Trump Presidency

[TorontoGold]

All your doing is making a more compelling case for calling it a political persecution.

So FBI investigating Hillary was political? Should prosecutors just ignore crimes? Strange for a GOP'r to say politicians are above the law.

 

[NorthDakota]

So FBI investigating Hillary was political? Should prosecutors just ignore crimes? Strange for a GOP'r to say politicians are above the law.

Its easy to justify an FBI investigation of a Democrat politician during a Democrat presidency. Same would go for a Republican politician/presidency.

I'm as law and order as the next GOP type. But I'm not real keen on blatantly political prosecutions because that becomes problematic real quick. If they do it to everyone behaving this way, I can fully get behind that.

Regarding Hillary, I didn't feel remotely bad. when I was with DoD, there is a good chance I'd have went to federal prison for doing what she did. Frankly, she might have enjoyed going to the slammer. Always got an Eleanor Roosevelt vibe from her anyway. Orange was the New Black around that time.

Regarding Trump stuff, I presume everyone has known for a long time how he rolls and it was never a problem. Democrats gladly took his donations, guy was a reality TV star, hell the dude has a board game at my parents house sitting in the basement.

Why did they start snooping around when they did? Why was it a problem? New York's Attorney General campaigned on going after him as well I believe. Nobody actually gives a shit what he allegedly did with taxes. If they did, this stuff would have happened decades ago. This is about a guy who for better or worse tipped over an apple cart.

 

[Irish#1]

There wouldn't be anything to "get" if he/his organization/people around him weren't such sloppy criminals. It's not hard.

So would you prefer charges not to be filed? "He's famous, let him off" lol

"Nobody would care if Hunter Biden was just some meth head who's dad is rich, instead of being a Biden" - See how bad the argument sounds? We're better than that.

I didn't say charges shouldn't be filed. I will repeat myself. This happens all the time and criminal charges for these actions are almost always negotiated out to a fine and repayment. Why should this be different?

Who's going after Hunter Biden? What did I miss?

 

[drayer54]

Its easy to justify an FBI investigation of a Democrat politician during a Democrat presidency. Same would go for a Republican politician/presidency.

I'm as law and order as the next GOP type. But I'm not real keen on blatantly political prosecutions because that becomes problematic real quick. If they do it to everyone behaving this way, I can fully get behind that.

Regarding Hillary, I didn't feel remotely bad. when I was with DoD, there is a good chance I'd have went to federal prison for doing what she did. Frankly, she might have enjoyed going to the slammer. Always got an Eleanor Roosevelt vibe from her anyway. Orange was the New Black around that time.

Regarding Trump stuff, I presume everyone has known for a long time how he rolls and it was never a problem. Democrats gladly took his donations, guy was a reality TV star, hell the dude has a board game at my parents house sitting in the basement.

Why did they start snooping around when they did? Why was it a problem? New York's Attorney General campaigned on going after him as well I believe. Nobody actually gives a shit what he allegedly did with taxes. If they did, this stuff would have happened decades ago. This is about a guy who for better or worse tipped over an apple cart.

What pissed me off with Hillary is that she was given special treatment. My security clearance would have been yanked and I would have been facing federal consequences had I been so brazenly sloppy with classified material. She never should have been able to hold a clearance again.

 

[Irish#1]

No one would be talking about Hunter Biden if he weren't Joe's son. And while we defunded the tax police under Trump, the name of the game in white collar crime is to make high profile examples of abuses you can't prosecute everyone for. If a few people start going away for lying on their taxes, the risk/benefit of tax fraud shifts and rich people pay their taxes more often.

The issue people aren't talking about is if the Trump Org is found guilty of fraud, Deutche Bank will be able to demand their loan back early. The Trump org has issues getting loans due to issues with paying creditors in the past. In their line of work having easy access to cheap credit/cash flow is very important.

I get that, but this has been going on for decades and prosecution almost never happens, so why now? The white collar crime that normally gets prosecuted tends to deal with people like Madoff who took millions and billions from private citizens and not because they manipulated the tax code.

 

[Irish#1]

Everyone should roll their eyes at this.

The Trump Organization’s Political Prosecution

When settlement talks begin, you can expect Mr. Trump’s political pull to be on the table too.

