Trump Presidency

[phgreek]

That's flat out scary. Unless the president is Nostradamus, he/ she needs to start every morning with a cup of coffee and the PDB. No questions asked.

agree...but did the last guy get the PDB every day? Seemed to me he was not a very voracious consumer of intel. Many think he was GREAT...yea I meant to use GREAT.

 

[Irish YJ]

Intel is critical obviously, but are there significant changes and/or updates everyday? I mean if it's a water is wet kinda day, or the average temp this month is 77 and it's 76, is 1 degree enough to warrant a meeting or conference call. Could he be saying he just needs to know what's new or what's changed, not the same song and dance daily?

 

[IrishinSyria]

agree...but did the last guy get the PDB every day? Seemed to me he was not a very voracious consumer of intel. Many think he was GREAT...yea I meant to use GREAT.

Both President Obama and Bush took a briefing pretty much every day post election. And I don't know what would make you say that he wasn't a voracious consumer of intel- I've spoken with a guy who did PDBs for both Bush and Obama and he said both took it very seriously. Bush liked to be briefed while Obama liked to be given the brief and then have the guy answer questions after he'd read through it but both took it seriously.

The critique of Bush not taking OBL seriously is unfair- people involved in the process said there were warnings but none particularized enough to act on. Any critique of Obama not taking intel or national security seriously is equally misplaced.

 

[Irish YJ]

Gap on Russia hacking conclusions between intelligence, FBI - CNNPolitics.com

 

[Buster Bluth]

Intel is critical obviously, but are there significant changes and/or updates everyday? I mean if it's a water is wet kinda day, or the average temp this month is 77 and it's 76, is 1 degree enough to warrant a meeting or conference call. Could he be saying he just needs to know what's new or what's changed, not the same song and dance daily?

That's would be excusable if Trump started with a great deal of knowledge and/or experience. If McCain had won in 2008, he could probably put it in neutral in that department while he focused on the economic calamity taking place.

Given that the economy isn't falling off a cliff and Trump has a serious lack of knowledge on foreign policy (spoken of again and again and again by Republicans and Democrats alike all campaign season...), you'd think he'd want to be in these meetings so when he's in the situation room he'll have a strong sense of going on.

What is happening is pretty clear IMO: Mike Pence is President. The same deal offered to John Kasich was offered to Pence, that he'd run the show while Trump "made America great again," and Pence took it because he was a political dead-ender. So he's attending the meetings in Trump's place because Trump apparently has been things to do, like twitter.

 

[Irish YJ]

That's would be excusable if Trump started with a great deal of knowledge and/or experience. If McCain had won in 2008, he could probably put it in neutral in that department while he focused on the economic calamity taking place.

Given that the economy isn't falling off a cliff and Trump has a serious lack of knowledge on foreign policy (spoken of again and again and again by Republicans and Democrats alike all campaign season...), you'd think he'd want to be in these meetings so when he's in the situation room he'll have a strong sense of going on.

What is happening is pretty clear IMO: Mike Pence is President. The same deal offered to John Kasich was offered to Pence, that he'd run the show while Trump "made America great again," and Pence took it because he was a political dead-ender. So he's attending the meetings in Trump's place because Trump apparently has been things to do, like twitter.

If you are not a fan of Trump's knowledge of foreign policy, wouldn't you be happy that it's getting delegated in part to Pence? After all, Pence is not a fan of Putin, and supported most of the free trade agreements.

And dead ender? I mean after stretches in the House and as Governor, not much left other then various jobs surrounding the POTUS and the POTUS itself. Did pretty well as a dead ender to grab VP. Not supportive of his LGBT stances, but I'd love to see Pence push some of his tax cut and spending limit policy if he is running the country.....

 

[drayer54]

What is happening is pretty clear IMO: Mike Pence is President. The same deal offered to John Kasich was offered to Pence, that he'd run the show while Trump "made America great again," and Pence took it because he was a political dead-ender. So he's attending the meetings in Trump's place because Trump apparently has been things to do, like twitter.

