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Trump Wins Wisconsin ... Again!

Trump Wins Wisconsin ... Again!

Final Wisconsin recount tally strengthens Trump's victory - LA Times
Michael Finnegan
DEC. 12, 2016, 3:47 P.M.

Donald Trump slightly widened his lead over Hillary Clinton in a recount of Wisconsin’s presidential contest, leaving him more than 22,000 votes ahead in the final tally.

The results effectively ended the recount efforts of Green Party presidential hopeful Jill Stein in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan, the crucial Rust Belt states that Trump won by narrow margins.

Courts blocked the recounts that Stein had sought in Pennsylvania, which certified its results on Monday, and Michigan.

The Wisconsin recount that was completed Monday increased Trump’s victory margin there by 131 votes. He won 1,405,284 votes -- 22,748 more than Clinton.

"The biggest reason for these small differences between the unofficial results on election night, the counties' original canvasses and the recount results is human error,” said Michael Haas, administrator of the Wisconsin Elections Commission.

“Some voters do not follow the instructions and mark their ballots correctly for the machines can count them. In the tight deadlines to report the results, election officials make math mistakes, we forget things, we accidentally transpose numbers.”

Stein had argued that voting machines in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan were susceptible to hacking, but produced no evidence of wrongdoing.

“This recount was never about changing the outcome; it was about validating the vote and restoring confidence in our voting system to Americans across the country who have doubts,” Stein said in a written statement.
 

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Trump Wins Again in Pennslyvania

Trump Wins Again in Pennslyvania

Recount Efforts End: Trump Wins in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania - ABC News
By MARC LEVY AND SCOTT BAUER, ASSOCIATED PRESS
PHILADELPHIA — Dec 12, 2016, 11:50 PM ET

Presidential election recount efforts came to an end Monday in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, with both states certifying Republican Donald Trump as the winner in contests that helped put him over the top in the Electoral College stakes.

Trump's victory in Wisconsin was reaffirmed following a statewide vote recount that showed him defeating Democrat Hillary Clinton by nearly 23,000 votes. Meanwhile, a federal judge issued a stinging rejection of a Green Party-backed request for a presidential recount in Pennsylvania that complained the state's reliance on aging electronic voting machines made it highly vulnerable to hacking.

Green Party candidate Jill Stein successfully requested and paid for the Wisconsin recount while her attempts for similar statewide recounts in Pennsylvania and Michigan were blocked by the courts.

Stein got only about 1 percent of the vote in each of the three states, which Trump narrowly won over Clinton. Stein argued, without evidence, that voting machines in all three states were susceptible to hacking. All three states were crucial to Trump's victory, having last voted for a Republican for president in the 1980s.

The numbers barely budged in Wisconsin after nearly 3 million votes were recounted. Trump, a billionaire New York real estate mogul, picked up 131 votes and won by 22,748 votes. The final results changed just 0.06 percent.

Trump took to Twitter to celebrate the recount result.

"The final Wisconsin vote is in and guess what - we just picked up an additional 131 votes," he tweeted. "The Dems and Green Party can now rest. Scam!"

Stein said she was disappointed not all Wisconsin counties did hand recounts, although most did. She said the goal of the recount was never to change the outcome but to validate the vote and restore confidence in the system.

"The recount in Wisconsin raised a number of important election integrity issues that bear further assessment and serious action to ensure we have integrity and confidence in our electoral system," she said, without naming what they were.

Wisconsin Elections Commission Chairman Mark Thomsen said before certifying the recount results there was no evidence of a hack.

In Pennsylvania, state officials certified the results of the election in the hours following the decision by U.S. District Judge Paul S. Diamond.

Trump beat Clinton in the state by about 44,000 votes out of 6 million cast, or less than 1 percent, according to the final tally after weeks of counting provisional and overseas ballots. Green Party voters had petitioned some counties to do partial recounts, affecting few votes, county officials said.

Diamond said there were at least six grounds that required him to reject the Green Party's lawsuit, which had been opposed by Trump, the Pennsylvania Republican Party and the Pennsylvania attorney general's office.

Suspicion of a hacked Pennsylvania election "borders on the irrational" while granting the Green Party's recount bid could "ensure that no Pennsylvania vote counts" given Tuesday's federal deadline to certify the vote for the Electoral College, wrote Diamond, an appointee of Republican former President George W. Bush.

