2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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BleedBlueGold

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Nope, he should stick to his beliefs. If he (and those like him) keep voting for what they don't like, then you keep getting what you don't like. An even better outcome is that Hillary doesn't get voted.

Jayhawk's point is that my beliefs are more in line with HRC than Trump/Cruz comparatively. "An even better outcome is that Hillary doesn't get voted" doesn't hold true because the alternative is far worse based on my beliefs. That's his point, and I agree with him. I still may not vote for her though. At the end of the day, I'm the one who has to live with that.
 

Ndaccountant

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Jayhawk's point is that my beliefs are more in line with HRC than Trump/Cruz comparatively. "An even better outcome is that Hillary doesn't get voted" doesn't hold true because the alternative is far worse based on my beliefs. That's his point, and I agree with him. I still may not vote for her though. At the end of the day, I'm the one who has to live with that.

Depends on what you think happens, both in the short term and long term, if our political system doesn't change. To me, it doesn't matter if it is R's or D's in the White House, things will get even more divisive within our country....which could ultimately lead to much worse things than 4 years of Cruz.
 

kmoose

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Abstaining doesn't accomplish much of anything beneficial for Bernie supporters. It is a good thing for Cruz/Trump.

It's not a good thing for Cruz/Trump....... it is neutral. It would be a good thing if people HAD to vote for their registered party, and there were more Democrats registered to vote than Republicans. But that's not how the system works. If you don't like either candidate, write in someone that you do like. That works against both evils. I don't advocate not voting, but neither am I buying into "not voting for X is the same as voting for Y"; because it just isn't true.
 

kmoose

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What is so awful about Cruz?

Cruz led the charge to shut down the government years ago. I will never forgive him for that. He played partisan politics right up until the government was shut down. Government operates on a social contract with the governed. We(the governed) cede certain powers to the government, in exchange for government providing certain services and products. If the government shuts down, and stops fulfilling its obligations; then people will suddenly have an excuse to not fulfill theirs.
 

GATTACA!

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What is so awful about Cruz?

Well first of all he's the Zodiac killer

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IrishJayhawk

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What is so awful about Cruz?

I was careful to word it the way I did. Catastrophic for many things that Bernie supporters believe are important, i.e., tax policy, social safety nets, social security, medicare, military spending, war, responses to terrorism, LGBT rights, church/state issues, and on and on...
 

NorthDakota

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I was careful to word it the way I did. Catastrophic for many things that Bernie supporters believe are important, i.e., tax policy, social safety nets, social security, medicare, military spending, war, responses to terrorism, LGBT rights, church/state issues, and on and on...

Sounds good. They are very different after all.
 

wizards8507

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Cruz led the charge to shut down the government years ago. I will never forgive him for that. He played partisan politics right up until the government was shut down. Government operates on a social contract with the governed. We(the governed) cede certain powers to the government, in exchange for government providing certain services and products. If the government shuts down, and stops fulfilling its obligations; then people will suddenly have an excuse to not fulfill theirs.
Ted Cruz ran for the Senate by promising the voters of Texas that he'd lead the fight to block Obamacare. Ted Cruz kept his word to his constituents, and for that "you will never forgive him."

Think about that. The so-called "most hated man in the Senate" is so despised because he's the one Republican who kept the promise he made to the people who elected him to stop legislation with widespread disapproval. Translation: people hate Ted Cruz because he did exactly what every elected official should do. He did his job.

The government "shutdown" was a media-fueled nonstory. In truth 17% of the government, all non-essential services, was shut down. I don't believe we live in a world where 17% of the federal government going dark for a few days is any major crisis compared to the disaster that Ted Cruz was trying to defund, the Affordable Care Act. The government "shuts down" every weekend and nothing blows up. The government "shuts down" on Thanksgiving and nothing blows up. Give me a break.
 
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Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
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The government "shuts down" every weekend and nothing blows up. The government "shuts down" on Thanksgiving and nothing blows up. Give me a break.

Our government continues to blow stuff up on weekends and holidays.
 

kmoose

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Ted Cruz ran for the Senate by promising the voters of Texas that he'd lead the fight to block Obamacare. Ted Cruz kept his word to his constituents, and for that "you will never forgive him."

Think about that. The so-called "most hated man in the Senate" is so despised because he's the one Republican who kept the promise he made to the people who elected him to stop legislation with widespread disapproval. Translation: people hate Ted Cruz because he did exactly what every elected official should do. He did his job.

The government "shutdown" was a media-fueled nonstory. In truth 17% of the government, all non-essential services, was shut down. I don't believe we live in a world where 17% of the federal government going dark for a few days is any major crisis compared to the disaster that Ted Cruz was trying to defund, the Affordable Care Act. The government "shuts down" every weekend and nothing blows up. The government "shuts down" on Thanksgiving and nothing blows up. Give me a break.

