'11 CA LB Joe Schmidt (Scholarship Earned)

[Luckylucci]

Your argument assumes that I, or _____ poster is similar to Aunt Jean. I'd like to think that many of us are really good at evaluating football players and are really tuned into the football program. Our knowledge is not the equivalent of watching the financial minute. You don't see reporters writing columns about how great Joe Schmidt has been on the field. Every metric out there has made it clear how bad he has been.

The only question is whether someone else can do better, not whether he is a good football player. So do we trust the head coach, who can have a multitude of biases towards Joe and against any other player (one example being that he named him captain) or do we trust our eyes?

This is whats important. There is tangible evidence over a significant period of time. Its well documented by people that know more than I do.

 

[NDRock]

Not necessarily but there are definitely games/teams where I think this style of play is relevant or at the very least dial it back from what we saw last year.

From what I've watched with ND for the last 30 years, I prefer the Diaco style to what BVG does. I did get sucked into Tenuta when he came here and that was a shitshow. I was never that excited about BVG because of that. Hopefully BVG's experience in the NFL will show this week against USC's pro-style offense. I'm not overly confident right now.

 

[rocket66]

I am confused why everyone thinks we play Joe because the coaches think he is a heck of a guy.. If he is playing, I believe because right now he is better than the other guys.. I remember what happened to this defense when he got hurt last year... I'll trust the coaches

Except Morgan played well enough to earn frosh AA honors, despite playing behind a really bad inexperienced DL. I remember him being one of the lone bright spots/fun guys to watch during that horrible second half of the season. The dude balled. Yes he made mistakes, but he flew to the ball and played his ass off. I'll take that all day over the guy that can supposedly be in the right spot but fails to make the play anyway.


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[gkIrish]

Except Morgan played well enough to earn frosh AA honors, despite playing behind a really bad inexperienced DL. I remember him being one of the lone bright spots/fun guys to watch during that horrible second half of the season. The dude balled. Yes he made mistakes, but he flew to the ball and played his ass off. I'll take that all day over the guy that can supposedly be in the right spot but fails to make the play anyway.


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I completely forgot about that. Wow....

 

[connor_in]

Your argument assumes that I, or _____ poster is similar to Aunt Jean. I'd like to think that many of us are really good at evaluating football players and are really tuned into the football program. Our knowledge is not the equivalent of watching the financial minute. You don't see reporters writing columns about how great Joe Schmidt has been on the field. Every metric out there has made it clear how bad he has been.

The only question is whether someone else can do better, not whether he is a good football player. So do we trust the head coach, who can have a multitude of biases towards Joe and against any other player (one example being that he named him captain) or do we trust our eyes?

My only response is have you seen Joe vs the other guys in the hours of practices and meetings we generally don't see but the coaches do and use for evaluation purposes? If Showtime extra footage leaks show them as better, then off with Kelly's/BVG's heads. People are generally going to act in their best interests most of the time, that's what leads me to believe that for whatever reason(coaches can't seem to coach up anyone else well enough on a consistent basis, thus a failure on their part, or whatever) somehow JS is out-something-ing these other guys

 

[Luckylucci]

From what I've watched with ND for the last 30 years, I prefer the Diaco style to what BVG does. I did get sucked into Tenuta when he came here and that was a shitshow. I was never that excited about BVG because of that. Hopefully BVG's experience in the NFL will show this week against USC's pro-style offense. I'm not overly confident right now.

I think both have there drawbacks but I tend to side with let the other team make the mistake, not us. I think when you run an overly complicated defense the chance that you as a DB, LB, or DL makes a mistake increases which in turn allows, in some cases, inferior talent to capitalize.

 

[Wild Bill]

The idea that a decision is correct because a coach made it and they know more than us is absurd. How many times have we seen a backup QB come in after an injury to the starter and go on to keep the job because he was better than the original starter. Happens all the time. It de facto means the coach made the wrong initial decision.

And it assumes all coaches on the staff are in complete agreement Joe should be starting. I'd be shocked if there wasn't disagreement.

Kelly said Schmidt wasn't fully recovered from the injury right before the Texas game. This is just pure speculation, but maybe his supporters on the staff were confident he'd progressively get healthier, quicker and better as the season went on so they decided to be patient with him. We're about to kickoff against USC and nothing has changed. Patience has to be wearing thin and the voices of dissent regarding Joe's PT are probably getting louder and louder during staff meetings. I would be shocked if he's a starter by the end of the year if doesn't elevate his game.

Just re-watch the Navy game. Focus on Martini and Schmidt. Saban, Shula and Lombardi couldn't convince me Schmidt is playing at a higher level than Martini. It's painfully obvious.

 

[ND NYC]

I'm more disappointed in the play of KVR than I am with that of Schmidt.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

But all that is meaningless considering our defense hasn't played that great. How much worse can it be without him?

Did you really have to ask that. Now you know what happens if we replace Joe in the middle: the defense will show you how much worse it can be.