"Most importantly, there is no credible evidence that any 'hack' occurred, and compelling evidence that Pennsylvania's voting system was not in any way compromised," Diamond wrote.

He said the lawsuit suffered from a lack of standing, potentially the lack of federal jurisdiction and an "unexplained, highly prejudicial" wait before filing last week's lawsuit, four weeks after the Nov. 8 election.

The decision was the Green Party's latest roadblock in Pennsylvania after hitting numerous walls in county and state courts. Green Party-backed lawyers argue it was possible that computer hackers changed the election outcome and that Pennsylvania's heavy use of paperless machines makes it a prime target. Stein also contended Pennsylvania has erected unconstitutional barriers to voters seeking a recount.

A lawyer for the Green Party members said Monday they were disappointed and unable to immediately say whether they would appeal.

"But one thing is clear," said the lawyer, Ilann Maazel. "The Pennsylvania election system is not fair to voters and voters don't know if their votes counted, and that's a very large problem."

A federal judge halted Michigan's recount last week after three days. Trump won Michigan by fewer than 11,000 votes out of nearly 4.8 million votes cast.
 

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http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/12/trum...ng-secretary-of-state-on-tuesday-morning.html
CNBC.com staff | @CNBC
6 Hours Ago

Exxon Mobil chairman and CEO Rex Tillerson has been picked as U.S. President-elect Donald Trump for the post of secretary of state, NBC News reported Monday, capping weeks of speculation that included a close political ally and a sharp critic.

Trump took again to Twitter to state he would announce the choice on Tuesday.

But two sources familiar with the process told NBC News that Trump has already picked Tillerson. The 64-year old Tillerson has negotiated business deals in Russia that led to a working relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin. He has spent his entire career at the company now known as Exxon Mobil.

...

The U.S. Senate must confirm the cabinet-level position, with rumblings that some members of Trump's Republican party are uneasy about the business leader as the nation's top diplomat. Upon taking office, Trump would formally nominate Tillerson for confirmation by the Senate. If confirmed, Tillerson would be fourth in line to the presidency.
 

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http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/12/trum...e-of-his-businesses-until-next-month-nbc.html
Peter Alexander and Daniella Silva
2 Hours Ago

President-elect Donald Trump has canceled his planned Dec. 15 address set to explain how he would address his business conflicts of interest prior to assuming the White House, a senior transition source told NBC News. Instead, the announcement is delayed until January.

The news of the cancellation was first reported by Bloomberg Monday evening, with Trump transition officials telling the publication that there is no date for the announcement, but it will be prior to his inauguration on Jan. 20.
 

IrishinSyria

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So much money wasted that could have gone to good use.

Most of it went from liberals and Jill stein to state governments and election officials. Not sure why you wouldn't see that as net positive unless this post is kayfabe in which case carry on.
 

BGIF

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Most of it went from liberals and Jill stein to state governments and election officials. Not sure why you wouldn't see that as net positive unless this post is kayfabe in which case carry on.


A word of McMahonion proportions frequently used in connection with passage of the ACA and Obama's use of EOs.
 

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Trump picks ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson as choice for secretary of state - CNNPolitics.com

(CNN)President-elect Donald Trump has chosen ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson to serve as secretary of state, the transition team announced Tuesday, setting up a heated Senate confirmation battle and signaling a desire to ease Washington's estrangement with Russia.

Like Trump, Tillerson, 64, has no formal foreign policy experience, but has built close relationships with many world leaders by closing massive deals across Eurasia and the Middle East on behalf of the world's largest energy company.
"His tenacity, broad experience and deep understanding of geopolitics make him an excellent choice for Secretary of State," Trump said in the statement.
Tillerson was originally a dark horse for the secretary of state nomination, but emerged from a lengthy public interview and vetting process that included better-known quantities like former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, 2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney and Sen. Bob Corker, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations committee.
 
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ODNI and FBI don't agree with CIA conclusion

ODNI and FBI don't agree with CIA conclusion

Exclusive: Top U.S. spy agency has not embraced CIA assessment on Russia hacking - sources | Reuters
By Mark Hosenball and Jonathan Landay | WASHINGTON
Dec 13, 2016 | 8:14am EST

By Mark Hosenball and Jonathan Landay | WASHINGTON

The overseers of the U.S. intelligence community have not embraced a CIA assessment that Russian cyber attacks were aimed at helping Republican President-elect Donald Trump win the 2016 election, three American officials said on Monday.

