Police State USA

[Cackalacky2.0]

If I jump a 50 year old and he dies can I get off by claiming if he were 20 he would have survived his wounds? 10% if intubated COVID 20 year olds die. It jumps to close to 50% in 70 year olds. If a 70 year old dies of COVID ARDS should we actually blame his age and not the virus?

My wife's grandmother went into the hospital for a hysterectomy. Through hospital negligence she developed an infection>>>>> pneumonia and dies after being weakened from the hysterectomy surgery. Her death certificate says she died of pneumonia. Also listed were her historic hypertension, damage to lungs from years of smoking, and weakened state from the surgery as contributing factors.....but she got the infection from the hosptials negligent actions.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Lebron James is a top 5 all time NBA player. And he's also a mental midget.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

This really isn’t that difficult. Holy shit. The right verdict was delivered. This guy Chauvin is an absolute POS. I am an ardent PD supporter and have many friends and family on the job. To a person they all agree he was wrong. Once the cuffs are on, it’s over. He was no longer trying to subdue Floyd and though he was behaving erratic leading up to the arrest, Floyd was not a threat after he was cuffed.
Some other points:
The police feed prisoners. Sometimes sandwiches. Sometimes Burger King. This is normal.
Police need better training. They actually don’t train when they leave the academy. They do yearly range qualifications. Minimum standards to maintain. This must change. Minimum quals aren’t cutting it when life and death decisions are made. They also need more tools physically before needing to escalate to deadly force. Every cop should be trained in Jiu-Jitsu to learn how to subdue larger and more physically imposing perps. The more tools you have physically, the less likely situations will be to escalate to deadly force. This is including some holds that are currently against regulations. Some variants of “choke” holds. I
Cops aren’t shooting guns out of people’s hands or shooting people in the leg. They shoot center mass.

I have more but am in a rush. There are a lot of good dudes on this site. Keep the discussion civil. We can all learn a bit.

 

[Trait Expectations]

This really isn’t that difficult. Holy shit. The right verdict was delivered. This guy Chauvin is an absolute POS. I am an ardent PD supporter and have many friends and family on the job. To a person they all agree he was wrong. Once the cuffs are on, it’s over. He was no longer trying to subdue Floyd and though he was behaving erratic leading up to the arrest, Floyd was not a threat after he was cuffed.
Some other points:
The police feed prisoners. Sometimes sandwiches. Sometimes Burger King. This is normal.
Police need better training. They actually don’t train when they leave the academy. They do yearly range qualifications. Minimum standards to maintain. This must change. Minimum quals aren’t cutting it when life and death decisions are made. They also need more tools physically before needing to escalate to deadly force. Every cop should be trained in Jiu-Jitsu to learn how to subdue larger and more physically imposing perps. The more tools you have physically, the less likely situations will be to escalate to deadly force. This is including some holds that are currently against regulations. Some variants of “choke” holds. I
Cops aren’t shooting guns out of people’s hands or shooting people in the leg. They shoot center mass.

I have more but am in a rush. There are a lot of good dudes on this site. Keep the discussion civil. We can all learn a bit.

Sounds like somebody has been listening to Sam Harris. I listed to a great deal of his stuff and he had an entire episode on this recently. Fascinating stuff, especially how undertrained our police force is. We need to find a way to to pay better and ensure a certain number of hours/week are devoted to training (weapons, combat, etc).

 

[NorthDakota]

Sounds like somebody has been listening to Sam Harris. I listed to a great deal of his stuff and he had an entire episode on this recently. Fascinating stuff, especially how undertrained our police force is. We need to find a way to to pay better and ensure a certain number of hours/week are devoted to training (weapons, combat, etc).

NYPD needs a contract with Khabib Nurmagamedov and Georges St. Pierre. I haven't trained for wrestling in over a decade but I've still been able to restrain belligerent drunk friends on a few occasions (obviously not the same but you get the point).

Joking aside, more training would be good. But that does take more money, and probably more standards that many police can't meet.

In some places, simply paying better might help? I know our local PD gets paid peanuts but I've also seen that some larger city PD's pay pretty well.

 

[Blazers46]

If I jump a 50 year old and he dies can I get off by claiming if he were 20 he would have survived his wounds? 10% if intubated COVID 20 year olds die. It jumps to close to 50% in 70 year olds. If a 70 year old dies of COVID ARDS should we actually blame his age and not the virus?

So you’re comparing being 50 and 70 with having a deadly amount drugs in your system?