Mr. Trump’s lawyer said, probably accurately, that such complaints usually are settled as a civil matter with the Internal Revenue Service for the reasons alluded to above. The IRS cares mainly about getting maximum money at least cost for its enforcement efforts. Not so elected officials such as Mr. Vance and Ms. James. If the prosecution is a giant net loser financially for the state of New York, that’s fine with them.

If the charges are right, among the expenses Mr. Trump picked up for his employees to maximize the bang for his compensation buck were school tuition, a company Mercedes, and free apartments for employees and their family members.

Mr. Trump would have dispensed these goodies because in New York City, where the top cumulative income-tax rate is 52%, he could cut in half the cost of providing after-tax compensation to a high-level employee.

Tax systems, which both fund the government and shape the incentives that drive the private economy, are too important not to be regarded with extreme practicality. Every tax system operates on the margin between people’s desire to live within the law and their incentive to cheat, which smart tax designers keep in mind.

You will be right to ask: If Mr. Trump is now to be held to this standard of tax honesty, will others? When and if a grand jury gets around to indicting him for offenses reportedly related to how buildings were valued for tax and banking purposes, the same questions will simmer. As the New York Times reported in 2018 after digging through a decade of Trump family tax data, the Trumps use the same appraisers, tax lawyers and accountants that other New York real-estate families use, albeit the others are not so imprudent as to put their heads in the tiger’s mouth by contesting with the nation’s political class for its top prize.

It wouldn’t be right to leave this subject without a passing note. On the same behavior that is rightly treated as offensive if Mr. Trump does it, Congress built the distortion that many diagnose as a root cause of our healthcare-financing maladies: employers being allowed to hand out health coverage to employees as untaxed compensation, which ends up inflating the price of healthcare and disproportionately benefits wealthier taxpayers.

The likelihood that Mr. Trump, for all his incentive to signal otherwise, would run for president again always seemed to me low and seems lower now. His investment in the stolen-election lie struck me as the opportunism of the checkers player, without a plan. He realized if he backpedaled and ran up the white flag his audience would drift away. His ability to reward and punish by mobilizing his supporters would disappear. His way into the minds of 40% of voters would be a power officeholders and office-seekers would no longer have to fear (it’s eroding anyway thanks to the social media freeze-out). I expect when Mr. Trump enters settlement talks with his latest legal assailants, he intends this ability to make trouble or refrain from making trouble will be a bargaining chip on

Excellent write up.

 

[TorontoGold]

I didn't say charges shouldn't be filed. I will repeat myself. This happens all the time and criminal charges for these actions are almost always negotiated out to a fine and repayment. Why should this be different?

Who's going after Hunter Biden? What did I miss?

I will say it again - I work with clients that have similar levels of wealth and they don't do anything as brazenly corrupt as what was detailed in the charges. So, no, it doesn't happen all the time. Having a separate set of books off the main set is comically corrupt. I can't believe his accounting firm wasn't charged, maybe in the next set of charges. With the level of debt he has, how all the different entities missed these things is incredible.

Isn't the FBI investigating Hunter Biden for taxes? Blazers can give a detailed summary on it - https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/09/politics/hunter-biden-tax-investigtation/index.html

 

[IrishRazor82]

The left's incessant attempts to bring down Trump have truly shown how their brains have been melded.

Just stick to the mean tweets, they're actually real, mean, and abundant. The rest has been wild waste of time, energy, and money.

 

[TDHeysus]

The left's incessant attempts to bring down Trump have truly shown how their brains have been melded.

Just stick to the mean tweets, they're actually real, mean, and abundant. The rest has been wild waste of time, energy, and money.

much like voting for the same politician for generations even though that politician does absolutely nothing for them, just the joy and sense of satisfaction of going after Trump is enough for them. When that fails to yield the results want, they will queue up something else. Remember 'how serious' all of the Avenatti/Stormy Daniels stuff was? ....btw, how did that turn out? Did it have any meaningful negative impact with Trump at all? ....Did Avenatti ever run for President? /yawn

 

[NorthDakota]

Did Avenatti ever run for President? /yawn

He's awaiting sentencing right now I think lol.

 

[PerthDomer]

I will say it again - I work with clients that have similar levels of wealth and they don't do anything as brazenly corrupt as what was detailed in the charges. So, no, it doesn't happen all the time. Having a separate set of books off the main set is comically corrupt. I can't believe his accounting firm wasn't charged, maybe in the next set of charges. With the level of debt he has, how all the different entities missed these things is incredible.

