Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[Cackalacky2.0]

I'll stick up for GK because he sure was correct about the direction of the program when he listed the majority of his complaints and started this thread. 2016 was nothing but vindication for his position.

Both of these statements can be true:
2016 was an inexcusable dumpster fire and BK deserved to be fired.
ND not firing BK was a great move.

Yes. Ill got to the mat for GK on that pre 2016 as well. After that season I became unconcerned for Kelly's tenure at ND.

 

[NorthDakota]

Yes. Ill got to the mat for GK on that pre 2016 as well. After that season I became unconcerned for Kelly's tenure at ND.

I think if I went back and dug up my posts I too became indifferent. If ND could land a better guy, I would have been very much okay with canning him. That said, things have worked out pretty well since then sans Miami and Michigan road debacles.

 

[Dale]

I don’t think I got into him with it on the original thread creation in 2016 but in 2017 he was still advocating for firing BK for just about anyone, I remember specifically finding it ridiculous to advocate for Dantonio as a replacement. We were very much in the sure firing BK would be valid if you have the right replacement phase and he was just advocating tear down regardless and did not properly evaluate the next step after succeeding in the BK tear down

 

[zelezo vlk]

Yeah let's not dog on GK, he was rightfully concerned for the program after 2014 and 2016. Nobody could've seen this coming, not even Jack. Heck, I thought it was pretty much confirmed that BK would've been gone if anyone besides Row the Boat or Matt Rhule was interested.

 

[ulukinatme]

Pretty sure I've always been #TeamKelly. Even after 2016, I didn't think we could do better.

Same to my knowledge. I know I challenged a number of people after 2016 to name another college head coach that would come in and do a better job than BK given the circumstances. I firmly believe you don't oust someone unless you're confidant you have a replacement and that person is better than what you have. Something may be said about a coach losing a team and at some point it's better to move on...but obviously BK was never out of it as he made a monumental turn around.

 

[Armyirish47]

Yeah let's not dog on GK, he was rightfully concerned for the program after 2014 and 2016. Nobody could've seen this coming, not even Jack. Heck, I thought it was pretty much confirmed that BK would've been gone if anyone besides Row the Boat or Matt Rhule was interested.

In the same vein as late Arkansas era Houston Nutt...I called that program turnaround brotha!

 

[T Town Tommy]

I recommended renaming this thread a while back to BK Reinvented. He has done a masterful job of elevating the program to where it is today. Can’t blame those posters that wanted to go in a different direction… it’s simply placed on their desire to see their team succeed. It’s ok, in hindsight to maybe be on the wrong side of the discussion but it’s never ok to lose the desire. Guys like GK never lost their desire and that, in the end, is what truly matters.

 

[NDRock]

Same to my knowledge. I know I challenged a number of people after 2016 to name another college head coach that would come in and do a better job than BK given the circumstances. I firmly believe you don't oust someone unless you're confidant you have a replacement and that person is better than what you have. Something may be said about a coach losing a team and at some point it's better to move on...but obviously BK was never out of it as he made a monumental turn around.

I just assumed it was over for him after 2016, even if he wasn't fired then. I don't think any coach has ever completely reformed a program in one year (new OC, DC, STC, S&C) and ultimately been successful. He's the one others will point to in the future when their coach is trying the same.

 

[rtrn2glory]

What's sad is how much the van gorder years cost us. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to fully forgive him and Notre Dame for it. 2015 season absolutely frustrates the hell out of me to this day and idk if it'll ever not

 

[Irish#1]

Same to my knowledge. I know I challenged a number of people after 2016 to name another college head coach that would come in and do a better job than BK given the circumstances. I firmly believe you don't oust someone unless you're confidant you have a replacement and that person is better than what you have. Something may be said about a coach losing a team and at some point it's better to move on...but obviously BK was never out of it as he made a monumental turn around.

Absolutely. I'm a firm believer that Jack was snooping around, but didn't see anything that convinced him to make the change. I also believe he had a heart to heart with BK about improving the program and hence the changes.

 

[Irish#1]

I recommended renaming this thread a while back to BK Reinvented. He has done a masterful job of elevating the program to where it is today. Can’t blame those posters that wanted to go in a different direction… it’s simply placed on their desire to see their team succeed. It’s ok, in hindsight to maybe be on the wrong side of the discussion but it’s never ok to lose the desire. Guys like GK never lost their desire and that, in the end, is what truly matters.

Where have you been hiding? Haven't seen you post in quite a while.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Where have you been hiding? Haven't seen you post in quite a while.

Just been extremely busy with work the last six months or so. Saw where you got a commitment on Moore so I thought I would check in on my Irish friends. For the record, I think Moore is underrated. Hope you’re doing well.

