Police State USA

[drayer54]

Multiple reports have stated that people were shouting that he was the shooter to the police and they didn't arrest him then. I can provide a references to that being reported.

Why would I respond to a series of questions that are setup in a deceptive way that leaves out the most important part.

People were shouting that. It was also chaos. You can hear it in the video. So what? None of that is the point nor does it matter.

What is the most important part that I am leaving out? It's a fairly straightforward question. If any of those people approached or were greeted by the police in that position, would they have been shot? Why or why not?

 

[drayer54]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1385305451428990978?s=20[/TWEET] New camera angle in Ohio. Also captures one of the adult males kicking a woman in the head. I don't see a police problem here. Not to say that I don't see a problem.

 

[Blazers46]

Multiple reports have stated that people were shouting that he was the shooter to the police and they didn't arrest him then. I can provide a references to that being reported.

Why would I respond to a series of questions that are setup in a deceptive way that leaves out the most important part.

If you see my comment above that was answered. Police were driving military vehicles and inside of those vehicles. They were responding to the injuries and had no clue who was the shooter. Its reported they could not hear people shouting.

Edit - Ill add it again

Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis defended his department’s actions in an Aug. 28, 2020 news conference, saying the police in the vehicles didn’t see Rittenhouse as a threat and wouldn’t have heard yelling from the crowd over other noise. He said officers were more focused on the injuries and what happened down the street.

 

[ab2cmiller]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1385305451428990978?s=20[/TWEET] New camera angle in Ohio. Also captures one of the adult males kicking a woman in the head. I don't see a police problem here. Not to say that I don't see a problem.

One of the comments on that tweet ..... "mostly peaceful attempted stabbing"

 

[TorontoGold]

People were shouting that. It was also chaos. You can hear it in the video. So what? None of that is the point nor does it matter.

What is the most important part that I am leaving out? It's a fairly straightforward question. If any of those people approached or were greeted by the police in that position, would they have been shot? Why or why not?

Just because it doesn't fit with your "point", doesn't mean it doesn't materially change the situation. You simply can't compare people yelling "he's the shooter" to any of the other situations.

 

[RDU Irish]

" THERE WAS NO INDICATION HE WOULD HAVE DIED" = no role in his death? If you can provide me a quote becasue I clearly missed that part of thier testimony. I know they said he had an enlarged heart and two low functioning arteries but they didn’t kill him. Chauvin direct actions stressed his body to the point of death. Putting your knee on anyone’s neck. Long enough will kill them. Lol

Also my point about continuing to wonder is it does harm the ultimate understanding of the case and any truthfully honest discussion. To the point of no reasonable doubt they proved he died from the actions of Chauvin. Anything past this is injecting a bias.

I'm not sure who is arguing he did not kill Floyd. It was obvious he was on drugs which, in my unqualified opinion, means you should take more care, not less. These cops respond to all kinds of over dose deaths and should have had more of a first responder stance - was Floyd really trying to flee or putting up a fight? What immediate threat did he pose to anyone other than himself? Then again, how often do they deal with tweaked out folks that go from submissive/passed out to Hulk Smash in a blink?

I guess I thought murder required some level of intent which I haven't seen the compelling evidence of. IMO, the failure of other cops to intervene is either an indictment of those cops or a defense of Chauvin. Just because you got the result you wanted does not mean he had a fair trial. Just because he did not get a fair trial does not mean he is innocent. Just because he killed the guy doesn't mean he did it because he was black.

I'm not losing any sleep over Chauvin going to the pokey - doubt many people are. I thought for sure there would be riots either way and very pleased to see I was wrong.

 

[RDU Irish]

Just because it doesn't fit with your "point", doesn't mean it doesn't materially change the situation. You simply can't compare people yelling "he's the shooter" to any of the other situations.

Just because people talk doesn't mean anyone is listening.

 

[Blazers46]

One of the comments on that tweet ..... "mostly peaceful attempted stabbing"

If it were Killer Kyle Rittenhouse he would have had all the time in the world to slice and dice them all...

 

[NorthDakota]

" THERE WAS NO INDICATION HE WOULD HAVE DIED" = no role in his death? If you can provide me a quote becasue I clearly missed that part of thier testimony. I know they said he had an enlarged heart and two low functioning arteries but they didn’t kill him. Chauvin direct actions stressed his body to the point of death. Putting your knee on anyone’s neck. Long enough will kill them. Lol

Also my point about continuing to wonder is it does harm the ultimate understanding of the case and any truthfully honest discussion. To the point of no reasonable doubt they proved he died from the actions of Chauvin. Anything past this is injecting a bias.