Isn't the FBI investigating Hunter Biden for taxes? Blazers can give a detailed summary on it - https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/09/politics/hunter-biden-tax-investigtation/index.html

I'd have to guess the org didnt just do this for one person. What sort of consulting fee records do they have for say Ivanka or other family members? It's interesting they've only charged this in one instance. Will be interesting to see where the case evolves/moves to.

 

[TorontoGold]

I'd have to guess the org didnt just do this for one person. What sort of consulting fee records do they have for say Ivanka or other family members? It's interesting they've only charged this in one instance. Will be interesting to see where the case evolves/moves to.

I wouldn't be so sure of that, he's notoriously cheap so I don't expect that this sort of arrangement would be made for anyone else. I couldn't imagine him taking on the risk exposure to do this for anyone else. The criminal element to this is brought by Weisselberg's financial background and use of falsifying business records, not sure on the legal principles but my guess is that it would extremely hard to prove criminal intent for Ivanka and co. Although, Ivanka being part of two crime families is something that certainly gives her more exposure than say Snowie.

 

[Blazers46]

I will say it again - I work with clients that have similar levels of wealth and they don't do anything as brazenly corrupt as what was detailed in the charges. So, no, it doesn't happen all the time. Having a separate set of books off the main set is comically corrupt. I can't believe his accounting firm wasn't charged, maybe in the next set of charges. With the level of debt he has, how all the different entities missed these things is incredible.

Isn't the FBI investigating Hunter Biden for taxes? Blazers can give a detailed summary on it - https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/09/politics/hunter-biden-tax-investigtation/index.html

No detail needed, pretty easy to just summarize. Its all a Russian disinformation campaign to sway an election.... right?

 

[drayer54]

He's awaiting sentencing right now I think lol.

He was also the guy who was supposed to bring down Kavanaugh. Lib hysteria is so funny.

 

[Irish#1]

I wouldn't be so sure of that, he's notoriously cheap so I don't expect that this sort of arrangement would be made for anyone else. I couldn't imagine him taking on the risk exposure to do this for anyone else. The criminal element to this is brought by Weisselberg's financial background and use of falsifying business records, not sure on the legal principles but my guess is that it would extremely hard to prove criminal intent for Ivanka and co. Although, Ivanka being part of two crime families is something that certainly gives her more exposure than say Snowie.

From what I read a couple of weeks ago, it gave the appearance that those benefits were provided to more than one person.

 

[TorontoGold]

Forgive us if we've been hearing the little boy cry "Wolf" one too many times, Cack. We've been hearing consistently for 4 years that the shit is going to hit the fan and it never really does. At this point we'd be blue and buried if we were holding our breath for something tangible to happen. If something does finally come down it would be a shock at this point.

If there were similar charges to the Clinton Foundation it would be a huge story, and rightfully so. If the Clinton's had their charity shutdown, or say, their university shutdown it would be a never ending story here.

 

[Blazers46]

If there were similar charges to the Clinton Foundation it would be a huge story, and rightfully so. If the Clinton's had their charity shutdown, or say, their university shutdown it would be a never ending story here.

Maybe the Trump Organization should have just had their execs do finger paintings and paid them millions for those paintings.....

 

[TDHeysus]

Forgive us if we've been hearing the little boy cry "Wolf" one too many times, Cack......

granted I dont spend nearly the amount of time on IE as I once did waaaaay back it the day....but do i understand correctly that TorontoGold = Cack??

If there were similar charges to the Clinton Foundation it would be a huge story, and rightfully so. If the Clinton's had their charity shutdown, or say, their university shutdown it would be a never ending story here.

remember the time The clintons had the Clinton Global initialive and claimed that they were helping humanity with all of the $$$$ that was donated to it, and then after Hillary bumbled the 2016 election, the CGI was dismantled quicker than fast? ...yeah that was funny.

 

[BrownerandFry]

He was also the guy who was supposed to bring down Kavanaugh. Lib hysteria is so funny.

I'm a little fuzzy on this weird conservative/liberal dichotomy. When we threw George's tea in Boston Harbor was that "liberal" or "conservative?"

