Game of Thrones

[woolybug25]

ALSO:

I'd offer a reward to anyone who can figure out how to do a frame-by-frame breakdown of all of Bran's visions.

There was some stuff they clearly wanted us to see (like confirmation that he's going to drive the Mad King to the brink), but there were some single-frame shots that I'm sure provided some tasty morsels of foreshadowing that they put it for the internet detectives. I just don't have the technology to do it myself.

Just gotta wait on Buzzfeed or Reddit I guess lol

That would be excellent. When watching it, I realized there was a lot going on there. I have it on dvr, so I was going to revisit.

I had a light bulb moment just now. Is the play the first Arya heard of Joffrey's death? I remember there being a look of disdain, but didn't connect it at the time. He was obviously on her list.

 

[NDinMich]

I can't do it, because I'm still rooting too hard for her to be a Master Assassin AND have a Direwolf at her disposal. After I posted my concern, I thought more about it, and it seems likely that she had some off-screen training that will allow her to do work.

Now we just have to wait and see how her refusing to forget her identity will come back to bite her (after she's kicked sufficient ass, that is).

Spoiler alert.


Waife v Arya...Waife is owning Arya until Nymeria comes in to save her from certain death. Lady Stoneheart comes in and kills Nymeria because you know, direwolves have a big part in the storyline...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

That would be excellent. When watching it, I realized there was a lot going on there. I have it on dvr, so I was going to revisit. .

Screen caps of Bran's visions.

 

[woolybug25]

Screen caps of Bran's visions.

This is Jaime Lannister killing the Mad King, no?

Interesting that it seems that he sat on the throne afterwards.

 

[NDVirginia19]

I think Ned talks about that, how he had to take Jaime off of the throne when he came upon him after he murdered the king

 

[gkIrish]

So did Bran find out about all the deaths in his family in just that one scene? IIRC he didn't know about anyone dying, including Ned...?

Also, the Arya stuff this week was awesome. I think fighting the waif is going to be her final test and if she kills her Jaqen is going to let her use the faces and all that stuff.

 

[IrishLion]

Also, the Arya stuff this week was awesome. I think fighting the waif is going to be her final test and if she kills her Jaqen is going to let her use the faces and all that stuff.

If that's the case, that means Jaqen is cool with her holding on to her previous life and motivations, which is a big no-no for the Faceless Men... So either he did the same when he became a Faceless Man, or he's letting it go because he sees how much potential she has even with breaking the rules, or he has some other motivation that will be a huge revelation.

 

[IrishLax]

This is Jaime Lannister killing the Mad King, no?

Interesting that it seems that he sat on the throne afterwards.

I believe this is talked about in the show (bath scene from an early season with him and Brienne after he loses his hand, I think) and in the books where he mentions how he killed the Mad King, why he killed the Mad King, and how Ned Stark found him sitting on the throne when he arrived in King's Landing.

 

[gkIrish]

If that's the case, that means Jaqen is cool with her holding on to her previous life and motivations, which is a big no-no for the Faceless Men... So either he did the same when he became a Faceless Man, or he's letting it go because he sees how much potential she has even with breaking the rules, or he has some other motivation that will be a huge revelation.

All we know about the Faceless Men is what we learn from Jaqen, right? So it's completely plausible that this is part of the test....That you are supposed to be beaten down and broken and concede that you are No One. But maybe to pass the final part of the test you must stand up for what you truly believe or something like that.

 

[johnnycando]

All we know about the Faceless Men is what we learn from Jaqen, right? So it's completely plausible that this is part of the test....That you are supposed to be beaten down and broken and concede that you are No One. But maybe to pass the final part of the test you must stand up for what you truly believe or something like that.

I think Arya kills the bitch.

She decides to leave.

She doesn't become an assassin for the Faceless Men, but she becomes a method actress assassin from the principles she learned...

And I believe Jaqen will always be an ally.

 

[Irish YJ]

I think Arya kills the bitch.

