Police State USA

[IrishJayhawk]

This. If this is how people who work in schools are trained to deal with obstinant children, there is a huge problem. If another student would have flipped her desk and rag dolled her like that, there would be an expulsion and possibly a law suit. Not sure why the same would not be true in this case.

No one is excusing her belligerence. But it's not a stretch to say that he could have seriously injured her when he flipped the desk with her in it.

 

[GoIrish41]

No one is excusing her belligerence. But it's not a stretch to say that he could have seriously injured her when he flipped the desk with her in it.

Totally agree.

 

[IrishLax]

I am not necessarily opposed to using some physical force to move the student. This incident goes so far beyond what I would consider acceptable unless she was physically attacking him. She wasn't a threat to him and he choked her and flipped the desk. Why?

Here's my thing... can you explain how exactly you would have forcibly removed her. Not "I wouldn't have done..." I mean can you walk me through what you would have done from the point that the officer cleared away nearby objects and then tried to gently remove her onward. At the point she refuses near a dozen verbal requests and then being gently pulled out of the desk... what do you?

I, personally, don't see any other way to remove someone from a desk like that short of violent yanking them out of it.

 

[IrishLax]

This. If this is how people who work in schools are trained to deal with obstinant children, there is a huge problem. If another student would have flipped her desk and rag dolled her like that, there would be an expulsion and possibly a law suit. Not sure why the same would not be true in this case.

Because it's literally his job to forcibly remove her from the desk?

Did she sustain some serious injuries I'm not aware of? Or is everyone just mad at the optics of the whole thing?

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Here's my thing... can you explain how exactly you would have forcibly removed her. Not "I wouldn't have done..." I mean can you walk me through what you would have done from the point that the officer cleared away nearby objects and then tried to gently remove her onward. At the point she refuses near a dozen verbal requests and then being gently pulled out of the desk... what do you?

I, personally, don't see any other way to remove someone from a desk like that short of violent yanking them out of it.

I am not trained as a police officer, so I could be wrong. But I have a hard time believing that what he did was his last option. I also didn't see that he yanked her out of the desk. I saw him throw the desk to the ground with her in it.

I'm very pro school resource officer. I've worked in high schools. They are generally very good people and they are put in tough situations. I think this guy lost his temper.

 

[calvegas04]

I don't really see anything wrong with that video, is the cop supposed to just put his hands up and give up?

 

[IrishLax]

I am not trained as a police officer, so I could be wrong. But I have a hard time believing that what he did was his last option. I also didn't see that he yanked her out of the desk. I saw him throw the desk to the ground with her in it.

I'm very pro school resource officer. I've worked in high schools. They are generally very good people and they are put in tough situations. I think this guy lost his temper.

He has one hand on her shoulder, the other on her pant leg throughout the encounter. The desk falls over with her, for sure. And then he basically throws her away from the desk.

To my knowledge, she suffered no serious injuries. It seems to me like a lot of people have an issue with the optics. I, personally, see a guy who exhausted a lot of other options before resulting to physical force... and then effectively got the job done without injury to the offending party.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

He has one hand on her shoulder, the other on her pant leg throughout the encounter. The desk falls over with her, for sure. And then he basically throws her away from the desk.

To my knowledge, she suffered no serious injuries. It seems to me like a lot of people have an issue with the optics. I, personally, see a guy who exhausted a lot of other options before resulting to physical force... and then effectively got the job done without injury to the offending party.

I guess we just see it very differently. I think he threw her. I don't think she was seriously injured, but that's not the point. She easily could have been.

 

[GoIrish41]

Here's my thing... can you explain how exactly you would have forcibly removed her. Not "I wouldn't have done..." I mean can you walk me through what you would have done from the point that the officer cleared away nearby objects and then tried to gently remove her onward. At the point she refuses near a dozen verbal requests and then being gently pulled out of the desk... what do you?

I, personally, don't see any other way to remove someone from a desk like that short of violent yanking them out of it.

Perhaps the desk -- with her in it -- could have been drug out the door and away from the other students. It wasn't really about removing her from her desk, it was about removing her from the room.

 

[IrishLax]

Perhaps the desk -- with her in it -- could have been drug out the door and away from the other students. It wasn't really about removing her from her desk, it was about removing her from the room.

This is a really good point. By far the best alternative I've heard anyone suggest.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

This is a really good point. By far the best alternative I've heard anyone suggest.

Would be very interested in hearing a police officer speak to this point. They know much more about the tools they have at their disposal. I also think there's a difference between moving a felon and moving a girl who was using her cell phone in class and is now being belligerent (admittedly, very annoyingly so).