 

[Irish#1]

I'm a little fuzzy on this weird conservative/liberal dichotomy. When we threw George's tea in Boston Harbor was that "liberal" or "conservative?"

Yes

 

[Irish#1]

If there were similar charges to the Clinton Foundation it would be a huge story, and rightfully so. If the Clinton's had their charity shutdown, or say, their university shutdown it would be a never ending story here.

I have no idea how clean or dirty Bill & Hillary are, but do find it interesting that most anything about them that is controversial seems to die pretty quickly.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

That’s enough. Ok. Move on. It’s done

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Get back on topic. I told you I’d look at that thread for any infractions. We take personal insults and targeted harassment seriously but I have been unable to as of yet. I’m getting my ass kicked at work and trying to get ready for an emergency surgery that just become needed and Im renovating my house.

If there is something specific use the report post function. None of the other mods likely even know what happens in this forum. I’m trying to stay out of here as well as I’m an admin and a owner and I don’t want to get into it anymore with users and so ont need a sock account to discuss politics lol. I also don’t want you all tarring Toronto with the same brush I’ve tarred myself with in your eyes. That’s not fair to him. Last warning…. Move on

 

[Sea Turtle]

I guess I should post this here as well. Just a bunch of goons being stupid. Not an insurrection of the election result or some attempt to overthrow the government.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exc...es-2021-08-20/

 

[Rogue219]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/BGrueskin/status/1432518609184739330[/TWEET]

The they is a lot of people but she doesn't know exactly who they are.

 

[ulukinatme]

I guess I should post this here as well. Just a bunch of goons being stupid. Not an insurrection of the election result or some attempt to overthrow the government.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exc...es-2021-08-20/

This was right up there with the Russian bounties and all the other hoaxes the media pushed. Anyone with half a brain could tell there was nothing seriously coordinated or any real threat to democracy on January 6th. No shots were fired, the deaths that everyone pearl clutched over were natural causes (Other than Babbitt shot by police), and the protesters all left when the National Guard came in and told them to leave. Even if they had put up an ounce of a fight, the Guard and the military would have had that situation cleaned up by bed time, but it never came to that, not even close. This won't stop the media though, they'll keep pushing the narrative because negative press for conservatives is good for them even if it's misinformation and bogus. Democracy almost died!

 

[RDU Irish]

The Biden thread prompted good question. What did I not like of Trump's presidency. Like policy and actions, not just rhetoric and fake news like ulukinatme itemizes above.

At the time I wanted him to pull the plug on Afghanistan faster - I think he kicked that can down the road. Now I can make a case that he was responsibly downsizing and responding to circumstances on the ground. Half that gear left behind is on him, IMO.

Big spender - not shocked but he took no action to reign in the budget.

That is about all I have off the top of my head, outside of the rhetoric and social media not much to fault IMO. Maybe the haters can point out some other items but remember to be a valid point, a) it needs to be true, b) it needs to resonate with non-liberals. Example, I can look at Obamacare and appreciate how it was win for that side while hating the policy and finding it horribly destructive to our society.

 

[drayer54]

The Biden thread prompted good question. What did I not like of Trump's presidency. Like policy and actions, not just rhetoric and fake news like ulukinatme itemizes above.

At the time I wanted him to pull the plug on Afghanistan faster - I think he kicked that can down the road. Now I can make a case that he was responsibly downsizing and responding to circumstances on the ground. Half that gear left behind is on him, IMO.

Big spender - not shocked but he took no action to reign in the budget.

That is about all I have off the top of my head, outside of the rhetoric and social media not much to fault IMO. Maybe the haters can point out some other items but remember to be a valid point, a) it needs to be true, b) it needs to resonate with non-liberals. Example, I can look at Obamacare and appreciate how it was win for that side while hating the policy and finding it horribly destructive to our society.

Bump stocks....

Stupid tweets.

Spending

Stupid comments

 

[RDU Irish]

Bump stocks....

Stupid tweets.

Spending

Stupid comments

So spending is the only policy/action negative for you. Sticks and stones needs to come back in to vogue - words will never hurt you.

 

[drayer54]

So spending is the only policy/action negative for you. Sticks and stones needs to come back in to vogue - words will never hurt you.

I also pretty much despise his handling of the 2020 election. FWIW