The idea that a decision is correct because a coach made it and they know more than us is absurd. How many times have we seen a backup QB come in after an injury to the starter and go on to keep the job because he was better than the original starter. Happens all the time. It de facto means the coach made the wrong initial decision.

Methinks your use of "absurd" is a bit overblown. It does not de facto mean the coach made the wrong initial decision. What if that player was put in first and tanked? What if the player had an "awakening" just prior to being inserted? What if the dominoes fell perfectly but the following year the player turned to shit?

They do know more than us.

They are given more time to assess.

They have a much larger sample size.

They have been evaluating talent collectively much longer than us.

They rarely have agendas outside of winning.

If you don't believe the first three are true, I look forward to seeing you on the sideline soon.

 

[gkIrish]

Did you really have to ask that. Now you know what happens if we replace Joe in the middle: the defense will show you how much worse it can be.



Methinks your use of "absurd" is a bit overblown. It does not de facto mean the coach made the wrong initial decision. What if that player was put in first and tanked? What if the player had an "awakening" just prior to being inserted? What if the dominoes fell perfectly but the following year the player turned to shit?

They do know more than us.

They are given more time to assess.

They have a much larger sample size.

They have been evaluating talent collectively much longer than us.

They rarely have agendas outside of winning.

If you don't believe the first three are true, I look forward to seeing you on the sideline soon.

Well "what if" Nyles Morgan or Joe Schmidt fits one of the criteria you just established? What if Nyles Morgan just needs a game environment to perform (he earned freshman AA honors)?

The only way we will know if Joe is replaceable is to actually replace him. Period. Until then, I have facts (he is playing bad football) and you have conjecture (the coaches know better, Joe is better in practice, etc.)

 

[ulukinatme]

I don't get this notion that the defense has been awful under BVG. Has it been superb? No, but they've been lights out in the 2nd half of every game aside from Virginia (Which was an awful game in pretty much all facets). Their biggest problem has been starting fast and making adjustments early. If they can get that cleaned up we're in very good shape. There was a stat somewhere last week that said we were among some of the best teams in the nation when it came to 3 and out on defense. I'd rather give up a few big plays here and there and get our defense off the field more often as oppose to lots of long drives over the course of a game. Long drives ala Diaco on defense equates to a tired defense by the 4th quarter and more opportunities for injuries. There's also the fact that having more 3 and outs has been beneficial to us when it comes to field position this year.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Well "what if" Nyles Morgan or Joe Schmidt fits one of the criteria you just established? What if Nyles Morgan just needs a game environment to perform (he earned freshman AA honors)?

The only way we will know if Joe is replaceable is to actually replace him. Period. Until then, I have facts (he is playing bad football) and you have conjecture (the coaches know better, Joe is better in practice, etc.)

Lol. You have d!ck and pass it off as facts and act like I'm the only one playing the what-if game, which you are insisting is the only way to know the true value of Joe. The same can be said for any of our players.

Fact

Joe hasn't been good

Fact

Coaches keep Joe in

Fact

They believe Joe's play or contribution is good enough to merit PT over other more athletic players.

 

[NDohio]

Except Morgan played well enough to earn frosh AA honors, despite playing behind a really bad inexperienced DL. I remember him being one of the lone bright spots/fun guys to watch during that horrible second half of the season. The dude balled. Yes he made mistakes, but he flew to the ball and played his ass off. I'll take that all day over the guy that can supposedly be in the right spot but fails to make the play anyway.


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And if I recall correctly a lot of people on this board questioned how he got that honor.

I have not been impressed with Morgan. He takes really bad angles and gets beaten quite often because of that. Of course he recovers well because of his incredible athleticism.

I will fall on the side of the Martini argument though. I was more impressed with him last year when he replaced Morgan and have been really impressed with his play this year when given the opportunity. I would be all for him getting the opportunity to replace JS.

 

[gkIrish]

Lol. You have d!ck and pass it off as facts and act like I'm the only one playing the what-if game, which you are insisting is the only way to know the true value of Joe. The same can be said for any of our players.

Fact

Joe hasn't been good

Fact

Coaches keep Joe in

Fact

They believe Joe's play or contribution is good enough to merit PT over other more athletic players.

Fact 1 makes me seriously doubt Fact 3. That's all. I know you blindly trust the coaching staff so there's nothing more to debate.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't get this notion that the defense has been awful under BVG. Has it been superb? No, but they've been lights out in the 2nd half of every game aside from Virginia (Which was an awful game in pretty much all facets). Their biggest problem has been starting fast and making adjustments early. If they can get that cleaned up we're in very good shape. There was a stat somewhere last week that said we were among some of the best teams in the nation when it came to 3 and out on defense. I'd rather give up a few big plays here and there and get our defense off the field more often as oppose to lots of long drives over the course of a game. Long drives ala Diaco on defense equates to a tired defense by the 4th quarter and more opportunities for injuries. There's also the fact that having more 3 and outs has been beneficial to us when it comes to field position this year.

This season hasn't been awful and I think some good things have happened. However, the end of last year was awful and so halves of this year have been as well. Also, I think with the talent level on D that we have, we should be seeing better results.