No!

But....

He doesn't even tweet about....

You're wrong, because Trump....

Perhaps it's better this way?

 

[Guest]

Thanks for playing. I apologize but i am not discussing this with you if this is what you really think. I posted a link earlier today where you can go sentence by sentence of your last two posts and everyone of your points is discussed thoroughly and completely debunked. But i doubt you will check it out.

I put two sources in the mainstream media that confirmed the story.

NY Times and the Telegraph

How about you read those instead of being close-minded?

 

[Goldedommer44]

I think it's very interesting that people can actually deny man made climate change. How about we look at this problem from a VERY basic level.

Let me ask you this. Can we all agree that "man" has pumped more CO2 and other greenhouse gas into the atmosphere more then would normally be produced with out man? I would hope the answer is yes.


Can we also agree that "man" has causes massive deforestation? More then would normally would have happened without man? I hope the answer is yes.

Can we also agree that the earth has cycles of warming and cooling that can NOT be influenced by "man"? I hope the answer is yes.


With the fact that we are losing our our forests an an incredible level due to deforestation the earth is not able to absorb the CO2 that is produce tthrough photosynthesis thus making CO2 levels rise to an all time record high.

Now just in case you don't know what and increase in greenhouses gas into the atmosphere can do here is a very basic video to watch.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=m...p-hrtab-900&fr2=p:fp,m:sa&.tsrc=yfp-hrtab-900

Again this is very basic. Most of the warming generated by global warming is stored in the oceans and that is why you are seeing ocean temp rise faster then air temp. The north pole is melting at an alarming rate to a point that it is now navigable by ship. Most people who have a basic understanding of this with say " but the ice in the south pole is increasing" that is true but that increase is still only about 30% of what we are losing in the North which is why sea levels have begun to rise.


There are many factors that have contributed to golobal warming but if we look at it at its most basic level is not very complicated.

Increased CO2 level by man
Deforestation by man have caused CO2 levels and other green house gas to increase
Thus leading to an increase in the earth's temperatures.

The discussion is not is the earth warming, we all know it is the discussion is how much has man contributed to the warming? Based on basic science and common sense I hope we can all say man HAS contributed to the rapid increase in earth temperatures never seen before at this level regardless of the earth's warming and cooling cycles,

I put two sources in the mainstream media that confirmed the story.

NY Times and the Telegraph

How about you read those instead of being close-minded?

 

[Buster Bluth]

If you are not a fan of Trump's knowledge of foreign policy, wouldn't you be happy that it's getting delegated in part to Pence? After all, Pence is not a fan of Putin, and supported most of the free trade agreements.

And dead ender? I mean after stretches in the House and as Governor, not much left other then various jobs surrounding the POTUS and the POTUS itself. Did pretty well as a dead ender to grab VP. Not supportive of his LGBT stances, but I'd love to see Pence push some of his tax cut and spending limit policy if he is running the country.....

I'm not happy about it because Trump should be doing his damn job. He will ultimately be making decisions and we now know for a fact that he isn't being informed. That's just inexcusable and the exact sort of demeanor people were talking about when they said he wasn't fit for the job.

George Bush's presidency was a rough go for the country because he surrounded himself with neoconservatives who had way too much leverage in the Oval Office. Reagan delegated, but he generally stayed on top of things. Bush delegated, and Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Cheney fucked it all up because Bush simply wasn't being informed of important opinions contrary to his team's.

I see more Bush than Reagan. Mattis is a good pick (but his hard line on Iran is worrisome), but the rumor of John Bolton as Deputy Sec of State should freak everyone out. That guy still defends the Iraq War and proposes that we bomb Iran whenever he can. Now picture that sorta guy in the situation room when Trump feels slighted and had Central Command at his disposal instead of twitter...

And yeah Mike Pence was a dead-ender. The same with Giuliani and plenty of the guys who took the risk of signing up for Trump. It paid off wonderfully for them, no doubt.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm not happy about it because Trump should be doing his damn job. He will ultimately be making decisions and we now know for a fact that he isn't being informed. That's just inexcusable and the exact sort of demeanor people were talking about when they said he wasn't fit for the job.

