2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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FightingIrishLover7

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96% Bernie.

And I'm still not sure if he's the right candidate... And by that I mean he's the most humane person, but idk if Americans are ready for his ideas yet. Need someone in between Bernie and Hillary. Where's Joe Cool (Biden) when you need him?
 

Whiskeyjack

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I got Cruz... Which is weird because as a person there is no Republican I dislike more besides Trump.... Would of thought I was a Rubio guy...

Similar to what pkt said about Hillary re liberals on the last page, Cruz's policy positions are very appealing to most conservatives. He's just intensely unlikeable as a person.

Personally, I consider this Cruz incident unforgiveable, and will never consider voting for him.
 
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C

Cackalacky

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Republicans trying to decide whether or not to vote for Trump:

5-The-Fear.png
 

connor_in

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I got Cruz... Which is weird because as a person there is no Republican I dislike more besides Trump.... Would of thought I was a Rubio guy...

what was your percentage? who was next at what percentage?

Just curious as to if it was close and if you like the second place person better as a person
 

Bishop2b5

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Mine was Cruz & Rubio tied at 83% each, Trump was around 50%, and Hillary & Bernie were in the 30% range. I find Cruz unlikeable and wish Rubio was the nominee. I disagree with Trump on too many things to support him, Bernie is a radical leftist, and Hillary is too lacking in character, honesty, and integrity to run anything other than a snake farm... she reminds me of Richard Nixon in drag.
 

wizards8507

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Mine was Cruz & Rubio tied at 83% each, Trump was around 50%, and Hillary & Bernie were in the 30% range. I find Cruz unlikeable and wish Rubio was the nominee. I disagree with Trump on too many things to support him, Bernie is a radical leftist, and Hillary is too lacking in character, honesty, and integrity to run anything other than a snake farm... she reminds me of Richard Nixon in drag.
How can they possibly gauge Donald Trump on that scale? He's been on both sides of MAJOR issues.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WpKiP_gmDS8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

FightingIrishLover7

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How can they possibly gauge Donald Trump on that scale? He's been on both sides of MAJOR issues.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WpKiP_gmDS8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Already thought about that. They need to have the option of selecting "yes" and "no" , while being able to select both "most important" and "least important". Ala, him being prochoice and prolife.

What's the highest anyone got for Donald Trump? I was 32%. I'm curious to see how many sociopaths we have on here.
 

wizards8507

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What's the highest anyone got for Donald Trump? I was 32%. I'm curious to see how many sociopaths we have on here.
89 Cruz
86 Rubio
85 Johnson
81 Trump

44 Bernie
39 Hillary

I can't figure out how they're calculating this. I'd still vote for Hillary over Trump.
 

IrishLax

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Turns out you can't vote in both primaries... accordingly, I voted in the Republican one and against Trump. Near the city, the sentiment was EXTREMELY anti-Trump.
 

connor_in

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Turns out you can't vote in both primaries... accordingly, I voted in the Republican one and against Trump. Near the city, the sentiment was EXTREMELY anti-Trump.

You originally from Chicago or something?
 

Whiskeyjack

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TAC's Andrew Bacevich just published an article titled "What Trumpism Means for Democracy":

Whether or not Donald Trump ultimately succeeds in winning the White House, historians are likely to rank him as the most consequential presidential candidate of at least the past half-century. He has already transformed the tone and temper of American political life. If he becomes the Republican nominee, he will demolish its structural underpinnings as well. Should he prevail in November, his election will alter its very fabric in ways likely to prove irreversible. Whether Trump ever delivers on his promise to “Make America Great Again,” he is already transforming American democratic practice.

Trump takes obvious delight in thumbing his nose at the political establishment and flouting its norms. Yet to classify him as an anti-establishment figure is to miss his true significance. He is to American politics what Martin Shkreli is to Big Pharma. Each represents in exaggerated form the distilled essence of a much larger and more disturbing reality. Each embodies the smirking cynicism that has become one of the defining characteristics of our age. Each in his own way is a sign of the times.

In contrast to the universally reviled Shkreli, however, Trump has cultivated a mass following that appears impervious to his missteps, miscues, and misstatements. What Trump actually believes—whether he believes in anything apart from big, splashy self-display—is largely unknown and probably beside the point. Trumpism is not a program or an ideology. It is an attitude or pose that feeds off, and then reinforces, widespread anger and alienation.

The pose works because the anger—always present in certain quarters of the American electorate but especially acute today—is genuine. By acting the part of impish bad boy and consciously trampling on the canons of political correctness, Trump validates that anger. The more outrageous his behavior, the more secure his position at the very center of the political circus. Wondering what he will do next, we can’t take our eyes off him. And to quote Marco Rubio in a different context, Trump “knows exactly what he is doing.”