While the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) does not dispute the CIA's analysis of Russian hacking operations, it has not endorsed their assessment because of a lack of conclusive evidence that Moscow intended to boost Trump over Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton, said the officials, who declined to be named.

The position of the ODNI, which oversees the 17 agency-strong U.S. intelligence community, could give Trump fresh ammunition to dispute the CIA assessment, which he rejected as "ridiculous" in weekend remarks, and press his assertion that no evidence implicates Russia in the cyber attacks.

Trump's rejection of the CIA's judgment marks the latest in a string of disputes over Russia's international conduct that have erupted between the president-elect and the intelligence community he will soon command.

An ODNI spokesman declined to comment on the issue.

"ODNI is not arguing that the agency (CIA) is wrong, only that they can't prove intent," said one of the three U.S. officials. "Of course they can't, absent agents in on the decision-making in Moscow."

The Federal Bureau of Investigation, whose evidentiary standards require it to make cases that can stand up in court, declined to accept the CIA's analysis - a deductive assessment of the available intelligence - for the same reason, the three officials said.


The ODNI, headed by James Clapper, was established after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the recommendation of the commission that investigated the attacks. The commission, which identified major intelligence failures, recommended the office's creation to improve coordination among U.S. intelligence agencies.

In October, the U.S. government formally accused Russia of a campaign of cyber attacks against American political organizations ahead of the Nov. 8 presidential election. Democratic President Barack Obama has said he warned Russian President Vladimir Putin about consequences for the attacks.

Reports of the assessment by the CIA, which has not publicly disclosed its findings, have prompted congressional leaders to call for an investigation.

Obama last week ordered intelligence agencies to review the cyber attacks and foreign intervention in the presidential election and to deliver a report before he turns power over to Trump on Jan. 20.

The CIA assessed after the election that the attacks on political organizations were aimed at swaying the vote for Trump because the targeting of Republican organizations diminished toward the end of the summer and focused on Democratic groups, a senior U.S. official told Reuters on Friday.

Moreover, only materials filched from Democratic groups - such as emails stolen from John Podesta, the Clinton campaign chairman - were made public via WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy organization, and other outlets, U.S. officials said.

"THIN REED"

The CIA conclusion was a "judgment based on the fact that Russian entities hacked both Democrats and Republicans and only the Democratic information was leaked," one of the three officials said on Monday.

"(It was) a thin reed upon which to base an analytical judgment," the official added.


Republican Senator John McCain said on Monday there was "no information" that Russian hacking of American political organizations was aimed at swaying the outcome of the election.

"It's obvious that the Russians hacked into our campaigns," McCain said. "But there is no information that they were intending to affect the outcome of our election and that's why we need a congressional investigation," he told Reuters.

McCain questioned an assertion made on Sunday by Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus, tapped by Trump to be his White House chief of staff, that there were no hacks of computers belonging to Republican organizations.

"Actually, because Mr. Priebus said that doesn't mean it's true," said McCain. "We need a thorough investigation of it, whether both (Democratic and Republican organizations) were hacked into, what the Russian intentions were. We cannot draw a conclusion yet. That's why we need a thorough investigation."

In an angry letter sent to ODNI chief Clapper on Monday, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes said he was “dismayed” that the top U.S. intelligence official had not informed the panel of the CIA’s analysis and the difference between its judgment and the FBI’s assessment.

Noting that Clapper in November testified that intelligence agencies lacked strong evidence linking Russian cyber attacks to the WikiLeaks disclosures, Nunes asked that Clapper, together with CIA and FBI counterparts, brief the panel by Friday on the latest intelligence assessment of Russian hacking during the election campaign.
 
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IrishinSyria

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So the assessment ODNI is endorsing is that the Russians were behind it but we don't know why and the CIA is saying that Russians did it with a goal of helping trump?

Seems like a pretty simple application of inductive reasoning to get from one to the other. Pretty common in analysis.

(Me in Afghanistan in a world without analysis: "sir, the Taliban keeps putting IEDs in our path."
Captain P: "sure, but do you know why?"
Me: "uhhh... because they want to kill us."
Captain P: "yeah but do you KNOW that or are you just guessing SGT?")

More importantly, do Russian motives matter? Is it materially different if they launched cyberattacks on the US with the intent of getting Trump elected or if they just did it with the intent of ducking with us?
 

phgreek

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So the assessment ODNI is endorsing is that the Russians were behind it but we don't know why and the CIA is saying that Russians did it with a goal of helping trump?

