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GoIrish41

GoIrish41

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kmoose said:
Like hell you didn't:
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Oh for Christ sakes Moose, stop trying to start an argument over semantics. I explained what I meant in my response, but you want to lock on to words that are not perfectly phrased. That does not say that the reason he punched her is that she boxed him out. It says that boxing him out neither makes her a piece of shit or gives him a reason to punch her. And if that line was unclear to you, you could have read the rest of the response and saw it more fully explained as a counter to some other point you were trying to stretch beyond recognition.

"As usual, you are trying to put words in my mouth that I did not say. I never said that "he tried to push past her and then sucker punched her when she turned around to ask him to stop." She turned around and said something to him and raised her hand. He grabbed her wrists. She felt threatened and took a swing at him, and then he punched her in the face."

Unless you have the world's worst short term memory, you knew that I clarified the point in the same post. I do not think I have ever met someone who more likes to argue over dumb shit.
 
Wild Bill

Wild Bill

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GoIrish41 said:
Oh for Christ sakes Moose, stop trying to start an argument over semantics. I explained what I meant in my response, but you want to lock on to words that are not perfectly phrased. That does not say that the reason he punched her is that she boxed him out. It says that boxing him out neither makes her a piece of shit or gives him a reason to punch her. And if that line was unclear to you, you could have read the rest of the response and saw it more fully explained as a counter to some other point you were trying to stretch beyond recognition.

As usual, you are trying to put words in my mouth that I did not say. I never said that "he tried to push past her and then sucker punched her when she turned around to ask him to stop." She turned around and said something to him and raised her hand. He grabbed her wrists. She felt threatened and took a swing at him, and then he punched her in the face."

Unless you have the world's worst short term memory, you knew that I clarified the point in the same post. I do not think I have ever met someone who more likes to argue over dumb shit.
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charlie.jpg
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Veritate Duce Progredi

Veritate Duce Progredi

A man gotta have a code
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dales5050 said:
Sorry. Had to pause and laugh at you.

So now the size or strength of someone needs to be factored? Suggesting that because he is big > he was not threatened is pure stupidity. Then you top it off suggesting she should not be charged.

This is some classic SJW logic here. Nice job.
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Quite the arrogance from such a little mind. Absolutely size should be taken into account, as should gender. You believe a 13 year old girl throws a punch at you, you should retaliate? Of course, this example assumes you aren't also a 13 year old girl which may not be ruled out by your posts.

;) Cheers
 
ACamp1900

ACamp1900

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Veritate Duce Progredi said:
Quite the arrogance from such a little mind. Absolutely size should be taken into account, as should gender. You believe a 13 year old girl throws a punch at you, you should retaliate? Of course, this example assumes you aren't also a 13 year old girl which may not be ruled out by your posts.

;) Cheers
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Is this hypothetical girl wearing a Trojan sweatshirt???
 
kmoose

kmoose

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GoIrish41 said:
Oh for Christ sakes Moose, stop trying to start an argument over semantics.
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I'm not the one that denied that I said what I said. Who started the argument over semantics, again?

If that was not what you meant, then I took it wrong. But you cannot deny that it surely looks like you are saying that she should not have been punched for blocking out, thereby implying that she was, in fact, hit for that reason. No one has ever argued that the blocking out justified her getting punched. All I have said is that she invited him to punch her back, when she threw the first punch.
 
D

dales5050

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Veritate Duce Progredi said:
Quite the arrogance from such a little mind. Absolutely size should be taken into account, as should gender. You believe a 13 year old girl throws a punch at you, you should retaliate? Of course, this example assumes you aren't also a 13 year old girl which may not be ruled out by your posts.

;) Cheers
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Oh the neckbeard is full with you. Don't trip on your cape...idiot.
 
kmoose

kmoose

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gkIrish said:
I'm foolish because I'm in camp C? On the scale of opinions it's pretty much the closest one to yours without agreeing with you.
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No. You are foolish because you think everyone in Camp D is misguided.
 
ACamp1900

ACamp1900

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all you hippies need an ass whoopin...
 
gkIrish

gkIrish

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kmoose said:
Are you saying that your professional opinion is that it is illegal to return a punch if someone punches you first?
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It is illegal to punch that girl the way that she was punched in this particular situation.