♦♦♦

There is a form of genius at work here. To an extent unmatched by any other figure in American public life, Trump understands that previous distinctions between the ostensibly serious and the self-evidently frivolous have collapsed. Back in 1968, then running for president, Richard Nixon, of all people, got things rolling when he appeared on Laugh-In and uttered the immortal words, “Sock it to me?” But no one has come close to Trump in grasping the implications of all this: in contemporary America, celebrity confers authority. Mere credentials or qualifications have become an afterthought. How else to explain the host of a “reality” TV show instantly qualifying as a serious contender for high office?

For further evidence of Trump’s genius, consider the skill with which he plays the media, especially celebrity journalists who themselves specialize in smirking cynicism. Rather than pretending to take them seriously, he unmasks their preening narcissism, which mirrors his own. He refuses to acknowledge their self-assigned role as gatekeepers empowered to police the boundaries of permissible discourse. As the embodiment of “breaking news,” he continues to stretch those boundaries beyond recognition.

In that regard, the spectacle of televised “debates” has offered Trump an ideal platform for promoting his cult of personality. Once a solemn, almost soporific forum for civic education—remember Kennedy and Nixon in 1960?—presidential debates now provide occasions for trading insults, provoking gaffes, engaging in verbal food fights, and marketing magical solutions to problems ranging from war to border security that are immune to magic. For all of that we have Trump chiefly to thank.

Trump’s success as a campaigner schools his opponents, of course. In a shrinking Republican field, survival requires mimicking his antics. In that regard, Ted Cruz rates as Trump’s star pupil. Cruz is to Trump what Lady Gaga was to Amy Winehouse—a less freewheeling, more scripted, and arguably more calculating version of the original.

Yet if not a clone, Cruz taps into the same vein of pissed-off, give-me-my-country-back rage that Trump himself has so adeptly exploited. Like the master himself, Cruz has demonstrated a notable aptitude for expressing disagreement through denigration and for extravagant, crackpot promises. For his part, Marco Rubio, the only other Republican still seriously in the running, lags not far behind. When it comes to swagger and grandiosity, nothing beats a vow to create a “New American Century,” thereby resurrecting a mythic past when all was ostensibly right with the world.

On two points alone do these several Republicans see eye-to-eye. The first relates to domestic policy, the second to America’s role in the world.

On point one: with absolute unanimity, Trump, Cruz, and Rubio ascribe to Barack Obama any and all problems besetting the nation. To take their critique at face value, the country was doing swimmingly well back in 2009 when Obama took office. Today, it’s FUBAR, due entirely to Obama’s malign actions.

Wielding comparable authority, however, a Republican president can, they claim, dismantle Obama’s poisonous legacy and restore all that he has destroyed. From “day one,” on issues ranging from health care to immigration to the environment, the Republican candidates vow to do exactly this. With the stroke of a pen and the wave of a hand, it will be a breeze.

On point two: ditto. Aided and abetted by Hillary Clinton, Obama has made a complete hash of things abroad. Here the list of Republican grievances is especially long. Thanks to Obama, Russia threatens Europe; North Korea is misbehaving; China is flexing its military muscles; ISIS is on the march; Iran has a clear path to acquiring nuclear weapons; and perhaps most distressingly of all, Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, is unhappy with U.S. policy.

Here, too, the Republican candidates see eye-to-eye and have solutions readily at hand. In one way or another, all of those solutions relate to military power. Trump, Cruz, and Rubio are unabashed militarists. (So, too, is Hillary Clinton, but that’s an issue deserving an essay of its own). Their gripe with Obama is that he never put American military might fully to work, a defect they vow to amend. A Republican commander-in-chief, be it Trump, Cruz, or Rubio, won’t take any guff from Moscow or Pyongyang or Beijing or Tehran. He will eradicate “radical Islamic terrorism,” put the mullahs back in their box, torture a bunch of terrorists in the bargain, and give Bibi whatever he wants.

In addition to offering Obama a sort of backhanded tribute—so much damage wrought by just one man in so little time—the Republican critique reinforces reigning theories of presidential omnipotence. Just as an incompetent or ill-motivated chief executive can screw everything up, so, too, can a bold and skillful one set things right.

♦♦♦

The ratio between promises made and promises fulfilled by every president in recent memory—Obama included—should have demolished such theories long ago. But no such luck. Fantasies of a great president saving the day still persist, something that Trump, Cruz, and Rubio have all made the centerpiece of their campaigns. Elect me, each asserts. I alone can save the Republic.

Here, however, Trump may enjoy an edge over his competitors, including Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. With Americans assigning to their presidents the attributes of demigods—each and every one memorialized before death with a library-shrine—who better to fill the role than an egomaniacal tycoon who already acts the part? The times call for strong leadership. Who better to provide it than a wheeler-dealer unbothered by the rules that constrain mere mortals?