Seems like a pretty simple application of inductive reasoning to get from one to the other. Pretty common in analysis.

(Me in Afghanistan in a world without analysis: "sir, the Taliban keeps putting IEDs in our path."
Captain P: "sure, but do you know why?"
Me: "uhhh... because they want to kill us."
Captain P: "yeah but do you KNOW that or are you just guessing SGT?")

More importantly, do Russian motives matter? Is it materially different if they launched cyberattacks on the US with the intent of getting Trump elected or if they just did it with the intent of ducking with us?

Truth is, I don't like that they hacked us at all.

The stuff released is not the stuff folks should worry about. You can't compromise, blackmail, or coerce anyone with shit that has already been used to embarrass them.

The stuff everyone should worry about is the stuff they didn't release, because that has the potential to cause harm to foreign policy and national security.

I really couldn't guess the specific intent if Russia was the source of Wiki leaks info. But I can say it sure wasn't done for the good of anyone but mother Russia.

If it is good for Russia, chances are it isn't good for the US and her allies.
 

Whiskeyjack

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I'd normally share this in the Foreign Policy thread, but it seems to be more relevant here atm. The American Interest's Damir Marusic just published an article titled "What Does Russia Really Want?":

The New York Times and the Washington Post ran back-to-back stories over the weekend reporting on closed-door briefings that the CIA had given members of Congress on Russia’s interference in the recent U.S. elections. The stories revealed no real new information on the hacks themselves—the consensus among the Intelligence Community that Russia was probably behind the DNC leaks was reported as early as July, and the subject was debated by the candidates themselves—but they did contain a tantalizing new tidbit: The CIA had concluded that since the Russians had compromised both the RNC and the DNC but leaked only the DNC’s documents to Wikileaks, they were actively trying to help Donald Trump get elected.

This has predictably kicked off a political brawl on the Hill. Republican hawks like Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham, both suspicious of President-elect Donald Trump’s stated intention to attempt to cooperate with Russia in the future, have been leading the charge on the Right to have these events investigated—probably looking less to delegitimize Trump’s victory than to try to tie his hands out of the gate on foreign policy. They have the support of Republican leadership in both the House and Senate, who on Monday released statements calling for further inquiries. The Democrats have been more nakedly partisan. President Obama has ordered an investigation, and has asked that as much of it be declassified as possible and released to the public before the inauguration. Even more aggressively, John Podesta is pushing for electors to get intelligence briefings ahead of their official vote on December 19. Reversing the results of the election is surely a moon-shot, but landing a few blows on Donald Trump on the way to the White House is all but assured.

One ought not blame politicians for engaging in politics; it’s never a pretty sight, but it’s expected behavior. But their self-serving machinations have prompted various pundits, many of whom should know better, to lose their bearings. What is the Russians’ strategy in having Trump elected? What do they want? What is Putin’s next step? Even the usually collected David Frum was channeling Franklin Foer at his most conspiratorial in his column today, speculating about Manchurian Candidate-like scenarios, and even going so far as to suggest that the Trump campaign was instructing the Russians on how best to help it.

There is already pushback coming to this kind of thinking from the Intelligence Community itself. Reuters is reporting that the Office of the Director of National Intelligence has not fully embraced the CIA’s conclusions, while Newsweek got some ex-spooks to try to lower the temperature of the discussion, pointing out that leaks like these, coming from politicians rather than analysts themselves, are usually incomplete at best, and could be misleading.

But you don’t need to have access to top secret intelligence to be suspicious of this kind of speculation about Russia’s full motives. Everyone agrees that Russia is a malevolent actor that does not have the United States’ best interests at heart. And there is not much doubt among all concerned that the Russians were behind the hacking of the DNC. There is no need to go further, however. Some common sense and a little knowledge of recent history go a long way to suggesting that the CIA itself may not have intended to imply much more than that. The pols and pundits have completely lost the thread.

The main problem with assuming that Vladimir Putin and his inner circle of strongmen had a preference either way is that it imparts a certain farsighted strategic genius to a regime that has shown little evidence of possessing it. Putin is a world-class tactician, but is not an accomplished strategist.