George Bush's presidency was a rough go for the country because he surrounded himself with neoconservatives who had way too much leverage in the Oval Office. Reagan delegated, but he generally stayed on top of things. Bush delegated, and Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Cheney fucked it all up because Bush simply wasn't being informed of important opinions contrary to his team's.

I see more Bush than Reagan. Mattis is a good pick (but his hard line on Iran is worrisome), but the rumor of John Bolton as Deputy Sec of State should freak everyone out. That guy still defends the Iraq War and proposes that we bomb Iran whenever he can. Now picture that sorta guy in the situation room when Trump feels slighted and had Central Command at his disposal instead of twitter...

And yeah Mike Pence was a dead-ender. The same with Giuliani and plenty of the guys who took the risk of signing up for Trump. It paid off wonderfully for them, no doubt.

I understand why Bolton freaks out libs, but he's not freaking out most GOPers unless your Rand Paul. He's not liked by everyone, but not freaking them out either. George Menbiot doesn't care for him much either lol.. Meh. He's conservative, pushy, loud, and has tossed stones at Obama and the Clintons. I don't think Iran should be bombed right now, but a harder line is needed (simply my opinion). Same with N Korea. Powell didn't care for him, and neither do I really, but I'm not going to chicken little his nomination. He's an opionated blowhard like a lot of folks in government and on IE. He does have a lot of experience however.

 

[kmoose]

He will ultimately be making decisions and we now know for a fact that he isn't being informed.

No, we don't. You're using hyperbole to suggest that he isn't. If you look at what he said, he said that he doesn't need to be told the same thing, the same way, for 8 years. He's CLEARLY referencing redundancy. Maybe his recall is better than most, and he really does only need to be told once. That's not uninformed. As the survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury (Basilar artery aneurysm that produced a massive subarachnoid hemorrhage), I am a big believer in repetition as a form of learning and also an aid to recall. But before my aneurysm, I was the kind of guy who could hear you give your wife your credit card number over the phone(not by actively listening, but because the phone was only a couple feet away from my workspace), and could recite your credit card number back to you, weeks later. I know, because that's a true story.

 

[connor_in]

Congressman begs Electoral College voters to block Trump | New York Post

Continuing to see things like this where people are calling for the electors of the electoral college are being called on to not vote for DJT as their states did. While it is not illegal for some of them to do this (it is for others as their state law is supposed to bind them), is this truly the precedent that the Ds want to set moving forward? This and these massive temper tantrums aka protests are things they want visited on their next president? Think about it, Harry Reid chose the nuclear option and as Trump gets ready to step into office many Ds are really starting to regret that.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

No, we don't. You're using hyperbole to suggest that he isn't. If you look at what he said, he said that he doesn't need to be told the same thing, the same way, for 8 years. He's CLEARLY referencing redundancy. Maybe his recall is better than most, and he really does only need to be told once. That's not uninformed. As the survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury (Basilar artery aneurysm that produced a massive subarachnoid hemorrhage), I am a big believer in repetition as a form of learning and also an aid to recall. But before my aneurysm, I was the kind of guy who could hear you give your wife your credit card number over the phone(not by actively listening, but because the phone was only a couple feet away from my workspace), and could recite your credit card number back to you, weeks later. I know, because that's a true story.

Lol jesus

 

[kmoose]

Lol jesus

More thoughtful input from you. Imagine that.

 

[Buster Bluth]

No, we don't. You're using hyperbole to suggest that he isn't. If you look at what he said, he said that he doesn't need to be told the same thing, the same way, for 8 years. He's CLEARLY referencing redundancy. Maybe his recall is better than most, and he really does only need to be told once. That's not uninformed. As the survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury (Basilar artery aneurysm that produced a massive subarachnoid hemorrhage), I am a big believer in repetition as a form of learning and also an aid to recall. But before my aneurysm, I was the kind of guy who could hear you give your wife your credit card number over the phone(not by actively listening, but because the phone was only a couple feet away from my workspace), and could recite your credit card number back to you, weeks later. I know, because that's a true story.

