FSU Criminal Investigations

GoIrish41

GoIrish41

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gkIrish said:
Hypothetically let's say someone's wife kicks him in the ribs twice and in the head twice. Husband gets up, throws her to the ground, and kicks her in the ribs twice, and head twice. Woman dies. Do you think he would be convicted of murder or would this be self defense?
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He threw her to the ground! Not proportional! Welcome to Moose Country. Come prepared to defend every conceivable hypothetical.
 
dshans

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ACamp1900 said:
Clearly, not in any form...
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Weight! Wut?

I paid out for my "son's" diapers, saxophone (and lessons), braces, college tuition, etc, etc. and he wasn't even mine since I've never lain (or laid) a woman?

Is that your contention/supposition?

What a fool I've been!!!
 
pkt77242

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greyhammer90 said:
It's not a high standard, it's merely reasonableness under the circumstances. All the QB here needs to do is show that he reasonably believed that punching her under this circumstance was reasonably necessary to prevent his bodily injury.

I would say, almost without a doubt, that he would fail that test in court. Like I said, his size, weight, strength etc., as well as his grabbing of her arms shows that he physically controls the entire altercation, her punch was likely illegal, but unlikely to continue with more punches and unlikely to harm him, he pauses for a second after the punch and considers the situation, decides to punch her in retaliation, rears back and hits her. That's not self-defense. That's illegal retribution for a (probably) illegal assault. Like I said earlier, the legal thing to do would have been to have her thrown out of the bar or call the cops, and if she actually DID somehow injure him (with a ring or something) to sue her for battery.
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Spoken like a true lawyer.
 
B

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Cackalacky said:
What is the virtue of a proportional response?
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President Bartlett asked that question during his first meeting in the Situation Room, some fictitious Mediterranean government had shot down a plane with one of his key people on it. The Joint Chiefs recommened a proportional response of taking out a communications building in the wee hours when only the cleanning crew was on site. Bartlett was almost apoplectic when he replied, "So a proportional response is blowing up a building, killing 3 janitors in the middle of the night."
 
greyhammer90

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pkt77242 said:
Spoken like a true lawyer.
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winking_lucille_arrested_development.gif
 
C

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BGIF said:
President Bartlett asked that question during his first meeting in the Situation Room, some fictitious Mediterranean government had shot down a plane with one of his key people on it. The Joint Chiefs recommened a proportional response of taking out a communications building in the wee hours when only the cleanning crew was on site. Bartlett was almost apoplectic when he replied, "So a proportional response is blowing up a building, killing 3 janitors in the middle of the night."
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Great episode.

Bartlet: What is the virtue of a proportional response?

Bartlet: Did you know that two thousand years ago a Roman citizen could walk across the face of the known world free of the fear of molestation? He could walk across the earth unharmed, cloaked only in the words "Civis Romanis" I am a Roman citizen. So great was the retribution of Rome, universally understood as certain, should any harm befall even one of its citizens. Where was Morris' protection, or anyone else on that plane? Where is the retribution for the families and where is the warning to the rest of the world that Americans shall walk this earth unharmed, lest the clenched fist of the most mighty military force in the history of mankind comes crashing down on your house!? In otherwords, Leo, what the hell are we doing here?
Leo: We are behaving the way a superpower ought to behave.
Bartlet: Well our behavior has produced some pretty crappy results. In fact, I'm not a hundred percent sure it hasn't induced them.
Leo: What are you talking about?
Bartlet: I'm talking about two hundred and eight-six American marines in Beirut, I'm talking about Somalia, I'm talking about Nairobi.
Leo: And you think ratching up the body count's gonna act as a deterrent?
Bartlet: You're damn right.
Leo: Then you are just as dumb as these guys who think that capital punishment is going to be a deterrent for drug kingpins. As if drug kingpins didn't live their day to day lives under the possibility of execution. And their executions are a lot less dainty than ours and tend to take place without the bother and expense of due process. So my friend, if you want to start using American military strength as the arm of the Lord, you can do that, we're the only superpower left. You can conquer the world, like Charlemenge, but you better be prepared to kill everyone and you better start with me cause I will raise up an army against you and I will beat you!
Bartlet: He had a ten-day-old baby at home.
Leo: I know.
Bartlet: We are doing nothing. They dest...
Leo: We are not doing nothing. Four high rated military targets.
Bartlet: And this is good?
Leo: Of course it's not good, there is no good. It's what there is. It's how you behave if you're the most powerful nation in the world. It's proportional, it's reasonable, it's responsible, it's merciful. It's not nothing, four high rated military targets.
Bartlet: Which they'll rebuild again in six months.
Leo: So we'll blow 'em up again in six months! We're getting really good at it. (beat) It's what our fathers taught us.

