2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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RDU Irish

Catholics vs. Cousins
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"To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now."

LOLOLOLOLOL

She didn't do anything wrong but if anyone else does it we reserve the right to roast their arse! How can that be interpreted as ANYTHING other than "she broke the law but we aren't going to enforce it?" Bogus, but not surprising.
 

GATTACA!

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Welp that's it folks. That was our chance to avoid Hillary or Trump in the white house.
 

RDU Irish

Catholics vs. Cousins
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And Republicans will look like sour grapes if they try to convene some special Congressional investigation to force the issue.

I really don't care what Trump does from here out, I absolutely will vote against any Clinton for any office, ever. Lunacy over Corruption!
 

connor_in

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....just saw this posted from January of this year:


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The next president can honor the simple notion that nobody is above the law, but it will happen only if voters demand it.</p>— Elizabeth Warren (@SenWarren) <a href="https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/693097354140975104">January 29, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Awkward! With Hillary flouting justice, does her pal Elizabeth Warren still stand by this? – twitchy.com
 

IrishJayhawk

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"To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now."

LOLOLOLOLOL

She didn't do anything wrong but if anyone else does it we reserve the right to roast their arse! How can that be interpreted as ANYTHING other than "she broke the law but we aren't going to enforce it?" Bogus, but not surprising.

They weren't deciding whether there should be security or administrative sanctions. They were deciding if she should be criminally prosecuted. You can disagree with their decision, but that's not what this excerpt is discussing. This is the pertinent part of the statement:

In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/p...lary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system
 

connor_in

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just read these 2 paragraphs <a href="https://t.co/JyqLfcnBqO">https://t.co/JyqLfcnBqO</a> <a href="https://t.co/b40PWWnal0">pic.twitter.com/b40PWWnal0</a></p>— Chris Cillizza (@TheFix) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheFix/status/750365825262125056">July 5, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Wow and this is from Chris Cillizza and the WaPo!
 

connor_in

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Well, this sounds like this could continue to draw her email situation out possibly...


Court: Private-account email can be subject to FOIA - POLITICO

On the same day that the FBI announced that the criminal investigation of Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server is likely to conclude without any charges, a federal appeals court issued a ruling that could complicate and prolong a slew of ongoing civil lawsuits over access to the messages Clinton and her top aides traded on personal accounts.

In a decision Tuesday in a case not involving Clinton directly, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit held that messages contained in a personal email account can sometimes be considered government records subject to Freedom of Information Act requests.
 

NDgradstudent

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It's good that this controversy is over. Now the press can get back to discussing the important issues, such as how many points are on a star in an image that Trump tweets.
 

GoIrish41

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Slick Willy trashed Lynch's credibility to further Hillary's political ambition. That's what you get with the Clinton machine. Hardball, take no prisoners, cut-throat political maneuvers to shape the political landscape.

Everybody knows it. The Dems, in many cases, call it "getting things done." Shaping the narrative and using political power and cunning to execute a political objective. Let's be honest, the republicans would do the same if they had a player as savvy as the Clintons to pull it off.

I think it stinks to high heaven, but again, the GOP has left us with no alternative than hardball political gamesmanship in the White House. Hillary is going to rub the GOP's nose in this FBI finding. The GOP will add it to the laundry list of failed accusations and they will push and push until they look like sore losers with another crackpot conspiracy theory to try to stick it to the Clintons. They have won these battles for decades against better republicans than exist in the party today.

The Clintons know how to get shit done, and if you agree with the things they say they want to get done, it gives one a window through which one can hold his nose and vote for her. Problem is they are more than willing to give too much up to get what they want in the moment.

If you don't like her vision, this has got to be infuriating. My advice, don't contribute too much to the politically charged blowback lest you contribute to making the GOP appear more spiteful and petty. The Clintons have won .... again. I hate that this is what our politics has become, when the obvious best candidate is Cerci Lannister, but the other candidate promises something much, much worse.
 
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wizards8507

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They have won these battles for decades against better republicans than exist in the party today.

giphy.gif
 

IrishLax

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Slick Willy trashed Lynch's credibility to further Hillary's political ambition. That's what you get with the Clinton machine. Hardball, take no prisoners, cut-throat political maneuvers to shape the political landscape.