I'll elaborate on lol jesus..

Trump isn't attending his meetings and given what we know about his past, it falls right in line with his nature. This is Donald "I know more about ISIS than the generals do" Trump who said on MSNBC, when asked who he consults on foreign policy matters:

“I’m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and I’ve said a lot of things."

"I know what I’m doing and I listen to a lot of people, I talk to a lot of people and at the appropriate time I’ll tell you who the people are," Trump said. “But my primary consultant is myself and I have a good instinct for this stuff."

And yet we also know that foreign policy advisors who left his campaign said he had trouble paying attention to their study sessions and would zone out to turn on cable news so often that they had trouble getting points across. And we know that when he started his campaign he didn't know who the Kurds were, to give you a baseline level of knowledge in Trump's brain.

Add all that up with the offered deal to Kasich and what do you get? An empty suit who cares more about Twitter than governing.

 

[Legacy]

Lockheed Martin shares drop after Trump says F-35 program too expensive

President-elect Donald Trump took a swipe at Lockheed Martin's F-35 program Monday morning, saying the cost was "out of control."

Shares of the aerospace company dropped more than 4 percent in early trade. The company's market value dropped $4 billion after the tweet. The impact of Trump's tweet, per character, was more than $28 million.

Trump tweeted that "billions of dollars can and will be saved on military (and other) purchases" once he takes office in January.

Iran seals $17 billion Boeing deal, close to Airbus order

Iran signed a $16.6 billion deal for 80 Boeing passenger jets on Sunday and was said to be close to another for dozens of Airbus planes to complete what would be the biggest package of firm contracts with Western companies since Iran's 1979 Islamic revolution.

Boeing's deal with Iran may run into the Republican Congress's intent to kill the Iran nuclear sanctions deal. Boeing also sells one fifth of its sales to China, which Trump intends to take a hard line against. Boeing is arranging financing to complete the deal with Iran. Financing will not go through U.S. banks.

 

[IrishinSyria]

No, we don't. You're using hyperbole to suggest that he isn't. If you look at what he said, he said that he doesn't need to be told the same thing, the same way, for 8 years. He's CLEARLY referencing redundancy. Maybe his recall is better than most, and he really does only need to be told once. That's not uninformed. As the survivor of a Traumatic Brain Injury (Basilar artery aneurysm that produced a massive subarachnoid hemorrhage), I am a big believer in repetition as a form of learning and also an aid to recall. But before my aneurysm, I was the kind of guy who could hear you give your wife your credit card number over the phone(not by actively listening, but because the phone was only a couple feet away from my workspace), and could recite your credit card number back to you, weeks later. I know, because that's a true story.

I mean the issue is that

1)the PDB doesn't cover the same things every day

and

2) his suggested solution (call me if anything changes) is absurd.

The devil is in the details- for better or worse, Trump's not going to be able to outsource the entire job of the Presidency to Pence and the generals, and eventually the buck stops with him. In many ways, the PDB is the entire purpose of the intelligence apparatus. Even if it's a little boring now and then, Trump can suck it up a little bit and pretend to care about getting his hour long briefing every day.

This isnt a partisan line of attack. This is a basic responsibility of the presidency. Be informed.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I understand why Bolton freaks out libs, but he's not freaking out most GOPers unless your Rand Paul. He's not liked by everyone, but not freaking them out either. George Menbiot doesn't care for him much either lol.. Meh. He's conservative, pushy, loud, and has tossed stones at Obama and the Clintons. I don't think Iran should be bombed right now, but a harder line is needed (simply my opinion). Same with N Korea. Powell didn't care for him, and neither do I really, but I'm not going to chicken little his nomination. He's an opionated blowhard like a lot of folks in government and on IE. He does have a lot of experience however.