The death certificate literally says contributing conditions: heart disease, fentanyl, and recent meth use.

If your assertion you've been trying to make is that but for Derek Chauvin and the other cops' actions, George Floyd would not have died... thats a perfectly reasonable position that almost everyone would agree with.

But if you are saying "drugs and heart problems played no role in his death and anyone who questions that is wrong", then you are telling us the medical examiner is pretty awful at his job and shouldn't be trusted.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

The death certificate literally says contributing conditions: heart disease, fentanyl, and recent meth use.

If your assertion you've been trying to make is that but for Derek Chauvin and the other cops' actions, George Floyd would not have died... thats a perfectly reasonable position that almost everyone would agree with.

But if you are saying "drugs and heart problems played no role in his death and anyone who questions that is wrong", then you are telling us the medical examiner is pretty awful at his job and shouldn't be trusted.

The reason they put those other things on the death certificate is not as casue of death but underlying physical issues the coroner identifed for data collection . The CDC requires things like that be reported.

The reason he died..... was becaseu Chauvin kneeled on his neck for over 9 minutes. Ill bet you if i kneeled on your neck you wuouldnt last 10 minutes no matter what condition you are in.

 

[drayer54]

Just because it doesn't fit with your "point", doesn't mean it doesn't materially change the situation. You simply can't compare people yelling "he's the shooter" to any of the other situations.

ok- assume the worst. Assume they know Kyle just pulled the trigger. It doesn’t matter.

if any of those people greeted the police like Kyle did, would they be alive today? Would any of them still be dead? Why or why not?

You’re dodging the question. The zero accountability mindset is amazing to me.

 

[NorthDakota]

The reason they put those other things on the death certificate is not as casue of death but underlying physical issues the coroner identifed for data collection . The CDC requires things like that be reported.

"So in your opinion," Nelson asked, "both the heart disease as well as the history of hypertension and the drugs that were in his system played a role in Mr. Floyd's death?"

"In my opinion, yes," Baker said.


Yep. Sounds like it's just for CDC data.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

jfc...
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/CallanGrayNews/status/1380600605702504459[/TWEET] im done..



"Instructions for Completing the Cause-of-Death Section of the Death Certificate Accurate cause-of-death information is important: • To the public health community in evaluating and improving the health of all citizens, and • Often to the family, now and in the future, and to the person settling the decedent's estate. The cause-of-death section consists of two parts.

Part I is for reporting a chain of events leading directly to death, with the immediate cause of death (the final disease, injury, or complication directly causing death) on Line a and the underlying cause of death (the disease or injury that initiated the chain of morbid events that led directly and inevitably to death) on the lowest used line.

Part II is for reporting all other significant diseases, conditions, or injuries that contributed to death but which did not result in the underlying cause of death given in Part I. The cause-of-death information should be YOUR best medical OPINION. A condition can be listed as “probable” even if it has not been definitively diagnosed."-CDC Instructions on how to fill out a death certificate.

There was no determination made on the extent of involvement of these "contributing factors". There is no way to determine if the fent was a problem. By all accounts he did not display any physcially obvious issues for someone dying of an OD on fent (this was expressely dismissed in the testimony). Again why is ht a matter? He died from the kneeling by Chauvin. "OH NO A BLACK MAN HAD DRUGS IN HIS SYSTEM WHEN A COP KNEELED ON HIS NECK FOR 10 MINUTES KILLINGHIM. THE BLACK GUY DESERVED IT!!!!!

Its fucking wierd man let it go.

 

[TorontoGold]

ok- assume the worst. Assume they know Kyle just pulled the trigger. It doesn’t matter.

if any of those people greeted the police like Kyle did, would they be alive today? Would any of them still be dead? Why or why not?

You’re dodging the question. The zero accountability mindset is amazing to me.

Wait - so now we're changing facts. They had windows of their cruisers open, they could hear. Even though it was about to turn into Tiananmen square.

It doesn't matter? lmao it changes everything that he was allowed to go home. You can not tell me voluntarily turning yourself in is the same as any of those situations.

Adam Toledo "greeted" the police with empty hands, didn't work out so hot for him.

