'12 IN QB Gunner Kiel (Cincinnati Transfer)

[loomis41973]

If he bothers you so much, why watch?

What makes you jump to the conclusion he bothers me?

I root for the kid every game.

 

[IrishLax]

What the fuck is the point of targeting when that isn't a penalty, but Tuitt gets ejected for a normal tackle where the runner leads with his helmet?

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Just ugly.

Unfortunately what makes the hit worse is that it's sideways on the head, and the wiplash of him hitting the ground was probably just as bad as the initial contact. Definitely brutal hit.

 

[Irish#1]

What makes you jump to the conclusion he bothers me?

I root for the kid every game.

Just your comments.

 

[pkt77242]

What the fuck is the point of targeting when that isn't a penalty, but Tuitt gets ejected for a normal tackle where the runner leads with his helmet?

It was a penalty, it wasn't an ejection. Tuitt never should have been ejected, that was just a shitty call. The refs seem to have gotten this one right.

 

[loomis41973]

It was a penalty, it wasn't an ejection. Tuitt never should have been ejected, that was just a shitty call. The refs seem to have gotten this one right.

+1

 

[dad4aa]

His backup is slinging it all over the field. Anyone know the over/under for this game? 46-46 with 5:07 to play

 

[IrishLax]

It was a penalty, it wasn't an ejection. Tuitt never should have been ejected, that was just a shitty call. The refs seem to have gotten this one right.

How was it a penalty? What call did they made?

 

[pkt77242]

How was it a penalty? What call did they made?

Targeting, but the ejection got overturned. They can't overturn the penalty portion of it though on the review. So the penalty stands but the ejection doesn't.

 

[phgreek]

The thing that bothers me about this hit is that it seems pretty clear the defender was prepared for the slide and turned to deliver a lick. That is, it wasn't as though he was caught mid-air / at the last moment diving to tackle his knees and Gunner slid into the hit, rather, the defender turned and lowered himself knowing Gunner was going into a slide.

Am I seeing this wrong?

No I agree with what you are saying on this hit

My complaint is more general...Just seen too many of these targeting calls where the Defensive player commits, has his head at a point where he'd make a nice clean tackle and the offensive player drops his level...its BS

 

[NDinL.A.]

Loonies are you kidding me? Get the hell out of this thread. You're a joke.

Don't bother. He sees nothing wrong with the way he posts.

You know what the funny thing is? He calls a player that gets taken to the hospital after being hit in the head with a vicious hit a 'drama queen', but he whined and then neg-bombed me the other day in retaliation to something that happened between us FOUR (!!!) years ago LOL. He called it "fair play" in the comment section lol. Again, it happened 4 years ago.

Dude doesn't even see the irony in it all. Yeah loomis, it's Kiel, not you. God bless America.

 

[NDRock]

The thing that bothers me about this hit is that it seems pretty clear the defender was prepared for the slide and turned to deliver a lick. That is, it wasn't as though he was caught mid-air / at the last moment diving to tackle his knees and Gunner slid into the hit, rather, the defender turned and lowered himself knowing Gunner was going into a slide.

Am I seeing this wrong?

Watching it live at full speed, it didn't look dirty at all. If you just look at that 2 second, slow-motion clip then it looks different. Kiel had been running the zone read the whole game and not sliding, then he runs this play and at the last second goes into a slide. I'm not sure how a defender running full speed is supposed to adjust that quickly.

I agree that QBs should be protected in the pocket or WRs going over the middle. But a 6'4 230 lb guy running with the ball does not fit the definition of a "defenseless player". Hope he's okay.

 

[IrishLion]

no jokes at all...just report what i heard during the game....and what i've seen in previous games.

They reported DURING THE GAME that the sideline reporter WAS AT THE HOSPITAL WITH KIEL'S FAMILY.

And I don't know what you're talking about having seen in previous games. I have UC season tickets and I watch every game (as long as it doesn't interfere with ND). Kiel has been banged up plenty of times; he has recurring neck and lower back issues that caused him to miss time last season. But he's never been totally immobile and put on a stretcher with a kneck stabilizer before.

This was different. And to use a big time injury to call the kid a drama queen and try to say that he's either soft or that it's all for show?

Give me a fvcking break.

 

[Henges24]

Don't bother. He sees nothing wrong with the way he posts.

You know what the funny thing is? He calls a player that gets taken to the hospital after being hit in the head with a vicious hit a 'drama queen', but he whined and then neg-bombed me the other day in retaliation to something that happened between us FOUR (!!!) years ago LOL. He called it "fair play" in the comment section lol. Again, it happened 4 years ago.

Dude doesn't even see the irony in it all. Yeah loomis, it's Kiel, not you. God bless America.

So he usually acts like a spoiled brat?

BTW reps to make up for the neg

 

[ClausentoTate]

I thought it was an automatic ejection if the player left their feet? Why is there no review after the game to determine suspensions, etc?