Honestly curious what you honk a harder line on Iran would look like.

E. or North Korea.

 

[Guest]

Met Office Data Confirms Record Drop Of Global Temperatures

Met Office Data Confirms Record Drop Of Global Temperatures

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/12/12/met-office-data-confirms-record-drop-of-global-temperatures/

Temperatures have fallen faster recently, given NASA satellite measurements, than have been experienced "at any time than in the recent past".

The change in temperatures seem to coincide more with El Nino weather patterns than emissions of so-called greenhouse gases, though this has not been proven statistically in a more expansive data set. However, the measurements tend to contradict the current theories around global warning and climate change.

Graphs included in the article. Researchers emphasize that temperature changes are best viewed longer term, however the rate of change shown in these measurements seem to be statistically important.

 

[Guest]

I think it's very interesting that people can actually deny man made climate change. How about we look at this problem from a VERY basic level.

If you must, go ahead. I prefer to look at the preponderance of the data and examine the relationships.

Let me ask you this. Can we all agree that "man" has pumped more CO2 and other greenhouse gas into the atmosphere more then would normally be produced with out man? I would hope the answer is yes.

Yes, but what can you prove by this?

Can we also agree that "man" has causes massive deforestation? More then would normally would have happened without man? I hope the answer is yes.

Two problems with this argument. One, linking deforestation to CO2 production which are separate events, WITHOUT providing causal evidence linking the two (E.g. correlation, which you have not shown, is still not causation). Second, man has also reforested much of the areas he has cut down in the United States. In fact, we have more robust forest lands than at any time in our history.

Can we also agree that the earth has cycles of warming and cooling that can NOT be influenced by "man"? I hope the answer is yes.

'We' believe so based upon data that is available.

With the fact that we are losing our our forests an an incredible level due to deforestation the earth is not able to absorb the CO2 that is produce tthrough photosynthesis thus making CO2 levels rise to an all time record high.

Show data and link the two (CO2 production and deforestation affect on CO2 levels), otherwise this is a straw man argument.

Now just in case you don't know what and increase in greenhouses gas into the atmosphere can do here is a very basic video to watch.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=m...p-hrtab-900&fr2=p:fp,m:sa&.tsrc=yfp-hrtab-900

At the moment I don't have time to watch the specific video; however, I have done quite a bit of research into CO2 (which is one of four major components of our atmosphere and always has been) and there has not been a single *conclusive* study that shows CO2 production, at levels man produces (which is a very small percentage of the whole), will affect climate. Most of the purported studies cannot be conclusive and are often quite debated.

Again this is very basic. Most of the warming generated by global warming is stored in the oceans and that is why you are seeing ocean temp rise faster then air temp. The north pole is melting at an alarming rate to a point that it is now navigable by ship. Most people who have a basic understanding of this with say " but the ice in the south pole is increasing" that is true but that increase is still only about 30% of what we are losing in the North which is why sea levels have begun to rise.

Some of these points are simply not true. a) I have posted two links showing that climatologists funded by government have willingly manipulated their data, lied about it and tried to cover it up, and tried to take over periodical research to drown out opposing opinion. b) I just posted a link above which shows that the earth is cooling at the fastest in recent memory, albeit this is a relatively small sample size since the 1970s.

The rest of your conclusions are based upon assumptions, some proven manipulations and cover-ups, and highly debated science that has not been proven to scientist's satisfactions.

I won't debate you that we have increased CO2 in the atmosphere, though the amount is very little compared to the existing levels which are completely natural and part of the life-cycle of nature.

I also won't debate that we were in a modest (by earth's standards) warming trend until the last decade or so, at which point the data seems to have reversed and we are in a bit of a small cooling trend.

I will debate that you can prove CO2 causes earth warming, that man can contribute enough to cause substantial problems, and that the ice melting is as bad as reported (again evidence exists this has been severely overstated, particularly at the poles), and that we are in anything other than a normal earth warming/cooling cycle.

