fire in a overburdend Mississppi healthcare system). I'd like to hope that these people would take extra precautions to not spread the disease but it seems to me like concern for your fellow citizen is not really there and its more personal freedom than ensuring the well being of your common space inhabitors.

My sisters hopsital system cant take on patients who need other healthcare becasue 100% of their beds are full with 99.5% unvaccianted folks (includes infants and children with no comorbidities). MY sister had a unvax'd male (45 yo) come in in sever respiratory distress and would even allow them to intubate him and set him up on treatment drugs/oxygen becasue he distrusted the healthcare plan they told him he needed. He died a few hours later. They are now losign nurses and doctors to getting sick with covid and they arealmost exclusively contracting it from their patients and shear volume of exposure time/incidents. I dont know how to rectify that other than listening to our HC providers.

Cack, has your sister noticed an increase in people passing at home? I would figure that people who distrust hospitals/health care wouldn't go into a hospital to seek treatment? Also, the costs associated with going into a hospital might sway some people?

Similar to your 99.5% figure, we're seeing similar %'s for our hospitals. My friends at some of the downtown TO hospitals are drafting plans for field hospitals in the fall/winter. Imagine sitting in a cold parking lot in 14F degree weather? Yikes.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Good discussion recently here and I applaud all of you. Thank you (sincerely).

Maybe this is a hand grenade and I dont INTEND it to be but this disccussion is brought up personal resposnibility/personal freedom and other aspects aof a libertarian approach to epidemiology. I find the "my rights stop at your nose" approach to epidemiology to be erroneous and dangerous to people you share common space with. Your (general you) decision to not get vaccinated is your decision. But you and your unvacinated family can get and pass on to others (many others as I recounted in my previous personal anectodes of an unvaccianted women infecting 22 people in her immediate family oribt plus sending her immunocompromised husband over the edge to death and my sister working directly in the line of fire in a overburdend Mississppi healthcare system). I'd like to hope that these people would take extra precautions to not spread the disease but it seems to me like concern for your fellow citizen is not really there and its more personal freedom than ensuring the well being of your common space inhabitors.

My sisters hopsital system cant take on patients who need other healthcare becasue 100% of their beds are full with 99.5% unvaccianted folks (includes infants and children with no comorbidities). MY sister had a unvax'd male (45 yo) come in in sever respiratory distress and would even allow them to intubate him and set him up on treatment drugs/oxygen becasue he distrusted the healthcare plan they told him he needed. He died a few hours later. They are now losign nurses and doctors to getting sick with covid and they arealmost exclusively contracting it from their patients and shear volume of exposure time/incidents. I dont know how to rectify that other than listening to our HC providers.

Completely agree, as mentioned in my earlier posts. Common good public health in a well-functioning, developed society should not always default to "me and my freedoms above all else." I feel it's important to never let the pendulum swing too far in any one direction, but there absolutely are ways for us to be better as citizens. And it starts with the minimum consideration for how your freedom to choose a pathway directly effects your local community, etc.

Cack, does your sister have any info on the infants and children being hospitalized?

My hospital is full as well. Last I knew we had zero children admitted. 100% unvaccinated status among in-patients. 75% of the people presenting to the ER and radiology are testing positive. Elective surgeries are on hold.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Thanks for answering. Regarding kids, I've basically been in this boat as well. The adults (especially in hot zones) I've had issues with when it comes to vaccine refusal. What's been so irritating is the data on children during this whole pandemic has been almost nonexistent. I've tried only following certain people during the past 18 months and held their opinions higher than the CNN-type "experts," and even they readily admit to the lack of data regarding children. We have a 6 year old and 2 year old, so we've had time to be patient considering the fact that the vaccines are even an option for them at the moment.

Our kids are nearly the same ages: 6.75, 5, 2.5

There is nothing out there about this age group re: COVID infection rate, long-COVID, etc. We are in no hurry to make a decision so we're playing it safe, got ourselves vaccinated and minimize the amount of time in public places. We're moving back to masking as well.