Go back to your Ivory Disney Tower and let the rest of us have some reasoned, somewhat-informed conversation will you?

Do you know how many TSA people received paychecks during the government shutdown?

None.

Do you know how many small businesses did not get paid on their government contracts, because the people who process those payments are "non-essential" personnel?

I can name one............. the one I work for.

They did receive back pay, once everything was resolved, but do you think that their landlords gave a fvck about that? Some might have, out of the kindness of their heart. But I suppose now you are going to tell us all a story about how you went without a paycheck for a month, once before, and managed to pay off all your debt while doing so....

Cruz is a fvcking idiot of the first magnitude. And if you think he "did his job", then you can take a seat right next to him.
 
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BGIF

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Per Politico

Per Politico

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump's campaign manager, who was charged in Florida last month with battery on a reporter, will not be prosecuted, Politico reported on Wednesday, citing sources with knowledge of the situation.
Corey Lewandowski was charged with intentionally grabbing and bruising the arm of Michelle Fields, then a reporter for the conservative news outlet Breitbart, when she tried to question Trump at a campaign event on March 8.

Palm Beach County State Attorney David Aronberg is scheduled to announce the decision not to press charges against Lewandowski on Thursday afternoon, Politico said.

Politico: Lewandowsky Won't Be Prosecuted for Alleged Battery on Reporter
 
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phgreek

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It's not a good thing for Cruz/Trump....... it is neutral. It would be a good thing if people HAD to vote for their registered party, and there were more Democrats registered to vote than Republicans. But that's not how the system works. If you don't like either candidate, write in someone that you do like. That works against both evils. I don't advocate not voting, but neither am I buying into "not voting for X is the same as voting for Y"; because it just isn't true.

Perfectly said...and the bolded is the right alternative.
 

connor_in

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1860_Republican_National_Convention


The convention met in mid-May, after the Democrats had been forced to adjourn the 1860 Democratic National Convention in Charleston, South Carolina without a nominee and had not yet re-convened in Baltimore, Maryland. With the Democrats in disarray and with a sweep of the Northern states possible, the Republicans were confident of victory. Senator William H. Seward of New York was generally expected to get the nomination.

Other candidates seeking the nomination at the convention included Lincoln, Governor of Ohio Salmon P. Chase, former U.S. Representative Edward Bates of Missouri, and U.S. Senator Simon Cameron of Pennsylvania.

As the convention developed, however, it was revealed that Seward, Chase, and Bates had each alienated factions of the Republican Party. Delegates were concerned that Seward was too closely identified with the radical wing of the party, and his moves toward the center had alienated the radicals. Chase, a former Democrat, was opposed by many of the former Whigs who had become Republicans, was thought to be too radical on slavery, had opposed tariffs wanted by Pennsylvania manufacturing interests, and critically, had opposition in his own delegation from Ohio. Bates outlined his positions on extension of slavery into the territories and equal constitutional rights for all citizens, positions that alienated his supporters in the border states and southern conservatives. German-Americans in the party opposed Bates because of his past association with the Know-Nothings.

It was essential to carry the West (what would today be considered the Middle West), and Lincoln was a prominent Westerner. He had a national reputation from his debates and speeches, in which he eloquently opposed slavery while avoiding any of the radical positions that could alienate moderate voters. He had the support of the Illinois and Indiana delegations before the convention, and was the strongest candidate other than Seward.

Nonetheless, Seward's prestige appeared likely to carry him to the nomination.

Lincoln was represented at the convention by his friends Leonard Swett, Ward Hill Lamon, and David Davis. During the night of May 17–18, they worked frantically to win anti-Seward delegates for Lincoln. They showed that Lincoln already had the most support after Seward, which persuaded some. They also made a deal with Simon Cameron of Pennsylvania, who recognized that he had no chance of winning the nomination himself. Cameron controlled the Pennsylvania delegation, and he offered to trade his support for the promise of a cabinet position for himself and control of Federal patronage in Pennsylvania. Lincoln did not want to make any such deal; from Springfield, he telegraphed to Davis "I authorize no bargains and will be bound by none".[8] Despite this restriction, Davis reached an understanding with Cameron, which eventually led to Cameron's appointment as Secretary of War.

The next day (May 18), when voting for the nomination began, Seward led on the first ballot with Lincoln a distant second. But on the second ballot, the Pennsylvania delegation switched to Lincoln, putting him in a near-tie with Seward. On the third ballot many additional delegates switched to Lincoln, and he won the party's nomination.[9]

Was not familiar/had forgotten this situation
 

phgreek

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