 

[MJ12666]

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/12/12/met-office-data-confirms-record-drop-of-global-temperatures/

Temperatures have fallen faster recently, given NASA satellite measurements, than have been experienced "at any time than in the recent past".

The change in temperatures seem to coincide more with El Nino weather patterns than emissions of so-called greenhouse gases, though this has not been proven statistically in a more expansive data set. However, the measurements tend to contradict the current theories around global warning and climate change.

Graphs included in the article. Researchers emphasize that temperature changes are best viewed longer term, however the rate of change shown in these measurements seem to be statistically important.

I believe this was the hacked e-mail scandal you were referencing in a post yesterday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth/21climate.html

 

[IrishinSyria]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Someone started dumping Lockheed Martin stock just before Trump's tweet. Can someone else please verify my findings. <a href="https://t.co/5J7p7SwwcD">pic.twitter.com/5J7p7SwwcD</a></p>— Christopher Bouzy (@cbouzy) <a href="https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/808354101272645633">December 12, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is interesting.

 

[IrishLax]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Someone started dumping Lockheed Martin stock just before Trump's tweet. Can someone else please verify my findings. <a href="https://t.co/5J7p7SwwcD">pic.twitter.com/5J7p7SwwcD</a></p>— Christopher Bouzy (@cbouzy) <a href="https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/808354101272645633">December 12, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is interesting.

Not really.

 

[IrishinSyria]

interesting =/= undeniable proof of insider trading.

 

[IrishLax]

interesting =/= undeniable proof of insider trading.

That's why it's not interesting to me. First of all, I can't tell volume from that chart... in fact, with absolutely zero context it looks like a typical early morning price volatility sans volume. Second of all, I'm pretty sure he was complaining about the F-35 on TV before he ever tweeted that.

So I not only don't see proof of an insider trading, I see some Twitter guy with less followers than a third rate Notre Dame blog using smoke and mirrors to make it seem like something is there that probably isn't there. He says there's a "dump" of stock... well then why not show me the volume shares traded in that window of time? Because he chooses not to have that information or doesn't understand how stocks work or is trying to traffic in fake news or...?

Either way, not very interesting to me. I'm guessing you saw it on Shaun King's twitter?

 

[Booslum31]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Someone started dumping Lockheed Martin stock just before Trump's tweet. Can someone else please verify my findings. <a href="https://t.co/5J7p7SwwcD">pic.twitter.com/5J7p7SwwcD</a></p>— Christopher Bouzy (@cbouzy) <a href="https://twitter.com/cbouzy/status/808354101272645633">December 12, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is interesting.

Wouldn't it be great if it was?

 

[Buster Bluth]

Look at the bright side. When the crap hits the fan it's going to be a planning, design, engineering and reconstruction bonanza (at least that's what I keep telling myself lol).

Just stumbled upon this in r/economics.

Federal report forecasts hundreds of billions of dollars in climate change costs | Investigate Midwest

The report — jointly published by the Office of Management and Budget and the Council of Economic Advisers — used different global change models to forecast the fiscal consequences of climate change. While the report acknowledged there are still too many unknowns to fully understand climate change’s impact, it predicted that crop insurance, healthcare, wildfire suppression and disaster relief programs will likely see sharp spending increases.

Federal spending in those four areas could increase by as much as $112 billion per year toward the later part of this century, the report found.

Climate Change creates jobs. Climate Change is good!

 

[IrishinSyria]

Yeah, I'll take the L on this one. I learned something about how we make line charts so I still think interesting is the right word but the point about volume is a good one.

Good example of how confirmation bias and (semi) complicated facts can make someone vulnerable to fake news.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

More thoughtful input from you. Imagine that.

You somehow turned "I don't need to listen to daily Intel briefs because I'm smart "(?????????????????????) into a story about how you remember things.

You think that these briefs are about...repetition? This is a guy who has never held public office of any kind, ever, has never been part of the military in any capacity whatsoever.

He needs to gain actual knowledge, for the first time, ASAP about the numerous foreign policy decisions he will have to make.