She decides to leave.

She doesn't become an assassin for the Faceless Men, but she becomes a method actress assassin from the principles she learned...

And I believe Jaqen will always be an ally.

x2

 

[greyhammer90]

All we know about the Faceless Men is what we learn from Jaqen, right? So it's completely plausible that this is part of the test....That you are supposed to be beaten down and broken and concede that you are No One. But maybe to pass the final part of the test you must stand up for what you truly believe or something like that.

That would make his private conversation where he says "see that she doesn't suffer" completely pointless. Why wouldn't he discuss the plan when Arya is not around?

 

[gkIrish]

That would make his private conversation where he says "see that she doesn't suffer" completely pointless

See my previous post about needing to kill the waif to pass the test. The waif is an acolyte. As far as the waif knows, Jaqen wants her to kill Arya. Jaqen doesn't know what will happen. If the waif succeeds in killing Arya, Jaqen doesn't want Arya to suffer. If the waif fails and Arya kills her, Arya passes the hypothetical test.

Alternatively it doesn't make any sense at all for Jaqen to put a hit out on Arya because that goes against the principles of the Faceless Men....

From a Game of Thrones wiki:

As the Faceless Men forsake their identities for the service of the Many-Faced God, they only assassinate targets they have been hired to kill and may not choose who is worthy of the 'gift' by themselves.

Bottom line, this whole thing being as simple as "Arya decided to quit so now she must die" does not make any sense.

Why wouldn't he discuss the plan when Arya is not around?

What plan?

 

[woolybug25]

That would make his private conversation where he says "see that she doesn't suffer" completely pointless. Why wouldn't he discuss the plan when Arya is not around?

What is he supposed to say to someone he just allowed to go kill her? In the case Arya fails, that's a completely normal thing to say. I'm not sure why you feel that changes anything.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The buzz online is that: (1) Cersei mentioning that her ordeal will be trial by combat is further confirmation of Clegane Bowl; and (2) Walder Frey pointing out the specific family members who killed Rob and Catelyn (as well as how much trouble the Brotherhood Without Banners is causing) is a strong indication that Lady Stoneheart will make an appearance at some point.

Along with Benjen Coldhands, this all points to fans having already guessed most of the remaining plot reveals (and GRRM shamelessly lying to preserve some sense of anticipation), or Benioff and Weis deciding to finish the series with some major fan service. Can't complain either way.

 

[IrishLion]

Along with Benjen Coldhands, this all points to fans having already guessed most of the remaining plot reveals (and GRRM shamelessly lying to preserve some sense of anticipation), or Benioff and Weis deciding to finish the series with some major fan service. Can't complain either way.

Whiskey, I'm gonna post on this in the other thread, because my thoughts contain some minor (at this point) spoilers about certain remaining plot reveals, and I don't want to accidentally ruin anything for anybody that's trying to remain in the dark on all-things future plot.

 

[IrishLion]

If Tommen bites the dust, who sits on the Iron Throne? Margaery?

 

[IrishLax]

If Tommen bites the dust, who sits on the Iron Throne? Margaery?

Such a tough question. There is no direct heir to the throne that I can think of, unless you legitimized Gendry.

So then you'd have to look at Daenerys, Cersei, or Margaery. All are women, which is a problem, unless you're in Dorne. So Dorne would clearly back Daenerys, the Reach would (probably) back Margaery, and the Lannisters (maybe) would back Cersei. Then you'd have the Vale, Riverlands, Stormlands, and North as wildcards.

And all of this is moot if somehow Jon is legitimately recognized as R+L=J.

 

[IrishLion]

Such a tough question. There is no direct heir to the throne that I can think of, unless you legitimized Gendry.

So then you'd have to look at Daenerys, Cersei, or Margaery. All are women, which is a problem, unless you're in Dorne. So Dorne would clearly back Daenerys, the Reach would (probably) back Margaery, and the Lannisters (maybe) would back Cersei. Then you'd have the Vale, Riverlands, Stormlands, and North as wildcards.

