Mass shooting in San Bernardino, CA

[BleedBlueGold]

They said the same thing about Obamacare not being a backdoor path to socialized single-payer health insurance, but that was a lie, too. That's the thing about Progressives. They never stop progressing. They start with a fine idea and then, once they achieve their stated (often noble) goals, they move on to the next logical step.

Feminism:
Good goal - Women get the right to vote
Good goal - Women have fair access to education and employment
Radical agenda - Abortion on-demand, free contraception, shaming of stay-at-home moms

Alternative lifestyles:
Good goal - End violence and hostility towards homosexuals
Radical agenda - Normalize deviant behavior, lionize genital mutilation as "courageous"

Race:
Good goal - End slavery
Good goal - The Civil Rights movement
Radical agenda - Affirmative action, racial quotas, #BlackLivesMatter, #FuckThePolice

So forgive me for not buying the leftist argument that "no one is seriously advocating we ban all weapons and go door-to-door forcing gun owners to turn them in."

And before you accuse me of it, I'm not singling out that one line for comment. I'm responding to your entire post but clipped the quote to save thread clutter.

So what's your point? Do nothing out of fear that a little compromise from either side will end up forcing the issue way left? God forbid we try to be actionable towards a serious issue in this country because of potential conflict with right wing rhetoric. (And because this isn't the politics thread, I'm not going to debate every issue you just listed.)

 

[no.1IrishFan]

.

 

[kmoose]

I do not. But the example fit my rhetoric so I went with it.

Neither do I. I heard this story last week, and it made me wonder what else was in it that people would choose to vote against keeping people on the terror watch list from buying firearms.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

You have got to be out of your flippin mind.

Christian roots is the ONLY reason America stands out as the worlds leader in giving, support and brotherly love. You have no clue what you are talking about. Ive been to Europe. Ive walked in Russia where if you are bleeding in the streets, people just walk around you. Have you?

Mankind is a wretched, terrible thing. Self serving, self obsessed and without remorse nor care. Take God out of our lives and you will see something you truly arent prepared for.

Just a terrible post.

 

[Rhode Irish]

You have got to be out of your flippin mind.

Christian roots is the ONLY reason America stands out as the worlds leader in giving, support and brotherly love. You have no clue what you are talking about. Ive been to Europe. Ive walked in Russia where if you are bleeding in the streets, people just walk around you. Have you?

Mankind is a wretched, terrible thing. Self serving, self obsessed and without remorse nor care. Take God out of our lives and you will see something you truly arent prepared for.

This post is insane to the point of being truly worrisome.

 

[wizards8507]

Reports now that this couple had twelve pipe bombs in their home.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Reports now that this couple had twelve pipe bombs in their home.

Listened to the FBI's presser this morning. While the agent in charge gave very little information. I could tell he had a lot of info he was not ready to share as well. And I am fine with that right now. He kept going back to understanding the motive behind the attack. The info gathered at the residence, the electronic data, the travel to Saudi and Pakistan, the newly added emphasis on the wife being more than a wife, etc., all points to a preplanned terror attack and not simply a WPV incident.

But I am willing to give the FBI the time they need to get it correct. Nothing would hurt their credibility more than having to back track on statements they put out. As much as I dislike government, I still have some respect for the greatest investigators in the world. They will find out everything they need. Hopefully once they do we will know exactly what motivated the attack.

 

[Emcee77]

isn't this ACamp's 'hood? I wonder if he's heard anything we haven't.

 

[drayer54]

Reports now that this couple had twelve pipe bombs in their home.

California must move quick to enact bomb control so that this kind of tragedy doesn't happen again.

 

[NDdomer2]

Listened to the FBI's presser this morning. While the agent in charge gave very little information. I could tell he had a lot of info he was not ready to share as well. And I am fine with that right now. He kept going back to understanding the motive behind the attack. The info gathered at the residence, the electronic data, the travel to Saudi and Pakistan, the newly added emphasis on the wife being more than a wife, etc., all points to a preplanned terror attack and not simply a WPV incident.

But I am willing to give the FBI the time they need to get it correct. Nothing would hurt their credibility more than having to back track on statements they put out. As much as I dislike government, I still have some respect for the greatest investigators in the world. They will find out everything they need. Hopefully once they do we will know exactly what motivated the attack.

havent read anything on this. what you talking about willis?

 

[ginman]

I need to include more italics in my posts. I also cannot use the quote function on my work computer so can't add it here (apologies for that).