That is not to say that the Kremlin is without a larger vision. On the contrary, its vision is quite well-defined. It sees itself inhabiting a zero-sum Hobbesian world, an order ruled not by norms but organized around state power. It sees Western demands for accountability, democracy, and the establishment of the rule of law not merely as threats to its own way of running its affairs, but as hypocrisies in their own right. The West lives in the same Hobbesian world, Putin and his cohort reason, and they wield those concepts as cudgels to bring low their rivals. But worse than that, Westerners appear to be blind to their own hypocrisy, and are genuinely baffled when civil wars fill the void left behind by a toppled autocracy.

This vision helps explain how Putin and his inner circle have understood world events since coming to power in 2000. The Iraq War, the Rose Revolution in Georgia, the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, the Arab Spring, and the Libya War were all seen by the Kremlin as part and parcel of the same thing: Western attempts at expansion. Civil society organizations and NGOs that help organize political parties and encourage democratization are quite clearly all funded by the CIA. These assets are all activated at the opportune time to force regime change—which is what the Westerners are really after.

Enter Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. With Qaddafi’s freshly bayonetted corpse still warm in Libya, Clinton began criticizing widespread reports of ballot-stuffing by pro-Putin goons across Russia during the December 2011 legislative elections. “The Russian people, like people everywhere, deserve the right to have their voices heard and their votes counted,” she said on December 5. The next day, she called for investigations of the irregularities. As Russian organizers began preparing for what would become known as the first of the Bolotnaya protests that weekend, Putin didn’t hesitate to connect the dots: “[Opposition leaders] heard the signal and with the support of the U.S. State Department began active work,” he thundered. “We are all grownups here. We all understand the organizers are acting according to a well-known scenario and in their own mercenary political interests.”

By March of 2012, Putin was re-elected for a third term, and after violent protests marred his inauguration in May, he started rolling out increasingly repressive measures to geld the opposition in Russia. By the time the Maidan protests had sprung up in Ukraine in late 2013, Clinton was no longer at State. Putin almost certainly saw in Ukraine’s “Revolution of Dignity” what would have happened to him if he hadn’t acted forthrightly two years earlier. And though she was not around for Ukraine, Clinton’s role in his own troubles was neither forgotten nor forgiven.

The paradox of Putin and his siloviki is that their coherent, Hobbesian vision of the world does not lead them to a positive strategic program. Instead, it has them constantly fighting rearguard actions, trying to weaken and forestall what they correctly judge to be a far mightier competitor in the West. In many ways, EU expansion is just as threatening to the Kremlin as NATO expansion, as it represents another side of the same Western coin. (Similarly, grasping that fact helps explain why no amount of explanation that NATO is not meant to threaten Russia reliably falls on deaf ears in Moscow; NATO membership, which is correctly seen as a first step towards Westernization, is threat enough.)

These rearguard, defensive actions against the West are fought on many fronts. Russia has waged various small wars along its periphery since the fall of the Soviet Union, for example. These wars never really end, leaving behind smoldering dumpster fires that deter the West from further encroaching on what Moscow sees as its privileged zone of interest. Then there are the more traditional cloak and dagger operations, run deep inside enemy territory. Those can include “wet work” like the poisoning of dissident spy Alexander Litvinenko with Polonium in London, or more paramilitary-style efforts, such as the recent botched coup in Montenegro. Or they can be more political in nature, such as providing financing and training for ascendant populist parties across Europe, and bolstering their narratives through the creative use of propaganda, using state-run media outlets such as RT and Sputnik. The goal of all these actions is the same, however: to sow chaos and weaken the opponent.

All these factors come together to provide an explanation for just how and why the Russians did interfere in our most recent elections. First and foremost, the purpose of the operation was to wreak havoc. It’s all Putin’s Russia is ever up to these days: there is no deeper ideology at work, beyond a kind of reductive cynicism that sees everything in zero-sum terms. Any weakened, disorganized opponent is inherently good for Russia.

Even without Russian help, Trump had proven himself to be the chaos candidate early in the primaries. Insofar as Russian spymasters sought to help Trump, it was to empower the candidate who would be most likely to upset the status quo. And the rationale extends beyond domestic politics. Trump’s iconoclasm, much like that of his fellow travelers in Europe, extends to his foreign policy preferences: the rise of the populists comes at the expense of institutions such as the EU and NATO—another zero-sum win.