What then lies ahead?

If Trump secures the Republican nomination, now an increasingly imaginable prospect, the party is likely to implode. Whatever rump organization survives will have forfeited any remaining claim to represent principled conservatism.

None of this will matter to Trump, however. He is no conservative and Trumpism requires no party. Even if some new institutional alternative to conventional liberalism eventually emerges, the two-party system that has long defined the landscape of American politics will be gone for good.

Should Trump or a Trump mini-me ultimately succeed in capturing the presidency, a possibility that can no longer be dismissed out of hand, the effects will be even more profound. In all but name, the United States will cease to be a constitutional republic. Once President Trump inevitably declares that he alone expresses the popular will, Americans will find that they have traded the rule of law for a version of caudillismo. Trump’s Washington could come to resemble Buenos Aires in the days of Juan Perón, with Melania a suitably glamorous stand-in for Evita, and plebiscites suitably glamorous stand-ins for elections.

That a considerable number of Americans appear to welcome this prospect may seem inexplicable. Yet reason enough exists for their disenchantment. American democracy has been decaying for decades. The people know that they are no longer truly sovereign. They know that the apparatus of power, both public and private, does not promote the common good, itself a concept that has become obsolete. They have had their fill of irresponsibility, lack of accountability, incompetence, and the bad times that increasingly seem to go with them.

So in disturbingly large numbers they have turned to Trump to strip bare the body politic, willing to take a chance that he will come up with something that, if not better, will at least be more entertaining. As Argentines and others who have trusted their fate to demagogues have discovered, such expectations are doomed to disappointment.

In the meantime, just imagine how the Donald J. Trump Presidential Library, no doubt taller than all the others put together, might one day glitter and glisten—perhaps with a casino attached.
 

connor_in

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trump is a lier! <a href="https://t.co/tVVu0YWyOl">pic.twitter.com/tVVu0YWyOl</a></p>— BT (@back_ttys) <a href="https://twitter.com/back_ttys/status/704749708334514176">March 1, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

(Linked as such because apparently origianal Donald tweet has since been deleted)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">1) Misspelled her name. <br><br>2) She's one of the most popular governors in America. Fav ratings much higher than yours! <a href="https://t.co/6LsInA8kuG">https://t.co/6LsInA8kuG</a></p>— Guy Benson (@guypbenson) <a href="https://twitter.com/guypbenson/status/704749837590380544">March 1, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump">@realDonaldTrump</a>, Bless your heart.</p>— Nikki Haley (@nikkihaley) <a href="https://twitter.com/nikkihaley/status/704756959019474948">March 1, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

kmoose

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Already thought about that. They need to have the option of selecting "yes" and "no" , while being able to select both "most important" and "least important". Ala, him being prochoice and prolife.

What's the highest anyone got for Donald Trump? I was 32%. I'm curious to see how many other sociopaths we have on here.

FIFY
 
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ACamp1900

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Off memory Trump was in the low 60's on mine...
 

IrishLax

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You originally from Chicago or something?

They're open primaries! Why can't you vote in both!

EDIT: CNN just broadcast from Ashburn, VA and said that there was "heavy turnout" from "highly educated, affluent voters" who favored Rubio. So NoVA doing it's job. #MakeDonalDrumpfAgain
 
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Whiskeyjack

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Here's an article from Jonathan Chait responding to that WSJ piece, titled "How Donald Trump Made Republicans Half Aware of Racism":

Donald Trump represents a threat to conservatism in two ways. He is extremely likely to lose if nominated, and even if elected, he engenders little confidence that he will see the party agenda through. The fact that Trump threatens rather than promotes conservative interests has enabled conservative intellectuals to see certain truths that they once obscured: There are deep strands of racial resentment and anti-intellectualism running through the Republican electorate. But these angry spasms of half-recognition attempt to quarantine Trump from a political tradition of which he is very much a part. Bret Stephens’s column in today’s Wall Street Journal provides a comic example of the sort of naïveté circulating among the anti-Trump right. William F. Buckley’s break with the anti-Semitic right, argues Stephens, established the conservative movement as racism-free. “The word for Buckley’s act is 'lustration,' and for two generations it upheld the honor of the mainstream conservative movement. Liberals may have been fond of claiming that Republicans were all closet bigots and that tax cuts were a form of racial prejudice, but the accusation rang hollow because the evidence for it was so tendentious.” Now, Stephens laments, that sterling record of racial innocence is threatened by Trump.