 

[T-Boone]

I think unless the offense makes big leaps forward this season BK should pulls strings and line Rees up a head coaching job at Grand Valley State or somewhere similar. I think Rees needs to take that sort of career path. Grand Valley > Central Michigan > Michigan > Cincinatti > ND.

 

[NDdomer2]

If ur a power 5 OC and you take a D2 HC ur on crazy pills

 

[NorthDakota]

I think unless the offense makes big leaps forward this season BK should pulls strings and line Rees up a head coaching job at Grand Valley State or somewhere similar. I think Rees needs to take that sort of career path. Grand Valley > Central Michigan > Michigan > Cincinatti > ND.

Tommy could get many FCS jobs tomorrow. No need to go D2.

 

[T-Boone]

If ur a power 5 OC and you take a D2 HC ur on crazy pills

Well maybe BK can pull strings at Central Michigan then, point is Rees was probably promoted too quick.

 

[Dale]

I think unless the offense makes big leaps forward this season BK should pulls strings and line Rees up a head coaching job at Grand Valley State or somewhere similar. I think Rees needs to take that sort of career path. Grand Valley > Central Michigan > Michigan > Cincinatti > ND.

You think all at the same time, Rees is a future ND caliber HC, presently not a ND caliber OC, and presently couldn’t land better than GVSU without strings being pulled?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

To the crazies out there..
You do realize Tommy hasn't had a full season yet and has only has one spring camp, right?
Let's give him a minutes
(this post is coming from a non-crazy skeptic too)

 

[StPaul_Irish]

You think all at the same time, Rees is a future ND caliber HC, presently not a ND caliber OC, and presently couldn’t land better than GVSU without strings being pulled?

LOL, glad Im not the only won who didn't think this plan was well thought out.

 

[Irish#1]

Tommy hasn't even finished his first cup of coffee. I remember how everyone was excited with his game plan after the Iowa St. bowl game. Now he needs to go because he was taught a lesson by a couple of veteran DC's who have made many OC's look bad? Looks like some growing pains IMO. Let's see how he does this year before.

 

[GATTACA!]

To the crazies out there..
You do realize Tommy hasn't had a full season yet and has only has one spring camp, right?
Let's give him a minutes
(this post is coming from a non-crazy skeptic too)

Unless his recruiting improves its not going to matter how good of a coach he is or isn't.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I think unless the offense makes big leaps forward this season BK should pulls strings and line Rees up a head coaching job at Grand Valley State or somewhere similar. I think Rees needs to take that sort of career path. Grand Valley > Central Michigan > Michigan > Cincinatti > ND.

Idk what I'm missing with these Rees skeptics.

In his first year as OC, he led the Irish to a top 30 offense in both YPG (No. 26) and PPG (No. 30), with obvious limitations at both the WR position and, to a degree, Ian Book's inability to attack downfield (which go hand in hand, IMO). Obviously the WR group was limited by injuries to Austin and Lenzy, and by no means were they terrible.

Not to mention the fact that for YEARS, many of the IE "pundits" have been clamoring for ND to RTDB, and Rees did exactly that (No. 26 in rushing O).

The dude is 29 years old, and had to do his job for the first time amid all of the COVID restrictions that eliminated Spring ball and offseason programs leading up to Fall Camp.

From what we can tell, if you read the articles and interviews that are out there, his work ethic is off the charts (as it should be at this level). He watches hundreds of hours of film self evaluating himself and researching ways to open up the offense and intends to do so.

There is always room for improvement, but to call his first year a failure is simply way off the mark.

I think BK 3.0 deserves the benefit of the doubt with this hire. He did a great job revamping our D with the Elko/Lea hires and convinced Freeman to come here with heavy interest from LSU, scUM, etc, so let's not pretend him hiring Rees was a crony hire.

 

[BrownerandFry]

Isolate the variable. I "thank Book for his service" but relieved he has moved on

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Isolate the variable. I "thank Book for his service" but relieved he has moved on

I'm not sure I would go that far; my above comment regarding Book isn't implying I wasn't a fan of #12. He had his limitations attacking the field vertically and didn't have great pocket presence, but he did a lot of things really, really well. Extremely accurate in the short to intermediate game, plus athleticism and really good improvisation skills.

He was a high floor, low ceiling guy to lead the offense and helped us win a TON of games. It wasn't an accident that he was the winningest QB in ND history, and he led us to two playoff berths in his three years. Give credit where credit is due. EDIT: Book also played with some very solid ND defenses over those years, to be sure. But mediocre QBs aren't going to earn that record, IMO.

