Game of Thrones

beryirish

Dry Land Is Not A Myth!
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My thought of the previous episode...or maybe it was two, of Sansa writing the letter to Blackfish to come to her aid: My thought was that she wrote two letters, one to Blackfish sent by Brienne and another to Littlefinger to the extent of come and do this and I will forgive you or do whatever. That's what makes me say "ok" when the knights of the vale come charging around the corner in Winterfell. Littlefinger got the message and was en route at that time and finally showed up.

I'm sure that dialogue of how/what/why will be answered in the finale.
 

beryirish

Dry Land Is Not A Myth!
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And also, before this episode I thought Hardhome was the best of the series.

I liked this episode better because 1) of the complete 60 minutes (56 or so) of complete action and fighting. and 2) because it actually consolidated some of the storylines and got things moving - D is moving from Mereen and has her complete army ready to go and the Starks have the North again and Ramsey is dead.
 

Irishnuke

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Just putting this out there to no one in particular, nobody fucking cares that you have read the books. Don't act more enlightened than somebody who just watches the show. It makes you look like giant douches.
 

wizards8507

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Just putting this out there to no one in particular, nobody fucking cares that you have read the books. Don't act more enlightened than somebody who just watches the show. It makes you look like giant douches.
I can think of something that makes you look like a giant douche.

Negged.
 

ACamp1900

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As someone who has read the books, but hasn't watched all that much of the show, I can say I'm better than all of you... especially wiz.
 
K

koonja

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As someone who can't read but really likes colorful pictures and fight scenes, Fire Longo.
 

woolybug25

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Longo's S&C program isn't realistic. It's written poorly and isn't logical.

I agree... as someone who has read all of the ND boards... Longo must go!
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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Just putting this out there to no one in particular, nobody fucking cares that you have read the books. Don't act more enlightened than somebody who just watches the show. It makes you look like giant douches.

People who read the books are likely more enlightened than you, given your unprovoked animosity towards them.
 

GATTACA!

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Longo's S&C program isn't realistic. It's written poorly and isn't logical.

I agree... as someone who has read all of the ND boards... Longo must go!

Good luck. Longos plot armor is ridiculous.
 
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NOLAIrish

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A few questions after this episode:

1. Would pre-death Jon have charged the frontline?

2. Will Sansa really follow a redemptive story arc or will she meet a sudden death after dealings with Littlefinger?

This late in the season, I hate when storylines go black. Where is Arya? What is happening in King's Landing? Where is Bran? White walkers? I wish they'd have offered a small scene to carry these stories forward.

the Good:

The battle scene was incredibly well done. The intensity of the fight scene was one of, if not the best, I have ever seen. This show has raised the bar for quality fight scenes.

Ramsay is dead

The Bad:

Predictable but appetizing.

It appears all giants are gone, except perhaps in the White Walker army.

Ramsay couldn't die painfully enough.

Jon Snow's death appears to have made him a slave to impulse. Strange development for him, I thought something a little more nuanced would've occurred.

Synopsis:

Fun episode to watch. GRRM/show authors are in a difficult situation: they can't do the unthinkable because that is now expected (I actually thought the Knights of the Vale were going to be on Ramsay's side and finish the job, leaving Snow alive under dead bodies). He also can't do the expected, because it's trite.

The show is still enjoyable but it has lost some of the intrigue. Hope the last episode goes out with a bang and leaves us with enough questions to spend the next 9 months trying to figure out where it's headed.

This is all extremely well put. Definitely the strongest episode of the season and very good overall. Not much to add, but a few thoughts:

-Great battle scene. The battle for Castle Black was probably my favorite all-around, and the set-up in the Battle of Blackwater Bay was the most entertaining. I thought this one had the best choreography and shooting.

-It couldn't compete with the epic feel of the battle for Castle Black because of the setting, but I thought it was also held back by a bit of a muddled "arc." Usually, film/tv battles have their own story: there's a plan/preparation, something happens to disrupt the plan, the protagonist changes course mid-battle, the protagonist prevails. The first of those two elements were pretty weak here. There was never much of a plan other than "let Ramsey charge into our center" which Sansa credibly dismissed. Jon's charge toward Rickon and subsequent charge toward Ramsey were the second element, but the fact that the second charge was a) a choice and b) completely irrational sapped it of some of its strength. Still a great scene, but that kept it from hitting the high of Castle Black or Blackwater for me. The beginning of that fight made so little sense to me that I was actually wondering if everything from Sansa and Jon in the tent through the charge on Ramsey was a dream/flash forward until Jon's horse was shot out from under him.

-So, when Sansa told Jon his plan was dumb and he asked her for a better one, how is the response not "Oh, maybe wait an extra half day. There's this other big army coming to join us"? Maybe her initial lie to Jon while they were still at Castle Black was supposed to set the table for her not mentioning the Knights of the Vale, but that part felt like a total cheat to me. She knew they were coming -- she rode in with them.

-Is this the best Dany episode in 2 seasons? Maybe not, but I can't remember any.