What I was trying to say in my previous post is that based on our own personal views we often do contortions to make incidents like this fit our existing belief structure. I personally believe that radical Islamic terrorism is a growing and real problem and we will see more of it as we move forward. To pretend that these incidents (FT hood, Oklahoma and this event) occurred because of gun laws or something about the work environment is a way to try to make sense of incomprehensible violence stemming from a really crazy belief system for a small percentage of Muslims. To think that more gun laws would prevent it is missing the point. Furthermore, trying to say this is WPV somehow suggests that these people were treated poorly at work and they reacted to mistreatment somehow seems more acceptable than to accept the truth. In none of these cases were the perpetrators shown to be targeted employees. Sometimes the most obvious, consistent, and simple explanation is the closest to truth.

 

[connor_in]

I need to include more italics in my posts. I also cannot use the quote function on my work computer so can't add it here (apologies for that).

What I was trying to say in my previous post is that based on our own personal views we often do contortions to make incidents like this fit our existing belief structure. I personally believe that radical Islamic terrorism is a growing and real problem and we will see more of it as we move forward. To pretend that these incidents (FT hood, Oklahoma and this event) occurred because of gun laws or something about the work environment is a way to try to make sense of incomprehensible violence stemming from a really crazy belief system for a small percentage of Muslims. To think that more gun laws would prevent it is missing the point. Furthermore, trying to say this is WPV somehow suggests that these people were treated poorly at work and they reacted to mistreatment somehow seems more acceptable than to accept the truth. In none of these cases were the perpetrators shown to be targeted employees. Sometimes the most obvious, consistent, and simple explanation is the closest to truth.

Occam's razor

 

[Wingman Ray]

This post is insane to the point of being truly worrisome.

Says he of no faith.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Says he of no faith.

You argued that Americans are good people because of our Christian roots, and contrasted that with Europe/ Russia, despite the fact that the roots of Christendom are far deeper there (by thousands of years) than here in the States. Not a good example for demonstrating the cultural importance of Christianity.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Says he of no faith.

LOL. So correct me if I'm wrong but faith in one's God/religion is what's playing the biggest role in these terror attacks (which this one in particular may end up being...we will have to wait and see).

Radical Islamic Fundamentalists shoot up California
Radical Christian Fundamentalist shoots up Planned Parenthood

 

[Whiskeyjack]

LOL. So correct me if I'm wrong but faith in one's God/religion is what's playing the biggest role in these terror attacks (which this one in particular may end up being...we will have to wait and see).

Radical Islamic Fundamentalists shoot up California
Radical Christian Fundamentalist shoots up Planned Parenthood

That comparison isn't even remotely fair.

 

[wizards8507]

Now looking like the gameplan for the attacks came from Inspire Magazine. Workplace violence, indeed.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

That comparison isn't even remotely fair.

Why not?

Both terrorists used their extreme ideologies to justify carrying out an act of violence. I think it's a great comparison and the fact that this country refuses to label a radical/extremist Christian terrorist as such is insanity.

 

[drayer54]

LOL. So correct me if I'm wrong but faith in one's God/religion is what's playing the biggest role in these terror attacks (which this one in particular may end up being...we will have to wait and see).

Radical Islamic Fundamentalists shoot up California
Radical Christian Fundamentalist shoots up Planned Parenthood

Islaatimic terrorism is, by definition, terrorist acts committed by Muslim groups or individuals who profess Islamic or Islamist motivons or goals
- Wikipedia

Christian terrorism comprises terrorist acts by groups or individuals who profess Christian motivations or goals
-Wikipedia

I would say both were acts of terrorism. I think most would agree on that.

Was PP for Christian motivation? I could see that as well.
SB sounds like it meets the criteria as well.

So I'll nod that one after reading it with a disapproving initial gut feeling.

 

[wizards8507]

Both terrorists used their extreme ideologies to justify carrying out an act of violence.

Bullshit. One of those guys was disturbed at the thought of baby parts being sold as a commodity. The other one wanted to murder a bunch of westerners to incite terror. No, that doesn't justify the Planned Parenthood shooting, but they aren't even remotely the same thing.

So correct me if I'm wrong but faith in one's God/religion is what's playing the biggest role in these terror attacks.

Yes, you're wrong. One of those religions actively instructs its adherents to commit these acts. A murderer who is a Christian is not the same as a guy who is acting on the instruction of some Christian church. These Islamic terrorists are acting on orders and teachings right from the caliphate.

Westboro Baptist Church is a Christian terrorist organization.

 

[goldandblue]

LOL. So correct me if I'm wrong but faith in one's God/religion is what's playing the biggest role in these terror attacks (which this one in particular may end up being...we will have to wait and see).

Radical Islamic Fundamentalists shoot up California
Radical Christian Fundamentalist shoots up Planned Parenthood

Blind as a bat.....

 

[GATTACA!]

Why not?

Both terrorists used their extreme ideologies to justify carrying out an act of violence. I think it's a great comparison and the fact that this country refuses to label a radical/extremist Christian terrorist as such is insanity.