But even if Trump had not emerged, it’s likely that the Russians would have intervened in the elections against Hillary Clinton anyway. Even a muscular interventionist with no love for Russia like Marco Rubio might have benefited. The term “ratfucking”—spitefully using underhanded political tricks to screw over a rival—is attributed to one of Richard Nixon’s campaign strategists, but is a concept all too familiar to the graying ex-KGB specters in the Kremlin. Hillary Clinton probably sealed her fate in 2011 when she was widely seen to be the hand behind middle class uprisings that shook up Putin’s fabled Power Vertical. Something like that does not go unanswered—she had it coming to her. Who wins, after all, is immaterial. If Clinton could have managed to prevail, she would suffer while doing so.

Push and prod a level-headed Russia analyst around town, and you’re likely to get some version of the above theory. And indeed even the CIA analysis, as reported by the Post and Times, does not go beyond what I have outlined above. Yes, the Russians intervened in our elections. Yes, it appears they intervened on behalf of Donald Trump, and acted against Hillary Clinton. Yes, they acted malevolently, against the interests of our country, and are trying to undermine our faith in our democratic institutions. But there are no further conclusions to be drawn from the evidence. It’s only political spin, pundit paranoia, or some unholy admixture of the two that conjures up Manchurian Candidate-like scenarios from the CIA’s stated conclusions.

The finale of the 1995 film The Usual Suspects features a memorable line delivered by Kevin Spacey: “The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing the world that he didn’t exist.” The obverse applies to Vladimir Putin, whose strength is proportional to the West believing that he is behind every setback. The kind of misapprehension of exactly what Russia is up to described above thus directly plays into the Kremlin’s hands. Unlike during the Cold War, there is no positive ideological program that Russia is trying achieve. Its sole goal is to make us weaker. And the longer we chase our own tails, the more exhausted we will become.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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Rex Tillerson receiving a friendship award from Putin in 2013.

Tillerson won the award after signing deals with the state-owned Russian oil company Rosneft, whose chief, Igor Sechin, is seen as Putin's loyal lieutenant. The partnership had begun a drilling program in the Arctic’s Kara Sea, where Exxon made a find, and had agreed to explore shale oil areas of West Siberia and deep waters of the Black Sea. But U.S. sanctions against Russia over the annexation of Crimea kicked in and the partnership was put on hold.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ary-of-state-have-one/?utm_term=.2b8f02ed4002

So let's review: Russia has shale oil that only Exxon Mobile USA has the technology to get to. Russia needs cash badly because of cheap oil prices, but they still dominate natural gas sales to Europe. The US slapped Russia with sanctions, something Republicans said wasn't a tough enough stance from a weak Obama. The sanctions barred Exxon from continuing their Russian projects. Rex Tillerson wanted the sanctions lifted so he and Russia can get paid to drill baby drill.

Can someone try to defend this move for me? What am I missing?
 
C

Cackalacky

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Rex Tillerson receiving a friendship award from Putin in 2013.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ary-of-state-have-one/?utm_term=.2b8f02ed4002

So let's review: Russia has shale oil that only Exxon Mobile USA has the technology to get to. Russia needs cash badly because of cheap oil prices, but they still dominate natural gas sales to Europe. The US slapped Russia with sanctions, something Republicans said wasn't a tough enough stance from a weak Obama. The sanctions barred Exxon from continuing their Russian projects. Rex Tillerson wanted the sanctions lifted so he and Russia can get paid to drill baby drill.

Can someone try to defend this move for me? What am I missing?

Meh... who cares. Benghazi! Emails!

Trump is going to make Hardings administration look like amatuers.
 

NorthDakota

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Rex Tillerson receiving a friendship award from Putin in 2013.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ary-of-state-have-one/?utm_term=.2b8f02ed4002

So let's review: Russia has shale oil that only Exxon Mobile USA has the technology to get to. Russia needs cash badly because of cheap oil prices, but they still dominate natural gas sales to Europe. The US slapped Russia with sanctions, something Republicans said wasn't a tough enough stance from a weak Obama. The sanctions barred Exxon from continuing their Russian projects. Rex Tillerson wanted the sanctions lifted so he and Russia can get paid to drill baby drill.

Can someone try to defend this move for me? What am I missing?

I have no problems with Russia. It'll be really great when all you old people who hate them so much die off.
 

Booslum31

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Ha...searching to see if Russia might have tried to impact the outcome of our election. It doesn't seem to matter that the mainstream media's sole purpose in life has been to "impact the outcome" of the election. And now they are really really sad that they failed. Must have been the Russians!
 

phgreek

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Ha...searching to see if Russia might have tried to impact the outcome of our election. It doesn't seem to matter that the mainstream media's sole purpose in life has been to "impact the outcome" of the election. And now they are really really sad that they failed. Must have been the Russians!