-Several people, myself included, have mentioned that the predictability of the show has taken a bit of the shine off. I want to be clear that I think it's a fantastic show and there's nothing I look forward to more. There's a further claim going around that this predictability is a weakness resulting from the show passing GRRM and "losing" his stronger source material, and I think that's completely wrong. The predictability is down to the fact that once you get this far down the narrative road, there's not much room left for characters who can just die off and there's no time to stand up a replacement unless they've already been developed -- there's no one to step in for Jon as he's basically done for Robb; there's no new Tommin as he was for Joffrey, etc. To an extent, a show's becoming predictable isn't poor writing, it's simple gravity.

-I'm not sure how it happened, but Tormund might have become my favorite character on the show. When this is all over, I'm down for some Misadventures of Tormund and Brienne.
 

Corry

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Loved the episode. So freaking good. When Jon fell, and couldn't breath I was freaking out. Not because I thought he would die or anything like that, but because what I was watching was unlike anything I'd ever watched. I get some of these characters have plot armor. I get that some of you feel the show isn't doing justice to the source material, but if after watching that you're not entertained I really don't think you will be with this series. That was just awesome.
 

woolybug25

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Yep. It's OK though since I'm only an average viewer.

I sent you some love. My rep power is stronger than Wiz's. So you should be net positive.

Don't let a weirdo swearing a pleated khakis, a Star Wars shirt and Disney ears get ya down. ;)
 

gkIrish

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Loved the episode. So freaking good. When Jon fell, and couldn't breath I was freaking out. Not because I thought he would die or anything like that, but because what I was watching was unlike anything I'd ever watched. I get some of these characters have plot armor. I get that some of you feel the show isn't doing justice to the source material, but if after watching that you're not entertained I really don't think you will be with this series. That was just awesome.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed not to be entertained. I think there is just a general level of disappointment because some of us feel that one of the greatest stories ever told could be handled a lot better.

I'll say it again, these guys fucked up an entire subplot so much that it had to be written off the show. How do you defend that?
 

IrishLion

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-I'm not sure how it happened, but Tormund might have become my favorite character on the show. When this is all over, I'm down for some Misadventures of Tormund and Brienne.

I was praying for Brienne to show up and save Tormund's life during that battle somehow.

I needed to see the love in Tormund's eyes and look of disgust in Brienne's. I needed that comedic relief.
 

woolybug25

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I don't think anyone has ever claimed not to be entertained. I think there is just a general level of disappointment because some of us feel that one of the greatest stories ever told could be handled a lot better.

I'll say it again, these guys fucked up an entire subplot so much that it had to be written off the show. How do you defend that?

We don't know why they removed certain subplot, maybe some inherently had to be removed or reasonably assumed had to be removed. If so, they chose certain pieces that didn't have direct relation to the end game discussed with GRRM.

I think a lot of people are just sick of the armchair QB'ing going on every single week. Both threads are just a constant bitchfest from the bookreaders, a bitchfest that seems inevitable regardless of how the show presents the story. Hell... Wiz has bitched over and over about them "spoiling the plot" of a story the fat bastard of a writer hasn't even finished yet.

It's a tv show. It would just be nice to have one week where the threads weren't all about "this week's nitpicks". Like anybody on IE could write better scripts or something. It's annoying.
 

gkIrish

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We don't know why they removed certain subplot, maybe some inherently had to be removed or reasonably assumed had to be removed. If so, they chose certain pieces that didn't have direct relation to the end game discussed with GRRM.

I think a lot of people are just sick of the armchair QB'ing going on every single week. Both threads are just a constant bitchfest from the bookreaders, a bitchfest that seems inevitable regardless of how the show presents the story. Hell... Wiz has bitched over and over about them "spoiling the plot" of a story the fat bastard of a writer hasn't even finished yet.

It's a tv show. It would just be nice to have one week where the threads weren't all about "this week's nitpicks". Like anybody on IE could write better scripts or something. It's annoying.

I just rewatched the episode. Let me give you a specific example of some terrible writing.

If you recall, the day prior to the battle Sansa tells Ramsay that he is going to die tomorrow. Then she gallops away from the group. THEN Ramsay goes on to tell Jon that his men look good and that the dogs have not been fed for 7 days.

Fast forward to the end of the episode and Sansa tells Ramsay that his dogs will eat them because he has not fed them in 7 days. Wait um, what? She didn't hear him say that. If you want to tell me Jon Snow told her that Ramsay said his dogs had not been fed for 7 days off screen despite the two of them having a 5 minute long one-on-one conversation on screen, okay.

But to me, it's just sloppy writing. I watch TV shows to be (a) entertained and (b) intellectually stimulated. Recently, there has been plenty of (a), but very little (b). Not saying people shouldn't be annoyed when we point these things out but I don't think it's necessary to complain about it all the time either. It's easier for you guys to just ignore it than for us to not say what we are itching to say. Agree?
 

woolybug25

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I just rewatched the episode. Let me give you a specific example of some terrible writing.