Fitzwallace: Excuse me, Leo, but pardon me, Mr. President, just what else is there?
Bartlet: A disproportional response. Let the word ring forth from this time and this place, you kill an American, any American, we don't come back with a proportional response, we come back (bangs fist on table) with total disaster!

General: Are you suggesting we carpet-bomb Damascus?
Bartlet: General, I am suggesting that you and Admiral Fitzwallace and Secretary Hutchinson and the rest of the national security team take the next sixty minutes and put together a U.S. response scenario that doesn't make me think we are just docking somebody's damn allowance!
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kmoose

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greyhammer90 said:
It's not a high standard, it's merely reasonableness under the circumstances. All the QB here needs to do is show that he reasonably believed that punching her under this circumstance was reasonably necessary to prevent his bodily injury.

I would say, almost without a doubt, that he would fail that test in court. Like I said, his size, weight, strength etc., as well as his grabbing of her arms shows that he physically controls the entire altercation, her punch was likely illegal, but unlikely to continue with more punches and unlikely to harm him, he pauses for a second after the punch and considers the situation, decides to punch her in retaliation, rears back and hits her. That's not self-defense. That's illegal retribution for a (probably) illegal assault. Like I said earlier, the legal thing to do would have been to have her thrown out of the bar or call the cops, and if she actually DID somehow injure him (with a ring or something) to sue her for battery.
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So Counselor, your contention is that my client physically controlled the entire altercation.... so you mean to tell the court that you consider the punch thrown by Ms. Doe to be outside of the altercation, or is it your contention that getting punched by Ms. Doe is further example of my client's physical control?

You are the lawyer(?), so I am not really disputing your claim re: the law. I guess I am more commenting on how inane the law appears to be. He had no idea if that girl was going to hit him again. And........... if you watch the video, it appears as if someone off camera slaps at his right hand and knocks his drink to the floor, almost immediately after the girl punches him. I'm assuming that this was one of the aforementioned "Worthless girlfriend #1 or #2". But a reasonable person might assume that that smack on their hand is a prelude to another attack?
 
Irish#1

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Am I the only one thinking kmoose is sitting at his Dell hitting F5 every nanosecond so he can reply asap? lol
 
B

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kmoose said:
So Counselor, your contention is that my client physically controlled the entire altercation.... so you mean to tell the court that you consider the punch thrown by Ms. Doe to be outside of the altercation, or is it your contention that getting punched by Ms. Doe is further example of my client's physical control?

You are the lawyer(?), so I am not really disputing your claim re: the law. I guess I am more commenting on how inane the law appears to be. He had no idea if that girl was going to hit him again. And........... if you watch the video, it appears as if someone off camera slaps at his right hand and knocks his drink to the floor, almost immediately after the girl punches him. I'm assuming that this was one of the aforementioned "Worthless girlfriend #1 or #2". But a reasonable person might assume that that smack on their hand is a prelude to another attack?
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Moose, how long are you going to carry on this hypothetical BS? The Florida Statues and the Florida Judicial System matter. The police and DA agree he's da man. A judge could disagree. He'll get his day in court.

Reviewing the salient points:

Their was an incident in an bar between an underage male and underage female. There was an investigation. Statements and video procured. Johnson was arrested. She wasn't. The DA CHARGED him. He had to post a bond.

His coach suspended him a week after the incident.

His coach kick him off the team after the charges were issued and the video released.

His University President issued a statement on the inappropriateness of Johnson's actions and the appropriateness of Fisher's actions.

Local and national sportswriter's have written he should be gone.

JOHNSON through his attorney issued an apology AND volunteered that he enrolled in Substance Abuse AND Battered Women counseling.

And I believe I read she filed a complaint against him; he did not counterfile.



Johnson's attorney is trying to mitigate the reprecussions to his client, short term and long term.

Why apologize to EVERYONE involved if he was merely "defending himself?" Why is he in vountary substance abuse and battered women counseling for "defending himself"? To my knowledge he wasn't charged with being intoxicated nor with underage drinking. IF he had proof that he was the defending himself, he file a counter complaint against her documenting that.
 
kmoose

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BGIF said:
Moose, how long are you going to carry on this hypothetical BS? The Florida Statues and the Florida Judicial System matter. The police and DA agree he's da man. A judge could disagree. He'll get his day in court.

Reviewing the salient points:

Their was an incident in an bar between an underage male and underage female. There was an investigation. Statements and video procured. Johnson was arrested. She wasn't. The DA CHARGED him. He had to post a bond.

His coach suspended him a week after the incident.

His coach kick him off the team after the charges were issued and the video released.

His University President issued a statement on the inappropriateness of Johnson's actions and the appropriateness of Fisher's actions.

Local and national sportswriter's have written he should be gone.

JOHNSON through his attorney issued an apology AND volunteered that he enrolled in Substance Abuse AND Battered Women counseling.