And all of this is moot if somehow Jon is legitimately recognized as R+L=J.

Are all of the Baratheons (aside from bastards) wiped out? Or is there a chance that some long-lost Baratheon cousin is out there that would legally be in line?

If there isn't a Baratheon, I think Jaime might actually be next in line... he's no longer Kingsguard, and he's the eldest male relative of Tommen.

 

[wizards8507]

If there isn't a Baratheon, I think Jaime might actually be next in line... he's no longer Kingsguard, and he's the eldest male relative of Tommen.

Yeah, probably. House Baratheon is extinct in the show.

 

[IrishLax]

Are all of the Baratheons (aside from bastards) wiped out? Or is there a chance that some long-lost Baratheon cousin is out there that would legally be in line?

If there isn't a Baratheon, I think Jaime might actually be next in line... he's no longer Kingsguard, and he's the eldest male relative of Tommen.

I think they're 100% wiped out.

And I don't think Jaime is next in line, right? Because it's not the Lannister line that matters.

 

[IrishLion]

I think they're 100% wiped out.

And I don't think Jaime is next in line, right? Because it's not the Lannister line that matters.

The Lannister line doesn't matter as long as there are Baratheons around... but there aren't any, meaning the king's closest relatives are now his mother's side of the family. That leaves Jaime, from Tommen's mother's side, as the next in line logically, but I guess there needs to be a ruling from GRRM about the laws of succession in his world haha.

 

[wizards8507]

I think they're 100% wiped out.

And I don't think Jaime is next in line, right? Because it's not the Lannister line that matters.

The Baratheons are extinct and the only known cousins on the male line are Targaryens, so that's not going to work either. The king's uncle is as good an option as any at that point.

 

[IrishLax]

The Baratheons are extinct and the only known cousins on the male line are Targaryens, so that's not going to work either. The king's uncle is as good an option as any at that point.

Then would the Faith of Seven try to put forth Lancel?

 

[zelezo vlk]

Is there no rule against the Kingsguard giving up claims?

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[IrishLion]

Then would the Faith of Seven try to put forth Lancel?

If Jaime is a legitimate option in the eyes of the law, so is Lancel... but then Jaime's claim is greater than Lancel's based on age and degrees-of-separation, so the faith would have to exploit a loophole of some sort.

But we don't know if the succession recognizes a king's mother's family legitimately in the absence of heirs from the king's direct line.

What a good line of thought to explore. I had a friend ask me who is next in line, and I brought it here. I'm glad he asked.

Is there no rule against the Kingsguard giving up claims?

Jaime is no longer Kingsguard.

 

[zelezo vlk]

If Jaime is a legitimate option, then his claim is greater than Lancel's based on age and degrees-of-separation.

But we don't know if the succession recognizes a king's mother's family in the absence of heirs from his namesake's side. What a good line of thought to explore. I had a friend ask me who is next in line, and I brought it here. I'm glad he asked.



Jaime is no longer Kingsguard.

I don't know why I thought he was still in but just banished from Kings Landing.

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[wizards8507]

Then would the Faith of Seven try to put forth Lancel?

No need. In ShowWesteros, Tommen is already a puppet of the Faith.

Is there no rule against the Kingsguard giving up claims?

Tommen kicked Jamie out of the kingsguard so it's not an issue anymore.

 

[IrishLax]

No need. In ShowWesteros, Tommen is already a puppet of the Faith.

This is all a hypothetical on when he dies.

 

[Son of Kenmare]

If Tommen bites the dust, who sits on the Iron Throne? Margaery?

The only surviving Baratheon is Gendry (bastard) who was last seen rowing a boat away from Storm's End. His claim can be verified by Davos (Stannis's Hand) and Melisandre. As far as we know, he is still alive. He would have the only legitimate claim to the throne. He is also the heir to Storm's End.