 

[Monk]

A bit off topic, but if you want to see the definition of targeting look at the hit the Syracuse QB (Eric Dungey) took last week against Central Michigan. That is the worst hit I've seen yet with regards to targeting. Yes he was ejected for it.

I would embed if I knew how.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CPSTFShVAAAYGYK.mp4

 

[palinurus]

This is worse than the shit they have been calling targeting this season...and way worse than the one that got Tuitt ejected...IF THE DEFENDER IS COMMITTED, AND THE OFFENSIVE PLAYER BRINGS THEIR HEAD INTO THE HIT, shouldn't it be the offensive player's fault?

I haven't looked at the Tuitt play for a while, but I remember Tuitt coming in lower and the Pitt RB/QB being further into his slide or dive, so I really agree. I've seen so many uncalled plays worse than Tuitt's since that night, it's almost enough to make a Notre Dame fan think that some refs have it in for us.....

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I haven't looked at the Tuitt play for a while, but I remember Tuitt coming in lower and the Pitt RB/QB being further into his slide or dive, so I really agree. I've seen so many uncalled plays worse than Tuitt's since that night, it's almost enough to make a Notre Dame fan think that some refs have it in for us.....

Two things :

With the Tuitt play he came in low to get under the quarterback who had become a ball carrier. The quarterback lowered his head to make head to head contact with Stephon. The call was entirely anti-Irish sentiment, or blindness and stupidity.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SCxuVXRTt3I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The play was reviewed and stood. Someone has some money on Pitt! It was nothing like either of the other examples!

 

[Monk]

Two things :

With the Tuitt play he came in low to get under the quarterback who had become a ball carrier. The quarterback lowered his head to make head to head contact with Stephon. The call was entirely anti-Irish sentiment, or blindness and stupidity.


The play was reviewed and stood. Someone has some money on Pitt! It was nothing like either of the other examples!

I'm so very upset that you posted that video and made me relive how incredibly mad I was at that point in time.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I'm so very upset that you posted that video and made me relive how incredibly mad I was at that point in time.

LOL. Me too. I couldn't resist watching it again and felt my blood pressure rising.

 

[IrishLax]

Targeting, but the ejection got overturned. They can't overturn the penalty portion of it though on the review. So the penalty stands but the ejection doesn't.

....

 

[wizards8507]

Targeting, but the ejection got overturned. They can't overturn the penalty portion of it though on the review. So the penalty stands but the ejection doesn't.

That's not the rule anymore. They changed that this year.

Football Rules Committee slightly adjusts targeting rule, defensive substitutions | NCAA.org - The Official Site of the NCAA

...if the instant replay official rules that a disqualification should not have occurred, and if the targeting foul is not accompanied by another personal foul, the 15-yard penalty for targeting should not be enforced.

 

[Bluto]

Heard on the radio this morning that something like 40 FBS teams are down to their number 2 QB this season. Pretty interesting stat if true.

 

[BGIF]

A bit off topic, but if you want to see the definition of targeting look at the hit the Syracuse QB (Eric Dungey) took last week against Central Michigan. That is the worst hit I've seen yet with regards to targeting. Yes he was ejected for it.

I would embed if I knew how.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CPSTFShVAAAYGYK.mp4

QBs legs are wrapped, knees on the ground, defenseless, and he doesn't even have the ball after throwing a TD pass. At the least it's roughing the passer.

It doesn't show in the 2 second video linked above but the CMU DE Stanitzek took 2 to 2-1/2 steps before striking the QB. He made no attempt to alter his line of pursuit, no attempt to slow down to avoid the tackled QB nor soften the blow. He also made no attempt to wrap or tackle the QB. But he did lower his head to strike the defenseless QB with the crown of his helmet.

Stanitzek is a sophomore, the Targeting Rule was put in place for the '13 season. It was the law before he played in his first practice. The half game suspension is inadequate. He should be ejected and suspended from the next game. A follow up offense should draw a 3 game suspension, another reoccurrence gone for the season.


Here's a 2 minute video that shows several angles.

https://once.unicornmedia.com/now/a...690396&UMADPARAMcsid=espn:clips:twittermobile

 

[Wingman Ray]

A bit off topic, but if you want to see the definition of targeting look at the hit the Syracuse QB (Eric Dungey) took last week against Central Michigan. That is the worst hit I've seen yet with regards to targeting. Yes he was ejected for it.

See, Im a bit torn on the whole targeting thing. Yes, I know the QB is the golden boy and all for the team but man, if you are going to have the sack to run the ball, expect to get hit. Why should it be any different for the QB, who can change the game and really punish you with his legs if you cant really hit him? Everyone knows the QB gets every possible inch he can before sliding and in some cases, completely uses the threat of a 15 yarder to cheat the system when running down the sideline. Every time I see a QB fake the pass then tuck and run for the first down, I cant help but hope for a crushing blow. Yet it so rarely comes.