 

[Wild Bill]

This is a really good point. By far the best alternative I've heard anyone suggest.

I can't imagine it would be any easier to drag both her and a desk through the doorway. I don't see how it's possible if she's trying to prevent him from removing her from the room.

 

[GoIrish41]

This is a really good point. By far the best alternative I've heard anyone suggest.

I honestly believe there is almost always a peaceful alternative if we don't get caught up in the moment.

 

[nlroma1o]

Oyy vey... kids and their damn cell phones... Someone needs to make an app where the parents can disable their kids phone, at any time, from anywhere. So if the school calls up the parent and says hey. Your brat kid has been caught on their cell phone X amount of times in the last month, the parent could then use the app disable the phone when they are at school from 8 to 3.... or whatever the hours of classes are these days. Thats my million dollar idea. No one steal it now.

 

[phgreek]

Oyy vey... kids and their damn cell phones... Someone needs to make an app where the parents can disable their kids phone, at any time, from anywhere. So if the school calls up the parent and says hey. Your brat kid has been caught on their cell phone X amount of times in the last month, the parent could then use the app disable the phone when they are at school from 8 to 3.... or whatever the hours of classes are these days. Thats my million dollar idea. No one steal it now.

They have an app for android called Ichaper. I used it with my daughter for about a year. You can effectively put them on a timer, or define when they can use certain functions...kill just texting and leave the phone on, etc.

was really good at allowing her to see her own responsibility in action w/o the phone temptation...now I can review activity, but don't need to force things...

 

[IrishLion]

One of my teacher friends posted on Facebook the other day about an idea that they got on Pinterest or something that they use in their high school classroom.

There is a shoe rack hanging on dry-erase board at the front of the room. Each spot is for a student's cell phone (I guess every student has one?). Attendance is recorded based on whether or not the student's phone is in the cubbie.

On the flip-side, there are some schools that treat cell-phone use pretty liberally now. Students can have their phones out, text, mult-task, etc. throughout the day. I have a relative with a kid at a school like this, and they say that phone usage actually decreases. They said the kids generally realize when they are on their phones too much in relation to their "responsible" peers, and so it helps curb usage.

 

[nlroma1o]

They have an app for android called Ichaper. I used it with my daughter for about a year. You can effectively put them on a timer, or define when they can use certain functions...kill just texting and leave the phone on, etc.

was really good at allowing her to see her own responsibility in action w/o the phone temptation...now I can review activity, but don't need to force things...

So my app idea already exists! If only schools could somehow incentivize parents to use it. Use the app to disable your kids phone, get a month free hot lunch for your kid.

 

[drayer54]

The FBI Director’s Troubling Comments on the ‘Ferguson Effect’
James Comey worries that a spike in crime in some cities is caused by police who are afraid to do their jobs because of public scrutiny.

FBI Director James Comey: Crime Spike May Be a Result of the 'Ferguson Effect' - The Atlantic

Is it possible that more black lives have been lost because of #blacklivesmatter?

 

[Irish Insanity]

If she couldn't be reasonably removed from the desk, or her and the desk reasonably removed from the room, why not remove everyone else from the room except maybe the teacher, and proceed from there.

 

[drayer54]

If she couldn't be reasonably removed from the desk, or her and the desk reasonably removed from the room, why not remove everyone else from the room except maybe the teacher, and proceed from there.

Who cares? This girl put herself into the situation and doesn't deserve a kindler gentler exit from the room. She got what she had coming to her. This is the wussification of America.

 

[yankeeND]

If this were my child I would be pissed! Not because the police officer had to forcefully remove her from class, but because the police officer had to forcefully remove her from class. This is ridiculous. The lack of disrespect from her forced the issue. She was given every opportunity to comply, yet she refused and was disruptive as she possibly could be. I don't like to see things like this happen to anyone, but the reality is that there are consequences for the things we do, and also the things we do not. This happens to be a case of the latter. She is only the victim of her own decisions in this situation.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I honestly believe there is almost always a peaceful alternative if we don't get caught up in the moment.

I wouldnt go as far as saying "almost always" but in a lot of situations you are right. I will highlight the situations where that idea comes crashing down:

1. Juveniles. Juveniles, especially when their are groups of them, can be very combative. Much more so than adults. Unfortunately, juveniles are also the most unpredictable. Alcohol is like throwing gasoline on a fire with juveniles.

2. Groups of people. I have been in situations when I am talking calmly with one or two people. Everyone is calm and understanding. Then more people come out to see whats going on and the person your arresting does a 180 and starts screaming. The cellphones come out. There is absolutely no way to calm down a mob of people.