It is true that Buckley disassociated conservatives from one strand of the far right. On the whole, though, Buckley set the conservative movement and the Republican Party on the course it finds itself today. Buckley was a defender of white supremacy and segregation in the 1960s, and then a defender of apartheid in the 1980s. Buckley’s publisher, William Rusher, argued for the GOP to recast itself as an ideologically conservative party by bringing southern whites into the fold. Buckley helped turn a party that once had congenial relations with academic experts into a raging populist force. “I would rather be governed by the first 2000 people in the Manhattan phone book,” he famously declared, “than the entire faculty of Harvard.”

If you comb through Buckley’s writings on race, the emphasis falls less on a principled defense of racial apartheid in the United States and South Africa (though he did offer that) than on resentment against its critics. Buckley was simply far less interested in racial oppression than in the hypocrisy, obnoxiousness, and potential overreach of its critics. That spirit defined racial conservatism then, and defines it today. To read the pages of National Review, or The Wall Street Journal editorial page, racism against nonwhites is a virtually nonexistent problem. Conservatives are instead fixated on the way the racial debate has been turned against conservatives or white people.

Now, for those unfamiliar with my beliefs on this subject, I think it is absolutely correct that the left has adopted dogmatic and unfair ways of conceptualizing identity politics so as to stigmatize any dissent from its preferred solutions. But one can and must believe this while also understanding that racism remains a demonstrably powerful force in American life. No such recognition exists in conservative discourse. In National Review and The Wall Street Journal, race is just a card. Republican voters heavily believe that whites have become, on balance, the victims of racial discrimination:

01-trump-racism-chart.w529.h352.jpg


As for Trump’s anti-intellectualism, he is certainly less cogent than figures like Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz. But he has no weaker a command of the issues than Sarah Palin, who blathered incoherently through the closing months of the 2008 campaign. At the time, Palin, a reliable conservative, enjoyed blanket support of the movement, including National Review and Bret Stephens. Even a year after the 2008 election, long after Palin’s lack of basic familiarity with American government had revealed itself, conservatives continued to defend her.

In 2009, Rich Lowry, a successor to Buckley as National Review editor, admiringly assessed her populist appeal to the party base. Palin, he wrote:

represents less a philosophical strain on the right than an affect and a demographic. What makes her otherwise orthodox conservatism different is the plain-spoken, combative way she expresses it and the constituency she attracts...
Republicans need these voters more than ever given the roiling grassroots revolt against Obama’s governance. Without them, they can’t get a majority; they’d be doomed if they were ever to slide into a splinter party.

The Trump constituency factored into conservative calculations all along. Conservatives courted them, defended them, and understood all along that their votes would supply the margin needed to implement conservative ideas, even if many of those ideas (like supply-side economics and neoconservative foreign policy) had little natural appeal to those voters. They even understood, as Lowry very explicitly laid out, that those voters would doom the orthodox conservatives if they formed a splinter party. The one thing Buckley and his successors failed to imagine, though, is that those people would actually one day take over.
 

GATTACA!

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They're open primaries! Why can't you vote in both!

EDIT: CNN just broadcast from Ashburn, VA and said that there was "heavy turnout" from "highly educated, affluent voters" who favored Rubio. So NoVA doing it's job. #MakeDonalDrumpfAgain

Since that episode aired Trumps numbers have gone up.

jTpin1l.jpg
 

Whiskeyjack

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Since that episode aired Trumps numbers have gone up.

jTpin1l.jpg

It was a great episode, but it likely didn't dissuade a single voter away from Trump. There's virtually zero overlap between Oliver's audience and Trump's supporters.
 

gkIrish

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Since that episode aired Trumps numbers have gone up.

People really don't understand the "all publicity is good publicity" theory. I firmly believe Trump would not have been in the position he is in today if liberals and everyone else who went completely nuts on social media when he first started his campaign had just shut up and let things run their course. Instead, I had people on my Facebook page point out something stupid Trump said EVERY SINGLE DAY from maybe December to the present. I'm smart enough not to let something like that affect who I vote for but there are a lot of weak-minded ignorant people in the world who are voting for Trump just because that's the guy they see on TV all the time and read about on everyone's Facebook page.
 

GoIrish41

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People really don't understand the "all publicity is good publicity" theory. I firmly believe Trump would not have been in the position he is in today if liberals and everyone else who went completely nuts on social media when he first started his campaign had just shut up and let things run their course. Instead, I had people on my Facebook page point out something stupid Trump said EVERY SINGLE DAY from maybe December to the present. I'm smart enough not to let something like that affect who I vote for but there are a lot of weak-minded ignorant people in the world who are voting for Trump just because that's the guy they see on TV all the time and read about on everyone's Facebook page.

That theory doesn't seem to apply to Hillary. Besides, don't blame the liberals for Trump. He is the GOP's cross to bear.
 
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