I'm not an at-risk person. I vaccinated to minimize the chance that I'm a spreader. Barely sub-40, no comorbidities, not overweight (I could lose 8 lbs though).

I wonder what the Venn diagram would look like of people who hate higher taxes/public services/universal healthcare and those who aren't vaccinated.....

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Cack, has your sister noticed an increase in people passing at home? I would figure that people who distrust hospitals/health care wouldn't go into a hospital to seek treatment? Also, the costs associated with going into a hospital might sway some people?

Similar to your 99.5% figure, we're seeing similar %'s for our hospitals. My friends at some of the downtown TO hospitals are drafting plans for field hospitals in the fall/winter. Imagine sitting in a cold parking lot in 14F degree weather? Yikes.

I havent expressly asked her that but generally what is happening is people wont go get tested, then they get sick and go down quickly prompting a EMS response or they go not htinking its COVID related. These people come to the hospital and wait (as long as 48 hrs according to my sister in my previous post) where they are priotized according to a rapid test and symptoms. once its diagnosed she has had peopl eoutright say COVID isnt whats wrong and they need to figure out WHAT IS wrong with them. Doctors and nurse both cant convince these people COVID is what s worng even with test resutls and their presenting symptoms. So to clarify their distrust in COVID is far greater than say something else.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Completely agree, as mentioned in my earlier posts. Common good public health in a well-functioning, developed society should not always default to "me and my freedoms above all else." I feel it's important to never let the pendulum swing too far in any one direction, but there absolutely are ways for us to be better as citizens. And it starts with the minimum consideration for how your freedom to choose a pathway directly effects your local community, etc.

Cack, does your sister have any info on the infants and children being hospitalized?

My hospital is full as well. Last I knew we had zero children admitted. 100% unvaccinated status among in-patients. 75% of the people presenting to the ER and radiology are testing positive. Elective surgeries are on hold.

I dont have exact numbers but I checked in with her yesterday. She said she had a decent day in her ward but other local nurses had bad days recently where they lost multiple people and a couple elementary school age kids and two infants. (They have a message group where lcoal nurses and doctors share realtime experiences and resource availability info just to try and help each other out. This was necessary because they werent able to get info moderated by MS government fast enough).

FTR im trying not ot provide biased info but this is on the ground info from my sister in a COVID ward in rural MS. Take it FWIW.

 

[tussin]

Do you hold this same philosophy regarding vaccines required by state law to enter k-12 schools? I mean we are now seeing small pox and polio start to show up again becasue a small population of antivaxers. It was pretty much eradicated in the past due to prescribed vaccines.

In our opinion, it's case-by-case depending on the disease. Yes, of course children should get vaccinated for polio, but do you need one for chickenpox? Probably not. Working in vaccines, my wife abhors the anti-vax movement, but that doesn't mean every vaccine should be mandated.

 

[NDPhilly]

NYC's indoor vaccine mandate starts tomorrow. Curious to see how many venues follow through with it. How is a hostess at a restaurant going to know what the hell she is looking for on a vaccination card?

Can't wait to move to Miami

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

In our opinion, it's case-by-case depending on the disease. Yes, of course children should get vaccinated for polio, but do you need one for chickenpox? Probably not. Working in vaccines, my wife abhors the anti-vax movement, but that doesn't mean every vaccine should be mandated.

Interesting. Vaccines for CP have decreased infection cases by 90% since implemented and reduces significantly the resulting symptoms of those infected. Is your opinion based on lethality or just the probability of you or your child getting it? Because if more people stop getting vaccinated for CP then the probability of exposure goes up and case #s increase as well (like we are already seeing wth polio and smll pox)?

 

[tussin]

Interesting. Vaccines for CP have decreased infection cases by 90% since implemented and reduces significantly the resulting symptoms of those infected. Is your opinion based on lethality or just the probability of you or your child getting it? Because if more people stop getting vaccinated for CP then the probability of exposure goes up and case #s increase as well (like we are already seeing wth polio and smll pox)?