Everybody knows it. The Dems, in many cases, call it "getting things done." Shaping the narrative and using political power and cunning to execute a political objective. Let's be honest, the republicans would do the same if they had a player as savvy as the Clintons to pull it off.

I think it stinks to high heaven, but again, the GOP has left us with no alternative than hardball political gamesmanship in the White House. Hillary is going to rub the GOP's nose in this FBI finding. The GOP will add it to the laundry list of failed accusations and they will push and push until they look like sore losers with another crackpot conspiracy theory to try to stick it to the Clintons. They have won these battles for decades against better republicans than exist in the party today.

The Clintons know how to get shit done, and if you agree with the things they say they want to get done, it gives one a window through which one can hold his nose and vote for her. If you don't like her vision, this has got to be infuriating. My advice, don't contribute to much of the politically charged blowback lest you contribute to making the GOP appear more spiteful and petty. The Clintons have won .... again. I hate that this is what our politics has become, when the obvious best candidate is Cerci Lannister, but the other candidate promises something much, much worse.

Agree.

To the last bolded... I'd say Hillary is more of a Tywin Lannister (contemptible and dirty handed, but a shrewd and effective operator)... Trump is like an amalgamation of the worst qualities of Joffrey + High Sparrow + Robert Baratheon. The childish antics of Joff, galvanizing masses of sheep with no substance like the High Sparrow, and the loudness and whoring of Robert Baratheon.
 

NDgradstudent

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They have won these battles for decades against better republicans than exist in the party today.

What are you talking about? They "win" by moving rightward once elected. That's how we got welfare reform, bank deregulation, etc., over the objections of progressives. They are crooks who believe in nothing save power- have fun voting for them (again!).
 

GoIrish41

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Agree.

To the last bolded... I'd say Hillary is more of a Tywin Lannister (contemptible and dirty handed, but a shrewd and effective operator)... Trump is like an amalgamation of the worst qualities of Joffrey + High Sparrow + Robert Baratheon. The childish antics of Joff, galvanizing masses of sheep with no substance like the High Sparrow, and the loudness and whoring of Robert Baratheon.

Excellent!
 

pumpdog20

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They weren't deciding whether there should be security or administrative sanctions. They were deciding if she should be criminally prosecuted. You can disagree with their decision, but that's not what this excerpt is discussing. This is the pertinent part of the statement:



https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/p...lary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system


So then why don't they just go ahead with the security and administrative sanctions? That way she still wouldn't be allowed to be president, since you know, you kind of need a highly classified clearance.
 

NDgradstudent

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NR's Andy McCarthy, former federal prosecutor, gets to the point:

There is no way of getting around this: According to Director James Comey (disclosure: a former colleague and longtime friend of mine), Hillary Clinton checked every box required for a felony violation of Section 793(f) of the federal penal code (Title 18): With lawful access to highly classified information she acted with gross negligence in removing and causing it to be removed it from its proper place of custody, and she transmitted it and caused it to be transmitted to others not authorized to have it, in patent violation of her trust. Director Comey even conceded that former Secretary Clinton was “extremely careless” and strongly suggested that her recklessness very likely led to communications (her own and those she corresponded with) being intercepted by foreign intelligence services.

Yet, Director Comey recommended against prosecution of the law violations he clearly found on the ground that there was no intent to harm the United States.

In essence, in order to give Mrs. Clinton a pass, the FBI rewrote the statute, inserting an intent element that Congress did not require. The added intent element, moreover, makes no sense: The point of having a statute that criminalizes gross negligence is to underscore that government officials have a special obligation to safeguard national defense secrets; when they fail to carry out that obligation due to gross negligence, they are guilty of serious wrongdoing. The lack of intent to harm our country is irrelevant. People never intend the bad things that happen due to gross negligence.

I would point out, moreover, that there are other statutes that criminalize unlawfully removing and transmitting highly classified information with intent to harm the United States. Being not guilty (and, indeed, not even accused) of Offense B does not absolve a person of guilt on Offense A, which she has committed.