Our red zone D continues to be a major issue and like that previous article illustrated we're still giving up a lot of explosive plays. Overall, I'm happy with a 21.2pts/game number but we are playing a team this week that is significantly ahead of that number, so we'll see how we do. This game goes a long way in how I analyze the rest of the season.

 

[NDRock]

And if I recall correctly a lot of people on this board questioned how he got that honor.

I have not been impressed with Morgan. He takes really bad angles and gets beaten quite often because of that. Of course he recovers well because of his incredible athleticism.

I will fall on the side of the Martini argument though. I was more impressed with him last year when he replaced Morgan and have been really impressed with his play this year when given the opportunity. I would be all for him getting the opportunity to replace JS.

Agree with this. I'm far from an expert but I was not impressed with Morgan last year. He does look very athletic though. It seems like Martini is always making plays and I would like to see what he could do.

 

[dang227]

If only one LB is smart enough at ND to get everyone lined up correctly, then it is entirely too complicated. If this was OSU and their "student-athletes" I could understand.


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[gkIrish]

If only one LB is smart enough at ND to get everyone lined up correctly, then it is entirely too complicated. If this was OSU and their "student-athletes" I could understand.


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That's where I'm at, too. Either someone is better than Joe or our defense is too complicated. I really don't see a third option. That's what makes me think #1 is true.

 

[Buster Bluth]

That's where I'm at, too. Either someone is better than Joe or our defense is too complicated. I really don't see a third option. That's what makes me think #1 is true.

Maybe the "Joe gets everyone lined up" line is rather overblown and Morgan/Martini just make more mental errors.

 

[gkIrish]

Maybe the "Joe gets everyone lined up" line is rather overblown and Morgan/Martini just make more mental errors.

Well maybe they make more mental errors in practice. But so did Malik. So do lots of other guys that still get significant PT. I'm advocating that they give someone else a shot. Not saying that I know for a fact that it will turn out favorably.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Well maybe they make more mental errors in practice. But so did Malik. So do lots of other guys that still get significant PT. I'm advocating that they give someone else a shot. Not saying that I know for a fact that it will turn out favorably.

Oh I've been in the "someone else" camp for a few weeks. I'm with ya, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

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[ulukinatme]

I still think Morgan and/or Martini should take some snaps with the first stringers both in practice and in games. It'll help them get 1st hand experience and game experience in those rolls and will better prepare us for next year. Not saying they should take half the reps from Joe, but maybe 1/4 or something.

 

[Luckylucci]

Well maybe they make more mental errors in practice. But so did Malik. So do lots of other guys that still get significant PT. I'm advocating that they give someone else a shot. Not saying that I know for a fact that it will turn out favorably.

And this is where we continue to be on the same page. We don't know until we try. The only thing we know is we are getting subpar play from Schmidt. Maybe everyone else ends up playing as bad, but at this point, I think its something that has to be tried.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

If only one LB is smart enough at ND to get everyone lined up correctly, then it is entirely too complicated. If this was OSU and their "student-athletes" I could understand.


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I think what makes this defense so complicated is all the damn blitzing. EVERYONE has to know what everyone else is doing to fill in and be aware of the open 'zones'. So, similar to Kelly on offense. Instead of pumping the damn breaks and work with the best you got. BVG insist on running a million different blitzes ( that has to have about a 4% success rate) so, we are stuck with Schmidt because apparently he can retain everything BVG is throwing out there.

 

[gkIrish]

Oh I've been in the "someone else" camp for a few weeks. I'm with ya, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

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And this is where we continue to be on the same page. We don't know until we try. The only thing we know is we are getting subpar play from Schmidt. Maybe everyone else ends up playing as bad, but at this point, I think its something that has to be tried.

Stop it guys. The coaches know better.

 

[GBdomer]

My only thing is about lining guys up correctly is that Joe isn't the only guy on the team that can do this. Jaylon if I recall correctly was doing a lot of this in spring ball. I just feel like teams are running at Schmidit and asking him to best you and he's just not getting the job done right now.

 

[pkt77242]

Also why can't Day get the D-linemen lined up correctly? That would just leave the 3 LBs and Smith should be able to handle that.

 

[Wingman Ray]

If Im USC, Im running and passing right at Joe all game long

 

[Luckylucci]

Also why can't Day get the D-linemen lined up correctly? That would just leave the 3 LBs and Smith should be able to handle that.

It really becomes a point of view thing. With the MLB standing behind the DL he can slightly adjust, left or right, the correct gap for the DT to be in. Would be very hard for Day to do that as he'll be getting set in his gap.

 

[Irish Insanity]

If only one LB is smart enough at ND to get everyone lined up correctly, then it is entirely too complicated. If this was OSU and their "student-athletes" I could understand.


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That's where I'm at, too. Either someone is better than Joe or our defense is too complicated. I really don't see a third option. That's what makes me think #1 is true.

It just seems like we've heard a few times from the coaching staff of players that haven't grasped this or that. So if our scheme is to complicated to get the athletes/playmakers on the filed, fix it.