 

[Blazers46]

My wife's grandmother went into the hospital for a hysterectomy. Through hospital negligence she developed an infection>>>>> pneumonia and dies after being weakened from the hysterectomy surgery. Her death certificate says she died of pneumonia. Also listed were her historic hypertension, damage to lungs from years of smoking, and weakened state from the surgery as contributing factors.....but she got the infection from the hosptials negligent actions.

Was the hospital charged with 3 counts of murder/manslaughter?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Was the hospital charged with 3 counts of murder/manslaughter?

They were ultimately charged with and agreed to negligence resulting in the death of their patient in their care. This was a settlement which did not proced to a trial. What does it matter? Chauvin originally accepted a plea deal and then Barr allowed it to be undone and allow a jury trial wher Chauvin was charged with his crimes. Had we not settled, yes there would have been more severe charges levied.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

So you’re comparing being 50 and 70 with having a deadly amount drugs in your system?

The point he and I are making is the extent of the contributing factors were merely noted on a circumstancial basis and are really only noted on the DC for information purposes, therefore are much less important than the ACTUAL FUCKING REASON he died. How much longer would a man with 521 g heart have lasted being kneed upon versus a man with a 540g heart? Dont htink that was asked.

 

[TorontoGold]

They were ultimately charged with and agreed to negligence resulting in the death of their patient in their care. This was a settlement which did not proced to a trial. What does it matter? Chauvin originally accepted a plea deal and then Barr allowed it to be undone and allow a jury trial wher Chauvin was charged with his crimes. Had we not settled, yes there would have been more severe charges levied.

Pretty crass to chide someone's mother-in-law's death, to simp for Derek Chauvin.

 

[Irish#1]

This is entertaining. Everyone agrees that Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found guilty. Cack says the drugs and his physical health played no contributing factor. NorthD says they contributed to some extent. Neither argument makes him more guilty or less guilty.

Judge: Members of the jury, have you reached a verdict?
Foreman: We have your honor.
Judge: What say your jury?
Foreman: Because he was under the influence of narcotics, we find the defendant only 75% guilty.

As I stated before he should have been sat up once he was restrained and he deserves what he got. Yet, to think the drugs and his physical condition didn't have an effect is being short sighted. It doesn't lessen Chauvin's guilt and it doesn't mean the knee on the neck didn't kill him, but George Floyd was under the influence and his body wasn't functioning properly.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Pretty crass to chide someone's mother-in-law's death, to simp for Derek Chauvin.

Please note my shocked face

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

This is entertaining. Everyone agrees that Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found guilty. Cack says the drugs and his physical health played no contributing factor. NorthD says they contributed to some extent. Neither argument makes him more guilty or less guilty.

Judge: Members of the jury, have you reached a verdict?
Foreman: We have your honor.
Judge: What say your jury?
Foreman: Because he was under the influence of narcotics, we find the defendant only 75% guilty.

As I stated before he should have been sat up once he was restrained and he deserves what he got. Yet, to think the drugs and his physical condition didn't have an effect is being short sighted. It doesn't lessen Chauvin's guilt and it doesn't mean the knee on the neck didn't kill him, but George Floyd was under the influence and his body wasn't functioning properly.

For arguments sake can you Please define what a properly functioning body is? If I was on a normal blood thinner prescription that caused my me to not be able to uptake oxygen as efficiently would that make any difference at all relative to an illicit drug?

 

[Rocket89]

Everyone agrees that Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found guilty.

Nah.

 

[IrishLax]

NYPD needs a contract with Khabib Nurmagamedov and Georges St. Pierre. I haven't trained for wrestling in over a decade but I've still been able to restrain belligerent drunk friends on a few occasions (obviously not the same but you get the point).

Joking aside, more training would be good. But that does take more money, and probably more standards that many police can't meet.

In some places, simply paying better might help? I know our local PD gets paid peanuts but I've also seen that some larger city PD's pay pretty well.

Yup, more training and better training. Anecdotally, it's been working in driving down police shootings and excessive force complaints. For too long, police departments have been getting the wrong kind of training and it has just recently started going the other direction. This is an example of why the culture in certain police departments is toxic -- [TWEET]https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1385292068029927426?s=20[/TWEET][TWEET]https://twitter.com/Complex/status/1385331994654093318?s=20[/TWEET]
Like this dude founded a group called "Killology" and he's out here training people to "protect and serve."

 

[IrishLion]

Yup, more training and better training. Anecdotally, it's been working in driving down police shootings and excessive force complaints. For too long, police departments have been getting the wrong kind of training and it has just recently started going the other direction. This is an example of why the culture in certain police departments is toxic -- [TWEET]https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1385292068029927426?s=20[/TWEET][TWEET]https://twitter.com/Complex/status/1385331994654093318?s=20[/TWEET]
Like this dude founded a group called "Killology" and he's out here training people to "protect and serve."