It is a common tactic of defense lawyers in criminal trials to set up a straw-man for the jury: a crime the defendant has not committed. The idea is that by knocking down a crime the prosecution does not allege and cannot prove, the defense may confuse the jury into believing the defendant is not guilty of the crime charged. Judges generally do not allow such sleight-of-hand because innocence on an uncharged crime is irrelevant to the consideration of the crimes that actually have been charged.

It seems to me that this is what the FBI has done today. It has told the public that because Mrs. Clinton did not have intent to harm the United States we should not prosecute her on a felony that does not require proof of intent to harm the United States. Meanwhile, although there may have been profound harm to national security caused by her grossly negligent mishandling of classified information, we’ve decided she shouldn’t be prosecuted for grossly negligent mishandling of classified information.

I think highly of Jim Comey personally and professionally, but this makes no sense to me.

Finally, I was especially unpersuaded by Director Comey’s claim that no reasonable prosecutor would bring a case based on the evidence uncovered by the FBI. To my mind, a reasonable prosecutor would ask: Why did Congress criminalize the mishandling of classified information through gross negligence? The answer, obviously, is to prevent harm to national security. So then the reasonable prosecutor asks: Was the statute clearly violated, and if yes, is it likely that Mrs. Clinton’s conduct caused harm to national security? If those two questions are answered in the affirmative, I believe many, if not most, reasonable prosecutors would feel obliged to bring the case.

It's almost as if the fact that she is the Democratic candidate for President affects how the Democratic administration treats her!
 

GoIrish41

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What are you talking about? They "win" by moving rightward once elected. That's how we got welfare reform, bank deregulation, etc., over the objections of progressives. They are crooks who believe in nothing save power- have fun voting for them (again!).

Moving right is the "giving up too much" bit. You are simultaneously questioning and agreeing with me. I also registered my great displeasure with how the shady way they operate. I never voted for a Clinton but this year I will because the GOP has somehow found a worse human being than Hillary Clinton.
 

IrishJayhawk

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So then why don't they just go ahead with the security and administrative sanctions? That way she still wouldn't be allowed to be president, since you know, you kind of need a highly classified clearance.

I don't know what those sanctions generally include. I assume they've looked into that.
 

wizards8507

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I never voted for a Clinton but this year I will because the GOP has somehow found a worse human being than Hillary Clinton.
"Republicans deserve to lose... Donald Trump is the one candidate who will have the highest number of Republicans who guaranteed will not vote for him. He's that candidate."

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NhNJoqs1eCE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In 2012, Obamacare is massively unpopular so the Republicans nominate the guy who basically invented Obamacare. In 2016, Hillary Clinton is personally unpopular so the Republicans nominate the one candidate who's personally more disliked. They're not just bad at nominating candidates, they're cosmically bad at nominating candidates. Twice in a row and four years apart, they've picked the one man in the universe who is the most uniquely unqualified to run against the Democrat.
 

Emcee77

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So then why don't they just go ahead with the security and administrative sanctions? That way she still wouldn't be allowed to be president, since you know, you kind of need a highly classified clearance.

Someone might well do, but those things aren't in the FBI's power to impose.

The FBI investigates potential criminal conduct, with an eye toward building a case for a criminal prosecution. In this case, it found that the facts don't support criminal charges, which means it has done all it can. I'm not sure exactly what Comey is referring to when he refers to "security and administrative sanctions," but I understood him to be referring to something that is outside the purview of the Justice Department.
 
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GoIrish41

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"Republicans deserve to lose... Donald Trump is the one candidate who will have the highest number of Republicans who guaranteed will not vote for him. He's that candidate."

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NhNJoqs1eCE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In 2012, Obamacare is massively unpopular so the Republicans nominate the guy who basically invented Obamacare. In 2016, Hillary Clinton is personally unpopular so the Republicans nominate the one candidate who's personally more disliked. They're not just bad at nominating candidates, they're cosmically bad at nominating candidates. Twice in a row and four years apart, they've picked the one man in the universe who is the most uniquely unqualified to run against the Democrat.

This is impossible to disagree with.
 

wizards8507

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Serious question. If the Republicans had nominated Rubio-Kasich, does anyone doubt they would have taken the White House 55-45 against HRC if Little Marco hadn't gotten in the gutter with Trump? His New American Century speech is up there with Reagan's City on a Hill.
 