It's an assessment of lethality. The death rate of chickenpox is 1 / 50,000+. I had chickenpox, my sister had chickenpox... we stayed home, drank Gatorade, and watched TV. It's not a big deal.

Polio and small pox on the other hand are extremely deadly / debilitating diseases that are very contagious... vaccination is a no brainer.

 

[PerthDomer]

One in 100 unvaccinated kids w chickenpox gets hospitalized. If you catch it in adolescence or later it gets really nasty. For each disease we vaccinate against the odds of having a serious infection unvaccinated is pretty low. Add them all up we're talking a lot of pain and suffering.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

It's an assessment of lethality. The death rate of chickenpox is 1 / 50,000+. I had chickenpox, my sister had chickenpox... we stayed home, drank Gatorade, and watched TV. It's not a big deal.

Polio and small pox on the other hand are extremely deadly / debilitating diseases that are very contagious... vaccination is a no brainer.

If I understand correctly we currently have about 400,000 cases per year with current vaccine levels where it was 4,000,000 prior to mandated vaccinations. Based on the current vacciantions, individuals who develop CP have very mild syptoms generally so is it acceptable to you to not mandate this vaccine and allow upwards of 4million people per year to get the deisease and have a greater likely hood of developing severe symptoms (especially adults) who were never vaccinated?

Its my understanding CP affects adults much worse and adults are 25x and infants 4x greater risk of dying form CP than children. The vaccine given to school age kids (primary spreader of CP) is to protect others just as much as the person who receives it. To me it seem sthe reasoning to issue vaccines isnt only just to keep your singular child from getting it and wathcing TV over a couple of days. Seems a bit bigger of a deal to me.

 

[tussin]

If I understand correctly we currently have about 400,000 cases per year with current vaccine levels where it was 4,000,000 prior to mandated vaccinations. Based on the current vacciantions, individuals who develop CP have very mild syptoms generally so is it acceptable to you to not mandate this vaccine and allow upwards of 4million people per year to get the deisease and have a greater likely hood of developing severe symptoms (especially adults) who were never vaccinated?

Its my understanding CP affects adults much worse and adults are 25x and infants 4x greater risk of dying form CP than children. The vaccine given to school age kids (primary spreader of CP) is to protect others just as much as the person who receives it. To me it seem sthe reasoning to issue vaccines isnt only just to keep your singular child from getting it and wathcing TV over a couple of days. Seems a bit bigger of a deal to me.

This is essentially the same discussion around the COVID vaccine except with a much less deadly disease. The varicella vaccine is available to any at risk adult who is inclined to get it given the disease profile, and CP poses extremely little risk to children. So if you feel that mandates are warranted for a disease that kills 100 people each year in the US, then you and I are just going to disagree on when vaccine mandates are warranted.

In my view, there are two groups when it comes to vaccines: 1) children (who can't make a decision for themselves) and 2) adults. For diseases that are especially damaging to children then it absolutely makes sense to mandate that those children get the vaccine. For adults, mandates make little sense because everyone has access to a vaccine and can make a determination for themselves. The only argument I've read here that makes some sense re: mandates is if hospitals are getting completely overrun with patients to the point where beds aren't available for other sick people. But I believe this is a transient problem that does not warrant governmental vaccine mandates.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

This is essentially the same discussion around the COVID vaccine except with a much less deadly disease. The varicella vaccine is available to any at risk adult who is inclined to get it given the disease profile, and CP poses extremely little risk to children. So if you feel that mandates are warranted for a disease that kills 100 people each year in the US, then you and I are just going to disagree on when vaccine mandates are warranted.

In my view, there are two groups when it comes to vaccines: 1) children (who can't make a decision for themselves) and 2) adults. For diseases that are especially damaging to children then it absolutely makes sense to mandate that those children get the vaccine. For adults, mandates make little sense because everyone has access to a vaccine and can make a determination for themselves. The only argument I've read hear that makes some sense re: mandates is if hospitals are getting completely overrun with patients to the point where beds aren't available for other sick people. But I believe this is a transient problem that does not warrant governmental vaccine mandates.