In a fucked up way, I understand the *idea* of what this guy is getting at.

You have 700,000+ LEO's out there that might need to use deadly force some day. At some point, you want someone to train/address them on that possibility, so that they can act when necessary without hesitation or fear, because it might mean saving innocent lives.

So you take the angle "killing someone isn't that big of a deal, really," and try to make them feel more comfortable with the thought of killing another human. The thinking is that it's going to put them in a more reasonable state of mind when it comes time for them to pull the trigger on a bad guy, rather than hesitating and being scared of the personal/moral consequences.

You don't want a cop paralyzed by the implications of killing someone in the moment, you just want them to act.

The problem is that this guy swings the pendulum waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far in that direction, rather than trying to balance the idea of "killing someone may be necessary, and you need to be ready to do so," vs "killing someone is no big deal at all"

 

[Irish#1]

For arguments sake can you Please define what a properly functioning body is? If I was on a normal blood thinner prescription that caused my me to not be able to uptake oxygen as efficiently would that make any difference at all relative to an illicit drug?

Sure it would. Whether the drug is legal or illegal it's effecting your body. For arguments sake Dr. Cackalacky, let's dig a little deeper. The blood thinner was prescribe by a doctor to get your body back closer to normal. You don't take illegal drugs for that purpose.

 

[Irish#1]

Yup, more training and better training. Anecdotally, it's been working in driving down police shootings and excessive force complaints. For too long, police departments have been getting the wrong kind of training and it has just recently started going the other direction. This is an example of why the culture in certain police departments is toxic -- [TWEET]https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1385292068029927426?s=20[/TWEET][TWEET]https://twitter.com/Complex/status/1385331994654093318?s=20[/TWEET]
Like this dude founded a group called "Killology" and he's out here training people to "protect and serve."

With today's SM, I've become a little jaded. Much like the cop that killed the girl with the knife where at first all we heard was she was murdered, then the rest comes out. I wonder what else he said that might put those tweets in a different perspective? Pretty sad if that's all there is to this.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Sounds like somebody has been listening to Sam Harris. I listed to a great deal of his stuff and he had an entire episode on this recently. Fascinating stuff, especially how undertrained our police force is. We need to find a way to to pay better and ensure a certain number of hours/week are devoted to training (weapons, combat, etc).

Bro I have no idea who Sam Harris is lol. Now I have to Google him and check him out.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Bro I have no idea who Sam Harris is lol. Now I have to Google him and check him out.

Crazy, what you were saying could've been lifted from his podcast.

Here it is:

https://samharris.org/podcasts/246-police-training-police-misconduct/

Great discussion on why BJJ should be required, along with ongoing weapons training. If police officers must work 40 hrs in the field, they should have another 5 required hours/week for ongoing training.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

NYPD needs a contract with Khabib Nurmagamedov and Georges St. Pierre. I haven't trained for wrestling in over a decade but I've still been able to restrain belligerent drunk friends on a few occasions (obviously not the same but you get the point).

Joking aside, more training would be good. But that does take more money, and probably more standards that many police can't meet.

In some places, simply paying better might help? I know our local PD gets paid peanuts but I've also seen that some larger city PD's pay pretty well.

Training is going to be expensive. But so is paying out civilian complaints. Simply paying more doesn’t solve any of the issues. The police in my area are the highest paid in the country and still have issues. Better physical preparation is a must and everything to this point from politicians is lip service. I’m on the streets of Brooklyn for 20 years. People do not need less policing. We have tons of societal and cultural issues that need to be addressed. That’s a whole other topic though.
To your other point, I completely agree with the training aspect. I’m a 48 year old BJJ brown belt and I train with a lot of cops. They are investing in their safety and the safety of the public. I believe every cop should be on the mats on a regular basis. The confidence gained from being prepared would be very advantageous. Sorry I quoted you brother, you brought up some good points.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Sure it would. Whether the drug is legal or illegal it's effecting your body. For arguments sake Dr. Cackalacky, let's dig a little deeper. The blood thinner was prescribe by a doctor to get your body back closer to normal. You don't take illegal drugs for that purpose.

You didn’t define what a properly functioning body is. That is of utmost importance here

if a cop choked me out and so died due to my heart stopping due to a lack of oxygen ..would me taking a blood thinner be a contributing factor?