Ndaccountant

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No malicious intent has not stopped the FBI recently...

https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/pres...removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials

ryan H. Nishimura, 50, of Folsom, pleaded guilty today to unauthorized removal and retention of classified materials, United States Attorney Benjamin B. Wagner announced.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Kendall J. Newman immediately sentenced Nishimura to two years of probation, a $7,500 fine, and forfeiture of personal media containing classified materials. Nishimura was further ordered to surrender any currently held security clearance and to never again seek such a clearance.

According to court documents, Nishimura was a Naval reservist deployed in Afghanistan in 2007 and 2008. In his role as a Regional Engineer for the U.S. military in Afghanistan, Nishimura had access to classified briefings and digital records that could only be retained and viewed on authorized government computers. Nishimura, however, caused the materials to be downloaded and stored on his personal, unclassified electronic devices and storage media. He carried such classified materials on his unauthorized media when he traveled off-base in Afghanistan and, ultimately, carried those materials back to the United States at the end of his deployment. In the United States, Nishimura continued to maintain the information on unclassified systems in unauthorized locations, and copied the materials onto at least one additional unauthorized and unclassified system.

Nishimura’s actions came to light in early 2012, when he admitted to Naval personnel that he had handled classified materials inappropriately. Nishimura later admitted that, following his statement to Naval personnel, he destroyed a large quantity of classified materials he had maintained in his home. Despite that, when the Federal Bureau of Investigation searched Nishimura’s home in May 2012, agents recovered numerous classified materials in digital and hard copy forms. The investigation did not reveal evidence that Nishimura intended to distribute classified information to unauthorized personnel.
 

connor_in

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FBI Director Torches Hillary Clinton Talking Points | The Daily Caller

Clinton talking point No. 1: Her emails were not classified

Clinton talking point No. 2: She returned all work-related emails

Clinton talking point No. 3: Classified emails were not “marked” classified

Clinton talking point No. 4: She took the security of her email system seriously

Clinton talking point No. 5: It was a “security review” rather than a criminal investigation
 

Emcee77

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This is the part that's sad for me. Even assuming it's correct that there isn't a strong criminal case against HRC for her email improprieties (unlike most of you, I don't really doubt it), other candidates in other years would have had to pay a political price for their carelessness. Hillary won't have to pay a political price. I just don't think there are many voters who would have voted her before today, but now think she is a worse candidate than Trump. Instead, I think the people who liked her before today still figure, however bad this might be, she is still probably better for the country than Trump.
 

kmoose

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Here is how the Republican and Libertarian campaigns should be exploiting the FBI report:

The FBI has said that they will not recommend criminal charges, and that's fine.(In fact, it's not fine, but it IS a reality that isn't going to change) What they should be doing is finding out the precedent(s) for whether or not anyone who has mishandled classified material this badly has ever been allowed to retain their security clearance. I would forget about criminal charges. The only way criminal charges are going to happen is if you can convince Hillary Clinton's friends, colleagues, and/or people who owe her friends and colleagues favors, that she intended to mishandle it. Those people are never going to admit to believing it, or agree that she meets the definition of "gross" negligence.

What they SHOULD do is focus on the fact that the office of POTUS requires the highest level security clearance, and the fact that her tenure at the State Department indicates that she is not fit to receive retain/receive that level of clearance, and that the FBI report just confirms that.
 

ozzman

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Here is how the Republican and Libertarian campaigns should be exploiting the FBI report:

The FBI has said that they will not recommend criminal charges, and that's fine.(In fact, it's not fine, but it IS a reality that isn't going to change) What they should be doing is finding out the precedent(s) for whether or not anyone who has mishandled classified material this badly has ever been allowed to retain their security clearance. I would forget about criminal charges. The only way criminal charges are going to happen is if you can convince Hillary Clinton's friends, colleagues, and/or people who owe her friends and colleagues favors, that she intended to mishandle it. Those people are never going to admit to believing it, or agree that she meets the definition of "gross" negligence.

What they SHOULD do is focus on the fact that the office of POTUS requires the highest level security clearance, and the fact that her tenure at the State Department indicates that she is not fit to receive retain/receive that level of clearance, and that the FBI report just confirms that.

I'm pretty sure they have clearance based on their position and not a typical security clearance like members of the IC.
 
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