 

[Monk]

See, Im a bit torn on the whole targeting thing. Yes, I know the QB is the golden boy and all for the team but man, if you are going to have the sack to run the ball, expect to get hit. Why should it be any different for the QB, who can change the game and really punish you with his legs if you cant really hit him? Everyone knows the QB gets every possible inch he can before sliding and in some cases, completely uses the threat of a 15 yarder to cheat the system when running down the sideline. Every time I see a QB fake the pass then tuck and run for the first down, I cant help but hope for a crushing blow. Yet it so rarely comes.

See best response below. I don't disagree with you, but in the SU players case he threw the ball for a completion before he was even hit. He should be suspended for further games. How many is up for debate.

QBs legs are wrapped, knees on the ground, defenseless, and he doesn't even have the ball after throwing a TD pass. At the least it's roughing the passer.

It doesn't show in the 2 second video linked above but the CMU DE Stanitzek took 2 to 2-1/2 steps before striking the QB. He made no attempt to alter his line of pursuit, no attempt to slow down to avoid the tackled QB nor soften the blow. He also made no attempt to wrap or tackle the QB. But he did lower his head to strike the defenseless QB with the crown of his helmet.

Stanitzek is a sophomore, the Targeting Rule was put in place for the '13 season. It was the law before he played in his first practice. The half game suspension is inadequate. He should be ejected and suspended from the next game. A follow up offense should draw a 3 game suspension, another reoccurrence gone for the season.


Here's a 2 minute video that shows several angles.

https://once.unicornmedia.com/now/a...690396&UMADPARAMcsid=espn:clips:twittermobile

 

[stlnd01]

See, Im a bit torn on the whole targeting thing. Yes, I know the QB is the golden boy and all for the team but man, if you are going to have the sack to run the ball, expect to get hit. Why should it be any different for the QB, who can change the game and really punish you with his legs if you cant really hit him? Everyone knows the QB gets every possible inch he can before sliding and in some cases, completely uses the threat of a 15 yarder to cheat the system when running down the sideline. Every time I see a QB fake the pass then tuck and run for the first down, I cant help but hope for a crushing blow. Yet it so rarely comes.

Running in the open field is a very different thing than getting hit while/immediately after throwing. People who target on sacks should be penalized heavily. I agree it's a bit different on downfield running plays.

 

[BGIF]

See, Im a bit torn on the whole targeting thing. Yes, I know the QB is the golden boy and all for the team but man, if you are going to have the sack to run the ball, expect to get hit. Why should it be any different for the QB, who can change the game and really punish you with his legs if you cant really hit him? Everyone knows the QB gets every possible inch he can before sliding and in some cases, completely uses the threat of a 15 yarder to cheat the system when running down the sideline. Every time I see a QB fake the pass then tuck and run for the first down, I cant help but hope for a crushing blow. Yet it so rarely comes.

So you get you didn't get to play QB in Pop Warner and you're still pissed. Got it.

Actually Ray, what does your grinding axe with QBs have to do with the Targeting Rule? The QB gets the same protection under the Targeting Rules that the other position players do.

Targeting with Crown of Helmet (Rule 9-1-3)/Targeting to Head/Neck
Area of a Defenseless player (Rule 9-1-4).


Monk posted a video from this weekend showing a QB, without the ball, getting tackled legally by one player with a second player targeting a defenseless player. You quoted Monk's post but went off on a tangent. It wasn't a running play. The QB didn't even have the ball. He had thrown a pass.

I posted a much longer video showing that the second player took a couple of steps before hitting the defenseless player late. AND that while he had time to alter his attack to avoid the late hit, he didn't. At the least it was a flag for a late hit/roughing the passer. But when the second player lowered his head striking the QB with his helmet it became targeting. It's got nothing to do with the position of the guy that he hit.

 

[BGIF]

I thought it was an automatic ejection if the player left their feet? Why is there no review after the game to determine suspensions, etc?

You can leave your feet to make a legal tackle.

On the CMU DE trying to decapitate the SYR QB, MAC officials did review the play according to media reports and said there was no further suspension as the Targeting Rule was properly applied by the officials and the ejected player did not return as proscribed.

 

[BGIF]

They reported DURING THE GAME that the sideline reporter WAS AT THE HOSPITAL WITH KIEL'S FAMILY.

And I don't know what you're talking about having seen in previous games. I have UC season tickets and I watch every game (as long as it doesn't interfere with ND). Kiel has been banged up plenty of times; he has recurring neck and lower back issues that caused him to miss time last season. But he's never been totally immobile and put on a stretcher with a kneck stabilizer before.

This was different. And to use a big time injury to call the kid a drama queen and try to say that he's either soft or that it's all for show?

Give me a fvcking break.

The announcers made a couple of conflicting statements during the game about Kiel's medical treatment. They commented that a decision will be made about the sideline reporter going to the the hospital. Later I believe they said that reporter was with the family at the hospital. After that they noted that Kiel was being treated in the stadium. The announcers were either reporting erroneous reports or were reporting speculation. They did a good job of adding confusion to the situation.