My point is, I think Rees did a solid job of running this offense to Book's strengths. To ask him to chuck the ball downfield to Ben S or Javon McKinley 15 times a game wouldn't have led to the same success we had offensively last year.

 

[T-Boone]

Idk what I'm missing with these Rees skeptics.

In his first year as OC, he led the Irish to a top 30 offense in both YPG (No. 26) and PPG (No. 30), with obvious limitations at both the WR position and, to a degree, Ian Book's inability to attack downfield (which go hand in hand, IMO). Obviously the WR group was limited by injuries to Austin and Lenzy, and by no means were they terrible.

Not to mention the fact that for YEARS, many of the IE "pundits" have been clamoring for ND to RTDB, and Rees did exactly that (No. 26 in rushing O).

The dude is 29 years old, and had to do his job for the first time amid all of the COVID restrictions that eliminated Spring ball and offseason programs leading up to Fall Camp.

From what we can tell, if you read the articles and interviews that are out there, his work ethic is off the charts (as it should be at this level). He watches hundreds of hours of film self evaluating himself and researching ways to open up the offense and intends to do so.

There is always room for improvement, but to call his first year a failure is simply way off the mark.

I think BK 3.0 deserves the benefit of the doubt with this hire. He did a great job revamping our D with the Elko/Lea hires and convinced Freeman to come here with heavy interest from LSU, scUM, etc, so let's not pretend him hiring Rees was a crony hire.

None of this is relevant in my opinion.
The only question is
"is he the best OC we can get for right now since:
1. we have maybe a really promising 2/3 year window with BK and Freeman and
2. we are about number 4 trying to become number 1 ASAP?"
The chances that he happens to be the best OC we can get for 22,23,24 is extremely low as I see it given his youth, his runs on the board (this may be an Australian/cricket term) and his recruiting efforts so far.

 

[T-Boone]

To the crazies out there..
You do realize Tommy hasn't had a full season yet and has only has one spring camp, right?
Let's give him a minutes
(this post is coming from a non-crazy skeptic too)

Just get the best OC.
Is Tommy the best OC we can get right now?

BK doesnt have a "minute".

 

[T-Boone]

You think all at the same time, Rees is a future ND caliber HC, presently not a ND caliber OC, and presently couldn’t land better than GVSU without strings being pulled?

I dont think he could land GVSU right now at all even with BKs help since they have a great winning coach according to WIKI.
And my point is I dont think Tommy is a right now ND callibre OC FOR RIGHT NOW given the ND circumstances.

 

[T-Boone]

I also dont really trust BKs judgement about Tommy for various reasons.

 

[T-Boone]

Chances are there is a Chicago Bears part time coach who could get the job tomorrow, slip Rees to QB coach, take the recruiting to the next level and win us a ship.

 

[General Colon Bowel]

None of this is relevant in my opinion.
The only question is
"is he the best OC we can get for right now since:
1. we have maybe a really promising 2/3 year window with BK and Freeman and
2. we are about number 4 trying to become number 1 ASAP?"
The chances that he happens to be the best OC we can get for 22,23,24 is extremely low as I see it given his youth, his runs on the board (this may be an Australian/cricket term) and his recruiting efforts so far.

If he's not the best OC we can get, who is? Off what are you basing your opinion that he's not the best OC for Notre Dame right now?

I'm curious what the offense would have needed to do last year to convince you not to already write Rees off. Book had well documented limitations, we started the year with RB as question mark, we started a true freshman at TE, and Austin, Lenzy, Keys all missed over half the season with injury. Our clear strength was the offensive line, and we leaned into that for a top 25 offense. It wasn't particularly explosive and showed poorly in the last 2 games of the season, but given the personnel available I can't reasonably imagine a much more effective offense, regardless of the coordinator.

It doesn't seem to me like Tommy is content to run a limited, run-heavy offense either. We brought in 2 QBs this spring (Coan and Buchner) who have the arm talent to open up the offense more than we did with Book.

As for recruiting - for all the (deserved) hype Freeman has been getting for his recruiting efforts, it's worth remembering that:
1. in the 2020 + 2021 classes for which Tommy was OC at some point in the recruiting calendar, ND landed 14 top 300 players on offense and 4 on defense
2. when CJ Williams commits as expected we will have 6 top 300 offensive commitments and 6 top 300 defensive commitments in the 2022 class, the highest rated of which will be CJ Williams.

I do think Freeman is an elite recruiter and his track record suggests he's also an elite coordinator, but I don't think any of Rees' recruiting efforts or offensive results in 1 year + 1 game of sample size suggest he can't be either. Freeman's first defense at Cincy in 2017 was outside the top 80 in team defense and look where he is now...maybe give Rees another season before calling for him to be replaced