 

[drayer54]

Wait - so now we're changing facts. They had windows of their cruisers open, they could hear. Even though it was about to turn into Tiananmen square.

It doesn't matter? lmao it changes everything that he was allowed to go home. You can not tell me voluntarily turning yourself in is the same as any of those situations.

Adam Toledo "greeted" the police with empty hands, didn't work out so hot for him.

Adam Toledo fled the police, he did not stand there with his hands up. He also tossed his gun less than one second before. So had he not fled, like Kyle, and had he put his hands up, would he have been killed? The answer is no.

The answer to all of these instances is NO. In every single case, the person would be alive today. Is that what you are working so hard not to say? Why is it so hard to admit that?

So you could then say that Kyle being white is not why he is alive today and that these people being black isn't why they are dead. I read that you want everything to be hopelessly racist, but actions matter here.

 

[NorthDakota]

jfc...
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/CallanGrayNews/status/1380600605702504459[/TWEET] im done..



"Instructions for Completing the Cause-of-Death Section of the Death Certificate Accurate cause-of-death information is important: • To the public health community in evaluating and improving the health of all citizens, and • Often to the family, now and in the future, and to the person settling the decedent's estate. The cause-of-death section consists of two parts.

Part I is for reporting a chain of events leading directly to death, with the immediate cause of death (the final disease, injury, or complication directly causing death) on Line a and the underlying cause of death (the disease or injury that initiated the chain of morbid events that led directly and inevitably to death) on the lowest used line.

Part II is for reporting all other significant diseases, conditions, or injuries that contributed to death but which did not result in the underlying cause of death given in Part I. The cause-of-death information should be YOUR best medical OPINION. A condition can be listed as “probable” even if it has not been definitively diagnosed."

No one has suggested otherwise that I'm aware of. Saw all of this on the TV.

Are you telling us Dr. Baker was wrong or lying?

 

[TorontoGold]

Adam Toledo fled the police, he did not stand there with his hands up. He also tossed his gun less than one second before. So had he not fled, like Kyle, and had he put his hands up, would he have been killed? The answer is no.

The answer to all of these instances is NO. In every single case, the person would be alive today. Is that what you are working so hard not to say? Why is it so hard to admit that?

So you could then say that Kyle being white is not why he is alive today and that these people being black isn't why they are dead. I read that you want everything to be hopelessly racist, but actions matter here.

It takes a special kind of person to say crossing state boundaries to go home after killing two people is not fleeing.

Nuance is required for a KR, but nope AT had it coming. C'est la vie. Enjoy your night, we aren't going to get each other to agree on it.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

No one has suggested otherwise that I'm aware of. Saw all of this on the TV.

Are you telling us Dr. Baker was wrong or lying?

What is so hard about this? Im not denying Dr. Baker or the DC. Its on the DC what the cause of death is. Other things observed inthe autopsy as contributing factors are listed on the DC becasue its required to be. Ok so he had an enlarged heart which made blood flow slower.. So he died in 9 minutes instead of 11? Ok So fucking what. He had drugs in his system which didnt indicate any physcial changes to his behavior while under duress by being choked that any normal person would ( i saw that on the TV). So fucking what? He would have died just the same without the other items listed in Part II on the DC ( Isaw that on the TV). What the fuck does it matter if he had drugs in his system other than trying to muddy the waters that Chauvins actions didnt directly lead to him murdering him. Well yes he had drugs in his sytem. He had an enlarged heart and none of that measn fuck all on how Chauvin choked him to death....

 

[drayer54]

It takes a special kind of person to say crossing state boundaries to go home after killing two people is not fleeing.

Nuance is required for a KR, but nope AT had it coming. C'est la vie. Enjoy your night, we aren't going to get each other to agree on it.

Which cops were pursuing him? Were his actions flawless? No, but to compare the chase with the kid in Chicago is dishonest. The state boundaries thing is a joke, it was like 10 miles.

Even you know your logic holds no water and that is why you keep running from the question. Stick to your false narrative.

 

[NorthDakota]

He would have died just the same without them.

Do we know that?

 

[ab2cmiller]

Do we know that?

Not sure if it really matters, at least legally anyhow. They said in Minnesota the defendant must be deemed a substantial causal factor in the death, but needn’t be the only one.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Do we know that?