3. Domestics. The most dangerous scenario for a cop to walk into. When a cop walks into a call for domestic violence or when a cop arrests the targets significant other, get ready for some problems. Tempers and emotion are at a peak plus theres usually alcohol or drugs involved.

3. A person under the influence. Always an uncomfortable situation, especially when the are really drunk or high on PCP (the strength people have when high on PCP is not from this world). Theyre unpredictable when they are under the influence and are much more prone to violence.

Look. That video was bad and the cop shouldve handled that better. But, what people who arent on the job realize is that were usually not dealing with rational people. Theres a saying the cops deal with either bad people or good people on their worst day. Most of the time the situation can be defused with simple talking. But when your in a dark alley either alone or with 1 other person and you have no idea what youre getting into; you are going to be commanding and acting decisively especially when your in a area that is known for drugs and violence. My behavior is reactive to the enviorment I am in and how the subject moves/acts.

 

[Cackalacky]

Is it possible that after calling the officer into class and repeated denials to cooperate, why not move on and continue teaching. Station the cop outside or inside call for backup maybe and once class is over let all the kids leave for their next class and then handle her while the class is empty.At this point She is under arrest, they just need to arrest her. So I do see that it might have been aggressive to handle it immediately like that causing much more of a disruption. IDK if.she was being disruptive or just not doing what she was supposed to by using the phone. I saw a few laptops open and it did not look like.she had anything out on her desk.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

If she couldn't be reasonably removed from the desk, or her and the desk reasonably removed from the room, why not remove everyone else from the room except maybe the teacher, and proceed from there.

Depends on the situation and numbers in the class. From a tactical stand point, have a classroom full of kids getting up and moving could pose a numbers of issues. Did the kid have a weapon? ie scissors- was she holding scissors threatening to cut herself or someone else?

Are the other students known to be disruptive? Would have the class move be like shaking the hornets nest?

The enviorment was tactically safe for the cop. He could see all their hands and they seemed relatively under control. The cop loses that edge hen the kids move. Not to mention if the kid is threatening to hurt herself or someone else and she succeeds while people are moving....the cop is liable for that

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Is it possible that after calling the officer into class and repeated denials to cooperate, why not move on and continue teaching. Station the cop outside or inside call for backup maybe and once class is over let all the kids leave for their next class and then handle her while the class is empty. IDK if.she was being disruptive or just not doing what she was supposed to by using the phone. I saw a few laptops open and it did not look like.she had anything out on her desk.

What if the students is still being highly disruptive? Or threatening to hurt herself or someone else? The cop cant really just walk away like that.

 

[Cackalacky]

0

What if the students is still being highly disruptive? Or threatening to hurt herself or someone else? The cop cant really just walk away like that.

We don't know she was doing that. In fact it seemed to me.that she was doing nothing but on her phone instead of paying attention in class. I don't think there was any indication.she was being disruptive, just that the teacher asked her to put her phone away.

Eta:
I don't get any info that was any threat to hurt herself at all, she was just being obstinate and obviously not gonna go anywhere, so wait for her to leave the class when it's time or after every one eaves go in and take.her then. One person holds the desk and the officer removes her, not flipping the desk and throwing her across the floor. Again at the point she is obviously gonna be arrested. Take the damn time to do it right and not violent.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

We don't know she was doing that. In fact it seemed to me.that she was doing nothing but on her phone instead of paying attention in class. I don't think there was any indication.she was being disruptive, just that the teacher asked her to put her phone away.

Youre right. We dont know either way or what happened prior to the video being shot.

 

[Cackalacky]

Youre right. We dont know either way or what happened prior to the video being shot.

I mean it does seem to me that most of these things happen because the cops lose their cool or get all pissed off because their authority is being challenged. I mean how hard would it be to have one officer restrain her, another officer zip tie her feet, zip tie her hands, then slide the desk away or slide her out. Calmly...

 

[Irish Insanity]

Who cares? This girl put herself into the situation and doesn't deserve a kindler gentler exit from the room. She got what she had coming to her. This is the wussification of America.

I'm sure at minimum her family cares. I mean she definitely made her own bed here, but let's not act like there weren't less aggressive options.

 

[Bluto]

I am not necessarily opposed to using some physical force to move the student. This incident goes so far beyond what I would consider acceptable unless she was physically attacking him. She wasn't a threat to him and he choked her and flipped the desk. Why?

Because we're a society of sadistic assholes apparently. This kid wasn't breaking any laws so why in the hell was law enforcement involved? If the kid doesn't want to learn oh well, call her parents and suspend her from school. Instead we call in Rambo and kill a fly with a bazzoka. Good job America.