You think meth doesn’t have medical benefits? Marijuana? Does adderall? Xanax? Opioids? Does a prescription from a doctor mean anything other some authorization and recommended limit on dosage? People in California can use marijuana for all kinds of medical reasons legally. I can’t and would be thrown in jail simply for posession

 

[RDU Irish]

You didn’t define what a properly functioning body is. That is of utmost importance here

if a cop choked me out and so died due to my heart stopping due to a lack of oxygen ..would me taking a blood thinner be a contributing factor?

You think meth doesn’t have medical benefits? Marijuana? Does adderall? Xanax? Opioids? Does a prescription from a doctor mean anything other some authorization and recommended limit on dosage? People in California can use marijuana for all kinds of medical reasons legally. I can’t and would be thrown in jail simply for posession

Your comments could be taken as normalizing drug abuse. I hope that is not your intent but George Floyd's drug use was not a healthy choice. Please find me anyone taking hard core street drugs to enhance their life expectancy and I will show you a fucking moron.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Your comments could be taken as normalizing drug abuse. I hope that is not your intent but George Floyd's drug use was not a healthy choice. Please find me anyone taking hard core street drugs to enhance their life expectancy and I will show you a fucking moron.

Aren’t you a libertarian? Forgive me but I had the damndest time keeping up with the extents of personal freedom. lol. In this I am not. I’m simply trying to get to the heart of the matter that there is no normal condition for any person. Any person at any point in time will be in some varying state of “normal” and that trying to claim Floyd having a heart 10g enlarged over a normal person whatever that means... has little to do with how he actually died. Since all the people upset by Chauvin reduction can’t seem to let go of his use of drugs. He had THC in his blood to but in California that’s legal. Elsewhere it’s not. Color me unphased he was using drugs. Almost every American is on some sort of drug illegal or otherwise.

but to your overall point I am pretty much for decriminalization of most scheduled drugs. yes sir.

 

[RDU Irish]

Aren’t you a libertarian?lol. In this I am not. I’m simply trying to get to the heart of the matter that there is no normal condition for any person. Any person at any point in time will be in some varying state of “normal”.

but to your overall point I am pretty much for decriminalization of most scheduled drugs. yes sir.

As I previously stated - I would think the known drug involvement would increase your awareness of possible death instead of the cavalier domination of a tweaker that goes unchallenged by your peers. I have no problem with George Floyd putting his health at risk with stupid consumption choices - he might be alive today if he got "clean" drugs in a regulated industry instead of street stuff laced with fentynl or whatever. At least in my opinion - you apparently don't think the drugs contributed at all.

Given you last pile of responses can I get you to say insurrectionists didn't kill anyone on Jan 6? (LOL - I will kindly step away now)

 

[Irish#1]

You didn’t define what a properly functioning body is. That is of utmost importance here

if a cop choked me out and so died due to my heart stopping due to a lack of oxygen ..would me taking a blood thinner be a contributing factor?

You think meth doesn’t have medical benefits? Marijuana? Does adderall? Xanax? Opioids? Does a prescription from a doctor mean anything other some authorization and recommended limit on dosage? People in California can use marijuana for all kinds of medical reasons legally. I can’t and would be thrown in jail simply for posession

Cack, you're an okay guy, but down playing the qualifications of a doctor to prove your point is sad.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Huhhhh now we pivoting to insurrection requires death? Weird. I don’t think insurrection is defines by deaths that did or do not occur

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Cack, you're an okay guy, but down playing the qualifications of a doctor to prove your point is sad.

Just ok lol. Alright I guess increasing the significance of illicit drug use to make a point is a ok too. Cool. Opioid prescriptions are ok. marijuana prescriptions are not. I think I got it.

 

[Irish#1]

Just ok lol. Alright I guess increasing the significance of illicit drug use to make a point is a ok too. Cool. Opioid prescriptions are ok. marijuana prescriptions are not. I think I got it.

You only get an "OK" until you see the light! lol

I didn't increase the significance of illegal drugs. I'm simply saying a trained professional is prescribing a drug and dosage level based on an examination, tests and medical history. George Floyd was buying drugs off the street without being under the care of a doctor. The opioid crisis and legalization of pot is another conversation, but nice try.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

You only get an "OK" until you see the light! lol

I didn't increase the significance of illegal drugs. I'm simply saying a trained professional is prescribing a drug and dosage level based on an examination, tests and medical history. George Floyd was buying drugs off the street without being under the care of a doctor. The opioid crisis and legalization of pot is another conversation, but nice try.

It’s exactly the same conversation. Self medication versus prescription abuse versus legality and a doctors role in it is all the same conversation. Can’t have one without the other.