Lmao

 

[NorthDakota]

Lmao

Dr. Baker: "No pulse, no breathing. And, in my opinion, the law enforcement subdual, restraint and the neck compression was just more than Mr. Floyd could take, by virtue of that — those heart conditions."

Sure seems as though Dr. Baker was suggesting there that had Mr. Floyd not had heart conditions (one of them pesky contributing factors), he'd have survived.

On the other hand, one of their hired guns said anyone would have died. So who knows...

 

[NorthDakota]

Not sure if it really matters, at least legally anyhow. They said in Minnesota the defendant must be deemed a substantial causal factor in the death, but needn’t be the only one.

Nope. Doesn't matter legally I don't think. I think it's purely a curiosity some people have.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Dr. Baker: "No pulse, no breathing. And, in my opinion, the law enforcement subdual, restraint and the neck compression was just more than Mr. Floyd could take, by virtue of that — those heart conditions."

Sure seems as though Dr. Baker was suggesting there that had Mr. Floyd not had heart conditions (one of them pesky contributing factors), he'd have survived.

On the other hand, one of their hired guns said anyone would have died. So who knows...

I’m sure if that is what he was saying it would have been included in Part I of the official direct cause of death.

 

[NorthDakota]

I’m sure if that is what he was saying it would have been included in Part I of the official direct cause of death.

Why would he put an indirect cause of death in the direct section?

 

[PerthDomer]

If I jump a 50 year old and he dies can I get off by claiming if he were 20 he would have survived his wounds? 10% if intubated COVID 20 year olds die. It jumps to close to 50% in 70 year olds. If a 70 year old dies of COVID ARDS should we actually blame his age and not the virus?

 

[irishff1014]

If you think this... why? All medical experts testified that that was 100% not the cause of his death except the defense's hired gun who made up every reasonunder the sun other than what actally killed him (virtually his entire testimony folded under cross examination as nothing more than unfounded specualtion).

i don't remember if which medical examiner it was flat out said on the stand that if Floyd was found on the street corner and brought in the would have ruled his death an overdose. He had the medical examiner report had that he had almost 4 times the lethal dose in his system. That's a lot.

I know that not many other get the opportunity to give Narcan. It is not fun and at times can make the situation a shit show. When you take the high completely away no only are the needing their high but they are confused and pissed. I have seen more than i would care to see in the last year of overdoses. A normal dose of heroin with some fentanyl in it will knock people out and put people in a life or death situation.

 

[Rocket89]

i don't remember if which medical examiner it was flat out said on the stand that if Floyd was found on the street corner and brought in the would have ruled his death an overdose. He had the medical examiner report had that he had almost 4 times the lethal dose in his system. That's a lot.

I know that not many other get the opportunity to give Narcan. It is not fun and at times can make the situation a shit show. When you take the high completely away no only are the needing their high but they are confused and pissed. I have seen more than i would care to see in the last year of overdoses. A normal dose of heroin with some fentanyl in it will knock people out and put people in a life or death situation.

This isn't true and nor what was said during the trial. You really have to question the motives of people who continue to push the propaganda that Floyd's drug levels were outrageously high.

On the one hand, the toxicology report has proven this completely false. It takes 2 seconds to debunk this theory.

But even if someone wasn't familiar with a toxicology report--or like we've seen so many times--likes to distort testimony from doctors to push a false theory you'd still have to grapple with the common sense of someone driving and walking around a store with 4 TIMES THE LETHAL DOSE. How stupid do you think people are to buy that?

I know this is something you just read on The Blaze or wherever but damn. Floyd had fentanyl equivalents of like 2 beers in his system and you think people should buy the lie that he had the equivalent of like 86 beers in his system. It's absurd.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

This isn't true and nor what was said during the trial. You really have to question the motives of people who continue to push the propaganda that Floyd's drug levels were outrageously high.

On the one hand, the toxicology report has proven this completely false. It takes 2 seconds to debunk this theory.

But even if someone wasn't familiar with a toxicology report--or like we've seen so many times--likes to distort testimony from doctors to push a false theory you'd still have to grapple with the common sense of someone driving and walking around a store with 4 TIMES THE LETHAL DOSE. How stupid do you think people are to buy that?

I know this is something you just read on The Blaze or wherever but damn. Floyd had fentanyl equivalents of like 2 beers in his system and you think people should buy the lie that he had the equivalent of like 86 beers in his system. It's absurd.

Yes. That lie has been debunked many times over but still wont go away. Clearly.