And I believe I read she filed a complaint against him; he did not counterfile.



Johnson's attorney is trying to mitigate the reprecussions to his client, short term and long term.

Why apologize to EVERYONE involved if he was merely "defending himself?" Why is he in vountary substance abuse and battered women counseling for "defending himself"? To my knowledge he wasn't charged with being intoxicated nor with underage drinking. IF he had proof that he was the defending himself, he file a counter complaint against her documenting that.
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Again, I was not debating anyone about what the law is or isn't. It was more commentary on how dumb the law appears to be, in this case. If you don't want to read the discussion, then don't. I'm not belittling anyone or getting pissed off and calling people names. It's a discussion!
 
IrishJayhawk

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It's worth noting that Sorkin ripped himself off when he put that "proportional response" scene in the West Wing. It originally appeared in the American President.

The American President (1995): Dealing with C-STAD Bombing - Video

A. J. MacInerney: Sir, it's immediate, it's decisive, it's low-risk, and it's a proportional response.

President Andrew Shepherd: Someday someone's going to have to explain to me the virtue of a proportional response.

Such a good movie...
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HKTqS4bXugg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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NDinL.A.

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GBdomer said:
https://www.change.org/p/florida-st...b-xs-share_petition-reason_msg&fb_ref=Default

Pathetic
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Holy crap people are stupid. And FSU fans are a special kind of stupid.

Quite simply, it is not his right to play college football. He made a choice, a really, really poor choice, and there are consequences for those actions, even at FSU (unless you are, well, you know, a starter). He is owed jack shit.

Now if he serves out whatever punishment the law gives out, owns up to his mistake/stupidity, and proves to another school that he has turned his life around, then I have no problem with someone giving him another chance.

But until then, STFU FSU fans...
 
ThePiombino

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NDinL.A. said:
Holy crap people are stupid. And FSU fans are a special kind of stupid.

Quite simply, it is not his right to play college football. He made a choice, a really, really poor choice, and there are consequences for those actions, even at FSU (unless you are, well, you know, a starter). He is owed jack shit.

Now if he serves out whatever punishment the law gives out, owns up to his mistake/stupidity, and proves to another school that he has turned his life around, then I have no problem with someone giving him another chance.

But until then, STFU FSU fans...
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Agreed. I'm sure Oklahoma has him on speed dial...
 
PANDFAN

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Big news regarding <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Noles?src=hash">#Noles</a> star RB <a href="https://t.co/GMH5DRWGXC">https://t.co/GMH5DRWGXC</a></p>— Bruce Feldman (@BruceFeldmanCFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/619574560443076608">July 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: FSU RB Dalvin Cook under investigation for battery <a href="http://t.co/ybDEXv3kKr">http://t.co/ybDEXv3kKr</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/TDOnline">@tdonline</a></p>— Safid Deen (@Safid_Deen) <a href="https://twitter.com/Safid_Deen/status/619573464752648193">July 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
greyhammer90

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PANDFAN said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Big news regarding <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Noles?src=hash">#Noles</a> star RB <a href="https://t.co/GMH5DRWGXC">https://t.co/GMH5DRWGXC</a></p>— Bruce Feldman (@BruceFeldmanCFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/619574560443076608">July 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: FSU RB Dalvin Cook under investigation for battery <a href="http://t.co/ybDEXv3kKr">http://t.co/ybDEXv3kKr</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/TDOnline">@tdonline</a></p>— Safid Deen (@Safid_Deen) <a href="https://twitter.com/Safid_Deen/status/619573464752648193">July 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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NOW THIS IS INTERESTING. FSU immediately dismissed their freshman QB... lets see if they do the same with their starting RB.
 
zbikowski88

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FSU?src=hash">#FSU</a> star RB Dalvin Cook's incident w/ a woman happened the day before DeAndre Johnson punched a woman in a bar there <a href="http://t.co/QhFcq8nYkM">http://t.co/QhFcq8nYkM</a></p>— Bruce Feldman (@BruceFeldmanCFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/619575869888049152">July 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
NDohio

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greyhammer90 said:
NOW THIS IS INTERESTING. FSU immediately dismissed their freshman QB... lets see if they do the same with their starting RB.
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Nope - they sat on it for two weeks and dismissed him immediately after the video hit youtube. I'm willing to bet that if there was no video of "the punch" the punishment would have been less.
 
zbikowski88

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">State attorney's office will issue warrant for arrest of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FSU?src=hash">#FSU</a> RB Dalvin Cook, who is charged with punching a woman <a href="http://t.co/sMOu7ZPNFz">http://t.co/sMOu7ZPNFz</a></p>— Mark Schlabach (@Mark_Schlabach) <a href="https://twitter.com/Mark_Schlabach/status/619582071435075584">July 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
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