I agree both were terrorism. The problem is in the case of the Islamic terror a much much larger portion of the Muslim community agree with the actions of that attacker. Of course it's a drop in the bucket compared to the number of law abiding peaceful Muslims, especially in this country, but comparativly can you come up with another mass shooting/bombing done in the name of Christianity? Attacks in the name of Allah are happening daily in the middle east.

 

[T Town Tommy]

havent read anything on this. what you talking about willis?

Some speculation that she was the one behind the radicalization of the husband. Reports were that the FBI was trying to work with the Pakistani government to find out more about her background. Centers around the fact that she had a six month old baby and WPV doesn't lend itself to basically a suicide mission but that radical religious beliefs do.

 

[woolybug25]

I agree both were terrorism. The problem is in the case of the Islamic terror a much much larger portion of the Muslim community agree with the actions of that attacker. Of course it's a drop in the bucket compared to the number of law abiding peaceful Muslims, especially in this country, but comparativly can you come up with another mass shooting/bombing done in the name of Christianity? Attacks in the name of Allah are happening daily in the middle east.

Like the fundamentalist Christian who shot up the Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs last week?

 

[irishfanjho15]

I am a law enforcement officer and I have no problem with people having guns, despite it being the greatest danger for my line of work. I also work in casinos, where it is prohibited for anyone aside from myself and my colleagues to carry weapons, guns or knives, yet this does not give me peace of mind, nor do I believe it stops people from carrying weapons. Instead I remain vigilant and careful in all contacts I have with the public, and just hope I get to go home every night.

Basically, what I'm saying is that gun-control will not stop people from having and using weapons where they are not supposed to. A dangerous criminal is going to bring a gun into the casino I work at regardless of whether it's against the law or not, if he or she a) wants to use it, b) feels he or she needs it for protection, and/or c) generally wants to have it with them.

Like someone else said in this thread, I'm rather be in a shootout than a massacre. But I also took an oath to protect the innocent, so putting myself in harm's way was my choice. The government cannot change whether "harm's way" will hurt innocence people with words on a piece of paper and signatures from people in ivory towers.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Bullshit. One of those guys was disturbed at the thought of baby parts being sold as a commodity. The other one wanted to murder a bunch of westerners to incite terror. No, that doesn't justify the Planned Parenthood shooting, but they aren't even remotely the same thing.


Yes, you're wrong. One of those religions actively instructs its adherents to commit these acts. A murderer who is a Christian is not the same as a guy who is acting on the instruction of some Christian church. These Islamic terrorists are acting on orders and teachings right from the caliphate.

Westboro Baptist Church is a Christian terrorist organization.

You're making this too complicated to fit your agenda. He used pro-Right, pro-life beliefs (the latter is directly correlated to his Christian beliefs) to commit his crime. Did the church or Bible instruct him to act as a vigilante? No. But his actions were a reflection of his beliefs.

 

[irishfanjho15]

I also conceal carry a handgun everywhere I go along with my badge and an extra magazine or two. The soon-to-be wife knows the drill if an active shooter situation was ever to occur. 1) She hides or gets out of building if possible, 2) she calls 911 explains to best of her knowledge number of shooters, descriptions, and weapons, and 3) explains that I am a LEO, gives my full name, DOB, the department I work for with my badge number, and that he is attempting to stop the threat and gives a thorough description of what I am wearing and the weapon I am using, so I do not get shot by first responders.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I agree both were terrorism. The problem is in the case of the Islamic terror a much much larger portion of the Muslim community agree with the actions of that attacker. Of course it's a drop in the bucket compared to the number of law abiding peaceful Muslims, especially in this country, but comparativly can you come up with another mass shooting/bombing done in the name of Christianity? Attacks in the name of Allah are happening daily in the middle east.

People keep deflecting the Planned Parenthood attacker. But if that's not good enough, how about any KKK attack? Take your pick.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

LOL. So correct me if I'm wrong but faith in one's God/religion is what's playing the biggest role in these terror attacks (which this one in particular may end up being...we will have to wait and see).

Radical Islamic Fundamentalists shoot up California
Radical Christian Fundamentalist shoots up Planned Parenthood

Radical Islam has declared war on the West, its numbers in the thousands or millions (depending on how we categorize the militants, supporters, financiers, etc).

Radical Christianity has declared war on no one. One nutjob who was anti abortion committed murder.

If you can't see the difference, that's a you problem.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The fact remains that over 350 incidents have occurred this year that involved shooting and the killing and wounding of more than four people. Whether or not the federal government and its NRA lobbyists restrict that definition means little to me.

Would you be less bothered if they were all suicide bombings rather than guns?