If you recall, the day prior to the battle Sansa tells Ramsay that he is going to die tomorrow. Then she gallops away from the group. THEN Ramsay goes on to tell Jon that his men look good and that the dogs have not been fed for 7 days.

Fast forward to the end of the episode and Sansa tells Ramsay that his dogs will eat them because he has not fed them in 7 days. Wait um, what? She didn't hear him say that. If you want to tell me Jon Snow told her that Ramsay said his dogs had not been fed for 7 days off screen despite the two of them having a 5 minute long one-on-one conversation on screen, okay.

But to me, it's just sloppy writing. I watch TV shows to be (a) entertained and (b) intellectually stimulated. Recently, there has been plenty of (a), but very little (b). Not saying people shouldn't be annoyed when we point these things out but I don't think it's necessary to complain about it all the time either. It's easier for you guys to just ignore it than for us to not say what we are itching to say. Agree?

I guess what I'm saying is that I could go grab a notebook and pull up any movie or tv show and pull some "nitpicks" about the writing, directing or acting. Literally anything. Even my favorites like Shawshank Redemption or Legends of The Fall. I could find things I think should be different or are poor representations of the book. But I choose to choose to enjoy the now. Enjoy the experience. To not get caught up with any and all negativity I can scrounge up.

That's the weekly nitpicking that many have expressed to dislike. The apparent need of some (I don't want you to think that this is targeted to you personally) on here to ruin everyone else's experience. To constantly bring an aura of negativity to the discussion for nothing more than to feed some need to find anything and everything that can be pulled out of the experience that is negative.

It's just not worth it.
 

gkIrish

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I guess what I'm saying is that I could go grab a notebook and pull up any movie or tv show and pull some "nitpicks" about the writing, directing or acting. Literally anything. Even my favorites like Shawshank Redemption or Legends of The Fall. I could find things I think should be different or are poor representations of the book. But I choose to choose to enjoy the now. Enjoy the experience. To not get caught up with any and all negativity I can scrounge up.

That's the weekly nitpicking that many have expressed to dislike. The apparent need of some (I don't want you to think that this is targeted to you personally) on here to ruin everyone else's experience. To constantly bring an aura of negativity to the discussion for nothing more than to feed some need to find anything and everything that can be pulled out of the experience that is negative.

It's just not worth it.

I get it. But when I see people say "Best Episode Ever" or something like that others feel the need to disagree with it. Just like if someone said Cam Newton is the best QB of all time people would feel the need to disagree. It's not really nitpicking, it's explaining. I agree there is no need to call out every single little detail but I think big picture stuff is fair.
 

gkIrish

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Just in case I didn't make it clear earlier I thought the battle scene was absolutely stunning. The few seconds of Jon standing there waiting for the Bolton army to get to him while he breathed heavily was so intense. The whole thing was awesome.
 

phork

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I am enjoying the show for what it is now. I do feel like lazy writing is sinking the ship quickly, but for now I am enjoying the visuals. Swallowing what the show runners are feeding the audience to appease them.
I feel everything is telegraphed a mile out now and there are no more shocks or surprises coming. And I am ok with that. The eye candy in the show makes it ok.
 

woolybug25

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Interesting fact: Miguel Sapochnik, who directed "Hardhome", also directed the last two episodes of this season . ("Battle of The Bastards" & "The Winds of Winter")

Probably why the Battle of The Bastards battle scene was so lit. Not only did he direct it, the scene cost $10M and took over 86 hours of shooting. Just thought i'de share some evidence of them not being "lazy".
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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Interesting fact: Miguel Sapochnik, who directed "Hardhome", also directed the last two episodes of this season . ("Battle of The Bastards" & "The Winds of Winter")

Probably why the Battle of The Bastards battle scene was so lit. Not only did he direct it, the scene cost $10M and took over 86 hours of shooting. Just thought i'de share some evidence of them not being "lazy".

Is 86 hrs of shooting a massive amount? Is $10m a lot of money spent on a war scene?

This is the hottest show in the world right now. They should be spending boatloads of money and time to produce it. They'll never get this opportunity again.
 

zelezo vlk

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Is 86 hrs of shooting a massive amount? Is $10m a lot of money spent on a war scene?

This is the hottest show in the world right now. They should be spending boatloads of money and time to produce it. They'll never get this opportunity again.
It's still a tv show. It's quite a lot for a single episode.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 

woolybug25

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Is 86 hrs of shooting a massive amount? Is $10m a lot of money spent on a war scene?

This is the hottest show in the world right now. They should be spending boatloads of money and time to produce it. They'll never get this opportunity again.

For 1 scene of one episode?

The entire budget for this year's Best Motion Picture (Spotlight) was $20M. For the entire movie.... Breaking Bad averaged $3M per episode.

Again... $10M for one scene. That's more than three times what an entire episode of the last big time series spent for entire shows.

I guess some of you really are impossible to please.
 
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