Ok this perspective is funny...I see it a little differently

The reality is MSM did fail in their propaganda campaign, but the Russian involvement is fairly likely at this point, and aren't a contrived distraction.

But I can laugh my ass off at liberal media types who rode on the credibility of those who came before them, that are now forced to make their own credibility...can't put the toothpaste back in the tube...they colluded with the DNC and Clinton...there is simply no escaping that fact, and no benefit of the doubt afforded them anymore...no one can blindly challenge those who question media types. Their days in the desert are upon them, and I'll enjoy every step they trudge.
 

kmoose

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You somehow turned "I don't need to listen to daily Intel briefs because I'm smart "(?????????????????????) into a story about how you remember things.

You think that these briefs are about...repetition? This is a guy who has never held public office of any kind, ever, has never been part of the military in any capacity whatsoever.

He needs to gain actual knowledge, for the first time, ASAP about the numerous foreign policy decisions he will have to make.

No $hit, Sherlock! I didn't say that he shouldn't take the briefings. Once again, you, like the rest of the malcontents who just need something to be angry about, are ignoring that Trump said that the repetition of the briefings was his big issue. As was previously pointed out, that aspect will probably be tailored to his preferences.
 

CrownRoyal

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You somehow turned "I don't need to listen to daily Intel briefs because I'm smart "(?????????????????????) into a story about how you remember things.

You think that these briefs are about...repetition? This is a guy who has never held public office of any kind, ever, has never been part of the military in any capacity whatsoever.

He needs to gain actual knowledge, for the first time, ASAP about the numerous foreign policy decisions he will have to make.

LOL, look where all that experience got us the last 8 years!
The World is not ending. Get a grip, Man
 

IrishinSyria

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No $hit, Sherlock! I didn't say that he shouldn't take the briefings. Once again, you, like the rest of the malcontents who just need something to be angry about, are ignoring that Trump said that the repetition of the briefings was his big issue. As was previously pointed out, that aspect will probably be tailored to his preferences.

But that's just not true... the PDBs are not and never have been repeat information every day... if you don't believe me, the CIA's released a bunch of declassified ones here.

Trump was not saying I want less repetition, he was literally saying that he doesn't need a daily brief.

When they don't have anything to say on a topic, they say "there is nothing of significance to report." You can see an example of that in this one... it's not like the CIA has been wasting the time of presidents for 50 years and only now someone has realized they don't need to repeat the same stuff over and over again.
 

NorthDakota

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But that's just not true... the PDBs are not and never have been repeat information every day... if you don't believe me, the CIA's released a bunch of declassified ones here.
it's not like the CIA has been wasting the time of presidents for 50 years and only now someone has realized they don't need to repeat the same stuff over and over again.

Hey one of the first steps to job enrichment is to analyze whether tasks being performed are necessary.

But on a serious note, maybe give him a memo with some bullet points or something
 
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IrishinSyria

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*just saw your edit. n/m. Bullet points are probably a good idea for him. Lots of pictures too.
 

phgreek

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*just saw your edit. n/m. Bullet points are probably a good idea for him. Lots of pictures too.

Maybe they could use Tom Ridge's color code to help him out....:)

I wish he'd hurry and get the SCOTUS nominee decided so I can stop caring til that confirmation hearing.
 

Goldedommer44

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By the sound of it no matter what evidence is shown to you the hacked emails of 2 scientists swings your thoughts a certain way.

It is very simple that reducing the CO2 cleaners of the world will allow CO2 to rise. No to mention the release of Carbon by burning down the forests. You are correct in the fact that the US has planted more trees then are being cut down but this is not a US problem this is a WORLD problem. Here is your evidence

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/deforestation-and-global-warming/

The article you posted about temperatures cooling is based on only surface temperature not surface and Ocean temps when you combine the two you get record all time highs. Here is a link


https://weather.com/news/news/breitbart-misleads-americans-climate-change




If you must, go ahead. I prefer to look at the preponderance of the data and examine the relationships.



Yes, but what can you prove by this?




Two problems with this argument. One, linking deforestation to CO2 production which are separate events, WITHOUT providing causal evidence linking the two (E.g. correlation, which you have not shown, is still not causation). Second, man has also reforested much of the areas he has cut down in the United States. In fact, we have more robust forest lands than at any time in our history.