It’s this “determination for themselves” is where the issue is for me. As I said above the libertarian approach seems anti productive to prevention of spreading diseases. I appreciate your answers and I’m not going to press further but this is where my conundrum lies. Communicable diseases are opportunistic and they will find the path of least resistance.

If you are unvaccinated and you get me sick…. regardless of the disease or symptoms that arise, it wasn’t my choice to receive the disease from you. Where do my personal freedoms to not get your disease start and stop? Especially if I am immunocompromised. IMO I’m going to default to protecting myself and my fellow citizens (passively and actively) because I don’t want to get it or spread it.

I mean for example if you have Covid and you come onto my property and into my house and get my family sick, are you responsible for that? Ami responsible because I let an unknown sick person into my house? How about publically? Are owners of private businesses responsible for keeping their patrons safe? Does it matter? IMO it does matter for public and private spaces. If I’m a business owner and I’m responsible for employee and patron safety a mask and vaccine mandate would be welcome news. Id also accept that for all public especially govement buildings. I have zero problem with that knowing that at bare minimum the people in the building with me are limiting as much as they can their exposure pathways.

I’m not expecting answers just asking questions for discussions sake.

 

[PerthDomer]

RSV kills about 42 kids a year in the US, most of whom are preemies or otherwise ill and under 2. If we could develop an effective vaccine it'd be huge for pediatrics. Very few kids who go to ICU's die even though they get quite ill. RSV admissions pretty universally survive, though it's not uncommon for a small baby to spend several weeks on a vent. But preventing the thousands of admissions would be a huge benefit to society.

Similarly for COVID most kids are fine, but if everyone gets COVID hundreds of kids die and the hospitals blow up (plus you risk a variant better at infecting them).

Similarly for chicken pox most parents would prefer to avoid spending a week away from work, schools shutting down, the chance their kid land s in the hospital with pneumonia or cerebellar ataxia, or the chance they end up infecting an organ transplant candidate who then dies.

Also, less than 1% of people who get polio suffer any adverse effects. with modern technology we could keep most alive and somewhat functional.

The kicker though is do you support universal rubella vaccination? Rubella kills 0 people. The issue is if you get it while pregnant you likely have a miscarriage or a messed up baby. But we vaccinate kids who are at 0 risk prior to pregnancy to get herd immunity. The justification for that is entirely a public health one.

 

[PerthDomer]

Also, my friend in Savannah is having to get kids air lifted out of the region because there are 0 PICU beds. This is how my body my choice is impacting other people.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

FWIW, all of the pop up ads on my side for this site are all related to chicken pox and shingles medicines LMAO.

 

[RDU Irish]

How would it have any effect? Flu vaccines contain pieces of the 2 flus medical experts believe will make their way over here. Covid is not influenza.

Isn't is possible the flu shot helps bolster the immune system for a better covid response? As I go through people I know who have had it - those who were not flu vaccinated fared worst. Anecdotal I know but why I ponder the question.

 

[PerthDomer]

Isn't is possible the flu shot helps bolster the immune system for a better covid response? As I go through people I know who have had it - those who were not flu vaccinated fared worst. Anecdotal I know but why I ponder the question.

People who get the flu shot tend to be more educated and have better connections to the health care system (and later in the pandemic more likely to get vaccinated). Traits that make you more likely to get the flu shot make you less likely to get severe covid. There's not a mechanistic explanation for the flu vaccine helping vs covid (there are some theoretical studies stating an active flu infection could make it harder for covid to get in. Then again in the post infectious immunoparalysis phase you'd be worse off).

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Isn't is possible the flu shot helps bolster the immune system for a better covid response? As I go through people I know who have had it - those who were not flu vaccinated fared worst. Anecdotal I know but why I ponder the question.

I have googled my two favorie medical web sources and also asked my sister and the consensus from Harved med and Johns hopkins and her is that no it doesnt help relative to Covid but will help in keeping normal flu related illness out of the hospital to aid the burden from all the COVID patients. TIFWIW.