She could also be charged for something.
 
greyhammer90

greyhammer90

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kmoose said:
It is illegal because of the force of the punch, because she has ovaries, or......... ?
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Because it was not a proportional response to the inciting punch, which has been stated at least 6 times on this thread so far. You have a right to respond with proportional force if you're under a reasonable belief that you're under threat of bodily injury. Even if he can show that he was under reasonable belief that he was under threat, which would be difficult since he was physically controlling the entire situation, he can't show that he used proportional force to free himself from that threat.
 
kmoose

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greyhammer90 said:
Because it was not a proportional response to the inciting punch, which has been stated at least 6 times on this thread so far. You have a right to respond with proportional force if you're under a reasonable belief that you're under threat of bodily injury. Even if he can show that he was under reasonable belief that he was under threat, which would be difficult since he was physically controlling the entire situation, he can't show that he used proportional force to free himself from that threat.
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A punch in response to a punch is not proportional? From what I have read, proportionality refers mostly to lethal vs. non-lethal force, or as I mentioned before, hitting someone on the head with a hammer because they punched you. How can you legislate and legally hold someone responsible for the force of the instigating punch vs. the force of the retaliatory punch? Manny Pacquiao is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than Jeremy Shockey, but I guarantee you that Manny hits harder than Jeremy. Jackie Chan is 5'9" and 190 lbs........ so a 6'2",250 lb guy has to pull his punches if they fight, or face being prosecuted?
 
gkIrish

gkIrish

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kmoose said:
A punch in response to a punch is not proportional? From what I have read, proportionality refers mostly to lethal vs. non-lethal force, or as I mentioned before, hitting someone on the head with a hammer because they punched you. How can you legislate and legally hold someone responsible for the force of the instigating punch vs. the force of the retaliatory punch? Manny Pacquiao is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than Jeremy Shockey, but I guarantee you that Manny hits harder than Jeremy. Jackie Chan is 5'9" and 190 lbs........ so a 6'2",250 lb guy has to pull his punches if they fight, or face being prosecuted?
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Hypothetically let's say someone's wife kicks him in the ribs twice and in the head twice. Husband gets up, throws her to the ground, and kicks her in the ribs twice, and head twice. Woman dies. Do you think he would be convicted of murder or would this be self defense?
 
kmoose

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gkIrish said:
Hypothetically let's say someone's wife kicks him in the ribs twice and in the head twice. Husband gets up, throws her to the ground, and kicks her in the ribs twice, and head twice. Woman dies. Do you think he would be convicted of murder or would this be self defense?
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How about you answer my question first, instead of trying to deflect?
 
gkIrish

gkIrish

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kmoose said:
How about you answer my question first, instead of trying to deflect?
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Your question has been answer a thousand times already. I'm trying to give you a different hypothetical to help you understand why he isn't allowed to wind up and punch her.

If a woman punches me with 100% of her power that doesn't give me the right to use 100% of my power to punch her back.
 
greyhammer90

greyhammer90

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kmoose said:
A punch in response to a punch is not proportional? From what I have read, proportionality refers mostly to lethal vs. non-lethal force, or as I mentioned before, hitting someone on the head with a hammer because they punched you. How can you legislate and legally hold someone responsible for the force of the instigating punch vs. the force of the retaliatory punch? Manny Pacquiao is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than Jeremy Shockey, but I guarantee you that Manny hits harder than Jeremy. Jackie Chan is 5'9" and 190 lbs........ so a 6'2",250 lb guy has to pull his punches if they fight, or face being prosecuted?
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It's not a high standard, it's merely reasonableness under the circumstances. All the QB here needs to do is show that he reasonably believed that punching her under this circumstance was reasonably necessary to prevent his bodily injury.

I would say, almost without a doubt, that he would fail that test in court. Like I said, his size, weight, strength etc., as well as his grabbing of her arms shows that he physically controls the entire altercation, her punch was likely illegal, but unlikely to continue with more punches and unlikely to harm him, he pauses for a second after the punch and considers the situation, decides to punch her in retaliation, rears back and hits her. That's not self-defense. That's illegal retribution for a (probably) illegal assault. Like I said earlier, the legal thing to do would have been to have her thrown out of the bar or call the cops, and if she actually DID somehow injure him (with a ring or something) to sue her for battery.
 
dshans

dshans

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ACamp1900 said:
all you hippies need an ass whoopin...
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Hey, hey! What's with all the aggressive negative vibes, man?

I've never laid a hand on a female. Well except maybe one (or all three) of my sisters when they would gang up on me when I was 10 [1962].

I haven't laid a hand on a male since defending a younger neighborhood kid from a bully when I was in 7th grade.

Why do people always want to kick hippies asses? This hurts me to the quick ...

PEACE
 
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