'We' believe so based upon data that is available.




Show data and link the two (CO2 production and deforestation affect on CO2 levels), otherwise this is a straw man argument.



At the moment I don't have time to watch the specific video; however, I have done quite a bit of research into CO2 (which is one of four major components of our atmosphere and always has been) and there has not been a single *conclusive* study that shows CO2 production, at levels man produces (which is a very small percentage of the whole), will affect climate. Most of the purported studies cannot be conclusive and are often quite debated.



Some of these points are simply not true. a) I have posted two links showing that climatologists funded by government have willingly manipulated their data, lied about it and tried to cover it up, and tried to take over periodical research to drown out opposing opinion. b) I just posted a link above which shows that the earth is cooling at the fastest in recent memory, albeit this is a relatively small sample size since the 1970s.

The rest of your conclusions are based upon assumptions, some proven manipulations and cover-ups, and highly debated science that has not been proven to scientist's satisfactions.

I won't debate you that we have increased CO2 in the atmosphere, though the amount is very little compared to the existing levels which are completely natural and part of the life-cycle of nature.

I also won't debate that we were in a modest (by earth's standards) warming trend until the last decade or so, at which point the data seems to have reversed and we are in a bit of a small cooling trend.

I will debate that you can prove CO2 causes earth warming, that man can contribute enough to cause substantial problems, and that the ice melting is as bad as reported (again evidence exists this has been severely overstated, particularly at the poles), and that we are in anything other than a normal earth warming/cooling cycle.
 

Bluto

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kmoose

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By the sound of it no matter what evidence is shown to you the hacked emails of 2 scientists swings your thoughts a certain way.

It is very simple that reducing the CO2 cleaners of the world will allow CO2 to rise. No to mention the release of Carbon by burning down the forests. You are correct in the fact that the US has planted more trees then are being cut down but this is not a US problem this is a WORLD problem. Here is your evidence

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/deforestation-and-global-warming/

The article you posted about temperatures cooling is based on only surface temperature not surface and Ocean temps when you combine the two you get record all time highs. Here is a link


https://weather.com/news/news/breitbart-misleads-americans-climate-change

We'll just make more jam and jelly! :wink:
 
B

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I have no problems with Russia. It'll be really great when all you old people who hate them so much die off.

Is 27 old up there in North Dakota? When all of the old people do die off, Russia will be a shell of its 20th century self, as I pointed out in a recent post.

I don't "hate" the Russians, I do hate the idea of an American President not having the country's best interests in mind. Considering how oblivious Trump is on foreign policy, he may not even know what America's interests are; and considering how much of an egomaniac he is, he probably doesn't care to find out.

I share the opinion of guys like Michael Morell (I), ex-CIA Acting Director, who said "I have no doubt that Putin thinks that he's an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation."

There is no reason to align with Russia on any matter in Eastern Europe or Central Asia, and it's debatable in the Middle East. But here we are with an administration dripping with weird Russian friendships and friendly policy rhetoric.
 

IrishLax

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Is 27 old up there in North Dakota? When all of the old people do die off, Russia will be a shell of its 20th century self, as I pointed out in a recent post.

I don't "hate" the Russians, I do hate the idea of an American President not having the country's best interests in mind. Considering how oblivious Trump is on foreign policy, he may not even know what America's interests are; and considering how much of an egomaniac he is, he probably doesn't care to find out.

I share the opinion of guys like Michael Morell (I), ex-CIA Acting Director, who said "I have no doubt that Putin thinks that he's an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation."

There is no reason to align with Russia on any matter in Eastern Europe or Central Asia, and it's debatable in the Middle East. But here we are with an administration dripping with weird Russian friendships and friendly policy rhetoric.

Yeah, I think it should be troubling to everyone how he cozies up to Russia while intentional provoking China. One is a country we can grab by the balls, and the other is probably the single entity on the globe we really shouldn't fuck with. So his current play is ostensibly the opposite of what it should be.

My only hope is that this is all gamesmanship (doubtful) and by antagonizing China he puts a little scare into them before achieving an effective compromise... and by befriending Russian business interests, maybe he can paint an alternative relationship for the oligarchs that convinces them to install new leadership in place of Putin. I put those odds at 1%, it's more likely than not that Trump just has no clue what he is doing and is going to cause irreparable harm.
 
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